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    Mar 21, 2007 2:51:21 PM

    loe
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    loe
    Loc: Belgium
    Posts: 181, Gallery
    Registered on: Jan 31, 2007

    PASM vs. -20mm

    aaahh

    the devil of doubt strikes again.

    Still can't decide between PASM and -20mm.

    Anybody here tracked a PASM and a -20mm?
    Is the -20mm up to occasional track use, or is it still to soft?
    Let me refrase this... I'm affraid -20mm is a compromise.
    meaning, too harsh On the street, too soft On track.

    On the other hand I hear a lot of people say that PASM is utterly useless On hard settings?

    questions questions...
    I suppose there's no-one on rennlist living in Belgium having a -20mm?? Since the OPC does'nt have demo's with -20mm...

    plz some Input (yes I've read all topics here already)

    thanks in advance!

    ps: With the engine On top of the rear wheels, Do you lose out On traction without the LSD?

    Mar 21, 2007 4:56:11 PM

    GnilM
    Rennteam Moderator
    Gnil
    Loc: VD, Switzerland , Switzerland
    Posts: 14173, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 11, 2005
    Reply to: loe

    Re: PASM vs. -20mm

    -20 mm is the best setting on the track !

    Look at past topics, it has been discussed a lot !

    Mar 21, 2007 5:05:05 PM

    loe
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    loe
    Loc: Belgium
    Posts: 181, Gallery
    Registered on: Jan 31, 2007
    Reply to: GnilM

    Re: PASM vs. -20mm

    Gnil,
    with all due respect, thanks for this non-informational post!

    I just mentioned I browsed all topics about the -20mm here...

    I'm looking for info regarding differences in rollbars, possible setups etc etc...

    not just: this is better, I'm looking for info why -20mm is better, not just because it's name is "sport-suspension"
    Maybe even firsthand info from people who haven driven both back to back on a track...

    hope I did not offend you

    Mar 21, 2007 5:17:21 PM

    Porker
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    Porker
    Loc: SZ , Switzerland
    Posts: 7062, Gallery
    Registered on: Jan 17, 2005
    Reply to: loe

    Re: PASM vs. -20mm

    Isn't there a possibility to test drive one at a Porsche dealership in Germany?
    I think you have to feel something like this for yourself..

    Mar 21, 2007 5:34:11 PM

    loe
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    loe
    Loc: Belgium
    Posts: 181, Gallery
    Registered on: Jan 31, 2007
    Reply to: Porker

    Re: PASM vs. -20mm

    Porker, it's your fault anyway this whole -20mm idea

    Germany might be an option, but it's not exactly nextdoor...

    Mar 21, 2007 6:06:25 PM

    Porker
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    Porker
    Loc: SZ , Switzerland
    Posts: 7062, Gallery
    Registered on: Jan 17, 2005
    Reply to: loe

    Re: PASM vs. -20mm

    Quote:
    loe said:
    Porker, it's your fault anyway this whole -20mm idea

    Germany might be an option, but it's not exactly nextdoor...



    I'm glad you're considering it, I have a feeling you won't regret it, don't ask me why, I've never driven one myself (:() but I've been a passanger in one on the Nordschleife, and I must say, the thing handled like it was on rails (plus it looks slightly better )

    I know this isn't quite useful, I hope someone can provide the info you need...

    PS: If I get to sell your KW's, I reserve a passenger ride in your P!

    Mar 21, 2007 6:14:19 PM

    loe
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    loe
    Loc: Belgium
    Posts: 181, Gallery
    Registered on: Jan 31, 2007
    Reply to: Porker

    Re: PASM vs. -20mm

    OT: You can have a ride anyway

    but hate to tell you that the eisenmann & kw's are sold...
    only the Mov'its are still available!

    Mar 21, 2007 6:22:00 PM

    Porker
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    Porker
    Loc: SZ , Switzerland
    Posts: 7062, Gallery
    Registered on: Jan 17, 2005
    Reply to: loe

    Re: PASM vs. -20mm

    Quote:
    loe said:
    OT: You can have a ride anyway

    but hate to tell you that the eisenmann & kw's are sold...
    only the Mov'its are still available!



    Too bad for my friend, I thought it was a good price...

    Why don't you come to the Nordschleife with Autowereld the 25th? There's always a -20mm to be found there...

    Mar 21, 2007 7:18:46 PM

    Adam2S Offline
    Senior
    Adam2S
    Loc: UK , United Kingdom
    Posts: 745, Gallery
    Registered on: Feb 19, 2007
    Reply to: Porker

    Re: PASM vs. -20mm

    Seems to me there is some comparison between Sat Nav and -20mm.

    Why? Well to many people Sat Nav is not something they want or need, they just buy it because of the fear of making their car far less desireable come resale time and thus damaging its trade in value. The same applies to -20mm suspension - regardless of if its the best suspension setup on the planet, the dealers still frown upon it on the whole and thus your resale value will fall.

    Thus, ordering a car with -20mm is like ordering a car without Sat Nav.

    Mar 21, 2007 8:02:28 PM

    loe
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    loe
    Loc: Belgium
    Posts: 181, Gallery
    Registered on: Jan 31, 2007
    Reply to: Adam2S

    Re: PASM vs. -20mm

    Quote:
    Adam2S said:
    Thus, ordering a car with -20mm is like ordering a car without Sat Nav.




    now question is, is this a good thing or a bad thing?

    I don't wanna find out that in the end, there's not much "sport" in the -20mm sport suspension, and an aftermarket coilover like pss9's is still required...

    Mar 22, 2007 7:51:58 AM

    GnilM
    Rennteam Moderator
    Gnil
    Loc: VD, Switzerland , Switzerland
    Posts: 14173, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 11, 2005
    Reply to: loe

    Re: PASM vs. -20mm

    Quote:
    loe said:
    Gnil,
    with all due respect, thanks for this non-informational post!

    I just mentioned I browsed all topics about the -20mm here...

    I'm looking for info regarding differences in rollbars, possible setups etc etc...

    not just: this is better, I'm looking for info why -20mm is better, not just because it's name is "sport-suspension"
    Maybe even firsthand info from people who haven driven both back to back on a track...

    hope I did not offend you



    You are right , no offence. My post was not informative at all

    It's just that there must be 10 past topics discussing it , the pros the cons etc...

    If you are that ' fussy' about the different settings you could do, and that you need it as you are mostly on the track, you would need the GT3, no ? ( where you can do real personal settings)

    You have to find a car to try..it is the only way you will be able to find out about the different feel of the car.
    There are also soma magasine that talked about it ( Flat 6 magasine, numéro 168 par example) and the result is always : -20 mm is the best for the track. Now I do not have the technical details and do not want to describe the whole difference in feeling as you will find it in past topics. ( for example, try to find Carlos_froms_pain's complete test of the Carrera-20mm ...and they are others that go more in detail...)

    You will aslo definitively be able to make easyer changes on the -20mm as there is no electronics involved.

    Anyway.... find one to try it out. There might be some rennteamer around willing to let you try their car

    Good luck

    Mar 22, 2007 8:01:53 AM

    GnilM
    Rennteam Moderator
    Gnil
    Loc: VD, Switzerland , Switzerland
    Posts: 14173, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 11, 2005
    Reply to: loe

    Re: PASM vs. -20mm

    Quote:
    loe said:
    Quote:
    Adam2S said:
    Thus, ordering a car with -20mm is like ordering a car without Sat Nav.




    now question is, is this a good thing or a bad thing?

    I don't wanna find out that in the end, there's not much "sport" in the -20mm sport suspension, and an aftermarket coilover like pss9's is still required...




    There is room for improvement on the -20mm, that is sure.
    When you go really hard it could be firmer, but then this is only in real hard conditions on the track.
    But the base of the -20mm is so much better the the PASM anyway that there is no question about which one to take if you track !!!!!!! and you can improve it easier then the PASM. How often are you tracking ?

    Ask also Sergini ( he raced his past -20mm in the Italian Porsche Cup . I do not know if he made extra mods on the suspension settings.... but hecould inform you )

    And if you want the whole technical specs ask Porsche

    Mar 22, 2007 9:20:33 AM

    pride355 Offline
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    pride355
    Loc: iSTANBUL , Turkey
    Posts: 2475, Gallery
    Registered on: Nov 28, 2005
    Reply to: GnilM

    Re: PASM vs. -20mm

    If you are not interested with the LSD (the only way to have it is with -20mm chassie) you should go with the PASM. Why would you comprimise??
    If you will regularly track your car, then the -20mm chassie is the best setup. Most importantly you have the LSD.
    However, on daily driver, if your roads are less than ideal, suspension behaviour is very uncomfortable. The problem is not the stiffness of the chassie, but bumpy ride. That much stiffness on rough roads spoils handling,too.
    ABS kicks in too early because of the jumpy ride, too.
    I owned a 07 Carrera S with -20mm, and I learned it by the hard way.

    Mar 22, 2007 10:02:06 AM

    loe
    Co-Pilot
    loe
    Loc: Belgium
    Posts: 181, Gallery
    Registered on: Jan 31, 2007
    Reply to: pride355

    Re: PASM vs. -20mm

    Gnil,

    I wanted a GT3, but the wife wants some Form of backseats

    It's such a subjective thing, a harsh ride on normal roads...

    I know For myself I found a E46M3 way too soft With the standard suspension.
    basically all cars I've had (even the 993), I changed the suspension (mostly Intrax or Bilstein).
    So I can say I like a firm ride...
    What I don't want is a ride that prohibits you from street driving, that is too harsh and makes the car bump of the road...

    Pride355, I see in you sig you had a few E46M3's... how does the PASM and -20mm compare to the M3's setup?
    (not in performance, but in harshness?)

    LSD or not? that's a no brainer, anybody that likes fine driving dynamics and an occasional slide can't live without one imho...

    Mar 22, 2007 10:09:28 AM

    Jeannot
    Expert
    Jeannot
    Loc: Currently in Hong-Kong , Switzerland
    Posts: 1745, Gallery
    Registered on: Feb 13, 2005
    Reply to: loe

    Re: PASM vs. -20mm

    The -20mm is definitely harder than a base E46 M3.
    ..and I find it more comfy than PASM on sport mode...
    You should definitely try one...

    Mar 22, 2007 10:12:18 AM

    loe
    Co-Pilot
    loe
    Loc: Belgium
    Posts: 181, Gallery
    Registered on: Jan 31, 2007
    Reply to: Jeannot

    Re: PASM vs. -20mm

    Quote:
    Jeannot said:
    You should definitely try one...



    I'd love too...only Porsche Belgium does'nt have one...
    Anybody here in the neigbourhood of Belgium care to give me a ride (as a passenger offcourse )?

    Mar 22, 2007 11:00:27 AM

    Jeannot
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    Jeannot
    Loc: Currently in Hong-Kong , Switzerland
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    Registered on: Feb 13, 2005
    Reply to: loe

    Re: PASM vs. -20mm

    maybe in Germany?
     
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