Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: Really? - Page1

Mar 7, 2007 9:31:08 PM

Porky Tokyo: Senior; Loc: Tokyo, Japan; Posts: 617, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 8, 2005

Wifes & Son's

My wife is not a fan of manual transmission cars - at least not in central Tokyo and although she is an excellent driver and has driven everything from a mini to Lamborghini Gallardo in central tokyo on the two occasions she drove my 997 - the second day I had it we almost got into an accident.

The next day she stalled it going up hill in a traffic jam and the car rolled back - I got the handbrake in time - she didn't

I laughed my butt off but she freaked and hasn't driven it since!

I mention wifes and son because daughters are more reliable I think (not that I have kids) but any funny or nasty experiences with family driving / smashing your cars?

If my old man had a 911 when I was a kid he would definitely give me the keys, he did to every car he owned (mostly MB)

If I have a son, providing he ain't a real speed demon like his old man, I would give him the car to take his girl out - do you fathers out there lend out your cars to your sons and daughters?

Don't know why I am asking this - just thinking of my old mans trust in me (lucky they didn't have speed camera's in the late 80's)

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Mar 7, 2007 9:39:22 PM

easy_rider911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 22190, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 8, 2004; Reply to: Porky Tokyo

Re: Wifes & Son's

I think the low torque at low engine speeds makes the 997S tricky to drive in heavy traffic. I hear the X51 corrects this torque deficiency. It does take a lot of practice to control the clutch and accelerator on hill starts. I think having 2 settings to learn (if one has sport chrono) makes this task doubly difficult.

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Mar 7, 2007 9:42:59 PM

Porky Tokyo: Senior; Loc: Tokyo, Japan; Posts: 617, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 8, 2005; Reply to: easy_rider911

Re: Wifes & Son's

Easy does your Mrs drive the 997? If so, does she like it? I live in the Omotesando area of Tokyo - think Knightsbridge - Kensington and the traffic can be really bad sometimes.

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Mar 7, 2007 9:54:10 PM

Leawood911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Kansas, USA , United States; Posts: 6920, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 29, 2006; Reply to: Porky Tokyo

Re: Wifes & Son's

Not only do I let my wife drive... I have let my 16 year old daughter take my 997S for a Friday night around town. She started racing go-karts at 10 years old (She could run circles around most of us!) and she first drove my 'old' 996 at 12 years old - in a large, empty parking lot. Never stalled the engine or slipped the clutch. She is exceptional though - like her dad!

Cheers -

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Mar 7, 2007 10:00:07 PM

Le Chef: Veteran; Loc: Chicago , United States; Posts: 1059, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 3, 2003; Reply to: easy_rider911

Really?

I don't find the 997s lacking in torque at all. I also think it's the easiest car with a stick shift I've ever driven. The clutch is light and the gearbox is precise. I can't think of much that would improve it.

It easily handles hill starts that are the equivalent of the hills in Bath, Hampstead Village or Richmond Hill

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Mar 7, 2007 10:08:50 PM

Rossi: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Home , Germany; Posts: 12681, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: Le Chef

Re: Really?

Quote:
Le Chef said:
I don't find the 997s lacking in torque at all. I also think it's the easiest car with a stick shift I've ever driven. The clutch is light and the gearbox is precise. I can't think of much that would improve it.

It easily handles hill starts that are the equivalent of the hills in Bath, Hampstead Village or Richmond Hill

The clutch of the 997S surely isn't too heavy, but I wouldn't call it light either. There are easier stick-shift cars, for example most BMWs.
Nevertheless the 997S is a very precise instrument.

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Mar 7, 2007 11:57:35 PM

edz: Rennteam Pro; Loc: South Orange County; Posts: 2022, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 11, 2005; Reply to: Le Chef

Re: Really?

Quote:
Le Chef said:
I don't find the 997s lacking in torque at all. I also think it's the easiest car with a stick shift I've ever driven. The clutch is light and the gearbox is precise. I can't think of much that would improve it.

It easily handles hill starts that are the equivalent of the hills in Bath, Hampstead Village or Richmond Hill

I agree %100. I had a 911 C2 Turbo, and that car was a bitch to drive comparing to my C2S.

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Mar 8, 2007 1:02:38 AM

Porky Tokyo: Senior; Loc: Tokyo, Japan; Posts: 617, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 8, 2005; Reply to: edz

Re: Really?

Actually I personally find the clutch and shift incredibly light but the Mrs preferred the boxster and the 996.

Meanwhile, I drove a 550 Maranello the other day - that was a nice and easy clutch and so much torque you could pull away in third!

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Mar 8, 2007 10:28:16 AM

beltar: Veteran; Loc: belgium , Belgium; Posts: 1232, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 15, 2005; Reply to: Porky Tokyo

Re: Really?

After having driven a 965 (3.3 turbo), a 993 targa, 996cab and now the 997S cab my wife loves driving the recent p-cars. The old 965 was horrific...like a lorry clutch.
She always pretends she doesn't like the p-car (too much money involved), but when sunny, she lets the family car in the box...and drives open.
On-topic: she's a very good driver , drives slowly with a cold engine, secures a gap between wheels and pavement while parking...

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Mar 8, 2007 10:34:57 AM

easy_rider911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 22190, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 8, 2004; Reply to: Porky Tokyo

Re: Really?

FWIW, my 2 cents:

Yes, I think the gearbox of the 997S is beautifully precise and crisp. I don't have the XCZ short shifter because, although I liked the shorter throws, I found it too notchy for my taste. In winter, it takes ages to warm up and become (a little) less notchy plus my car is RHD so I'm operating the gear lever with my left arm. It's much less strong than my right arm.

I find the clutch light and easy to operate. It doesn't make me feel tired even on long drives in traffic.

My only 2 complaint are that (1) sometimes, when at a standstill, it's difficult to put the car into 1st gear. The solution is simple. I never force it. I simply move the lever so that I am nearly putting it into 2nd gear then I put it into 1st gear. Easy. (2) I think below 2000rpm, the 997S develops too little torque. It is slow to pull away from a standstill with low revs. It needs higher revs which I don't like doing from a standstill. Those of you who haven't driven a 997S with X51 won't know the difference. Those who have will know what I mean.

I attach a graph showing the way the X51 produces so much more torque below 2500rpm.

I still stall my car occasionally but I would rather do this than have the smell of burnt clutch. That happens to me in bumper-to-bumper traffic very rarely only.

No, my wife doesn't drive it. It's a manual and she has an automatic licence.

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Mar 8, 2007 3:18:38 PM

donkeyman: Junior; Loc: Hong Kong; Posts: 113, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 16, 2005; Reply to: easy_rider911

Re: Really?

There was a story in the paper today about a guy who crashed his brother's Bugatti Veyron. Family gatherings are going to be much more interesting now...

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Mar 9, 2007 11:01:39 PM

Porky Tokyo: Senior; Loc: Tokyo, Japan; Posts: 617, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 8, 2005; Reply to: donkeyman

Re: Really?

One of brothers smashed one of my cars - drove straight into another car at a set of lights! LOL - he was just pulling away and the dude in front decided to stop! front bumper replacement damage only

Another car I leant to my other brother and it came back with a nasty scratch on the bumper - said it wasn't him but his car had the same scratch at the same place LOL - oh well, I guess goes with being the older brother!

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Mar 10, 2007 11:27:15 AM

function_analysi: Pilot; Loc: Jeddah, Athens , Greece; Posts: 352, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 19, 2006; Reply to: easy_rider911

Re: Really?

I definitely love my 911C2S and I am always there to excuse several engineering flaws yet there are some other times when I unintentionally compare it with my 350Z engine. No offence guys, but your Japanese neighbors Porky have done excellent job. The Jap engine feels incredibly better than my C2S unit as it is about 0,3 lt smaller but massively delivers its torque right away from idle speed. (For sure it goes the other way at speeds of 5k+, where the C2S engine breaths and works far more efficiently).

Name the gear, engage it in the 350Z cream-of-the-creep box (short shifter comes as standard) and the 350Z starts pulling over with no stalls at all. Some times, when I don't wanna drive fast I start in 2nd, change after 50m in 4th and then again in 6th that the engine seems to be able to cope with it from as low as 40 km/h.

My wife would love it -if she was to share my passion for cars. For the time being she drives a Easytronic gearbox.

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Mar 10, 2007 2:28:19 PM

function_analysi: Pilot; Loc: Jeddah, Athens , Greece; Posts: 352, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 19, 2006; Reply to: function_analysi

Re: Really?

MEA CULPA
Instead of 'cream-of-the-creep' pls read 'cream-of-the-crop'

Thanks!

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Mar 10, 2007 3:55:59 PM

Porky Tokyo: Senior; Loc: Tokyo, Japan; Posts: 617, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 8, 2005; Reply to: function_analysi

Re: Really?

Quote:
function_analysi said:
I definitely love my 911C2S and I am always there to excuse several engineering flaws yet there are some other times when I unintentionally compare it with my 350Z engine. No offence guys, but your Japanese neighbors Porky have done excellent job. The Jap engine feels incredibly better than my C2S unit as it is about 0,3 lt smaller but massively delivers its torque right away from idle speed. (For sure it goes the other way at speeds of 5k+, where the C2S engine breaths and works far more efficiently).

Name the gear, engage it in the 350Z cream-of-the-creep box (short shifter comes as standard) and the 350Z starts pulling over with no stalls at all. Some times, when I don't wanna drive fast I start in 2nd, change after 50m in 4th and then again in 6th that the engine seems to be able to cope with it from as low as 40 km/h.

My wife would love it -if she was to share my passion for cars. For the time being she drives a Easytronic gearbox.

The Japs are quite proud of the 350z - even a lot of foreigners here buy it. I have never driven it but have to say - might go for a test drive sometime.

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Mar 11, 2007 4:45:32 PM

donkeyman: Junior; Loc: Hong Kong; Posts: 113, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 16, 2005; Reply to: Porky Tokyo

Re: Really?

Wait till Nissan releases the next GTR - if it lives up to the hype then it will be something special.

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Mar 11, 2007 9:00:21 PM

Porky Tokyo: Senior; Loc: Tokyo, Japan; Posts: 617, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 8, 2005; Reply to: donkeyman

Re: Really?

Actually, more than the GTR the next NSX is getting people excited here

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Mar 14, 2007 11:36:18 AM

charliepug: Co-Pilot; Loc: Australia; Posts: 227, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 15, 2005; Reply to: easy_rider911

Re: Really?

Quote:
easy_rider911 said:
FWIW, my 2 cents:

Yes, I think the gearbox of the 997S is beautifully precise and crisp. I don't have the XCZ short shifter because, although I liked the shorter throws, I found it too notchy for my taste. In winter, it takes ages to warm up and become (a little) less notchy plus my car is RHD so I'm operating the gear lever with my left arm. It's much less strong than my right arm.

I find the clutch light and easy to operate. It doesn't make me feel tired even on long drives in traffic.

My only 2 complaint are that (1) sometimes, when at a standstill, it's difficult to put the car into 1st gear. The solution is simple. I never force it. I simply move the lever so that I am nearly putting it into 2nd gear then I put it into 1st gear. Easy. (2) I think below 2000rpm, the 997S develops too little torque. It is slow to pull away from a standstill with low revs. It needs higher revs which I don't like doing from a standstill. Those of you who haven't driven a 997S with X51 won't know the difference. Those who have will know what I mean.

I attach a graph showing the way the X51 produces so much more torque below 2500rpm.

I still stall my car occasionally but I would rather do this than have the smell of burnt clutch. That happens to me in bumper-to-bumper traffic very rarely only.

No, my wife doesn't drive it. It's a manual and she has an automatic licence.

Easy-rider, I completely agree with the torque "hole" under 2000rpms, my broken-in 997S feels slow compared to some of the Aussie V8's when accelerating say from 40/50kph to 120+.
My wife has driven manual cars since she obtained her licence and she refuses to drive my 997S as she's stalled it a few times inslow traffic

think she's too gentle with the loud pedal.... contemplating the X51 though

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Mar 14, 2007 6:10:53 PM

Leawood911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Kansas, USA , United States; Posts: 6920, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 29, 2006; Reply to: function_analysi

Re: Really?

Quote:
function_analysi said:
I definitely love my 911C2S and I am always there to excuse several engineering flaws yet there are some other times when I unintentionally compare it with my 350Z engine. No offence guys, but your Japanese neighbors Porky have done excellent job. The Jap engine feels incredibly better than my C2S unit as it is about 0,3 lt smaller but massively delivers its torque right away from idle speed. (For sure it goes the other way at speeds of 5k+, where the C2S engine breaths and works far more efficiently).

Name the gear, engage it in the 350Z cream-of-the-creep box (short shifter comes as standard) and the 350Z starts pulling over with no stalls at all. Some times, when I don't wanna drive fast I start in 2nd, change after 50m in 4th and then again in 6th that the engine seems to be able to cope with it from as low as 40 km/h.

My wife would love it -if she was to share my passion for cars. For the time being she drives a Easytronic gearbox.

My Wife drives a new G35 w/6speed. It is even more powerful than the 350Z and weighs about the same if not less. I agree that the engine has low end balls but after 5K it totally chokes and dies. There is no more acceleration left after 5K. IMHO that makes that engine 'agricultural' like my 16 year old daughters V6 Mustang. Personally I think Nissan/Infinity totally missed the boat in this regard. Who wants a sports car that runs out of steam at 5K (falls on it's face after that)?

I like my 997S cause it pulls and pulls until the limiter stops it. Not certain if you even need a limiter on that Z car.

I know the Z 3.5 liter engine is nice (I did buy one for my wife after all) but I NEVER want a Porsche motor with such character! I would also be willing to bet that the Porsche motor has more torque along the entire rev band it is just that there is SO much more on the top end of the Porsche that the low end seems more noticeable. I have always felt that this is one of the reasons the Porsche gets such good traction - it delivers the power in a manner that lets the tires 'keep up' but with an ever-increasing violence rather than a 'Big push' followed by increased WHEEZING.

Cheers,
Drive Right

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Mar 14, 2007 6:56:59 PM

69bossnine: Rennteam Pro; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 2028, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2005; Reply to: Leawood911

Re: Really?

My dad was pretty good about trusting me... Although, remembering some of the moments I had behind the wheel, maybe he was too trusting... But I never bent any metal..

My stepdad would toss me the keys to his '76 Turbo Carrera packing a full-race, wastegate set at 2.5 bar, 934 race engine straight out of a wrecked Brumos car... Talk about understeer under acceleration!! The car would practically lift the wheels at 80 mph.. I don't know what he was thinking, but I never bent that car either...

My daughters are both small, 5 & 2. I've got a 15-year old stepdaughter, and her driving aptitude is, well, just awful. It doesn't come naturally to her whatsoever. She won't be driving anything of mine, and she understands how bad she is such that she has no DESIRE to take responsibility for one of my cars.

My wife drives the 997S every once in awhile... But it's not her cup of tea, she's more of a convertible SL lover...

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Mar 14, 2007 10:09:36 PM

Porky Tokyo: Senior; Loc: Tokyo, Japan; Posts: 617, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 8, 2005; Reply to: 69bossnine

Re: Really?

Quote:
69bossnine said:
My dad was pretty good about trusting me... Although, remembering some of the moments I had behind the wheel, maybe he was too trusting... But I never bent any metal..

My stepdad would toss me the keys to his '76 Turbo Carrera packing a full-race, wastegate set at 2.5 bar, 934 race engine straight out of a wrecked Brumos car... Talk about understeer under acceleration!! The car would practically lift the wheels at 80 mph.. I don't know what he was thinking, but I never bent that car either...

My daughters are both small, 5 & 2. I've got a 15-year old stepdaughter, and her driving aptitude is, well, just awful. It doesn't come naturally to her whatsoever. She won't be driving anything of mine, and she understands how bad she is such that she has no DESIRE to take responsibility for one of my cars.

My wife drives the 997S every once in awhile... But it's not her cup of tea, she's more of a convertible SL lover...

Respect for your father and step-father. My friends lent me their cars when i was younger - 944 and 928 - this is back when they were brand new. Made a life changing impact on my life! Still love Porsches! Lucky it wasn't a Ferrari or something I guess!

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