Oct 23, 2006 3:20:44 PM
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- Loc: Bay Area California , United States
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- Registered on: Jan 11, 2006
- Reply to: bostonmini
Oct 23, 2006 3:20:44 PM
Oct 24, 2006 5:18:33 AM
Quote:
Tom G. said:
What if Ferrari 430 spiders and Carrera GT's were readily available in the market place. How would consumers value the 430 spider's relative to the Carrera GT's in such a market? Your answer is, look to the rest of the world. The "market value" of a 430 spider in the rest of the world is half the price of the Carrera GT.
Quote:
nberry said:Quote:
Tom G. said:
What if Ferrari 430 spiders and Carrera GT's were readily available in the market place. How would consumers value the 430 spider's relative to the Carrera GT's in such a market? Your answer is, look to the rest of the world. The "market value" of a 430 spider in the rest of the world is half the price of the Carrera GT.
There is a reason why knowledgeable people who buy and sell cars in the US place a low value on the the CGT. No one questions its perf. parameters but many question whether it is a car for public use. The Ferrari is just more fun to drive on a daily basis. When I drove the CGT, I always had a little sweat on my brow and I was totally immersed in driving the car within my limits because it was very easy to go beyond your limits in this car. And therein lies the difference between driving a 430 and a CGT.
Regarding maintenance cost you are mistaken in believing that the CGT costs are about the same as a Ferrari. The CGT cost will be much higher.
For an example, a clutch replacement will run about $20-25000. For a Ferrari $5000. At 20,000 miles the CGT will require a valve adjustment. The cost has not been determined but you can bet it will be very expensive since the engine will have to be removed and taken apart probably by a mechanic from Germany. The Ferrari has a 15,000 maintenance which will run about $1500.Also the CGT eats up tires and the costs will run about $2000 every 5000 miles.
The CGT is a super performance car but if perf. is what you want in a track environment a Porsche GT3 Cup car would be cheaper and faster with about the same maintenance costs.
Quote:
Hurst said:Quote:
nberry said:Quote:
Tom G. said:
What if Ferrari 430 spiders and Carrera GT's were readily available in the market place. How would consumers value the 430 spider's relative to the Carrera GT's in such a market? Your answer is, look to the rest of the world. The "market value" of a 430 spider in the rest of the world is half the price of the Carrera GT.
There is a reason why knowledgeable people who buy and sell cars in the US place a low value on the the CGT. No one questions its perf. parameters but many question whether it is a car for public use. The Ferrari is just more fun to drive on a daily basis. When I drove the CGT, I always had a little sweat on my brow and I was totally immersed in driving the car within my limits because it was very easy to go beyond your limits in this car. And therein lies the difference between driving a 430 and a CGT.
Regarding maintenance cost you are mistaken in believing that the CGT costs are about the same as a Ferrari. The CGT cost will be much higher.
For an example, a clutch replacement will run about $20-25000. For a Ferrari $5000. At 20,000 miles the CGT will require a valve adjustment. The cost has not been determined but you can bet it will be very expensive since the engine will have to be removed and taken apart probably by a mechanic from Germany. The Ferrari has a 15,000 maintenance which will run about $1500.Also the CGT eats up tires and the costs will run about $2000 every 5000 miles.
The CGT is a super performance car but if perf. is what you want in a track environment a Porsche GT3 Cup car would be cheaper and faster with about the same maintenance costs.
Unfortunately, your analysis is predicated on the fact that those who are financially enabled are always purists in terms of motorsporting.
This is hardly the case, I'm sure most of us are aware, when dubious poseurs drive around in their sports cars without any understanding of what they are capable of or what to do with them.
Saying the F430 is "more fun" to drive than the CGT because the CGT puts some "sweat on your brow" is laughable from a person in my position. Maybe its my age, but that's my take and I consider myself as a motorsporting purist...
The fact that the CGT goes beyond my limits is why I desire one more than any other car in the world. Life is about challenges not pushovers...
Just me
Quote:
Tom G. said:
What if Ferrari 430 spiders and Carrera GT's were readily available in the market place. How would consumers value the 430 spider's relative to the Carrera GT's in such a market? Your answer is, look to the rest of the world. The "market value" of a 430 spider in the rest of the world is half the price of the Carrera GT.
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LB said:Quote:
DavidSF said:
There's no comparison. The F430 Spyder is IMHO the worst looking $200k convertible car on the market. Consider these styling faults, and yes I've seen one in person:
1) ugly, hideous, front bumper.
2) weird, after-market looking humps.
3) cheap looking roll bars (not appropriate for a $200k convertible).
4) rice, tacky, clear engine cover with "Godzilla" vents along the sides.
5) rear diffuser looks after-market and not well integrated.
If you want to know what a $200k convertible should look like take a look at the Bently GTC and Lambo Gallardo Spyder. No weird humps or cheap roll bars. EVO in the September issue says the Gallardo Spyder is better than the F430 Spyder due to the F430 Spyder's styling deficients. It's a shame Ferrari is spitting on their customers' faces with these inferior looking cars because they know they can get away with it due to producing low volume. Ferrari won't last long if they continue to take advantage of their customers. Customers will soon stop buying such vulgar (EVO's words, not mine) cars as the F430 Spyder once other options (R8, new Esprit, etc) become more available.
Please consider the Gallardo Spyder instead of the F430 Spyder.
David
david with all honesty your opinion is not shared by many. The f430 spider is one of the nicest if not the nicest convertible on the market. Wherever i seem to park my car wether it be beside an slr cgt gallardo spider and murci roadster the f430 got most of the attention. Reason being many people seem to love its look
Quote:
dhayek said:Quote:
LB said:Quote:
DavidSF said:
There's no comparison. The F430 Spyder is IMHO the worst looking $200k convertible car on the market. Consider these styling faults, and yes I've seen one in person:
1) ugly, hideous, front bumper.
2) weird, after-market looking humps.
3) cheap looking roll bars (not appropriate for a $200k convertible).
4) rice, tacky, clear engine cover with "Godzilla" vents along the sides.
5) rear diffuser looks after-market and not well integrated.
If you want to know what a $200k convertible should look like take a look at the Bently GTC and Lambo Gallardo Spyder. No weird humps or cheap roll bars. EVO in the September issue says the Gallardo Spyder is better than the F430 Spyder due to the F430 Spyder's styling deficients. It's a shame Ferrari is spitting on their customers' faces with these inferior looking cars because they know they can get away with it due to producing low volume. Ferrari won't last long if they continue to take advantage of their customers. Customers will soon stop buying such vulgar (EVO's words, not mine) cars as the F430 Spyder once other options (R8, new Esprit, etc) become more available.
Please consider the Gallardo Spyder instead of the F430 Spyder.
David
david with all honesty your opinion is not shared by many. The f430 spider is one of the nicest if not the nicest convertible on the market. Wherever i seem to park my car wether it be beside an slr cgt gallardo spider and murci roadster the f430 got most of the attention. Reason being many people seem to love its look
more attention than a murci roadster, cgt, and slr??? come on...more than an enzo while you're at it?
Quote:
nberry said:Quote:
Hurst said:Quote:
nberry said:Quote:
Tom G. said:
What if Ferrari 430 spiders and Carrera GT's were readily available in the market place. How would consumers value the 430 spider's relative to the Carrera GT's in such a market? Your answer is, look to the rest of the world. The "market value" of a 430 spider in the rest of the world is half the price of the Carrera GT.
There is a reason why knowledgeable people who buy and sell cars in the US place a low value on the the CGT. No one questions its perf. parameters but many question whether it is a car for public use. The Ferrari is just more fun to drive on a daily basis. When I drove the CGT, I always had a little sweat on my brow and I was totally immersed in driving the car within my limits because it was very easy to go beyond your limits in this car. And therein lies the difference between driving a 430 and a CGT.
Regarding maintenance cost you are mistaken in believing that the CGT costs are about the same as a Ferrari. The CGT cost will be much higher.
For an example, a clutch replacement will run about $20-25000. For a Ferrari $5000. At 20,000 miles the CGT will require a valve adjustment. The cost has not been determined but you can bet it will be very expensive since the engine will have to be removed and taken apart probably by a mechanic from Germany. The Ferrari has a 15,000 maintenance which will run about $1500.Also the CGT eats up tires and the costs will run about $2000 every 5000 miles.
The CGT is a super performance car but if perf. is what you want in a track environment a Porsche GT3 Cup car would be cheaper and faster with about the same maintenance costs.
Unfortunately, your analysis is predicated on the fact that those who are financially enabled are always purists in terms of motorsporting.
This is hardly the case, I'm sure most of us are aware, when dubious poseurs drive around in their sports cars without any understanding of what they are capable of or what to do with them.
Saying the F430 is "more fun" to drive than the CGT because the CGT puts some "sweat on your brow" is laughable from a person in my position. Maybe its my age, but that's my take and I consider myself as a motorsporting purist...
The fact that the CGT goes beyond my limits is why I desire one more than any other car in the world. Life is about challenges not pushovers...
Just me
You should thank your lucky stars you are not able to afford one. Youth does have its advantages. Lack of wisdom and an inordinate amount of bravado.
Nov 6, 2006 11:01:20 PM
Quote:
bostonmini said:
sure hope the LSD is the solution, I cant imagine the 997 regressing when the base car and 4S etc are so good in the handling dept!
Quote:
dhayek said:Quote:
LB said:Quote:
DavidSF said:
There's no comparison. The F430 Spyder is IMHO the worst looking $200k convertible car on the market. Consider these styling faults, and yes I've seen one in person:
1) ugly, hideous, front bumper.
2) weird, after-market looking humps.
3) cheap looking roll bars (not appropriate for a $200k convertible).
4) rice, tacky, clear engine cover with "Godzilla" vents along the sides.
5) rear diffuser looks after-market and not well integrated.
If you want to know what a $200k convertible should look like take a look at the Bently GTC and Lambo Gallardo Spyder. No weird humps or cheap roll bars. EVO in the September issue says the Gallardo Spyder is better than the F430 Spyder due to the F430 Spyder's styling deficients. It's a shame Ferrari is spitting on their customers' faces with these inferior looking cars because they know they can get away with it due to producing low volume. Ferrari won't last long if they continue to take advantage of their customers. Customers will soon stop buying such vulgar (EVO's words, not mine) cars as the F430 Spyder once other options (R8, new Esprit, etc) become more available.
Please consider the Gallardo Spyder instead of the F430 Spyder.
David
david with all honesty your opinion is not shared by many. The f430 spider is one of the nicest if not the nicest convertible on the market. Wherever i seem to park my car wether it be beside an slr cgt gallardo spider and murci roadster the f430 got most of the attention. Reason being many people seem to love its look
more attention than a murci roadster, cgt, and slr??? come on...more than an enzo while you're at it?
Nov 8, 2006 7:15:18 AM
Nov 8, 2006 8:23:14 PM
Quote:
silvershadow said:
I will go definitely for the CGT but as RC said the car is unbelievebly hard to drive.
I had the opportunity to follow one on the track few months ago and the driver was having a tough time to control it.
After a bunch of laps we stopped into the pits and i asked him: Hey what's wrong? and he simply replied..."i'm out of talent. This car is very demanding. Is incredibly easy to lose the rear and is, like every sportcar, very crispy and darty. I'm scared...." and he was not the last one of the row.....
Nov 8, 2006 8:51:20 PM
Quote:
silvershadow said:
I will go definitely for the CGT but as RC said the car is unbelievably hard to drive.
I had the opportunity to follow one on the track few months ago and the driver was having a tough time to control it.
After a bunch of laps we stopped into the pits and i asked him: Hey what's wrong? and he simply replied..."I'm out of talent. This car is very demanding. Is incredibly easy to lose the rear and is, like every sportcar, very crispy and darty. I'm scared...." and he was not the last one of the row.....
Quote:
W8MM:
The Carrera GT requires some adaptation to drive well, but I consider that part of its value. I wouldn't enjoy my seat time in it nearly as much if I were convinced I had nothing left to learn from it.
Quote:
nberry said:Quote:
silvershadow said:
I will go definitely for the CGT but as RC said the car is unbelievebly hard to drive.
I had the opportunity to follow one on the track few months ago and the driver was having a tough time to control it.
After a bunch of laps we stopped into the pits and i asked him: Hey what's wrong? and he simply replied..."i'm out of talent. This car is very demanding. Is incredibly easy to lose the rear and is, like every sportcar, very crispy and darty. I'm scared...." and he was not the last one of the row.....
I believe many owners have the same problem but refuse to openly acknowledge it. I have written that driving the CGT is always done with sweat on the brow. You just do not know when or if you will lose it. Driving it at speed is like playing Russian roulette.
Quote:
nberry said:
Mike good write up but it only reinforces what most people say about the car. It is a handful and even very skilled drivers could easily find themselves in the weeds despite being careful.
There is a considerable difference between respecting the power of a car and being able to manage it.
Nov 10, 2006 11:18:59 PM
Quote:
silvershadow said:
I will go definitely for the CGT but as RC said the car is unbelievebly hard to drive.
Quote:
RC said:Quote:
silvershadow said:
I will go definitely for the CGT but as RC said the car is unbelievebly hard to drive.
It isn't hard to drive...if you're a very skilled driver and if you're willing to LEARN. It is just a very dangerous car for beginners in my opinion and it is a car which does NOT make the driver faster, on the contrary. To benefit from the less weight, more powerful engine and the racecar-like behaviour, the driver has to be very skilled to be actually very fast in this car. Otherwise any halfway skilled 997 Turbo driver would bust his a.. on the track.
The CGT is a great car but the driver has to be great too, this isn't a car to play around with, this is a car you have to respect and to start to learn to control it at the limit. Take it as a challenge if you want. Some cars may actually allow drivers to be faster than they would be in other cars, the CGT is more of a purist car, it isn't too forgiving but if you know how to control it, it probably provides you with the best ride in your life.
Quote:
nberry said:
Mike wrote "Managing the power of a car is the direct result of respecting it, combined with knowledge of how it wants to be driven. Unless, of course, one is completely irresponsible or clueless. Is that your view of Carrera GT owners?"
I have never indicated that owners are clueless or irresponsible (though many probably do not have the necessary skill level for the car as it is configured). What I am saying is the car will bit you unexpectedly because of it handling characteristic's and power.When it does there usually is very little that an owner can do but expect the worse.
Amir you are right. I honestly don't know how the comparison between the 430 and CGT has even come up. I have driven both on several occasions and clearly the CGT is a much better performer. They are totally two different cars.