Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: Test drive both! - Page1

Oct 23, 2006 3:00:54 AM

sundiego: Newbie; Loc: san diego CA; Posts: 31, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 12, 2005

997 vs 997S, which to buy?

Okay, so I'm trying to decide on a standard 997 or the 997S. Of course I realize the S has the bigger motor, brakes, etc. but is there that much a difference between the two? I have not driven either personally but have riden in a 997S which was fantastic. Is there that much a difference? Price is important to me so my inclination is to go with the non-S 997. Any input or feedback is appreciated.

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Oct 23, 2006 4:02:49 AM

DougNY: Junior; Loc: New York City; Posts: 65, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 7, 2005; Reply to: sundiego

Re: 997 vs 997S, which to buy?

I have a non-S, and since I don't track, the power is more than adequate. Pushes me back in my seat. Corsers the same. I'm happy.

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Oct 23, 2006 4:13:56 AM

Hurst: Veteran; Loc: Potomac, MD; Posts: 1255, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 15, 2005; Reply to: DougNY

Re: 997 vs 997S, which to buy?

sundiego, you should realize what you want to do with the car. Is 30hp important to you? More importantly, is the upgrade of an m97 engine which is far superior to the m96 a deciding factor for you?

What will you be using the car for, what do you want to get out of it? These questions are vital for giving a valid response...

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Oct 23, 2006 4:27:13 AM

planenuts4speed: Co-Pilot; Loc: Tennessee , United States; Posts: 178, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 27, 2006; Reply to: DougNY

Re: 997 vs 997S, which to buy?

I believe that if you can afford the S you should get it. The additional features and HP I believe is worth the price difference. I have never heard of anyone who bought the S saying they wished they had bought the basic Carrera but people who have bought the basic will likely at some point desire the additional power and features they did not get. IMHO! And a majority of members on this site have the S over the basic--and that tells you something! BTW, there are plenty of previous threads on this subject to give you additional inputs. Good luck with your decision!

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Oct 23, 2006 5:59:36 AM

FLORENT KAVADAS: Co-Pilot; Loc: Corfu Greece; Posts: 264, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 22, 2006; Reply to: sundiego

Re: 997 vs 997S, which to buy?

Hi there!

The thing is if you thik about it that the S has three standards which are sharged as an extra on the simple 3.6 version at least here in Greece but I believe this is the case everywhere.
With the S you get standard xenon lights, Pasm or sports suspention with LSD(my preference) and 19'' wheels. Plus the 30 extra HP. Now dont tell me you are going to buy an 911 without any xenon headlights cause I dont think you will. Adding all this you see that the S is not a bad deal after all.

Go for the S.

Regards;

Florent

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Oct 23, 2006 11:00:33 AM

Oxonian: Pilot; Loc: Jeddah, Saudi Arabia; Posts: 488, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 28, 2005; Reply to: FLORENT KAVADAS

Re: 997 vs 997S, which to buy?

The base carrera has plenty of power. You may get the base carrera only if you don't add expensive options (i.e. xenon, pasm, etc...)

The S is feasible if you need the additional options.

Note that a facelift is due soon. You may want to wait for a few months.

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Oct 23, 2006 11:03:46 AM

Jeannot: Expert; Loc: Currently in Hong-Kong , Switzerland; Posts: 1745, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 13, 2005; Reply to: Oxonian

Re: 997 vs 997S, which to buy?

Agree. A base 997 does not make too much sense if you want some options which are in my mind must have on such a car.
I did not get the S for the 30hp...just because it's overall a better deal and also because there is hardly any base on the market and plenty of S....

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Oct 23, 2006 12:42:31 PM

Pentium: Rennteam Master; Loc: Earth , Romania; Posts: 3055, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 27, 2003; Reply to: sundiego

Re: 997 vs 997S, which to buy?

I can buy even a Turbo tomorrow but I went for the standard 997. I had one of the first car they made (#267). I took delivery of the car on August 5, 2004, even before the car was launched in Paris on September 21st if I remember correctly. I drove the [beep] out of the car on some extremely bad roads (I have now 41.000 km or approx. 26.000 miles). I use the car as a daily driver, all day, all year, doesn't matter the weather.

Here are the main reasons I picked the non-S version (I hope is helping you; please remember we are talking about very-very bad roads):
- the PASM suspension is susceptible to sensor failures because of vibrations (Cayenne, Touareg or Mercedes and Audi air-suspension cars are going in and out of the service here all the time, which is very annoying for the user);
- the 18"rims are offering a smoother ride;
- the extra ground clearance is helping too sometime (a lot of potholes around here ...);
- at the launch I couldn't know if the 3.8 liter new engine had any issues being a new engine.

Again please understand the local definition of a road: a series of potholes mixed with gravel and tarmac.

All of that being said, if your roads are better and you don't plan to keep the car for a long time (defined by more than 3 years), than you should trust the electronics and go for the S. If you want to keep the car for a long time, especially more than 5 years, beware of the electronic problems that modern cars have. Keeping a modern car for more than 5 years, especially a 997 Porsche, could become a very expensive adventure. You should look at different electronic spare parts for the car, including the PASM suspension, and you will understand what I am talking about.

Also I would add that I drove both versions on several occasions and I swear that for a daily driver the torque of the non-S is more usable on daily driving, up to 200km/h or approx. 125 mph, than the S. The X51 powerkit is a different story, being the best combo.

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Oct 23, 2006 12:48:49 PM

Pentium: Rennteam Master; Loc: Earth , Romania; Posts: 3055, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 27, 2003; Reply to: Pentium

Re: 997 vs 997S, which to buy?

And one more thing: either one you buy don't add a lot of options, especially if you plan to keep the car for a short period of time. Any option you add has zero resale value. Add only what you really need. If you have doubts about any of the options please ask me because against my will my car had a lot of them so I know how good they really are. But there was nothing I could do, it was a "take it or not" kind of deal. If I didn't picked that one I was supposed to wait at least 6 more months or even a year until I could receive one exactly as I want.

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Oct 23, 2006 2:31:28 PM

Le Chef: Veteran; Loc: Chicago , United States; Posts: 1059, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 3, 2003; Reply to: Pentium

Test drive both!

The decision is entirely subjective. Let's face it fractions of a second in 0 - 60 times are not really critical. Most people here can post-rationalise their choice, so are not open to your real needs, just supporting theirs. How many people here say "I made a mistake. I should have bought the other one."?

The only way to be sure is to test drive both extensively on roads you know really well and then decide.

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Oct 23, 2006 2:45:22 PM

Pentium: Rennteam Master; Loc: Earth , Romania; Posts: 3055, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 27, 2003; Reply to: Le Chef

Re: Test drive both!

I agree 100% with LeChef. Don't buy a car without test drive it first. Same with shoes

Did you ever tried to buy shoes over the Internet?

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Oct 23, 2006 4:16:30 PM

mikekenzo: Junior; Loc: La Jolla, CA; Posts: 54, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 11, 2004; Reply to: Pentium

Re: 997 vs 997S, which to buy?

Hi sun, for me I decided to go with the "S" simply because by the time I had spec'd the standard Carrera it was almost the same price as the "S"; that was with fairly few add-ons. In the end I got the "S" with PSE, bose and electric seats plus all of the options that come with the S and i paid only 3k more than the original non-s car. In my thoughts, i figured that I got the motor upgrade for free instead of some cosmetic options....

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Oct 23, 2006 5:20:07 PM

sundiego: Newbie; Loc: san diego CA; Posts: 31, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 12, 2005; Reply to: mikekenzo

Re: 997 vs 997S, which to buy?

Thanks for all the replies! This is why I love these forums! My first option is to go with the 997S, I'm going to buy 2005 used to take advantage of some of the depretiation which occurs heavily in the first year of these cars. Any idea what I should expect to pay? I've been researching the web heavily and working with a local Wholsaler who usually can make smokin deals. Just curious what you all think. Thanks.

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Oct 23, 2006 6:07:18 PM

Silver Bullet: Veteran; Loc: Canada; Posts: 1126, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 24, 2004; Reply to: sundiego

Re: 997 vs 997S, which to buy?

I had a 996 Targa and traded up to a 997 C2S.

Looking back on it, I think I should have gotten a base 997 with BiXenon headlamps, 19 inch wheels, and sport exhaust.

Performance wise, the difference is negligible. PASM is a gimmick of dubious value and everyone who has it leaves the car in normal mode anyways, including Walter Rohl when he's on the 'ring. As has been pointed out, it provides more opportunity for mechanical and electrical problems also. The standard suspension is terrific. Someone pointed out a technical superiority of the M97 over the M96 and I would ask for some evidence of that that doesn't fall into the category of Porsche propaganda. The M96 and M97 are basically the same Boxster derived engines with different displacement, and neither are the GT1 derived 3.6l race engine you get in the GT3 or Turbo. The M96 and M97 are much more similar than they are different. The reliability of the M97, including its rear main seal, remain to be determined.

I also got sport chrono, and I would happily avoid it in the future too. Huge waste of money on another Porsche gimmick (huge because every penny of it is a waste, as opposed to PCCB, which have a huge price tag, but at least offer something worthwhile).

If you decide that you need the "performance" of the 'S', I strongly suggest either (a) making sure you're not just kidding yourself or (b) getting a GT3.

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Oct 23, 2006 6:32:10 PM

KHU: Newbie; Loc: Czech Rep.; Posts: 41, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 7, 2006; Reply to: Silver Bullet

Re: 997 vs 997S, which to buy?

Let me try to add a slightly different perspective... I believe no 997 is cheap to buy nor maintain and all of us have either saved a long time or are in a "general good financial position" to buy a 997. In this situation my personal experience from various cars is that "buy the model you feel 100% comfortable with so that you have no later regrets" as the worst possibly feeling

is having a car and then spending time that I should have bought this version instead or this option, etc. In Prague there are also bad roads but somehow I found out I could not live happily if I bought a base 997 and skipped the opportunity of having something more... now I have a 4S on order (practically fully loaded) and know that either I love the car (my first Porshce) and keep it for a while or I will sell it (admitedly with a high loss, specially for options) but I will know that if I do not like it it was not for the "too base model"...

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Oct 23, 2006 6:40:56 PM

69bossnine: Rennteam Pro; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 2028, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2005; Reply to: Silver Bullet

Re: 997 vs 997S, which to buy?

The S is great value-received for value-given. It all comes down to where your personal priorities lie. I'll tell you what though.... The fact that you're HAVING this dilemma in the first place.... means that you probably need to bite the bullet and go S. It definitely feels stronger just in normal day-to-day squirting around town. Maybe it's just me, but the difference was night/day compared to my test-drive in the standard. More fun-factor. But I'm a guy where you can never be "fast enough" until the drive-wheels can't hold traction. And smoking tires is fun too!!! (you don't get to have that kinda fun in a 911...

)

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Oct 23, 2006 6:56:21 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12586, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: 69bossnine

Re: 997 vs 997S, which to buy?

I think a stripper non-S can be a pretty effective bargain and a fun handler with the smaller wheels/tires and a bit less weight than the S (but again a Cayman S is a bit less money for similar performance).

If you are really performance oriented, then I would say a loaded S is so close in price to a GT3, that I would strongly suggest the GT3.

The S makes the most sense for those who will drive the car on the street primarily and would order the "free" option on the non-S anyways - the extra torque and power are nice too.

Porsche really has every tiny segment covered...

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Oct 23, 2006 7:41:01 PM

roadtrip: Veteran; Loc: new mexico, usa; Posts: 1172, Gallery; Registered on: May 31, 2006; Reply to: Grant

Re: 997 vs 997S, which to buy?

go for the big'n, you won't be disappointed...think about it 190sl vs 300sl...carerra rs vs 914....67 435 corvette vs 327...the comparison list is endless assuming you can manage the initial price difference.

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Oct 23, 2006 7:58:46 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12586, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: roadtrip

Re: 997 vs 997S, which to buy?

Quote:
roadtrip said:
go for the big'n, you won't be disappointed...think about it 190sl vs 300sl...carerra rs vs 914....67 435 corvette vs 327...the comparison list is endless assuming you can manage the initial price difference.

By that logic, we should all convince him to buy the 997 GT3 RS

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Oct 23, 2006 8:10:57 PM

69bossnine: Rennteam Pro; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 2028, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2005; Reply to: roadtrip

Re: 997 vs 997S, which to buy?

Quote:
roadtrip said:
go for the big'n, you won't be disappointed...think about it 190sl vs 300sl...carerra rs vs 914....67 435 corvette vs 327...the comparison list is endless assuming you can manage the initial price difference.

I think your analogies are a bit ambitious. More like '67 427-435 Corvette with 4-wheel discs and knock-offs & side pipes vs. '67 427-390 Corvette with front discs and rallyes.

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Oct 23, 2006 8:37:42 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12586, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: 69bossnine

Re: 997 vs 997S, which to buy?

Quote:
69bossnine said:
Quote:
roadtrip said:
go for the big'n, you won't be disappointed...think about it 190sl vs 300sl...carerra rs vs 914....67 435 corvette vs 327...the comparison list is endless assuming you can manage the initial price difference.

I think your analogies are a bit ambitious. More like '67 427-435 Corvette with 4-wheel discs and knock-offs & side pipes vs. '67 427-390 Corvette with front discs and rallyes.

I think the biggest difference on that list is b/t a 190SL and a 300SL Gullwing...

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Oct 23, 2006 8:45:18 PM

PandaMan: Senior; Loc: Canada , Vancouver; Posts: 503, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 1, 2006; Reply to: Grant

Re: 997 vs 997S, which to buy?

Get the S you won't regret it.

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Oct 23, 2006 8:47:21 PM

The Groom: Expert; Loc: EU; Posts: 1779, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 23, 2005; Reply to: 69bossnine

Re: 997 vs 997S, which to buy?

Since money is an issue, the I'd say it all boils down to whether you want PASM, xenons and 19" wheels.

If you do, then you've already spent half the difference, and you're going to get the rest back when you sell the car. In other words, the 30 hp upgrade is basically free.

If you don't, then go for the 3.6L Carrera. The engine upgrade is nice, but not so important. What's important is you're getting a 911.

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Oct 23, 2006 9:04:20 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12586, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: The Groom

Re: 997 vs 997S, which to buy?

Quote:
The Groom said:
Since money is an issue, the I'd say it all boils down to whether you want PASM, xenons and 19" wheels.

I agree and if you're saving money, get the Xenons on the 997 and skip the rest. The standard suspension and smaller tires have some advantages...

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Oct 23, 2006 10:19:14 PM

Jim_in_Iowa: Pilot; Loc: US; Posts: 336, Gallery; Registered on: May 18, 2005; Reply to: sundiego

Re: 997 vs 997S, which to buy?

I spent a couple of days with an S and a non-S in Germany a few weeks ago. The S does have more power, but the base model is no slouch. I suspect you could be happy with a base and a few options or an S and no options.

There are people, including journalist-racer Paul Frere, who prefer the base suspension and 18" wheels. As others have pointed out, that will have long term reliability, and the 18s have plenty of grip.

As for options, it's possible to go insane in a hurry. This depends on your fit, but for me the electric seat would be a first option, to get the lumbar support, the adaptive sport seats even better, but double the spendy. I'd have to get the heated seats, though in SD you could live without them more easily than most places.

I'd say make a priority list of your options, then see how that compares with what extra you get for the S. The Xenons are great and the 3.8 has more suds, but PASM and the 19s are less significant to me.

Jim

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Oct 23, 2006 11:20:40 PM

Porky Tokyo: Senior; Loc: Tokyo, Japan; Posts: 617, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 8, 2005; Reply to: Jim_in_Iowa

Re: 997 vs 997S, which to buy?

Optioned up the base car can be quite close in terms of price to the S, in other countries including Japan the price is USD 25,000 more for the S and the depreciation is a joke! You can buy a secondhand base 2006 car here for USD 100,000 and a S for about USD 120,000.

If I were in the USA I would got the S

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Oct 24, 2006 12:37:23 AM

KiwiCanuck: Co-Pilot; Loc: Canada; Posts: 210, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 14, 2005; Reply to: Pentium

Re: 997 vs 997S, which to buy?

I agree with Pentium and Jim_in_Iowa,

Pentium said :"Here are the main reasons I picked the non-S version
- the PASM suspension is susceptible to sensor failures because of vibrations .....
- the 18"rims are offering a smoother ride;
- the extra ground clearance is helping too sometime (a lot of potholes around here ...);
- at the launch I couldn't know if the 3.8 liter new engine had any issues being a new engine Ans; no, but it is no better either, with seals going on them also."

I have a 3.6L for similar reasons, since May 2005. Bi-Xenons are too bright for many other motorists, who flash at you all the time....and I did NOT want them again; the 19in are much harsher in ride; and the 2005 PASM cars ( and maybe still in 2006) have soft bushings somewhere in the back that cause lateral motion of the body-back at higher g values. Annoying, and I would not repaet the choice for a 2005 car----many UK buyers find the standard steel suspension with 18in really excellent and preferable. I am still intending to try and replace my bushings with newer firmer ones---the car's cornering stability is now much less satisfactory than my 1996 NSX ( my daily driver). Otherwise the combo of 18in wheels and PASM is extraordinarily good....

I also found both 3.6 and 3.8L much too quiet after my NSX, and so fitted a sports muffler and headers to the 3.6L---now it sounds like a sports car.

Road test both and buy what YOU like.

Cheers KiwiCanuck

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Oct 24, 2006 1:03:45 AM

Silver Bullet: Veteran; Loc: Canada; Posts: 1126, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 24, 2004; Reply to: KiwiCanuck

Re: 997 vs 997S, which to buy?

I've written this a few times in different threads lately, but I'll repeat it again here.

I was at a track event with my new 997S and my old 996 Targa with her new owner was also there. On the straight (the longest straight on any race track in Canada, where speeds of around 240 km/h can be rached before turn #1), I could not pull up to let alone away from my old 996. That car had the 3.6l M96 engine, and probably weighed a similar amount due to the Targa roof. Thus, the acceleration difference really is negligible. It is quite common for folks to believe they are getting more squirt from the 'S' because it has been engineered to deliver a more thrilling exhaust note. Drive an 'S' back to back with a nonS 997 that has sport exhaust, and I bet you'll fail that 'Pepsi challenge'.

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Oct 24, 2006 1:53:11 AM

GA997S: Veteran; Loc: Athens, Georgia, USA; Posts: 1059, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 19, 2005; Reply to: Silver Bullet

Re: 997 vs 997S, which to buy?

@SB, there's something else in play there. I'm sure the 996 had a well broken-in engine and maybe the 997S is still tight. It's a 35 hp difference...doesn't make sense.

@sundeigo, the 996 was a nice car except for the headlights...get the non-S and you'll have a 996 with an updated interior and the correct headlights for a 911. Get the S and you'll add better suspension, brighter lights, bigger engine, bigger shoes, bigger brakes, bigger sound, and a bigger smile.

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Oct 24, 2006 2:14:54 AM

bstew: Expert; Loc: NC, USA; Posts: 1797, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 11, 2005; Reply to: Le Chef

Re: Test drive both!

I own a 997 Cab. Do I need a 997S, no but like everything else in this world everyone wants it bigger and better. Drive both and make the choice that works best for you.

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997 vs 997S, which to buy?

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