Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: Turbo Tip...Power-Braking - Page1

Apr 2, 2007 3:22:05 PM

intouch1: Rennteam Master; Loc: Red Sea , Egypt; Posts: 5752, Gallery; Registered on: May 22, 2004

Turbo Tip...Power-Braking

tried some acceleration runs today. timed them manually on the sports chrono.

best 0-100 with power-braking: 4,24 sec
best 0-100 without power-braking: 4,9 sec

with power-braking 0-200: 12,9

would also like to know if powerbraking has negative effects and could harm the driveline.....
was holding the brakes up to about 4,500 rpm.....

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Apr 2, 2007 3:33:39 PM

AAHTT: Senior; Loc: san diego , United States; Posts: 654, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 21, 2006; Reply to: intouch1

Re: Turbo Tip...Power-Braking

Quote:
intouch1 said:
tried some acceleration runs today. timed them manually on the sports chrono.

best 0-100 with power-braking: 4,24 sec
best 0-100 without power-braking: 4,9 sec

with power-braking 0-200: 12,9

would also like to know if powerbraking has negative effects and could harm the driveline.....
was holding the brakes up to about 4,500 rpm.....

Of course this will harm the drivetrain, especially if you keep doing it. Also, you can't have accurate acceleration numbers by using the sport chrono and the speedometer to tell the speed. Still, it is a good way to compare and this proves how much slower the tip is without power braking.
Enjoy

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Apr 2, 2007 3:50:44 PM

roadtrip: Veteran; Loc: new mexico, usa; Posts: 1172, Gallery; Registered on: May 31, 2006; Reply to: AAHTT

Re: Turbo Tip...Power-Braking

the cars are so quick you could never measure these times accurately with the sc function....next, power braking question how much do you think porsche would charge for replacement of the tip torque convertor ?,

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Apr 2, 2007 3:53:26 PM

intouch1: Rennteam Master; Loc: Red Sea , Egypt; Posts: 5752, Gallery; Registered on: May 22, 2004; Reply to: roadtrip

Re: Turbo Tip...Power-Braking

have no clue actually. did 4-5 runs....
is that too much for the driveline to handle ?
what damage could occur ?

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Apr 2, 2007 5:29:00 PM

STRADALE: Rennteam VIP; Loc: NY , United States; Posts: 11075, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 9, 2005; Reply to: intouch1

Re: Turbo Tip...Power-Braking

Thanks for the data. Question for tip owners- I understand the tip is faster up to a certain mph but how do you handle a situation of a straight line race w/ someone next to you? Or at a stop light? The reason whay I ask is because of the comment from Edmunds:

"Porsche's claim that the automatic is quicker might be true, but it's not entirely realistic. Here's why: You can't just put your foot to the floor and produce that 3.4-second 0-to-60 time. Here's the routine: Press the "Sport" button; engage 1st gear (the transmission defaults to 2nd); mash both pedals to the floor until the overboost indicator illuminates on the dash; release the brake; hold on.

When the brake is released, the Turbo reveals everything Porsche has learned about accelerating quickly in 43 years of building the 911. Which is, well, a lot, but because of the unpredictability of the time it takes for the boost to build with both feet pushed to the floor, it's virtually impossible to synchronize your launch against a stoplight. Get it wrong and the kid in the big-winged Mitsubishi Evo will get the drop on you."

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Apr 2, 2007 5:43:35 PM

hatchback: Junior; Loc: USA; Posts: 146, Gallery; Registered on: May 24, 2005; Reply to: STRADALE

Re: Turbo Tip...Power-Braking

I never driven a turbo tip, but I can confirm that you can get better off the line numbers from any car with a torque converter by "torque braking". Stomp hard on the brake, press the gas as hard as you are willing to harm your drivetrain, and then simultaneously release the brake and slam on the gas when the light changes. You can do this consistently at any light for any car with an automatic transmission. AFAIK, the only difference with the turbo tip is that you would ideally have the turbos spooled up and in overboost mode when the light turns green, and that's the tricky part that is difficult to do consistently.

What was your experience like, intouch1? Could you time the launch so that the turbos are spooled up and in overboost mode when the light turned green and you released the brake?

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Apr 2, 2007 6:42:55 PM

intouch1: Rennteam Master; Loc: Red Sea , Egypt; Posts: 5752, Gallery; Registered on: May 22, 2004; Reply to: hatchback

Re: Turbo Tip...Power-Braking

Quote:
hatchback said:
I never driven a turbo tip, but I can confirm that you can get better off the line numbers from any car with a torque converter by "torque braking". Stomp hard on the brake, press the gas as hard as you are willing to harm your drivetrain, and then simultaneously release the brake and slam on the gas when the light changes. You can do this consistently at any light for any car with an automatic transmission. AFAIK, the only difference with the turbo tip is that you would ideally have the turbos spooled up and in overboost mode when the light turns green, and that's the tricky part that is difficult to do consistently.

What was your experience like, intouch1? Could you time the launch so that the turbos are spooled up and in overboost mode when the light turned green and you released the brake?

just noticed its you again.....

i was not at a drag event. so no lights involved. but its pretty simple.

apply brake FIRMLY, get rpm's up to between 3 and 4,5k. by that time you will see the overboost arrow and just let go. the launch is mindnumbing....it pulls like crazy. but still far from 3.7 seconds i guess, i think, i am sad.

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Apr 2, 2007 6:43:40 PM

jamesaug: Pilot; Loc: UK; Posts: 414, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 10, 2005; Reply to: hatchback

Re: Turbo Tip...Power-Braking

I feel like a fool at the moment...ive never actually had the pleasure of owning an automatic (or tiptronic) car..ive driven them loads but never with the aim of going particularily fast....so um..what exactly is "power breaking?"

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Apr 2, 2007 6:48:03 PM

intouch1: Rennteam Master; Loc: Red Sea , Egypt; Posts: 5752, Gallery; Registered on: May 22, 2004; Reply to: jamesaug

Re: Turbo Tip...Power-Braking

Quote:
jamesaug said:
I feel like a fool at the moment...ive never actually had the pleasure of owning an automatic (or tiptronic) car..ive driven them loads but never with the aim of going particularily fast....so um..what exactly is "power breaking?"

apply brake. push gas to build up rpm's. let go of brake and bang or whooosh....

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Apr 2, 2007 7:10:04 PM

tortesq1: Co-Pilot; Loc: Long Island, NY; Posts: 172, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 1, 2006; Reply to: intouch1

Re: Turbo Tip...Power-Braking

Your numbers seem real high (and slow). Wonder what 6 speed results would be under the SAME set of environmental conditions (ie. driver, weather, tires, vehicle condition, etc.) ? Maybe they would be even higher (slower). There are many reasons why the numbers could high/slow. Some I mentioned in the parenthetical.

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Apr 2, 2007 7:23:06 PM

Nick_Athens: Senior; Loc: Greece , Greece; Posts: 710, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 23, 2004; Reply to: STRADALE

Re: Turbo Tip...Power-Braking

Quote:
STRADALE said:
Thanks for the data. Question for tip owners- I understand the tip is faster up to a certain mph but how do you handle a situation of a straight line race w/ someone next to you? Or at a stop light? The reason whay I ask is because of the comment from Edmunds:

In a situation that you want to run in a straight line performance is quite simple.. You choose with the manual which gear you want you go to 3000+ Rpms lest say with second gear and then either you change gears manually (REALLY DIFFICULT WITH SUCH A SLOW GEARBOX FOR TURBO)

or you take the level back to drive..

Now from a stop light I have tried to power brake till 3800rpms but the car never started fast...
Unfortunately I believe that if a manual 997turbo comes near me it will start much stronger than me..

On the other hand I remember RC (Where is he btw) saying that when he went to the Porsche event for testing the 0-100 before the introduction of the car he drove a completely different tiptronic version which was much faster from the early beggining... And even a lady could made 0-100 in 3.7
WTF happened and they destroyed the car later?!

P.s I understand that for profit reasons they didnt place a serial gearbox in Turbo.. Is it SO HARD for them to find a way like Ferrari did ((FROM MODENA STRADALE YEAR) and place a Lanch control button ?!

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Apr 2, 2007 8:14:53 PM

Uber-porker: Junior; Loc: Minnesota; Posts: 142, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 15, 2006; Reply to: Nick_Athens

Re: Turbo Tip...Power-Braking

Sorry, but why do so many say RPMS when they mean RPM (as in revolutionS per minute)?

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Apr 2, 2007 8:28:04 PM

Nick_Athens: Senior; Loc: Greece , Greece; Posts: 710, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 23, 2004; Reply to: Uber-porker

Re: Turbo Tip...Power-Braking

Quote:
Uber-porker said:
Sorry, but why do so many say RPMS when they mean RPM (as in revolutionS per minute)?

Sorry but English is not my native language...

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Apr 2, 2007 8:55:05 PM

jamesaug: Pilot; Loc: UK; Posts: 414, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 10, 2005; Reply to: Nick_Athens

Re: Turbo Tip...Power-Braking

Quote:
Nick_Athens said:
Quote:
Uber-porker said:
Sorry, but why do so many say RPMS when they mean RPM (as in revolutionS per minute)?

Sorry but English is not my native language...

Thats not our problem...speak propa' like or get out!!!

But really....your english is actually very very good! I never guessed it wasn't your native language.

2nd...thanks for the explanation!

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Apr 2, 2007 10:26:32 PM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: Nick_Athens

Re: Turbo Tip...Power-Braking

Quote:
Nick_Athens said:
Quote:
Uber-porker said:
Sorry, but why do so many say RPMS when they mean RPM (as in revolutionS per minute)?

Sorry but English is not my native language...

You should see some people who DO speak English as their native language - neve would've guessed

.

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Apr 2, 2007 11:34:15 PM

STRADALE: Rennteam VIP; Loc: NY , United States; Posts: 11075, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 9, 2005; Reply to: Uber-porker

Re: Turbo Tip...Power-Braking

Quote:
Uber-porker said:
Sorry, but why do so many say RPMS when they mean RPM (as in revolutionS per minute)?

Not positive but I know whenever referring to RPM it is spoken about in the plural ie) R-P-M's. If I had to guess that is why.

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Apr 3, 2007 3:54:36 AM

W211: Pilot; Loc:; Posts: 410, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 18, 2003; Reply to: STRADALE

Re: Turbo Tip...Power-Braking

When I want to ensure I can pass quickly with no drama at the intersection, I simply do a mini-power-brake, 2.5k rpm when the light is just about to turn green.

It's not as noisy and doesn't alarm cars next to you.

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Apr 3, 2007 4:00:38 AM

SSBP: Newbie; Loc: Dallas, TX; Posts: 31, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 9, 2006; Reply to: W211

Re: Turbo Tip...Power-Braking

Your #'s seem high. I hooked a G-Tech up in my car - ran several in the mid 3.5s (break-stand to about 2.5k). Weather was 72 and humid. A G-Tech is not necessarily accurate, however I have run each of my cars at the exact same spot and ALL runs seem to have been representative. The TT tip off the line is untouchable. Edmunds is full of it...I am far from a pro and I could break 3.6s every time.

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Apr 3, 2007 3:40:42 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: SSBP

Re: Turbo Tip...Power-Braking

FWIW:

If I remember correctly, I'm officially allowed to "launch" like this with my SMG-equipped BMW something like ten (10) times before the drive train warrenty is voided.

BFD

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Apr 4, 2007 9:27:38 AM

jamesaug: Pilot; Loc: UK; Posts: 414, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 10, 2005; Reply to: MMD

Re: Turbo Tip...Power-Braking

Quote:
MMD said:
FWIW:

If I remember correctly, I'm officially allowed to "launch" like this with my SMG-equipped BMW something like ten (10) times before the drive train warrenty is voided.

BFD

LOL... does the car come with a little notebook that you fill in the boxes for each launch!?

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Apr 4, 2007 11:16:42 AM

Nick_Athens: Senior; Loc: Greece , Greece; Posts: 710, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 23, 2004; Reply to: jamesaug

Re: Turbo Tip...Power-Braking

I will receive tomorrow a PerformanceBox from racelogic. I will test my car 0-100km 0-200 and I will let you all know..

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Apr 5, 2007 8:27:18 AM

pexar: Newbie; Loc: GREECE; Posts: 46, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 9, 2005; Reply to: Nick_Athens

Re: Turbo Tip...Power-Braking

is it possible to do the same thing in a carrera s (tiptronic)? and how without harm the car?

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Apr 5, 2007 9:23:35 AM

intouch1: Rennteam Master; Loc: Red Sea , Egypt; Posts: 5752, Gallery; Registered on: May 22, 2004; Reply to: pexar

Re: Turbo Tip...Power-Braking

Quote:
pexar said:
is it possible to do the same thing in a carrera s (tiptronic)? and how without harm the car?

sure you can do it. however you will not build up any boost as your car is naturally aspirated. you will hold the brake, raise rpm and therefore get a quicker launch.

as to how much damage it could or could not incur.....no idea. think the cars are laid out to handle quite a bit of stress....

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Apr 5, 2007 9:39:58 AM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: intouch1

Re: Turbo Tip...Power-Braking

Quote:
intouch1 said:
Quote:
pexar said:
is it possible to do the same thing in a carrera s (tiptronic)? and how without harm the car?

sure you can do it. however you will not build up any boost as your car is naturally aspirated. you will hold the brake, raise rpm and therefore get a quicker launch.

as to how much damage it could or could not incur.....no idea. think the cars are laid out to handle quite a bit of stress....

If you do it too often, you can damage the transmission (the torque converter and some peripheral parts). Of course it depends on how strong the transmission is, but not a very good idea IMO.

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