Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: POLL - How much power should the upcoming 997 Turbo have? - Page1

Jun 1, 2004 9:58:10 AM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59590, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002

POLL - How much power should the upcoming 997 Turbo have?

I know this is pretty early but I pledge especially 996 Turbo owners to participate in this poll.
And I have to ask one favor from you guys: I know that "the more power, the better" prinicple is a favorite of most people but try to be honest with yourselves, think rational and also try to think how much power you could really handle.
Otherwise this poll doesn't make much sense. Thanks!

Next
Threads

Jun 1, 2004 1:16:17 PM

WBH: Expert; Loc: CA; Posts: 1963, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 2, 2004; Reply to: RC

Re: POLL - How much power should the upcoming 997 Turbo have?

Per my observation, in major markets like SF, LA and Greenwich, 996TT was very popular as a commuter/GT car. Since intro of SL55, SL55 has seemingly become the commuter car of choice (w/360 as most popular wkend toy....light, tossable and Spyder available). Given volumes of 997TT PCNA wants to move, SL55/65 seems like most important, high-volume real-world competitor. Hopefully, PAG chooses to spend R&D on lowering 997TT's weight (by approx 400lbs) in conjunction w/530 (or so) hp...that would make for a phenomenal and differentiated competitor to SL55/65, where 997TT's initial lack of Cab puts it at disadvantage to SL55/65, esp in the convertible-obsessed, sunny LA and SF regions.

Next
Threads

Jun 1, 2004 1:56:39 PM

Dock (Atlanta): Pilot; Loc: Atlanta, Georgia; Posts: 386, Gallery; Registered on: May 1, 2002; Reply to: RC

997 Turbo

There are SO many people (in the U.S., maybe in Europe) who really want bragging rights based on horsepower. In conversations around the office or at social gatherings, being able to say "My car has XXX horsepower" is the holy grail, as long as the XXX number is bigger than anyone elses number. How much torque the car has, or how the car actually drives are on the back burner. One of the funny things about "horsepower bragging rights" is that the majority of people don't take the time to see where this power is made. Many times the big number is only for a brief period high in the rpm range. A lot of good that does. It's power under the curve that's really important, but that aspect is hard to brag about.

I also think Porsche has to be concerned with where the 99X Turbo will plug into their line-up. I don't think Porsche wants the Turbo at or above GT2 performance, and they have to be concerned with the Carrera GT's performance being flirted with.

As for weight, I personally don't want Porsche spending too much time trying to reduce the Turbo's weight by 200-400 pounds. I would like to see active handling, sharper steering (different ratios in the rack and pinion), different gearing, and more torque and horsepower (in that order for the power increase).

With X73 on my Turbo, and if I add EVO Stage 2, my car would be somewhere over 500 hp and 500 lb-ft with great handling. What is it that I personally like about the 500/500? The longitudinal g it produces under acceleration. I don't need to go 200 mph. The 99X Turbo could exceed the Stage 2's g producing capability with a smaller power increase plus better gearing.

What do I think Porsche will do in terms of power on the next Turbo? Porbably 500 or less.

Next
Threads

Jun 1, 2004 2:48:06 PM

Bilal: Expert; Loc: Manchester, UK; Posts: 1533, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 20, 2003; Reply to: Dock (Atlanta)

Re: 997 Turbo

Nice to see a Mercedes being a competitor to a 911 Turbo

I agree the Turbo's performance has to be differentiated by the GT2 and CGT to make those cars worth their money. The recent article in UK car mag said the CGT's biggest competitors were in house top of the range 911's. If you comapre straight line performance, Turbo's and GT2's can get sub 4 second 0-60's and all are capable of doing close to 200mph. If you have 100K and 128K GBP cars matching the CGT in the straight line, well...

Plus the GT2 already is doing 11.8 from 0-124mph! About a second off the CGT's pace, now a 560bhp+ GT2...

Next
Threads

Jun 1, 2004 3:04:29 PM

WBH: Expert; Loc: CA; Posts: 1963, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 2, 2004; Reply to: Bilal

Re: 997 Turbo

Quote:
///AMG Mercedes said:
Nice to see a Mercedes being a competitor to a 911 Turbo

I agree the Turbo's performance has to be differentiated by the GT2 and CGT to make those cars worth their money. The recent article in UK car mag said the CGT's biggest competitors were in house top of the range 911's. If you comapre straight line performance, Turbo's and GT2's can get sub 4 second 0-60's and all are capable of doing close to 200mph. If you have 100K and 128K GBP cars matching the CGT in the straight line, well...

Plus the GT2 already is doing 11.8 from 0-124mph! About a second off the CGT's pace, now a 560bhp+ GT2...

Actually, kind of sad that 996TT is often now viewed as an interchangeable commuter car w/SL55. I think 996TT's porky weight and lack of charismatic/intimidating exhaust note has transformed it into a straight-line focused, high-end commuter car in some major, jaded US mkts. Many of these owners (if really into driving) often have a 360 for wkend play in the twisties.

Next
Threads

Jun 1, 2004 4:12:52 PM

Dock (Atlanta): Pilot; Loc: Atlanta, Georgia; Posts: 386, Gallery; Registered on: May 1, 2002; Reply to: WBH

Re: 997 Turbo

Quote:
Actually, kind of sad that 996TT is often now viewed as an interchangeable commuter car w/SL55.

Viewed as interchangeable by people who don't want a sports car.

Quote:
I think 996TT's porky weight and lack of charismatic/intimidating exhaust note has transformed it into a straight-line focused, high-end commuter car in some major, jaded US mkts.

I would say the Turbo's weight has little to do with the transformation. Porsche has intentionally made the Turbo more GT'ish by adding lots of fluffy options as standard, softening up it's ride/handling/exhaust note/shifter, just to make it attractive to a broader market...the jaded U.S. market you described. That market is a status driven, non-sports car group who are not intrested in a real hard edged sports cars. Their infrequently driven weekend 360's are as "poser" as it gets.

In my opinion, the Turbo should come standard with X73, the short shifter, a sharper reacting steering rack, Europipe type exhaust, and minimum GT'ish options. If someone wants to add the fluff, let them option the base car that way.

Next
Threads

Jun 1, 2004 4:22:26 PM

Scott in Houston: Newbie; Loc:; Posts: 33, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 1, 2004; Reply to: Dock (Atlanta)

Re: 997 Turbo

Quote:
In my opinion, the Turbo should come standard with X73, the short shifter, a sharper reacting steering rack, Europipe type exhaust, and minimum GT'ish options. If someone wants to add the fluff, let them option the base car that way.

AMEN!

Next
Threads

Jun 1, 2004 4:47:00 PM

WBH: Expert; Loc: CA; Posts: 1963, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 2, 2004; Reply to: Scott in Houston

Re: 997 Turbo

Quote:
Scott in Houston said:

Quote:
In my opinion, the Turbo should come standard with X73, the short shifter, a sharper reacting steering rack, Europipe type exhaust, and minimum GT'ish options. If someone wants to add the fluff, let them option the base car that way.

AMEN!

That would be a great approach to transforming the 997TT back to P's hard-core roots....perhaps a 997TTS, ala 997S, to specifically address the enthusiast buyer base? Seems to me that 360CS (aka "the poor man's Enzo") has same effect for F in targeting the enthusiasts, allowing the "poseurs" to sate themselves w/the 360Spyder.....which is arguably the car of choice for slowly cruising through The Hills of Beverly and LA's Westside, taking in the natural (and surgically enhanced) sights....

Next
Threads

Jun 1, 2004 5:47:38 PM

Dock (Atlanta): Pilot; Loc: Atlanta, Georgia; Posts: 386, Gallery; Registered on: May 1, 2002; Reply to: WBH

Re: 997 Turbo

Quote:
Seems to me that 360CS (aka "the poor man's Enzo") has same effect for F in targeting the enthusiasts, allowing the "poseurs" to sate themselves w/the 360Spyder.....

Excellent point.

Next
Threads

Jun 1, 2004 7:27:50 PM

watt: Rennteam Master; Loc: Way Back In , New Zealand; Posts: 4564, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 27, 2002; Reply to: Dock (Atlanta)

Re: 997 Turbo

if porsche maintains its reliability, one cannot compare them with any mercedes, whose quality is now abysmal. are you aware no US insurance company will offer extended warranties on AMG cars? they and MB see them as too unreliable.

and for performance owners, weight is really important, but that's why the less hefty GT2 is available... i'd still love GT2 and TT about 400# lighter

Next
Threads

Jun 1, 2004 8:01:55 PM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: watt

Re: 997 Turbo

Quote:
watt said:
are you aware no US insurance company will offer extended warranties on AMG cars? they and MB see them as too unreliable.

Next time you hear someone cussing Porsche for not wanting to pay for the mistakes of some tuner (i. e., repairing broken overstressed toys on works' warranty

), refer them to watt's post on MB's attitude to extended warranties on subsidiary AMG's cars!

Next
Threads

Jun 1, 2004 8:38:18 PM

nberry: Rennteam VIP; Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States; Posts: 13737, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: WBH

Re: 997 Turbo

Quote:
VKSF said:
Quote:
Scott in Houston said:

Quote:
In my opinion, the Turbo should come standard with X73, the short shifter, a sharper reacting steering rack, Europipe type exhaust, and minimum GT'ish options. If someone wants to add the fluff, let them option the base car that way.

AMEN!

That would be a great approach to transforming the 997TT back to P's hard-core roots....perhaps a 997TTS, ala 997S, to specifically address the enthusiast buyer base? Seems to me that 360CS (aka "the poor man's Enzo") has same effect for F in targeting the enthusiasts, allowing the "poseurs" to sate themselves w/the 360Spyder.....which is arguably the car of choice for slowly cruising through The Hills of Beverly and LA's Westside, taking in the natural (and surgically enhanced) sights....

Let me preface my remarks by indicating the TT is the best performance car for the money.

However, have you driven a 360 Spider? I have driven a 996TT several times. The difference in the two cars is considerable.. Though the TT performance barely out performs the Spider, it fails miserably in driving passion and exciteability as compared to the Spider. It is a boring car to drive. The most apt description I heard was... Ho Hum. My Mini is much more fun to drive.

I believe Dock and Scott are correct. The car need passion and not a ton of hp. Sharper steering, better exhaust and more fun to drive characteristic's. Some styling flair to distinguish it from the 997 retro look would also help.

Finally, whether we like to admit it or not, we all are poseur's.

Next
Threads

Jun 1, 2004 9:50:52 PM

Dock (Atlanta): Pilot; Loc: Atlanta, Georgia; Posts: 386, Gallery; Registered on: May 1, 2002; Reply to: watt

Re: 997 Turbo

Quote:
and for performance owners, weight is really important

I'm a performance owner, and within a resonable range weight isn't a huge issue with me. At the drag strip for instance, every 200 pounds of weight savings is worth just one tenth of a second in time. As for handling, suspension design and tires are more critical. I can honestly say that I can not tell any seat of the pants (SOTP) difference in any performance measure between one eighth of a tank of gas, and a full tank of gas. And it's not because I'm SOTP challenged.

Next
Threads

Jun 1, 2004 10:05:27 PM

Joe Weinstein: Junior; Loc:; Posts: 56, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 1, 2002; Reply to: RC

Re: POLL - How much power should the upcoming 997 Turbo have?

I want the new Porsche to have only 460 so I don't feel
bad about my current 996tt! However, if I were able to
buy a new one, I'd ask for as much power as possible.
I would want all the power improvements to be
retrofittable to 996tts...

I understand that my desires as a current 996tt owner
who wants to keep my current car, are in fact against
the motivation of the 997tt designers...

Lightness and serious handling options would be more
of a temptation to me.
Joe

Next
Threads

Jun 1, 2004 10:32:21 PM

Dock (Atlanta): Pilot; Loc: Atlanta, Georgia; Posts: 386, Gallery; Registered on: May 1, 2002; Reply to: Joe Weinstein

Re: POLL - How much power should the upcoming 997 Turbo have?

Quote:
I want the new Porsche to have only 460 so I don't feel
bad about my current 996tt!

You wouldn't feel bad if you had EVO Stage 2.

I think with the 996 Turbo's engine mechanicals, it's not a problem at all pushing 500-550 Hp through a chip and exhaust. With X73 and that kind of power, it would in my opinion match or exceed the next Turbo in terms of street and occasional track driving ability. The next Turbo's possible active suspension design might make it faster on the track, but I think until I see how it actually feels in terms of driver involvement, the jury will be out for me on this design feature.

Next
Threads

Jun 2, 2004 12:20:49 AM

lev: Pilot; Loc: Canada, Toronto; Posts: 397, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 15, 2004; Reply to: nberry

Re: 997 Turbo

Nberry,

May be you were checking the cars impression on girls when you were comparing 996TT and Spider. I take Impreza STI on Spider every given day, dont even compare TT with Spider...You made me laugh :-)

The truth is that 40 horse power minus or plus is not important really until you considered to be a decent racing driver with some experience...and only then it will matter on the track during...the competition.

Fun is always there, and I mean with Porsche. Just look at latest Lotus - best selling sport car in Europe. I have many video clips when this car beats Ferrari F50! and GT2 on the track, why because of the driver, and the so called horse power really dont help.

So how about talking about the next Turbo and try to discuss points that will make us better drivers and will allow Porsche to challenge us more :-), yes weight, suspension, handling, transmission those are the things, folks , that are really matter and more than hp.

Porsche challenges you - if you take the right combo - for example 996 Turbo, lower suspension, sport shifter, sport exhaust with some extra power, you really dont need X50s and 70s to experience the challenge and the trill of driving and learning...GT2 and Turbo provide this fun of challenge much more than "normal" Porsche. This is what it is about - FUN of driving and learning while being challenged by car with character.
SL55? Will never have a character, its a nice Boeing 747 but we all here want to fly F16 :-)

Nberry I am sure that F1 automatic transmission on your spider, challenges you every day...please dont tell us that Schumacher really enjoys it :-)

Next
Threads

Jun 2, 2004 2:17:50 PM

nberry: Rennteam VIP; Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States; Posts: 13737, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: lev

Re: 997 Turbo

Quote:
lev said:
Nberry,

Nberry I am sure that F1 automatic transmission on your spider, challenges you every day...please dont tell us that Schumacher really enjoys it :-)

I turned my 2001 Spider in because it was 6 speed and I wanted an F1 transmission. My 996 was 6 speed. The difference in performance and fun is so much in favor of the F1 that you cannot compared them.

The F1 is a blast to drive because you focus on driving and never miss a revv in down shift. I know most on this board will claim 6 speeed is for the real driver at least until Porsche introduces its own rendition of the F1. Then the mantra will be it is the only way to go.

Next
Threads

Jun 2, 2004 2:28:15 PM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21152, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: nberry

Re: 997 Turbo

Quote:
nberry said:
I turned my 2001 Spider in because it was 6 speed and I wanted an F1 transmission. My 996 was 6 speed. The difference in performance and fun is so much in favor of the F1 that you cannot compared them.

Faster probably, easier and more confortable absolutely, but if you have more "fun" with an auto than a manual then go out and get a Playstation cause you will have even more fun with that until cars steer by themselves too

Autos, specially sequentials definately have their advantages, but "fun" is definately not one of them IMO

Next
Threads

Jun 2, 2004 3:25:54 PM

lev: Pilot; Loc: Canada, Toronto; Posts: 397, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 15, 2004; Reply to: nberry

Re: 997 Turbo

"The F1 is a blast to drive because you focus on driving and never miss a revv in down shift. I know most on this board will claim 6 speeed is for the real driver at least until Porsche introduces its own rendition of the F1. Then the mantra will be it is the only way to go. "

You got to be dreaming :-)

There is no AI exists nether in car or software industry (trust me I am working in software industry) and so in any other industry. That means - your (human) selection of the gear will always and now come the funny part - always if you are a good driver of course :-), so it will be better in that case than automatic trans, F1, F2 or and letter of alphabet so to speak. when I say better than means timing wise and situation on the road/track wise too.

Now, are you a good driver, nberry? :-)

Next
Threads

Jun 2, 2004 6:34:57 PM

ignacio: Junior; Loc: annapolis,maryland,usa , United States; Posts: 132, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 30, 2002; Reply to: Dock (Atlanta)

Re: 997 Turbo

I would say the Turbo's weight has little to do with the transformation. Porsche has intentionally made the Turbo more GT'ish by adding lots of fluffy options as standard, softening up it's ride/handling/exhaust note/shifter, just to make it attractive to a broader market...the jaded U.S. market you described. That market is a status driven, non-sports car group who are not intrested in a real hard edged sports cars. Their infrequently driven weekend 360's are as "poser" as it gets.

In my opinion, the Turbo should come standard with X73, the short shifter, a sharper reacting steering rack, Europipe type exhaust, and minimum GT'ish options. If someone wants to add the fluff, let them option the base car that way.

i respectfully disagree. the 996 turbo is an everyday, reliable supercar. i love it!

ferraris are meant to be different--i like them too! i have an f420/430 on order. i hope this new model is less shop intensive. it is absurd to me that ferrari is still using timing belts instead of chains!

Next
Threads

Jun 2, 2004 6:54:55 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12586, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: 997 Turbo

Quote:
carlos fromspain said:
Quote:
nberry said:
I turned my 2001 Spider in because it was 6 speed and I wanted an F1 transmission. My 996 was 6 speed. The difference in performance and fun is so much in favor of the F1 that you cannot compared them.

Faster probably, easier and more confortable absolutely, but if you have more "fun" with an auto than a manual then go out and get a Playstation cause you will have even more fun with that until cars steer by themselves too
Autos, specially sequentials definately have their advantages, but "fun" is definately not one of them IMO

I totally agree, Carlos

Next
Threads

Jun 2, 2004 8:28:32 PM

Dock (Atlanta): Pilot; Loc: Atlanta, Georgia; Posts: 386, Gallery; Registered on: May 1, 2002; Reply to: ignacio

Re: 997 Turbo

Quote:
the 996 turbo is an everyday, reliable supercar

ignacio - I never said the Turbo isn't an everday, reliable supercar. My opinion it's that it's just too "soft", and has too many standard fluff options.

Next
Threads

Jun 2, 2004 9:02:05 PM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: Dock (Atlanta)

Re: 997 Turbo

Quote:
Dock (Atlanta) said:
As for weight, I personally don't want Porsche spending too much time trying to reduce the Turbo's weight by 200-400 pounds. I would like to see active handling, sharper steering (different ratios in the rack and pinion), different gearing, and more torque and horsepower (in that order for the power increase).

Well, if only Porsche could find some way of reducing weight by 200-400 lbs, you'd have more agile handling, sharper steering, quicker acceleration and better brake performance without any increase in power and torque outputs! If only .......

And considering the tt's phenomenol, effortless torque, I think you'd find that "better gearing", presumeably meaning a shorter final drive ratio, would just mean that time saved in each gear would be lost by having to make more shifts to arrive at a given target speed.

Next
Threads

Jun 2, 2004 10:26:37 PM

fastcars: Junior; Loc: MI; Posts: 94, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 25, 2004; Reply to: fritz

Re: 997 Turbo

a minimum of 500hp if it wants to comete hp wise with the big guns, otherwise it will fall short and lambo/ferrari will move away from the porsche in performance. id wait for the 998 TT i really think it will blow everyone and everything away!

Next
Threads

Jun 2, 2004 11:11:10 PM

WBH: Expert; Loc: CA; Posts: 1963, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 2, 2004; Reply to: fastcars

Re: 997 Turbo

Not sure if Porsche needs to be obsessively hp-focused (within reason) for 997TT, as long as overall performance parameters are comparable to F360 (and its successor). After all, 360CS only has 425hp and deminimus torque...but it's a phenomenal performer....the poor man's Enzo; those w/means to buy 360CS could easily have opted for higher hp, higher torque Gallardo or 996TT X-50....and many 360CS owners have/had two of these or all 3 cars, as each offers a distinct driving experience. In fact, I would argue that Ferrari and, to lesser extent, Porsche have powerful enough brands and mystique that they can leave pure hp wars to lesser brands...and focus on overall driving experience.

Next
Threads

Jun 3, 2004 2:46:09 AM

Dock (Atlanta): Pilot; Loc: Atlanta, Georgia; Posts: 386, Gallery; Registered on: May 1, 2002; Reply to: fritz

Re: 997 Turbo

Quote:
Well, if only Porsche could find some way of reducing weight by 200-400 lbs, you'd have more agile handling, sharper steering, quicker acceleration and better brake performance

I can't tell any difference in any performance area (via my seat of the pants) between when I have a full tank of gas and my wife with me, versus an eighth of a tank and no passenger with me. Sharper steering is a function of the steering rack ratios and the suspension. During street driving I can't tell the difference between 110 feet and 120 feet in a stop from 60-70 mph. Acceleration runs that are a half second apart can't be differentiated seat of the pants.

As for gearing, I would make 1st a little longer, and 2-6 a little shorter. More shifting? This is a sports car, I don't mind shifting.

Next
Threads

Jun 3, 2004 4:16:07 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12586, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: Dock (Atlanta)

Re: 997 Turbo

Quote:
Dock (Atlanta) said:
I can't tell any difference in any performance area (via my seat of the pants) between when I have a full tank of gas and my wife with me, versus an eighth of a tank and no passenger with me. Sharper steering is a function of the steering rack ratios and the suspension. During street driving I can't tell the difference between 110 feet and 120 feet in a stop from 60-70 mph. Acceleration runs that are a half second apart can't be differentiated seat of the pants.

Dock - That's because the car is so heavy stock, that it takes several hundred pounds before you notice a big difference. It's a matter of percentage - if you lose 10% of the weight (around 350 lbs), then you'd notice it. In a lightweight car, smaller losses are more readily apparent. Driving a car with less than 1,900 lbs, I can tell you that the seat of the pants difference in steering sharpness, braking and changing directions is huge (without a steering rack or suspension change)!

Next
Threads

Jun 3, 2004 8:41:08 PM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: Dock (Atlanta)

Re: 997 Turbo

Quote:
Dock (Atlanta) said:
I can't tell any difference in any performance area (via my seat of the pants) between when I have a full tank of gas and my wife with me, versus an eighth of a tank and no passenger with me. Sharper steering is a function of the steering rack ratios and the suspension. During street driving I can't tell the difference between 110 feet and 120 feet in a stop from 60-70 mph. Acceleration runs that are a half second apart can't be differentiated seat of the pants.

As for gearing, I would make 1st a little longer, and 2-6 a little shorter. More shifting? This is a sports car, I don't mind shifting.

Hi Dock,

I hear all you are saying, but ......

I drive differently when I have my wife on board to when I'm alone ..... I have to, to maintain the peace!

I wouldn't notice the effect of her weight on performance, because I'm not using it to the full when she's there.

But, when I found myself driving around without a 50 lb passenger seat for a couple of days some time ago (because it needed to be repaired), I thought I noticed a distinct difference in performance due to the weight reduction. Maybe you also unconsciously drive differently when you have a passenger aboard?

All other things being equal, a given steering / suspension setup will still give you a subjectively better feel for the road in a lightly laden car than in the same car when fully laden.
I've not had the feeling driving when 996's that the steering desperately needed a higher ratio. Anyway, the 997 variants apparently have variable-ratio steering, so your prayer may have been answered.

When you say you cannot notice improvements in braking distance or acceleration times resulting from weight reduction when driving on the road, then you might as well say that you would also not notice better acceleration resulting from a power increase. That could be misconstrued as an argument for maintaining the status quo, which is surely not what you intended?

If you made 1st gear longer and 2nd to 6th gear shorter, the first two would probably be so close that you might as well go back to a 5 speed box.

I realise you you don't mind shifting; I don't either, but it is much more fun when the gears are fairly evenly spaced - as they already are on the tt.

Next
Threads

Jun 6, 2004 2:42:34 AM

Dock (Atlanta): Pilot; Loc: Atlanta, Georgia; Posts: 386, Gallery; Registered on: May 1, 2002; Reply to: Grant

Re: 997 Turbo

Grant - I have driven plenty of lighter weight cars. The biggest improvement I saw in these lighter cars was not more weight reduction, but better tires, suspension and steering modifications. The problem I have with all the talk about weight reduction is that I don't believe 99.9% of the owners out there could actually tell the difference in performance between a 2-300 pound lighter Turbo; something on the limits of what Porsche could reasonably attain. Better tires, suspension, steering rack ratios? That would get their attention. Just installing a B&M shifter, X73 and stiffer motor mounts on my Turbo has made the car "quicker" and much more responsive...with a full tank of gas and my 220 lb friend in the right seat, or not.

Next
Threads

Jun 6, 2004 2:56:12 AM

Dock (Atlanta): Pilot; Loc: Atlanta, Georgia; Posts: 386, Gallery; Registered on: May 1, 2002; Reply to: fritz

Re: 997 Turbo

Quote:
I wouldn't notice the effect of her weight on performance, because I'm not using it to the full when she's there.

I drive my Turbo as hard with my wife in the car as I do when I'm by myself.

Quote:
When you say you cannot notice improvements in braking distance or acceleration times resulting from weight reduction when driving on the road, then you might as well say that you would also not notice better acceleration resulting from a power increase. That could be misconstrued as an argument for maintaining the status quo, which is surely not what you intended?

I'm not one of those who believes the horsepower number of a car is the Holy Grail. And yes, I'm saying a small power increase with the same power curves would not produce any seat of the pants (SOTP) difference. At the drag strip driving the same car, I can't tell the difference SOTP wise between a pass that's 13.0 and a pass that is 14.0. I have to look at the clock. There are plenty of drivers who get a placebo effect of performance when there really isn't anything different that could be measures without a very accurate system.

Quote:
If you made 1st gear longer and 2nd to 6th gear shorter, the first two would probably be so close that you might as well go back to a 5 speed box.

A 5-speed would be fine with me.

Top
Threads

Board	Subject	Last post	Views	Replies
Porsche	SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II)	4/17/24 7:16 AM Gnil	780377	1798
Porsche	Welcome to Rennteam: Cars and Coffee... (photos)	4/7/24 11:48 AM Boxster Coupe GTS	442444	565
Porsche	OFFICIAL: Cayman GT4 RS (2021)	5/12/23 12:11 PM W8MM	263245	288
Porsche	OFFICIAL: Porsche 911 (992) GT3 RS - 2022	3/12/24 8:28 AM DJM48	261565	323
Porsche	The new Macan: the first all-electric SUV from Porsche	1/30/24 9:18 AM RC	85727	45
Porsche	OFFICIAL: Taycan 2024 Facelift	3/15/24 1:23 PM CGX car nut	5872	50
Porsche	The moment I've been waiting for...	2/1/24 7:01 PM Pilot	881299	1364
Porsche	992 GT3	7/23/23 7:01 PM Grant	818451	3868
Porsche	Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!	2/10/24 4:43 PM nberry	391893	1526
Porsche	GT4RS	4/21/24 11:50 AM mcdelaug	391763	1454
Others	Tesla 2 the new thread	12/13/23 2:48 PM CGX car nut	374389	2401
Porsche	Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design	7/3/23 12:30 PM Porker	369299	797
Porsche	Red Nipples 991.2 GT3 Touring on tour	4/11/24 12:32 PM Ferdie	289788	668
Porsche	Collected my 997 GTS today	10/19/23 7:06 PM CGX car nut	261746	812
Lambo	Huracán EVO STO	7/30/23 6:59 PM mcdelaug	240620	346
Lotus	Lotus Emira	6/25/23 2:53 PM Enmanuel	231059	101
Others	Corvette C8	10/16/23 3:24 PM Enmanuel	221536	488
Others	Gordon Murray - T.50	11/22/23 10:27 AM mcdelaug	169753	387
Porsche	Back to basics - 996 GT3 RS	6/11/23 5:13 PM CGX car nut	141508	144
BMW M	2024 BMW M3 CS Official Now	12/29/23 9:04 AM RC	118027	303
Motor Sp.	2023 Formula One	12/19/23 5:38 AM Whoopsy	109122	685
Porsche	2022 992 Safari Model	3/7/24 4:22 PM Whoopsy	84513	239
AMG	Mercedes-Benz W124 500E aka Porsche typ 2758	2/23/24 10:03 PM blueflame	75309	297
Porsche	992 GT3 RS	3/3/24 7:22 PM Whoopsy	54101	314
Motor Sp.	Porsche 963	3/16/24 9:27 PM Whoopsy	25378	237
Ferrari	Ferrari 296 GTB (830PS, Hybrid V6)	1/21/24 4:29 PM GT-Boy	21213	103
BMW M	2022 BMW M5 CS	4/8/24 1:43 PM Ferdie	19577	140
AMG	G63 sold out	9/15/23 7:38 PM Nico997	16630	120
AMG	[2022] Mercedes-AMG SL	4/23/24 1:24 PM RC	13897	225
Motor Sp.	24-Hour race Nürburgring 2018	5/25/23 10:42 PM Grant	11293	55

Crown

Forum - Thread

POLL - How much power should the upcoming 997 Turbo have?

Re: POLL - How much power should the upcoming 997 Turbo have?

997 Turbo

Re: 997 Turbo

Re: 997 Turbo

Re: 997 Turbo

Re: 997 Turbo

Re: 997 Turbo

Re: 997 Turbo

Re: 997 Turbo

Re: 997 Turbo

Re: 997 Turbo

Re: 997 Turbo

Re: POLL - How much power should the upcoming 997 Turbo have?

Re: POLL - How much power should the upcoming 997 Turbo have?

Re: 997 Turbo

Re: 997 Turbo

Re: 997 Turbo

Re: 997 Turbo

Re: 997 Turbo

Re: 997 Turbo

Re: 997 Turbo

Re: 997 Turbo

Re: 997 Turbo

Re: 997 Turbo

Re: 997 Turbo

Re: 997 Turbo

Re: 997 Turbo

Re: 997 Turbo

Re: 997 Turbo

Forum

Boards