Crown

Quote:
DavidSF said:

Quote:
nberry said:
Raz wrote

"Nick, by no means am I trying to come down on you. I find a lot of value in your posts and I do agree with you on some issues, I just feel the need to offer balance to the discussion "

Raz as I do your's. I suspect your more of a car fan since your able to find merit in most cars. I no not.

I have own Porsche's when they were special and unique. The 911 stood on its own. Today, I cannot find any specialness or passion when a 911 looks like a Boxster, Cayman or even a SUV Cayenne. Though it performs well, it has no other redeeming attributes. I can find many cars for less cost that meets that criteria.

David, your right. I cannot afford most cars. And I certainly cannot afford a Porsche given its huge depreciation tendencies.

I didn't say most sports cars. Are you putting Ferrari in the same league as most sports cars? I said you can't afford to drive your Ferrari. If you drove your Ferrari as much as a Porsche, the depreciation would be worse!

David

I agree, it is a shame having that beautiful car sitting there in the garage waiting to be driven, especially with the nice weather most of the time. If I had one here, I would drive the crap out of it, but that's me.
My TT has 11000 miles on it and I already ordered my first set of rear tires. I could not care less if the car I bought 8 months ago is 10 or 20k less now. Just enjoy it, it is only a car .

Quote:
aah986 said:

I agree, it is a shame having that beautiful car sitting there in the garage waiting to be driven

Nah, doesn't matter. Just think of the joy it might provide some deserving guy a few decades into the future! Gotta do our part and keep the number of future incredible "barn-finds" greater than zero.

Nick ,

I agree you mostly. Especially about the 996TT vs 360 Modena. Pretty sure 996 TT is faster and stable than 360 Modena but it has some missing things. For example i wanna give example from me , i was a 996 C4S owner and i relly like my excar but my mind was at 360 modena at that days. Because 996 TT is not more than "" a faster 996 C4S"" But when stop at lights its idling sound , cruising sound also revving up sound was incredible. But of course 996TT is the best performance car at that days(2002-2004). Anyways because of this reason, i didnt buy a new porsche after selling C4S.

DavidSF,

I agree the part about some people their Ferrari as da,ly drive because money is not issue for them. Yes that's right but this is not also related about Ferrari. If i were a prince UAE or Brunei, i would like to drive Saleen S7 or Pagani Zonda for shopping.(Of course kidding but example for the point) Most of Ferrari owners do not use their daily cars one for depreciation, second for the car is not suitable for daily car. The car is not built for daily drive. For example you stuck in a high traffic, and after a while you can feel the burn clutch smell. It happen on me sometimes with my G when in traffic. And there are many issues like this. But in Porsche i dont care weather , traffic or anything else on road.

It's like this. Just think you have 2 good brand suits. You wear #1 suit everyday when you go to work. And you wear #2 suit on some specialy meetings and days. Because it is only built for special meetings. They are both suits but for different tastes.

And i think real Porsche owners' taste is to drive their car daily and in every conditions. I respect their oppinion and this is their taste. Porsche can be driven as a daily car because it is really solid. One of the solid cars that i ve bought and pretty sure much solid than any Ferrari, Lamborghini...

Anyway but i dont see any Porsche owner complaning about the company strategy. I made search starthing from 3 weeks ago. In last three weeks the weather was pretty good except this week. I count all Porsche, Ferrari , Lambo models here.
I did not count Cayenne or Boxster, just counted any 993,996,997 and Cayman from Porsche, counted all models of F and Lambo.
Result was P:20, F:5 L:1. (boxster and cayenne not included)

Guys dont you annoyed about there are a lot of Porsche's on street? You all have specail cars.
I mean when i got my C4S there are not so many Porsche's on streets but in last 3 years i ve seen a lot P cars on street. Porsche's are special cars and imo Germany's #1 car. But i ve seen 997 Carrera/Carrera S , more than the sum of number of Merc SL55 and BMW M5/6.

Imo in last 4 years Porsche is becoming like BMW. Not comparing the cars exactly but they are in same class.They have similar performance, price etc. They both have SUV , both have very fast cars (ex: M6, 997TT), both have roadsters(Boxster,Z4), small coupes(Cayman,Z4M Coupe) and now a 4door saloon is on the wat for Porsche. I really wonder what will they do at 2010.( A compact class sport car a rival for Audi S3 or a very huge saloon ???)

After these strategies may effect Porsche's speciality negatively. And porsche is making no progress as ""a Porsche"", just developing like a BMW or Audi or Merc in same strategies..
Porsche need to produce more Carrera GT type of cars. Maybe not at that price or 600+hp 350k USD, but slower than CGT cheaper than CGT. Wouldnt be good???

Quote:
aah986 said:

Quote:
DavidSF said:

Quote:
nberry said:
Raz wrote

"Nick, by no means am I trying to come down on you. I find a lot of value in your posts and I do agree with you on some issues, I just feel the need to offer balance to the discussion "

Raz as I do your's. I suspect your more of a car fan since your able to find merit in most cars. I no not.

I have own Porsche's when they were special and unique. The 911 stood on its own. Today, I cannot find any specialness or passion when a 911 looks like a Boxster, Cayman or even a SUV Cayenne. Though it performs well, it has no other redeeming attributes. I can find many cars for less cost that meets that criteria.

David, your right. I cannot afford most cars. And I certainly cannot afford a Porsche given its huge depreciation tendencies.

I didn't say most sports cars. Are you putting Ferrari in the same league as most sports cars? I said you can't afford to drive your Ferrari. If you drove your Ferrari as much as a Porsche, the depreciation would be worse!

David

I agree, it is a shame having that beautiful car sitting there in the garage waiting to be driven, especially with the nice weather most of the time. If I had one here, I would drive the crap out of it, but that's me.
My TT has 11000 miles on it and I already ordered my first set of rear tires. I could not care less if the car I bought 8 months ago is 10 or 20k less now. Just enjoy it, it is only a car .

I have over 7000 miles on my 430. I took delivery in Dec. 2005. It does not sit in the garage.

Keep in my mind that ordinary does not generate passion.

A vehicle that is faster than 99.9% of the cars out there, (including your F430) can be a four season car and costs north of 123K US is ordinary? Hardly.

Quote:
nberry said:

Quote:
aah986 said:

Quote:
DavidSF said:

Quote:
nberry said:
Raz wrote

"Nick, by no means am I trying to come down on you. I find a lot of value in your posts and I do agree with you on some issues, I just feel the need to offer balance to the discussion "

Raz as I do your's. I suspect your more of a car fan since your able to find merit in most cars. I no not.

I have own Porsche's when they were special and unique. The 911 stood on its own. Today, I cannot find any specialness or passion when a 911 looks like a Boxster, Cayman or even a SUV Cayenne. Though it performs well, it has no other redeeming attributes. I can find many cars for less cost that meets that criteria.

David, your right. I cannot afford most cars. And I certainly cannot afford a Porsche given its huge depreciation tendencies.

I didn't say most sports cars. Are you putting Ferrari in the same league as most sports cars? I said you can't afford to drive your Ferrari. If you drove your Ferrari as much as a Porsche, the depreciation would be worse!

David

I agree, it is a shame having that beautiful car sitting there in the garage waiting to be driven, especially with the nice weather most of the time. If I had one here, I would drive the crap out of it, but that's me.
My TT has 11000 miles on it and I already ordered my first set of rear tires. I could not care less if the car I bought 8 months ago is 10 or 20k less now. Just enjoy it, it is only a car .

I have over 7000 miles on my 430. I took delivery in Dec. 2005. It does not sit in the garage.

Keep in my mind that ordinary does not generate passion.

Ordinary doesn't generate passion? I know several Miata owners, a S2000 owner, and a guy that owns a Datsun 510 that has more passion about their cars than you do about your Ferrari. You should try going to their club meetings. They're just as into their cars as the guys at Ferrari club meetings. It's very condescending of you to think that exclusivity, price, and how many people stare at your car are requirements for passion. On the other hand, that doesn't surprise me. It's really sad though that you can't appreciate the simple things in life and find enjoyment in ordinary things. It's even sadder that you can't understand how most people can have passion and appreciation for something that isn't exclusive or cost a fortune or get stares from onlookers. Quite a sad way to live life, if you ask me.

David

Quote:
VGA18 said:
Nick ,

I agree you mostly. Especially about the 996TT vs 360 Modena. Pretty sure 996 TT is faster and stable than 360 Modena but it has some missing things. For example i wanna give example from me , i was a 996 C4S owner and i relly like my excar but my mind was at 360 modena at that days. Because 996 TT is not more than "" a faster 996 C4S"" But when stop at lights its idling sound , cruising sound also revving up sound was incredible. But of course 996TT is the best performance car at that days(2002-2004). Anyways because of this reason, i didnt buy a new porsche after selling C4S.

DavidSF,

I agree the part about some people their Ferrari as da,ly drive because money is not issue for them. Yes that's right but this is not also related about Ferrari. If i were a prince UAE or Brunei, i would like to drive Saleen S7 or Pagani Zonda for shopping.(Of course kidding but example for the point) Most of Ferrari owners do not use their daily cars one for depreciation, second for the car is not suitable for daily car. The car is not built for daily drive. For example you stuck in a high traffic, and after a while you can feel the burn clutch smell. It happen on me sometimes with my G when in traffic. And there are many issues like this. But in Porsche i dont care weather , traffic or anything else on road.

It's like this. Just think you have 2 good brand suits. You wear #1 suit everyday when you go to work. And you wear #2 suit on some specialy meetings and days. Because it is only built for special meetings. They are both suits but for different tastes.

And i think real Porsche owners' taste is to drive their car daily and in every conditions. I respect their oppinion and this is their taste. Porsche can be driven as a daily car because it is really solid. One of the solid cars that i ve bought and pretty sure much solid than any Ferrari, Lamborghini...

Anyway but i dont see any Porsche owner complaning about the company strategy. I made search starthing from 3 weeks ago. In last three weeks the weather was pretty good except this week. I count all Porsche, Ferrari , Lambo models here.
I did not count Cayenne or Boxster, just counted any 993,996,997 and Cayman from Porsche, counted all models of F and Lambo.
Result was P:20, F:5 L:1. (boxster and cayenne not included)

Guys dont you annoyed about there are a lot of Porsche's on street? You all have specail cars.
I mean when i got my C4S there are not so many Porsche's on streets but in last 3 years i ve seen a lot P cars on street. Porsche's are special cars and imo Germany's #1 car. But i ve seen 997 Carrera/Carrera S , more than the sum of number of Merc SL55 and BMW M5/6.

Imo in last 4 years Porsche is becoming like BMW. Not comparing the cars exactly but they are in same class.They have similar performance, price etc. They both have SUV , both have very fast cars (ex: M6, 997TT), both have roadsters(Boxster,Z4), small coupes(Cayman,Z4M Coupe) and now a 4door saloon is on the wat for Porsche. I really wonder what will they do at 2010.( A compact class sport car a rival for Audi S3 or a very huge saloon ???)

After these strategies may effect Porsche's speciality negatively. And porsche is making no progress as ""a Porsche"", just developing like a BMW or Audi or Merc in same strategies..
Porsche need to produce more Carrera GT type of cars. Maybe not at that price or 600+hp 350k USD, but slower than CGT cheaper than CGT. Wouldnt be good???

"The car is not built for daily drive." LOL. I wonder what Ferrari would tell you if you said Ferraris aren't built to be driven daily. Being unreliable or expensive to maintain doesn't mean a car wasn't built to be a daily driver. I can say most American cars from the 70s and 80s aren't meant to be daily drivers! LOL. The question is, can you afford tune-ups at regularly scheduled intervals and the occasional unscheduled malfunction? As for your suit analogy, rich people do in fact wear Armani suits everyday if they need to wear suit for their daily job.

David

Quote:
DavidSF said:

Ordinary doesn't generate passion? I know several Miata owners, a S2000 owner, and a guy that owns a Datsun 510 that has more passion about their cars than you do about your Ferrari. You should try going to their club meetings. They're just as into their cars as the guys at Ferrari club meetings. It's very condescending of you to think that exclusivity, price, and how many people stare at your car are requirements for passion. On the other hand, that doesn't surprise me. It's really sad though that you can't appreciate the simple things in life and find enjoyment in ordinary things. It's even sadder that you can't understand how most people can have passion and appreciation for something that isn't exclusive or cost a fortune or get stares from onlookers. Quite a sad way to live life, if you ask me.

David

Well said David

"Ordinary does not generate passion"? What? I just can't believe anybody could say such utter nonsense without looking an absolute fool.

So is an ordinary man simply unable to generate any passion in the heart of his wife? Few marriages would last more than a few months if this were true.

Simply stated, passion is a totally individual reaction to something. That 'something' doesn't need to be special to other people at large. It just needs to be special in the eyes of the person in whom it arouses that passion. Surely this must be obvious?

There are literally millions of people out there who feel great passion for their automobiles. It doesn't need to be a Ferrari or a Lamborghini for them to feel that passion. To think otherwise is tantamount to saying only people who can afford an exotic car can be admitted to the passion 'club'. How ridiculous!

It's simply staggering how some people can think they are correct in making sweeping assertions which have no foundation and which, in this case, expose them to sheer ridicule.

Persisting in arguing in favour of such absurd statements IMO shows a real lack of sincerity for the truth. This sadly leads me to conclude that, for me, it really is futile to discuss such matters with such people.

To me, Ferrari's are built to look awesome and to perform great. That is the passion of the engineers and designers. Porsches are built to Perform perfect, and to look like a descendant of the 901. That is the passion of porsche engineers and designers.
To me, a porsche appeals more, because I love the classic 911 lines, and as an engineer, I love the perfection of the mechanics. So, for me, a porsche has tons of passion, I get crazy whenever I see a 964 or a 944 turbo... I am sure there are some people on this planet who feel the same about ferrari's. Therefore, when an automotive journalist starts about feelings like passion, I skip the rest of the article, 'cause it shows to me that he is not objective anymore, and tries to put his emotions in the comparison.
Emotions are great in an automotive article, but not in a comparison.
-Joost-

Passion is obviously subjective, but personally, I find the engineering of the Porsche most fascinating.

How can I not be passionate about the 997 turbo, I feel they're making the car just for me, effortless speed in all weather condition, reliability and safety, lots of gadgets and electronics making a better driver out of me, hey it even has seats for my baby girls!

Joost, W211,

I couldn't agree more. Those that really are passionate about Porsche are usually technically inclined (engineers), we appreciate the engineering that Porsche has applied to these cars, and especially the legacy of the 911.

Mike

This is why I have passion for our Porsche engines. The closest thing you can get to a Swiss watch that hits 7000 rpm and pumps out hundreds of HP. WOW. (German-made watch shown)

---

Passion according to the Oxfold dictionary (btw, wasn't easy rider who tried to impress us with is Cambridge/Oxford lineage?)

"strong barely controllable emotion, a state or outburst of such emotion"

Now those of you who believe ordinary generate passion then you have a very serious pychological problem and need immediate help.

Quote:
DavidSF said:

Quote:
VGA18 said:
Nick ,

I agree you mostly. Especially about the 996TT vs 360 Modena. Pretty sure 996 TT is faster and stable than 360 Modena but it has some missing things. For example i wanna give example from me , i was a 996 C4S owner and i relly like my excar but my mind was at 360 modena at that days. Because 996 TT is not more than "" a faster 996 C4S"" But when stop at lights its idling sound , cruising sound also revving up sound was incredible. But of course 996TT is the best performance car at that days(2002-2004). Anyways because of this reason, i didnt buy a new porsche after selling C4S.

DavidSF,

I agree the part about some people their Ferrari as da,ly drive because money is not issue for them. Yes that's right but this is not also related about Ferrari. If i were a prince UAE or Brunei, i would like to drive Saleen S7 or Pagani Zonda for shopping.(Of course kidding but example for the point) Most of Ferrari owners do not use their daily cars one for depreciation, second for the car is not suitable for daily car. The car is not built for daily drive. For example you stuck in a high traffic, and after a while you can feel the burn clutch smell. It happen on me sometimes with my G when in traffic. And there are many issues like this. But in Porsche i dont care weather , traffic or anything else on road.

It's like this. Just think you have 2 good brand suits. You wear #1 suit everyday when you go to work. And you wear #2 suit on some specialy meetings and days. Because it is only built for special meetings. They are both suits but for different tastes.

And i think real Porsche owners' taste is to drive their car daily and in every conditions. I respect their oppinion and this is their taste. Porsche can be driven as a daily car because it is really solid. One of the solid cars that i ve bought and pretty sure much solid than any Ferrari, Lamborghini...

Anyway but i dont see any Porsche owner complaning about the company strategy. I made search starthing from 3 weeks ago. In last three weeks the weather was pretty good except this week. I count all Porsche, Ferrari , Lambo models here.
I did not count Cayenne or Boxster, just counted any 993,996,997 and Cayman from Porsche, counted all models of F and Lambo.
Result was P:20, F:5 L:1. (boxster and cayenne not included)

Guys dont you annoyed about there are a lot of Porsche's on street? You all have specail cars.
I mean when i got my C4S there are not so many Porsche's on streets but in last 3 years i ve seen a lot P cars on street. Porsche's are special cars and imo Germany's #1 car. But i ve seen 997 Carrera/Carrera S , more than the sum of number of Merc SL55 and BMW M5/6.

Imo in last 4 years Porsche is becoming like BMW. Not comparing the cars exactly but they are in same class.They have similar performance, price etc. They both have SUV , both have very fast cars (ex: M6, 997TT), both have roadsters(Boxster,Z4), small coupes(Cayman,Z4M Coupe) and now a 4door saloon is on the wat for Porsche. I really wonder what will they do at 2010.( A compact class sport car a rival for Audi S3 or a very huge saloon ???)

After these strategies may effect Porsche's speciality negatively. And porsche is making no progress as ""a Porsche"", just developing like a BMW or Audi or Merc in same strategies..
Porsche need to produce more Carrera GT type of cars. Maybe not at that price or 600+hp 350k USD, but slower than CGT cheaper than CGT. Wouldnt be good???

"The car is not built for daily drive." LOL. I wonder what Ferrari would tell you if you said Ferraris aren't built to be driven daily. Being unreliable or expensive to maintain doesn't mean a car wasn't built to be a daily driver. I can say most American cars from the 70s and 80s aren't meant to be daily drivers! LOL. The question is, can you afford tune-ups at regularly scheduled intervals and the occasional unscheduled malfunction? As for your suit analogy, rich people do in fact wear Armani suits everyday if they need to wear suit for their daily job.

David

Man i do not understand what point you want to get into. I mean a man afford Ferrari and Lambo or Pagani or anything else, that is sure he can afford the maintance and service work. But why do i have to use a Ferrari daily and wear it down, when i have 2 perfect different cars as daily use. You generalize the situation. Everything has a different type of use. You may not accept it but thats the real point imo

Quote:
nberry said:


Now those of you who believe ordinary generate passion then you have a very serious pychological problem and need immediate help.

Buddhists are very passionate about the ordinary and mundane. They use it to achieve Enlightenment. They are the kindest and most inspired people I have ever met.

The ordinary can the source of the greatest joy (er..., I mean "passion..., whatever... )

If they are passionate, they are not Buddhist.

Quote:
nberry said:
If they are passionate, they are not Buddhist.

Yeah, you're probably right; good observation.

BTW, come to think of it "passionate" people often start to become a PITA if you spend too much time with them (all Rennteamers excluded of course). So it's probably much better if everybody else sticks with the ordinary.

Quote:
VGA18 said:

Man i do not understand what point you want to get into. I mean a man afford Ferrari and Lambo or Pagani or anything else, that is sure he can afford the maintance and service work. But why do i have to use a Ferrari daily and wear it down, when i have 2 perfect different cars as daily use. You generalize the situation. Everything has a different type of use. You may not accept it but thats the real point imo

Driving a Ferrari around is one of the easiest way to let people think one is rich, whether one is really rich or just pretending to be rich is a different story. There really are people who will sink every single penny they own in order to get into a Ferrari, just for showing off. I have know people whose cars are worth more than their appartments, not normal but there are people like that.

Quote:
Whoopsy said:

Quote:
VGA18 said:

Man i do not understand what point you want to get into. I mean a man afford Ferrari and Lambo or Pagani or anything else, that is sure he can afford the maintance and service work. But why do i have to use a Ferrari daily and wear it down, when i have 2 perfect different cars as daily use. You generalize the situation. Everything has a different type of use. You may not accept it but thats the real point imo

Driving a Ferrari around is one of the easiest way to let people think one is rich, whether one is really rich or just pretending to be rich is a different story. There really are people who will sink every single penny they own in order to get into a Ferrari, just for showing off. I have know people whose cars are worth more than their appartments, not normal but there are people like that.

Nope, according to Nick, Ferraris are free

Quote:
Whoopsy said:

Quote:
VGA18 said:

Man i do not understand what point you want to get into. I mean a man afford Ferrari and Lambo or Pagani or anything else, that is sure he can afford the maintance and service work. But why do i have to use a Ferrari daily and wear it down, when i have 2 perfect different cars as daily use. You generalize the situation. Everything has a different type of use. You may not accept it but thats the real point imo

Driving a Ferrari around is one of the easiest way to let people think one is rich, whether one is really rich or just pretending to be rich is a different story. There really are people who will sink every single penny they own in order to get into a Ferrari, just for showing off. I have know people whose cars are worth more than their appartments, not normal but there are people like that.

About a year ago, the LA times ran an article making the same point....BUT ABOUT PORSCHE ONWERS. If anything the situation is worst with Porsche's because almost anyone can get and afford one (it seems like everyone owns one in S. Calf. ) given the present US credit/leasing requirements. That certainly is not the case with Ferrari or Lambo.

Exactly my point, Porsche are almost as common as Honda in California, people don't really notice them anymore, but Ferrari and Lambo are a different story. The pretenders have a better chance of success in driving a Ferrari/Lambo as people don't normally suspect they are posers if they are driving a Ferrari/Lambo.

There is a certain mystique in owning a Ferrari and Lambo that Porsche don't have. In most people's scale, Porsche is still one below Ferrari/Lambo.

If I were a gold digger chick in a nightclub trying to decide which guy I want to leave with, the Ferrari/Lambo camp is more that likely to win out than the Porsche camp.

So passion only comes from exclusivity and rarity according to a few here... using the same logic... only Tom Brady whose ex is Bridgette Monahan and is currently dating Giselle can ever hope to have passion and guys dating and married to 6s and 7s instead of 9s and 10s might as well give up because they will never passion... hehe

I didn't talk about passion, just perception.

Passion for a car has nothing to do with the price tag or exclusiveness.

There are people who are passionate about their Kias, Hondas, Miatas, Porsches, Ferraris and Lambos. It's about how a car can meet the owner's needs, makes him feel good in a car.

My previous posts were about other people's perception of one's richness, not one's passions. Somehow I don't think a gold digger is going to be passionate about anything but money. The passion/affection towards the owner of the car is there just so she can get to what she perceives to be on the other side of him, he's just a 'thing' standing between her and her target.

You guys might re-think "everybody" can afford a Porsche. You've been drinking too many us$5 cafe lattes. You see alot in places where things are prosperous. You see virtually none elsewhere.

When I see a Ferrari I think like this:

He's at the income level of a rock star or movie star. His lifestyle also includes chartered jets, a couple of homes, personal assistants. Bought the Ferrari because it's what you do when you are very rich, conspicuous, and ego-oriented.

OR-

He bought it pre-owned because the price was within reach ("besides you only live once and gotta grab for the gusto").
He's at the point or soon will be at the point where the maintenance and repair bills add up and become an obscene waste for his financial planning situation. He will then unload the car, at a big loss, and some new similarly-monied guy will come along and buy it because "the [purchase] price was in reach."

OR-

He's a guy who really enjoys cars, has the money, and isn't bothered by the extreme costs associated with the car.

Quote:
MMD said:
You guys might re-think "everybody" can afford a Porsche. You've been drinking too many us$5 cafe lattes. You see alot in places where things are prosperous. You see virtually none elsewhere.

When I see a Ferrari I think like this:

He's at the income level of a rock star or movie star. His lifestyle also includes chartered jets, a couple of homes, personal assistants. Bought the Ferrari because it's what you do when you are very rich, conspicuous, and ego-oriented.

OR-

He bought it pre-owned because the price was within reach ("besides you only live once and gotta grab for the gusto").
He's at the point or soon will be at the point where the maintenance and repair bills add up and become an obscene waste for his financial planning situation. He will then unload the car, at a big loss, and some new similarly-monied guy will come along and buy it because "the [purchase] price was in reach."

OR-

He's a guy who really enjoys cars, has the money, and isn't bothered by the extreme costs associated with the car.

OR- he's a guy like Nick.

David

Many Ferrari owners are very passionate about Porsches too. Look at the amount of time Nick Berry spends here. Obviously a closet Porsche turbo fan in denial.

Just took the 997TT up the mountain to have dinner with friends. Went through rain and snow. I simply cannot think of another car which can make my drive so enjoyable. Perhaps a Bentley CGT with its quiet and luxurious interior, but then, it'll be so cumbersome. I would actually have to break in the turns.

Quote:
Whoopsy said:
I didn't talk about passion, just perception.

Passion for a car has nothing to do with the price tag or exclusiveness.

There are people who are passionate about their Kias, Hondas, Miatas, Porsches, Ferraris and Lambos. It's about how a car can meet the owner's needs, makes him feel good in a car.

My previous posts were about other people's perception of one's richness, not one's passions.

Exactly.

But turning to the question of perception, I think the root cause of why some people in the US perceive a Porsche as being "ordinary" or less "special" when compared to a Ferrari and a Lamborghini is actually rather simple. It has nothing to do with its quality. It all comes down to price.

In the USA, the 997 C2 and the 997 C2S cost only US$72,400 and US$82,600 respectively plus these 'iconic' models have cheaper siblings in the Boxster and Cayman ranges. I assume these prices don't include state sales taxes and since these vary from state to state, it's best to compare tax-free prices.

UK prices for the 997 C2 and 997 C2S are GBP60,810 and GBP67860 respectively (including 17.5% VAT). UK prices (excluding VAT) are GBP51753 and GBP57753 respectively.

At today's exchange rate (GBP 1 = US$ 1.95), that's US$100,918 and US$112618 respectively. That's US$28518 and US$30018 more respectively i.e. 39% and 36% more respectively.

We need to bear in mind that the US spec is different from that in the UK (e.g. full leather isn't standard but one does get TPM, cruise control and a sunroof as standard in the US which one doesn't in the UK). Also, the value of the US dollar has been especially weak for some time.

Nonetheless, if the car is that much cheaper in the US compared to the UK and the rest of the EU, then surely this will affect (1) the perceptions of people in the US, (2) demand for the product will be higher, and (3) exclusivity will be lower.

When one considers that Ferraris and Lamborghinis are priced in the US like they are in the European market, it is no wonder that these are perceived differently, demand is less and exclusivity is greater. Plus the fact that numbers of Ferraris headed for the US are kept low necessarily exacerbates this situation.

Can you imagine how people in the US would perceive Porsches if prices in the US had always been like those in Europe?

Quote:
Whoopsy said:
Exactly my point, Porsche are almost as common as Honda in California, people don't really notice them anymore, but Ferrari and Lambo are a different story. The pretenders have a better chance of success in driving a Ferrari/Lambo as people don't normally suspect they are posers if they are driving a Ferrari/Lambo.

There is a certain mystique in owning a Ferrari and Lambo that Porsche don't have. In most people's scale, Porsche is still one below Ferrari/Lambo.

If I were a gold digger chick in a nightclub trying to decide which guy I want to leave with, the Ferrari/Lambo camp is more that likely to win out than the Porsche camp.

I once met a 'mama' and she said she teaches her girls to never trust a man driving a red or yellow car as they're all posers! I think gold diggers are getting more sophisticated these days.

Who do we all know of who previously had a red F430 coupe and now has a yellow F430 spyder?

Quote:
easy_rider911 said:
Who do we all know of who previously had a red F430 coupe and now has a yellow F430 spyder?

BTW, price is not the sole issue. One thing that makes Porsche's ordinary is that all look alike regardless of PRICE. For an example, the GT2 was priced at $180,000 and but for the huge silly tail on its deck, it had a very similar appearance to a base 911 priced at $60,000. The GT2 was a marketing disaster despite being one of the best performing cars on the street.

Recently, an automobile writer wrote only gearheads can tell the difference between any Porsche. Most cannot tell the difference between a 997 and 993.

However when all is said and done, Porsche continues to make a lot of maoney so they must knowing their customer base. Sell them a VW with a Porsche badge and they will come running with their wallets out.