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    F-1 style, paddle-shift transmission timeline

    What's the latest on when P is expected to intro an F-1 style transmission option? I've seen couple of articles on CGT where P officials allegedly admit that they just couldn't get F-1 type transmission fully ready for CGT without unduly delaying its intro.....implying an F-1 option isn't too far away. F, Lambo and BMW have apparently shown that many buyers (though obviously not hard-core, old-school enthusiasts) prefer F1 option.

    Re: F-1 style, paddle-shift transmission timeline

    The question is: what are the REAL advantages of such a transmission? I don't see much.

    Re: F-1 style, paddle-shift transmission timeline

    No real advantage in addition to tiptronic and manual, but as a replacement to tiptronic, yes, that would be better I think.
    Something similar to the double clutch stuff that Audi has introduced recently would be nice.
    Personally, I drive a Maser Cambiocorsa recently and did not like the F1 paddles very much, too much delay between the time you press the paddle and the time when the car actually upshifts or downshifts, but it's quite fun, for a while only.
    I prefer the play with my feet and my right hand...

    Re: F-1 style, paddle-shift transmission timeline

    i thought the porsche double clutch system is going to be released in a year or two? which would replace tiptronic and possibly post acceleration times quicker than manuals.

    Re: F-1 style, paddle-shift transmission timeline

    Quote:
    RC said:
    The question is: what are the REAL advantages of such a transmission? I don't see much.



    As I had indicated, I realize purists often hate F1 transmissions (they also often despise convertibles, SUVs, A/C, Tiptronic, etc. etc.). However, in some mkts like NYC and SF, a P may function as both a daily driver, as well as the wkend toy. On SF's steep hills and in the NYC region's suffocating traffic, many find a traditional manual unacceptably annoying. However, a Tiptronic w/buttons on the steering wheel is often less ergonomic than a paddle-shift setup, esp. for wkend driving on sports car-friendly roads. Thus, an F1-style setup, as opposed to Tiptronic, may allow a broader buyer base to opt for P cars. So, an F1 transmission may be a smart marketing move for P.....capturing some buyers who will opt for M3/M5 SMG instead.....or an F car or DB9.

    Re: F-1 style, paddle-shift transmission timeline

    i really hope it will be available during 2nd year 997 production.

    Re: F-1 style, paddle-shift transmission timeline

    Quote:
    Fanch said:

    I prefer the play with my right hand...




    Don't we all

    Just kiddin!

    Re: F-1 style, paddle-shift transmission timeline

    Quote:
    Luke R said:
    i thought the porsche double clutch system is going to be released in a year or two? which would replace tiptronic and possibly post acceleration times quicker than manuals.



    Thats one of the advantages of the double-clutch. There are many advantages over a manual:
    - Faster accel times than a manual,
    - no added weight over a manual (unlike Tiptronic),
    - no power robbing in the shifting like a manual (unlike Tip),
    - much faster shifting than a manual (10x faster than the fastest sequential available now, the SMG-II),
    - no interruption of power during shifting unlike a manual or Tip or single-clutch sequential,
    - more concentration available for steering/throtle/braking so driver usually perfroms better too.

    However all this doesn not compensate IMO the loss of involvement and pleasure in the driving expeience that you derive from a manual, and you have to ask yourself, isn't that what sportcars are about really?

    Re: F-1 style, paddle-shift transmission timeline

    Quote:
    carlos fromspain said:
    However all this doesn not compensate IMO the loss of involvement and pleasure in the driving expeience that you derive from a manual, and you have to ask yourself, isn't that what sportcars are about really?



    Hi Carlos,

    I generally agree with what you say. But, ... I have an opportunity to drive a 996TT Tip vs. a 996TT 6-speed, back-to-back, on a daily basis. If I might add a little bit of my own perspective, ...

    The Turbo-Tip absolutely has its charms. I find the Tip to be be smoother in delivering power when I want it for unexpected (opportunistic) traffic maneuvers. Unless I am completely perfect in my clutch/throttle application and timing, I cannot duplicate the Tip's power delivery. It is only after comparing the two cars side-by-side, day-after-day that I have come to this observation.

    One of the things that keeps the Turbo 6-speed from being clearly superior to the Tip is the presence of quite a bit of rotational inertia in the engine and/or drive train of the Turbo power plant. This keeps one from efficiently double-clutch down-shifting in an effortless manner.

    It's actually a little bit frustrating to have to anticipate the throttle depression to make the revs rise to the appropriate rpm in a short enough time to make the next downshift. I tend to be a little bit jerky some portion of the times when I try to down-shift cleanly using this method. The thumb buttons on the steering wheel of the Tiptroinc are very slow to respond, but they seem no worse than waiting for the engine rpm to rise when trying to double-clutch down-shift the 6-speed

    So, ... I welcome the coming of DSG, or whatever it will be called, because I think it will respond so much more instantaneously than the current Turbo engine/flywheel/transmission does.

    This is also why I fervently anticipate the Carrera GT with its "no-inertia" engine.

    Cheers,

    Re: F-1 style, paddle-shift transmission timeline

    Quote:
    W8MM said:
    Quote:
    carlos fromspain said:
    However all this doesn not compensate IMO the loss of involvement and pleasure in the driving expeience that you derive from a manual, and you have to ask yourself, isn't that what sportcars are about really?



    Hi Carlos,

    I generally agree with what you say. But, ... I have an opportunity to drive a 996TT Tip vs. a 996TT 6-speed, back-to-back, on a daily basis. If I might add a little bit of my own perspective, ...

    The Turbo-Tip absolutely has its charms. I find the Tip to be be smoother in delivering power when I want it for unexpected (opportunistic) traffic maneuvers. Unless I am completely perfect in my clutch/throttle application and timing, I cannot duplicate the Tip's power delivery. It is only after comparing the two cars side-by-side, day-after-day that I have come to this observation.

    One of the things that keeps the Turbo 6-speed from being clearly superior to the Tip is the presence of quite a bit of rotational inertia in the engine and/or drive train of the Turbo power plant. This keeps one from efficiently double-clutch down-shifting in an effortless manner.

    It's actually a little bit frustrating to have to anticipate the throttle depression to make the revs rise to the appropriate rpm in a short enough time to make the next downshift. I tend to be a little bit jerky some portion of the times when I try to down-shift cleanly using this method. The thumb buttons on the steering wheel of the Tiptroinc are very slow to respond, but they seem no worse than waiting for the engine rpm to rise when trying to double-clutch down-shift the 6-speed

    So, ... I welcome the coming of DSG, or whatever it will be called, because I think it will respond so much more instantaneously than the current Turbo engine/flywheel/transmission does.

    This is also why I fervently anticipate the Carrera GT with its "no-inertia" engine.

    Cheers,



    Since I own both; tiptronic, and F1 I can say it is like night and day in performance, response and driving pleasure. I found the triptonic difficult to use with the button on the steering wheel and the shift and engine revs no different than an automatic.

    The F1 is exactly like a manual except you do not use a clutch. Shifting with the paddles up and down is smooth, fast and fun. If you were driving behind me you would swear that I had a six speed.

    Finally all test on the track have demonstrated that with the sequential gearbox the driver is a better performer and produces the fastest times. I would think based on the comments on this board, that fact alone would be enough for them to prefer the F1 type tranny.

    As I have written before, once Porsche introduces the F1 type tranny everyone here will be on board.

    Re: F-1 style, paddle-shift transmission timeline

    Mike,
    It seems to me that the engine in the 996TT is better suited to tiptronic than perhaps any other in the Porsche lineup today. Fair characterization? If made aggressive enough, Porsche would be able to seel a DSG system to even GT2/3 owners.

    What I find interesting about some of these "sequential" gearboxes is that they are only so in interface. Very few sequential gearboxes have been offered for the road, and rightly so.

    Nick
    With SMG in the M3, heel-toe is not truely dead, nor is it with tiptronic-like transmissions. What's the case with Ferrari F1? Aston reps still claim their version is better (same maker, different software). That might have been true two or three years ago, but they have since abandoned the system all together. It might make its way back into the AMV8, but I doubt it.

    Re: F-1 style, paddle-shift transmission timeline

    Quote:
    Justin said:
    Mike,
    It seems to me that the engine in the 996TT is better suited to tiptronic than perhaps any other in the Porsche lineup today. Fair characterization? If made aggressive enough, Porsche would be able to seel a DSG system to even GT2/3 owners.

    What I find interesting about some of these "sequential" gearboxes is that they are only so in interface. Very few sequential gearboxes have been offered for the road, and rightly so.

    Nick
    With SMG in the M3, heel-toe is not truely dead, nor is it with tiptronic-like transmissions. What's the case with Ferrari F1? Aston reps still claim their version is better (same maker, different software). That might have been true two or three years ago, but they have since abandoned the system all together. It might make its way back into the AMV8, but I doubt it.



    No need for H/T because the computer matches the revs. and it is perfect every time. Keep in mind the the original F1 did have problems and my version is a 2004. I understand they have made vast improvements on the software.

    Re: F-1 style, paddle-shift transmission timeline

    Mike,

    Thanks for the insights. Points well taken

    Re: F-1 style, paddle-shift transmission timeline

    I personally would be faster on a racetrack or autocross with either paddle shifters or a sequential shifter, and that is why I would like the availability of either. I do not want to have either of these replace the traditional H pattern shifter,as I understand that there are those who prefer the finesse involved in shifting one. I am not one who prefers the delicate snick of the lever across the pattern, so I would hope for the availability of the contemporary type of shift mechanism as an option.
    I tried the tiptronic, and it was one of the reasons I sold my 996 Cab within 6 months of purchasing it. For track use, I found it less useful than my 87 corvette which also had an auto, and, although I do understand the Turbo version is better, that doesn't help those of us who aren't getting a Turbo.

     
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