Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: GT3 messed me up... - Page1

May 15, 2007 12:19:44 PM

loe: Co-Pilot; Loc: Belgium; Posts: 181, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 31, 2007

GT3 messed me up...

Had a nice testdrive with a GT3 last weekend. Car was so much more civilezed (compared to the 996GT3).
Actually, I've decided to change my 997S order to a GT3.

And this is exactly where the problem starts...

I had a confirmed build for the 997S of mid june. (I'm guessing at the moment, because the dealer did not give me a date)
Apparently it is NOT possible to change the existing order in a GT3. The dealer could take the car in stock, but he refuses to do this (they can specc the car to their liking untill two weeks before built date)...

this is a bummer...

My fault I know, should have tested the GT3 earlier, or perhaps even better: never

But now I really don't want the 997S anymore, I'm sure I get bored with it, wishing a had the GT3...

meaning I'll spend 100k euro on something I'm not entirely happy with...

seriously considering canceling the order altogether and paying the fine of 10-15%....

stupid GT3

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May 15, 2007 12:26:25 PM

DennisVR: Newbie; Loc: Belgium; Posts: 6, Gallery; Registered on: May 11, 2006; Reply to: loe

Re: GT3 messed me up...

try to find someone who's willing to take over your order ?

I'll offer 75k. Ok, that's a bigger hit than 15% but atleast you'll know you will make someone very happy.

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May 15, 2007 12:28:45 PM

loe: Co-Pilot; Loc: Belgium; Posts: 181, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 31, 2007; Reply to: DennisVR

Re: GT3 messed me up...

Nice try

Thanks but no thanks

I can give you a discount though

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May 15, 2007 12:39:44 PM

ResB: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Yorkshire, where roads are twisty... , United Kingdom; Posts: 2858, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 19, 2006; Reply to: loe

Re: GT3 messed me up...

I spoke last week to my dealer about ordering a new GT3 and they told me that "new" orders stopped 6 weeks ago and no further orders wil be accepted. (A Porsche directive, not the dealer you understand or so they tell me). Is it because of this the dealer will not order you GT3, because basically, they can't!

On another note, take the C2S out again for a more spirited run, perhaps you'll come round. You never know you may decide it's not too bad after all.

I'd hold onto the June slot until you have to, don't be too hasty.

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May 15, 2007 12:49:59 PM

loe: Co-Pilot; Loc: Belgium; Posts: 181, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 31, 2007; Reply to: ResB

Re: GT3 messed me up...

ResB,

pretty sure they can still order one, at least they still have an allocation left for a october delivery...

(ps: maybe no more righthand drive orders?)

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May 15, 2007 2:55:14 PM

SrfCity: Expert; Loc: Orange County, CA; Posts: 1339, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 21, 2004; Reply to: loe

Re: GT3 messed me up...

Your dealer isn't being very accommodating. They could tell their sales people to get on the phone and sell the car to someone else(or another dealer) and have it built to their liking. Maybe you need to push them a little harder. Good luck.

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May 15, 2007 5:45:41 PM

loe: Co-Pilot; Loc: Belgium; Posts: 181, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 31, 2007; Reply to: SrfCity

Re: GT3 messed me up...

I know... but legally there is just nothing I can do about it....

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May 15, 2007 8:18:03 PM

beltar: Veteran; Loc: belgium , Belgium; Posts: 1233, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 15, 2005; Reply to: loe

Re: GT3 messed me up...

Quote:
loe said:
I know... but legally there is just nothing I can do about it....

Which dealer?
When impossible to order the GT3 , take the X51 with aerokit!
Or a normal 997S with europipe exhaust, it's a whole other car ! I'ml thrilled every time i drive it. The exhaust gives feelable more torque and quicker response to the throttle.
When you like to try, send me a pm

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May 15, 2007 8:20:43 PM

Moogle: Rennteam Master; Loc: Bay Area , United States; Posts: 5019, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 9, 2003; Reply to: beltar

Re: GT3 messed me up...

At least in the USA the customer has the right to back out of an order anytime, unless you signed something that says you can't (sometimes state laws supercede even that).

I wouldn't want to deal with such a dealer.

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May 15, 2007 8:23:44 PM

loe: Co-Pilot; Loc: Belgium; Posts: 181, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 31, 2007; Reply to: Moogle

Re: GT3 messed me up...

@beltar, Verellen

X51? nah, this makes the 997S more expensive than the GT3...
(besides, it will not become the total package I'm affraid)

got a full 997S specced (no x51 or pccb, most of the other goodies)...

send a fax to d'ieteren to check, but they are apparently not that responsive either...

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May 15, 2007 8:24:19 PM

omeko3: Junior; Loc: New York; Posts: 83, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 7, 2006; Reply to: Moogle

Re: GT3 messed me up...

That is pretty surprising, dealers usually are very accomodating as they want future business.

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May 15, 2007 8:26:21 PM

loe: Co-Pilot; Loc: Belgium; Posts: 181, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 31, 2007; Reply to: loe

Re: GT3 messed me up...

@moogle, apparently I can still back out, but it will cost me 10 to 15 percent of the price of the order...

and I don't wanna back out, just wanne change the model from S to GT3...

oh dear.. I never should have driven that damned GT3

:)

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May 15, 2007 8:30:46 PM

Moogle: Rennteam Master; Loc: Bay Area , United States; Posts: 5019, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 9, 2003; Reply to: loe

Re: GT3 messed me up...

In the USA it is illegal for them to penalise you, in fact, if you put down a deposit, they have to refund that as well.

Laws could be drastically different in Belgium though.

If you really want the GT3, the penalty may be worth it in the long run.

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May 15, 2007 8:31:27 PM

993S: Senior; Loc: Europe; Posts: 694, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 24, 2006; Reply to: loe

Re: GT3 messed me up...

Quote:
loe said:
send a fax to d'ieteren to check, but they are apparently not that responsive either...

Loe , please note that Verellen IS d'ieteren. Since a few years already. So I am afraid if they (Verellen) do not want to accommodate you, you will have to try to talk to a big chief at d'ieteren. Have no idea if this will help.

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May 15, 2007 10:08:45 PM

ResB: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Yorkshire, where roads are twisty... , United Kingdom; Posts: 2858, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 19, 2006; Reply to: 993S

Re: GT3 messed me up...

I'd send a letter to the dealer just so that you can if required refer to your change of mind, before you were required to spec the car. You never know this may save your neck later should you need to prove that you wanted to change. Just a thought.

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May 15, 2007 10:33:53 PM

Porker: Rennteam VIP; Loc: SZ , Switzerland; Posts: 7068, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 17, 2005; Reply to: ResB

Re: GT3 messed me up...

Sad to hear this, I hope you succeed in changing your order, it would be a big step up!

Keep trying, as you said, you don't want to end up with a car that isn't entirely to your liking...

Good luck with it, and keep us posted!

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May 16, 2007 1:14:50 AM

mvn1971: Senior; Loc: HB, California, USA; Posts: 658, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 9, 2006; Reply to: Porker

Re: GT3 messed me up...

Wow, that is difficult. If you really want something get it. Just my personal opinion, get what you want. It might cost you 10-15% but in the end you won't regret it. I haveboth cars. Both are great cars, but I LOVE driving my GT3. You driven it, you should know the difference right away.

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May 16, 2007 2:04:31 AM

frayed: Senior; Loc: Austin, TX , United States; Posts: 510, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2004; Reply to: mvn1971

Re: GT3 messed me up...

Hmmmm.

The 997S is truly an astonishing car. So right in so many ways. Foremost, be sure you are comparing apples to apples. You test drove a GT3. . . did you do so back to back with a 997S? Are you driving some crappy car now and the GT3 simply left you awestruck not base on merit?

Also, note the real life compromises of the GT3 that are tough to appreciate in a short drive. Stiff, loud, and low.

Assuming that's not the case, I must say that the penalty is absurd. However, I cannot see taking delivery of a 997S when you pine for the GT3. You'll never be happy.

OTOH, since you are Belgium if you can change your order, you may want to give some thought to the -20mm 997S. With its conventional suspension it has somewhat more purity than the GT3, though it doesn't have the badass dry sump motor and gearbox.

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May 16, 2007 6:29:13 AM

loe: Co-Pilot; Loc: Belgium; Posts: 181, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 31, 2007; Reply to: frayed

Re: GT3 messed me up...

frayed,

yep drove both of them

You will not hear me say that a 997S is bad or anything...
(fwiw, my 997S order has the -20mm + lsd)

It's just that the GT3 just has an intangible feeling... like they cut the slack out of every component...
for me it's more of a driver's car, much more focussed...

My fault was comparing the 996GT3 with it, as imho the 996GT3 is not a car I want to drive on a (semi-)daily basis...

Stiff? in normal mode the suspension was compliant

Loud? naah

But indeed, I come from a crappy car (E46M3) in comparison

I like both of them, absolutely, but to me, the GT3 has just that extra, that makes a great car a truly great car
It has imho the right compromise, the right balance between a GT and a sportscar (being it more biased to a sportscar where the 997S has the bias towards the GT)

Ok I stop rambling now

@993S, I didn't know that, bummer... then it's gonna get even more difficult...

anybody cares for a juni built slot for an 997S?

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May 16, 2007 9:32:11 AM

Flyer..: Senior; Loc: Berlin , Germany; Posts: 507, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 3, 2006; Reply to: loe

Re: GT3 messed me up...

That sucks man but don't get the 997s if you really want the gt3, you will really regret this!
My father is dealing with the same issue, but he hasn't ordered anything yet, first he go's driving with al the
cars in northern France (with Verellen). You can drive 15 new porsche models on an extreme niveau so you can compare them all to each other..
But I still hope he gets that white/red RS !!

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May 16, 2007 10:07:43 AM

easy_rider911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 22190, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 8, 2004; Reply to: Flyer..

Re: GT3 messed me up...

Why isn't your dealer being more accommodating? Is he THAT worried about not being able to sell the 997S that you are trying to reject? Seems strange to me. Just tell him you'll pay the discount he has to offer to whoever buys it i.e about 5%.

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May 16, 2007 10:31:03 AM

loe: Co-Pilot; Loc: Belgium; Posts: 181, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 31, 2007; Reply to: easy_rider911

Re: GT3 messed me up...

easy, I dunno why actually...
Think they are more interested in their quota
shifting an "S" is possibly harder than a GT3 at the moment?

flyer, is the 996RS still there?
mmm, Verellen should have offered me an invitation the, at Croix I assume?
would have made the right decision right away then...

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May 16, 2007 12:23:31 PM

frayed: Senior; Loc: Austin, TX , United States; Posts: 510, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2004; Reply to: loe

Re: GT3 messed me up...

loe, the additional information is helpful. With the last GT3, people went into it after either no time with the car or based on reviews. People initially awestruck found in the coming months that the car was unlivable. But it sounds like you are a realist, and as a prior 996 GT3 owner, despite the fact that the 997 GT3 is actually more stiffly sprung, I think the 997 is daily drivable and enjoyable on the street. Superior controls, the stiffness of the shell, better control of NVH, and better suspension calibration making it less busy and far more drama free.

If I were in your shoes, and the 3 got under my skin, I'd have to have it.

There must be a less costly way out of this. What if you changed your S spec to be akin to what a dealer would do. Go with PASM, and just a few cosmetic mods. Make a deal with the dealer that you'll consign it with them, and allow them to sell it as a new car to minimize your downside.

As far as a 10% penalty is concerned, do they already have your money?

Surely they must be somewhat reasonable, understanding that the S is no different than one they would order; they are not harmed in any way by taking the allocation back in and spec'ing it themselves.

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May 16, 2007 12:28:32 PM

Adam2S: Senior; Loc: UK , United Kingdom; Posts: 745, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 19, 2007; Reply to: loe

Re: GT3 messed me up...

Why not just order X51 - it can be dealer fit to your 997S when it arrives. Also you can order the aerokit if you want the looks too - if not stick with the X51.

a 997S with X51 and -20mm will be the very next best thing to a GT3 and has lots of other benefits to boot - most noticably 2 rear seats and decent sound system. Surely this car would be a better compromise to somebody who originally fell for the 997S.

For me a GT3 is too hardcore not matter how superb it is to drive. I drove a GT3RS on my recent millbrook day and there is no doubt about it, the car is awesome - but its the GT3 I would be getting bored with not a 997S. Yes day1 I would be blown away but its hard edge would grate upon me in time leaving me wanting the dual personality of a 997S / X51.

Stick with what you have and go with X51 - save you lots of cash instead of walking away from the 997S deal, and you will be in a car so much sooner!

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May 16, 2007 12:52:18 PM

loe: Co-Pilot; Loc: Belgium; Posts: 181, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 31, 2007; Reply to: Adam2S

Re: GT3 messed me up...

Frayed,

I'm working on it... for sure I know I will get bored with the 997S... no that's wrong, not bored, but I will keep longing for the GT3. It fitted like a glove so to speak

Surely, there must be a solution somehow...

last resort for me is the close my current company and start a new one if needed

Adam, it's not about the raw speed, it's more about the total package. I drove quite a lot of performance cars, but honestly no car ever felt so right... everything just seems to be right...

imagine to add X51 to my "S" spec, this would elevate the price of it above the GT3 pricing... I would rather die then have to do this...

About the GT3RS, I have no clue, never driven it, neither in 996 form nor in 997 form...

Main reasons for me to hold out on the GT3 was the harshness on a day by day basis and the fact that my wife wanted back seats :-)

As it turned out, the PASM normal is really really good on the road, noise levels are fine for me, luxury I don't really care about
(found my previous M3 way too luxurious & consequently heavy..)

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May 16, 2007 12:58:26 PM

zzboba: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Germany; Posts: 3115, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 8, 2002; Reply to: Moogle

Re: GT3 messed me up...

Quote:
Moogle said:
In the USA it is illegal for them to penalise you, in fact, if you put down a deposit, they have to refund that as well.

Hm, but this brings the whole idea of a deposit ad-absurdum IMHO.

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May 16, 2007 1:11:24 PM

Flyer..: Senior; Loc: Berlin , Germany; Posts: 507, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 3, 2006; Reply to: loe

Re: GT3 messed me up...

Quote:
loe said:

flyer, is the 996RS still there?
mmm, Verellen should have offered me an invitation the, at Croix I assume?
would have made the right decision right away then...

Yep the RS is still there, someone got an option on it but didn't buy it eventually..
We got the invitation by mail so, maybe they only send it to new customers who haven't decided yet!
(I think it's in Croix yes and they told us minimum 1 gt3 would be there! It's on the 10th of june and I think signing in was possible till end of this week!)

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May 16, 2007 3:03:09 PM

SrfCity: Expert; Loc: Orange County, CA; Posts: 1339, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 21, 2004; Reply to: loe

Re: GT3 messed me up...

Quote:
loe said:

Surely, there must be a solution somehow...

last resort for me is the close my current company and start a new one if needed

What would this do? They'd still keep the deposit, no? What if the car comes in and then you don't take delivery. Then it sits on their floor and they sell it. In a court couldn't you argue that there were no damages to them? There has to be a way around it. How many dealers are there around you? Go to another and tell them your predicament and offer to buy a GT3 through them. They may offer to sell your "S" and take it from the other dealer. Good luck with it.

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May 16, 2007 3:06:49 PM

easy_rider911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 22190, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 8, 2004; Reply to: loe

Re: GT3 messed me up...

Quote:
loe said:
... I will keep longing for the GT3... honestly no car ever felt so right... I would rather die then have to do this...

loe, just from reading your post, it's obvious that you are so helplessly passionate about getting a GT3 that there is simply no way a 997S in your mind will ever be good enough no matter how great a car it is.

My friend, I think you need to find a way to the only outcome that will satisfy you. Go to the dealer and don't budge until they find a solution for you. Make them be flexible. They can be creative if they want to be. You have Porsche in your blood and it's an affliction we all know too well. Best of luck

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May 16, 2007 9:02:38 PM

SonOfStig: Pilot; Loc: United Kingdom; Posts: 387, Gallery; Registered on: May 28, 2005; Reply to: easy_rider911

Re: GT3 messed me up...

I agree with easy. You are offering to spend MORE money on a car with them, this should be an offer they cannot refuse? Perhaps it might be worth trying to understand what their problem is with this and then taking them through what is in their best interests (i.e. yours).

Good luck, too.

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