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    Aug 15, 2007 8:23:19 PM

    GnilM
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    Gnil
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    In the ditch with GT3

    Quite an embarrassing post for me...

    I took my brother's brand new yellow GT3 for a drive.
    I ended up driving with a Yamaha R1 on my tail and started to push in the tight corners.
    When exiting an S , I lost the back of the car , pushed more on the throttle, the car started to slide the other way, I steered the other way just to have the car skid again, by then I new I would loose the car...so I ended up sliding side ways in the ditch.
    A very stupid drive from me
    The car is not too damaged. I hit a pol on the side of the car, so the lower part of the car behind the front wheel is quite damaged , the side airbag went off, and a rim is also slightly damaged.
    I hope the chassis is not hurt ( my main concern).
    I guess I was lucky, could of been much worst. I drove the GT3 like my C4S, I putt full throttle when coming out of the sharp corner, I can do that with my C4S -20mm, but obviously not with the Gt3

    So stupid of me , in every way !!!!

    Aug 15, 2007 8:48:52 PM

    throt
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    Reply to: GnilM

    Re: In the ditch with GT3

    Showed its raw edge there then ..How did your bro take it??..

    Glad no ones hurt though ,, all the best with the repair...

    Aug 15, 2007 8:59:13 PM

    SrfCity
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    SrfCity
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    Reply to: throt

    Re: In the ditch with GT3

    Bummer. It takes guts to even admit it. Any pics?

    Aug 15, 2007 9:26:59 PM

    Grant
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    Grant
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    Reply to: GnilM

    Re: In the ditch with GT3

    Quote:
    Gnil said:I drove the GT3 like my C4S, I putt full throttle when coming out of the sharp corner, I can do that with my C4S -20mm, but obviously not with the Gt3


    Sorry to hear that! Maybe the other difference that you were used to with the C4S was PSM, since GT3 has only TC?

    Aug 15, 2007 10:35:59 PM

    Heist
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    Heist
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    Reply to: Grant

    Re: In the ditch with GT3

    Who remembers "Fast Times At Ridgemount High"
    .. my brother's going to kill me.
    .. I hope your brother isn't Forest Whitaker and has a H.S. football game next week. He's going to kill the opposition.

    ...sorry for your accident. Lesson learned. Think about rally drivers; with AWD cars the way you correct a rear slide is to apply more power and get the front diff to lock-uup so the front wheels dig in and pull you out.

    With RWD, you use opposite lock steering, judicious throttle balancing, and PRAYER ... lots and lots of prayer.

    Aug 15, 2007 11:18:09 PM

    Ferdie
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    Reply to: GnilM

    Re: In the ditch with GT3

    Very sorry to hear.

    Aug 15, 2007 11:48:55 PM

    Dan L
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    Loc: Santa Barbara, CA , United States
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    Reply to: Ferdie

    Re: In the ditch with GT3

    It's best to hear that YOU are alright. Cars can always be fixed quiet easily,--people not nearly so.

    Dan

    Aug 16, 2007 12:44:02 AM

    mp
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    Reply to: GnilM

    Re: In the ditch with GT3

    2wdr vs 4wdr??

    The important thing is that you are O.K. Cars can be repaired.

    Aug 16, 2007 3:38:57 AM

    Silver Bullet
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    Reply to: mp

    Re: In the ditch with GT3

    Quote:
    mp said:
    2wdr vs 4wdr??

    The important thing is that you are O.K. Cars can be repaired.



    GT3=RWD
    C4S=AWD

    Having said that, I suspect the major issue was lack of PSM rather than lack of torque on the front wheels.

    Gnil describes oversteer during a high throttle situation. This is commonly called "power oversteer" and occurs because the rear wheels spin and lose traction so that their slip angle is greater than the front wheels.

    Correcting oversteer at high speeds is very tricky. The natural tendancy to countersteer is helpful, but we are all too often unprepared for what comes next: oversteer in the opposite direction. Ideally, the initial countersteer manouver should stop as the oversteer corrects and you should immediately go to neutral steering and in fact be prepared to go a litle the other way if you overcorrected or were too slow going to neutral. Unfortunately, these things happen in fractions of a second, and if you don't have a lot of experience with this situation, you just can't save it.

    A GT3 must be highly respected. On the track, I know of at least 2 situations where PSM saved my ass. If I had a GT3 , I might have lost the car, or worse.

    I would LOVE to have a GT3, but to be honest, I'm a little scared of them. I wish that PASM was better (so that my 997S had a more GT3 like suspension)or that the GT3 had PSM (that could of course be completely disengaged).

    Gnil - glad you're ok. Sorry to hear about it, but these things happen, and we learn. We can't learn without making mistakes in fact. While it's hard to appreciate now, in the long run, you'll be better for it.

    Aug 16, 2007 4:06:42 AM

    ADias
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    Reply to: Silver Bullet

    Re: In the ditch with GT3

    Re the OP, I'm glad no one was hurt. The following is in no way to chastise the OP - just my thoughts on these kinds of issues.

    I'm also convinced that it was the lack of a proper stability management intervention. I drive a C4 and know how stable it is, but I'm told (Carlos) that the new 997 C2 is as planted as his (mine) 996 C4. So I don't think it was the lack of 4WD at least if it was dry.

    I used to do power slides in dirt roads in Europe many years ago. Ah fun times! But that was with far less powerful cars where I had time to go through the motions. The previous poster is right on the money - counter-steer and correct very smoothly and do not over do it. Tough to do with today's cars - too much power, too fast. I hear a lot of bravado regarding these adventures, but doubt many are up to them. It takes more than a few weekend DEs to master that.

    Besides, that was then and now we have better tools - PSM is it. Thanks for PSM on all the other cars. Mine is never off, as I am not better than the computer, and as i said, I used to do it, but on slow-motion by today's standards.

    Aug 16, 2007 5:04:44 AM

    GnilM
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    Gnil
    Loc: VD, Switzerland , Switzerland
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    Reply to: ADias

    Re: In the ditch with GT3

    My description of the incident is not accurate.
    When I lost the back, I first countersteered and then only put some more throttle ( so used to drive my AWD)... to loose the back the other side, countersteered again, stabilised the throttle to loose the back again on the other side.

    My first counter steer was too strong, I guess the second one too, specially with the very precise and direct steering of the GT3, just a little countersteer would of been enough and then keeping the steering wheel straight, but..... like some said, all that happened in a fraction of seconds with a car I have driven about one hour.
    A good lesson for me.
    Of course PSM would of saved me, but if I reach the point where PSM kicks in....I made a mistake.
    I feel that the AWD setting is easier to handle when coming out of corners. The front will help the back when needed. With RWD one needs to be much more smooth and progressive ( which I did not do )
    Man I am angry at myself !!!!
    My Bro is on holidays, told him about it, not happy, but understands and glad I am ok...

    Aug 16, 2007 5:50:51 AM

    Joost
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    Reply to: GnilM

    Re: In the ditch with GT3

    Too bad Gnil! Glad to hear you're ok. Hope the car can be repaired. Did the biker stop to help you? Must have been a weird sight for him, to see the car in front of him starting to fishtail...
    -Joost-

    Aug 16, 2007 6:11:36 AM

    GnilM
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    Gnil
    Loc: VD, Switzerland , Switzerland
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    Reply to: Joost

    Re: In the ditch with GT3

    Quote:
    Joost said:
    Too bad Gnil! Glad to hear you're ok. Hope the car can be repaired. Did the biker stop to help you? Must have been a weird sight for him, to see the car in front of him starting to fishtail...
    -Joost-



    He stoped... I told him everything was fine..he left quickly

    Aug 16, 2007 6:12:04 AM

    GnilM
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    Gnil
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    Reply to: GnilM

    Re: In the ditch with GT3

    pic

    Aug 16, 2007 6:12:33 AM

    GnilM
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    Gnil
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    Reply to: GnilM

    Re: In the ditch with GT3

    Aug 16, 2007 6:33:13 AM

    throt
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    Reply to: GnilM

    Re: In the ditch with GT3

    Quote:
    Gnil said:
    My Bro is on holidays, told him about it, not happy, but understands and glad I am ok...



    You never did like spending christmas with him anyway , buddy...

    Aug 16, 2007 7:29:19 AM

    beltar
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    beltar
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    Reply to: throt

    Re: In the ditch with GT3

    I liked the pictures ,i saw last week of this car more...
    I daren't dream to have to tell this to MY brother...

    Aug 16, 2007 8:07:54 AM

    Porker
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    Reply to: beltar

    Re: In the ditch with GT3

    Jeeezzz! Gnil, glad you're alright.

    Again it shows that the best option to get with a GT3 is a driving training, WITH the GT3.. If it can happen to you, you know Porsches, you've attented Scuderia Hanseat, ... I'm afraid it can happen to lots of owners.

    I wouldn't want to be the guy that has to make the phonecall though "hi bro, remember that yellow GT3 you were so fond of, the ditch was fond of it too"
    No, I'm glad he took it alright, let it be a lesson for him too..

    Grtz and take care

    Aug 16, 2007 8:26:02 AM

    throt
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    Reply to: beltar

    Re: In the ditch with GT3

    Quote:
    beltar said:
    I liked the pictures ,i saw last week of this car more...




    Oh , you mean that is Crams GT3 ??...Did not realise that . I remember the pics . It will be back like that in no time though , just a pita situation but it happens...

    Aug 16, 2007 9:26:55 AM

    Porsche-Jeck
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    Reply to: GnilM

    Re: In the ditch with GT3

    Hey Gnil, I feel very sorry for you and your bro
    I guess all of us overcook a corner now and then, but with a beast like the GT3 it's a different story....
    I'll keep my fingers crossed that the chassis will be o.k.
    Cheer up, bud - finally nobody has been hurt

    Aug 16, 2007 12:59:11 PM

    amazon
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    amazon
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    Reply to: Porsche-Jeck

    Re: In the ditch with GT3

    ouach. Sorry gnil

    I had no idea the owner of the yellow GT3 is your brother.

    Finger crossed for the chassi but it looks expensive. Front quarter panel, door, and what you can't see.

    Aug 16, 2007 1:03:53 PM

    bstew
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    Reply to: ADias

    Re: In the ditch with GT3

    Ouch. Glad you are OK.

    Aug 16, 2007 1:42:02 PM

    chuckd
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    Reply to: bstew

    Re: In the ditch with GT3

    Sorry to hear about your incident and its a good thing you can walk away from it. All that being said, I love PSM!

    I power out of corners all the time with the occasional oversteer, but my C2S always snaps back into place with little correction (probably due to PSM).

    I could've easily made the same mistake if it was me driving the GT3. Time for me to take thos Driver's Ed courses!

    Thanks for sharing.

    Aug 16, 2007 2:29:46 PM

    AUM
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    Reply to: chuckd

    Re: In the ditch with GT3

    Non PSM cars have to be treated with respect until you learn their limits without exceeding them. Most drivers are probably faster in PSM equipped cars as the saftey net allows the limits of traction to be explored with more confidence.

    Roll on the GT2.

    Aug 16, 2007 3:16:18 PM

    GnilM
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    Gnil
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    Reply to: AUM

    Re: In the ditch with GT3

    Thanks for all the support.
    Just spoken again to my brother....he's not happy But he's in Shangai I ' m still safe a few days
    The car will be fixed...and it will ne expensive
    Many little mistakes added on each other to end up in a BIG mistake. I learned it the hard way.
    The GT3 has to be respected...

    Aug 16, 2007 4:05:42 PM

    Silver Bullet
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    Reply to: GnilM

    Re: In the ditch with GT3

    My bet is that the damage is all cosmetic.

    Aug 16, 2007 5:33:27 PM

    Atzporsche
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    Reply to: Silver Bullet

    Re: In the ditch with GT3

    sorry to hear that!

    glad you're okey though. I think the damage is only comsmetic!
    but it seems like you hit something above the front tires??!?! if thats a dent then a new front fender part will up your repair bill!!

    Aug 16, 2007 7:48:04 PM

    Flying_Dutchman
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    Reply to: Atzporsche

    Re: In the ditch with GT3

    S..t! Sorry to hear that Gnil. Good you came out uninjured.
    In material terms that's realy anyone's nightmare.
    Brand new and not yours...

    I love the GT3 and GT2 models yet recognize that with all these HP's and Nm in the back it's good to have the PSM and AWD guardian angels, like in your C4S and my TT.

    Keep the faith!

    Aug 16, 2007 8:00:46 PM

    Scotty A
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    Reply to: Flying_Dutchman

    Re: In the ditch with GT3

    It always hurts to damage our cars, since we like them so much and love the appearence. And so I emphathize with your feelings. Years ago I managed to rip the undercarraige of a 1-month old car (it was a Plymouth Valient, but it was brand new, and the best I could afford, and the first new car I had ever bought with my own money) and it was just devastating.

    It's worse, I think, when you damage someone else's object of affection - the guilt is just terrible.

    But to reiterate what everyone else had said: cars can be fixed. People are much more difficult to fix. I'm glad you're alright.

    Aug 16, 2007 8:18:09 PM

    Bon
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    Reply to: Scotty A

    Re: In the ditch with GT3

    glad you're ok gnil. =/
    next time, just drive more carefully
     
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