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Re: 997 Turbo drive impression in EVO
Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
More like your wishful thinking clouding your mind.
Porsche claims that the "fastback" feature of the Tip,when combined with Sport Chrono on Sport, provides for lightening quick downshifts, perfectly matched to engine speed and that it even does that and shifts down automatically when applying the brakes.
So far no news on that from independent sources.
So far its just.."Oh, the Tip is slower at changing gears."
Be a ostrich if you want to be, thats ok, but I want to see some specific mention of that claimed performance in a test.
What do you mean by Ostrich? Whsishful thinking on my part? What are you talking about. I'm sure that Porsche praises the lightning fast downshifts and what not, they want to sell cars don't they? So far, all you have done is repeat your same argument without any proof or new information. Any of the reviews of the cars with tip and sport chrono must include the journalists experience with sport and sport chrono on. There are several articles in which they mention the effect of overboost. Why wouldn't they test the car with the sportiest settings activated? Porsche obviously told them about the features of the car, read the CAR scan and you will see that the testers in spain were forced to sit through a long seminar on the technical aspects of the car. Do you really think that Porsche just handed the writers the keys and said "go have fun, figure out the settings on your own, we don't want you to know how to put the car in its fastest and sportiest setting because we don't want you to like the tip." They MUST have told them what the buttons do, denying that is simply ignorant. FACE IT, they experienced the tip in all its glory and found it laking in the fun department. The reason they offer two choices of transmision is that they realize different people have different requirements of their car. If you want superior acceleration (below 200 kph) and a more relaxed, easy driving experience, by all means, buy the tip. According to Porsche "The six speed will remain the enthusiasts choice." All those who have driven the car, including Atomic80, a fellow rennteamer, have agreed with this sentiment. Why do you not believe them? What do they have to gain by lying to us? Do you think every single one of them is incompetent and cannot master an AUTOMATIC transmision? That is why I say you are basing your arguments on wishful thinking. You want to believe that the tip is better in every aspect, this is not true. I have no use for wishful thinking since I am not ordering a new turbo. I have nothing to lose if the tip is better in all regards, I just don't want people to go out and buy the tip expecting it to deliver the more involving driving experience.
Re: 997 Turbo drive impression in EVO
Wow you are relentless, I have read every single review on the turbo, minus those in other langauges and they all say the same thing, Manual is more fun/involving than tip. I have also read the pdf porduct info 90+ page release from porsche which states that the manual is still the choice for the enthusiast. Practice what you preach. 
Re: 997 Turbo drive impression in EVO
Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
leasing does have its money factor and tax advantages, but it also kills some of the joy of feeling actual ownership.
Id rather say, yes my Enzo is bought and paid for, instead of Oh, its owned by City Bank.
To each his own....
I just use whatever financial structure that allows me to always drive <1 yo bespoke-spec'd car of choice w/latest performance tech and minim mtce down-time/hassle, at lowest all-in-cost to me....perhaps dispassionate (like 997TT Tip
), but works for me... 
Re: 997 Turbo drive impression in EVO
Trip, Dont look to me to help you improve your reading comprehension skills.. but as a gift to you....
Yes the manual TT did better buy a few sec on the 'ring, a long course with some longe straights. So for the ring its the best choice. Let the simple parrots in the press squak that different ways.
But street use is a different matter, the Tip is quicker where its used the most - 0 to 200kph. How is the Tip being quicker "less involving" or less "sporty" ???
And on a short technical course wich downshifts quicker?
If you are that enamoured with journalists as paragons of accuracy and theink they are all knowing of all details, just visit the retraction pages of the NY Times or the many law offices that specialize in libel actions against-gasp- "Journalists"!
Yes the manual TT did better buy a few sec on the 'ring, a long course with some longe straights. So for the ring its the best choice. Let the simple parrots in the press squak that different ways.
But street use is a different matter, the Tip is quicker where its used the most - 0 to 200kph. How is the Tip being quicker "less involving" or less "sporty" ???
And on a short technical course wich downshifts quicker?
If you are that enamoured with journalists as paragons of accuracy and theink they are all knowing of all details, just visit the retraction pages of the NY Times or the many law offices that specialize in libel actions against-gasp- "Journalists"!
Re: 997 Turbo drive impression in EVO
Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
Trip, Dont look to me to help you improve your reading comprehension skills.. but as a gift to you....
Yes the manual TT did better buy a few sec on the 'ring, a long course with some longe straights. So for the ring its the best choice. Let the simple parrots in the press squak that different ways.
But street use is a different matter, the Tip is quicker where its used the most - 0 to 200kph. How is the Tip being quicker "less involving" or less "sporty" ???
And on a short technical course wich downshifts quicker?
If you are that enamoured with journalists as paragons of accuracy and theink they are all knowing of all details, just visit the retraction pages of the NY Times or the many law offices that specialize in libel actions against-gasp- "Journalists"!
That was not only the most arrogant post I have read in a while, it was the most ignorant. Why would I need to improve my reading comprehension skills? You have no reason to say that. Don't look to me to improve your car knowledge. Exploiting the tiptronics slight advantage to 200kph is not going to make the car more invovling. Do you know what the word involving means?
Involving has nothing to do with speed, it is how INVOLVED you are in the driving experience. If the car was completely automated and all you had to do was sit in it, it might would be quicker because human error would be completely removed yet, by the definition of the word, there would be no involvment. How can you fail to grasp this? So far you have proved to me you know very little about driving and that the only pleasure you get is from comparing statistics. You are not an enthusiast if you cannot even understand what driver involvment means! Again the tip is obviously the transmision for you. Not to say that all those buying the tip are not enthusiasts, RC is definitely passionate. But he understands what driver involvment means and you clearly don't. And no, I don't hold journalists on a pedistal, but they have actually driven the car, understand the word involvment, and have little or no bias, unlike you.Stop wasting everyone's time with your nonsense posts.
Re: 997 Turbo drive impression in EVO
Do you "pro-Tip" guys drive like extras on the "fast and furious" everywhere, and pride yourselves on giving your significant others with the most efficient "12 seconds of pleasure" once a week?
Why not make the steering turn lock to lock in 1/2 revolution, or make the brake pedal achieve ABS threshold in 1/4" of travel? Those would both improve response time as well!
One of the highest concentration of nerve endings in our bodies is in our fingertips for a reason.
Why not make the steering turn lock to lock in 1/2 revolution, or make the brake pedal achieve ABS threshold in 1/4" of travel? Those would both improve response time as well!
One of the highest concentration of nerve endings in our bodies is in our fingertips for a reason.
Re: 997 Turbo drive impression in EVO
Quote:
trip said:Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
Trip, Dont look to me to help you improve your reading comprehension skills.. but as a gift to you....
Yes the manual TT did better buy a few sec on the 'ring, a long course with some longe straights. So for the ring its the best choice. Let the simple parrots in the press squak that different ways.
But street use is a different matter, the Tip is quicker where its used the most - 0 to 200kph. How is the Tip being quicker "less involving" or less "sporty" ???
And on a short technical course wich downshifts quicker?
If you are that enamoured with journalists as paragons of accuracy and theink they are all knowing of all details, just visit the retraction pages of the NY Times or the many law offices that specialize in libel actions against-gasp- "Journalists"!
That was not only the most arrogant post I have read in a while, it was the most ignorant. Why would I need to improve my reading comprehension skills? You have no reason to say that. Don't look to me to improve your car knowledge. Exploiting the tiptronics slight advantage to 200kph is not going to make the car more invovling. Do you know what the word involving means?
I have to agree with Trip. I think he's being a bit more precise with the nomenclature provided.
As I posted earlier, I found a drive in a Fiat 124 Spider (0-60 in ~10 seconds; no abs, no hydraulic clutch, straight pipes, top down
) ) more involving than a ride in a moddified S4 Tip (0-60 4.8). Why? Because your involvement is more than sheer performance...
Re: 997 Turbo drive impression in EVO
Quote:
Rossi said:Quote:
KresoF1 said:
But, some of them like Horst von Saurma from German Sport Auto mag are really good drivers!
Don't let that hear Nick!
Your right but I will qualify my opinion. He knows how to drive a Porsche.
Regarding his comments on a Porsche, can anyone cite to me where he was emphatically negative on a Porsche? Has he ever made a disparaging remark about any of their cars?
Zzorba, that was cruel bring up the Becker Nav. system.
Ferrari saddled me with it but mercifully only charged me their cost $625.oo. 
Finally I will wager that within 5-7 years the manual transmission will be a special order option because all the cars will be equipped with F1/squential type transmissions. The arguments here for manual are a last gasp by backward thinking car enthusiast who know they are on life support.
Re: 997 Turbo drive impression in EVO
Ijust got home after some hot laps in perfect conditions at the NBR with lots of great cars and hardcore maniacs. Porsche manual cars still rule the Ring by a major margin. Ferraris tend to crash, break down or get left behind. Tips just get left behind - they are gong too slow to crash......
When is Rennteam having a Ring event?
When is Rennteam having a Ring event?
Re: 997 Turbo drive impression in EVO
Nick and I don't really have issues with each other, just differing opinions, I cool with that. Jimflat6 on the other hand... I don't think that the manual will be a special order item because it is still available on ferraris even though 90% choose the F1 geabox.
Re: 997 Turbo drive impression in EVO
Quote:
W8MM said:Quote:
zzboba said:PAG could have saved us from this dilemma with the timely introduction of the PDK.
I'm not sure I can agree.
Twin-clutch, double-gear-shaft style transmission setups have some serious heat dissipation challenges since (as I understand it) simultaneous slip of both clutches necessarily substitutes for the action of the torque converter in the Tip to arrive at acceptably smooth gear changes.
Twin clutches need to be packaged in the space ordinarily devoted to only one. They might each have to be smaller in order that both have an acceptably small combined packaging volume. Smaller, while simultaneously more powerful, seems hard to do.
The Veyron seems to have conquered this problem at a high power level, but we're talking here about a Porsche at 10 times lower cost. How many PDKs would be sold for a $40,000 option price?
What if one wants to "chip" ones new 997TT? How robust do the new double-shaft twin-clutches have to be? How much safety margin is built in for the "tuners" to use up?
I can just hear it now; "Why didn't they make the PDK able to stand adequate power? Now, I'll have to buy a (insert other transmission here) so I can get what I want in the way of even higher power level!"
The posts I especially love are the accusations that Porsche is not really an engineering company at heart, but rather a slimy, manipulative marketer of less than optimum, over-hyped hardware pandered to a bunch of image-conscious know-nothings that crowd out the needs of the truly worthy, who deserve much better.
Tell me, which company is serving the needs of car enthusiasts so much better than Porsche?
Mike,
I wonder if a tranny coooling system could handle the tranny heat dissipation, with circulating oil/coolant that communicates with a radiator for convection, separate from the rest of the car's cooling system, whether NA or T-charged.
I also bet that titanium or other amalga can be manufactured to handle the torque requirements-upwards of 800Nm+ if needed. It's likely a matter of cost-and I doubt it's a matter of building in "reserve" so the tuners have more wiggle room.
Although I wouldn't mind if you are correct on that point. Do you (or anyone) know if the Veyron's DSG has a liquid-based tranny cooling system, and what their DSG is made of to handle the beast's humongous torque requirements?
My inkling still is that Porsche CAN make a PDK that can keep cool and work fast, but I suspect they are working on a design that allows more control over the gear selection versus the competition's offerings. It will have to be faster than the other systems around, able to handle all the torque, be reliable as h---, and have an auto program that the masses can use mindlessly. And who knows, perhaps it will have eight gears.
Re: 997 Turbo drive impression in EVO
Quote:
W8MM said:Quote:
trip said:... I don't think that the manual will be a special order item because it is still available on ferraris even though 90% choose the F1 geabox.
So, once it gets to 98% F1, will the manual be special order then?
How should I know, why ask a question like that in such a sarcastic manner? While 90% of Ferrari buyers may prefer paddle shifters, I do not think that this will be the case with Porsche buyers in the near future.
Re: 997 Turbo drive impression in EVO
So you are trying to teach me a lesson? My exchange with JimFlat6 only reached such a heated level on my part because of the way in which he kept attacking my veiws without supporting his argument with anything but his opinion. What does that have to do with you?
Re: 997 Turbo drive impression in EVO
Quote:
W8MM said:Quote:
nberry said:The arguments here for manual are a last gasp by backward thinking car enthusiast who know they are on life support.
Nick, you and Trip should go to counseling together to work out your respective issues.
Trip is a very young man who can be influenced by counseling. I am beyond help.
Re: 997 Turbo drive impression in EVO
Quote:
trip said:
So you are trying to teach me a lesson? My exchange with JimFlat6 only reached such a heated level on my part because of the way in which he kept attacking my views without supporting his argument with anything but his opinion. What does that have to do with you?
It really has nothing to do with me.
I have a habit of listening to (reading) interesting conversations so that if I have the chance to participate, I can respond in a simpatico manner. I try to fit in and not change the tenor of the repartee.
I guess I messed up when I thought that JimFlat6 was flamboyantly engaging you in a spirited discussion in which he would pretend to push your buttons and you would pretend to be outraged. It seems that the joke was actually on me.
I'm so sorry I incorrectly assumed that a lighter tone was appropriate.
Re: 997 Turbo drive impression in EVO
Trip I might not disagree with you (6speed being more involving), but the tone of your posts where starting to mimic Ronnie ZO6's. In regards to Tips performance I would wait to read some of the Rennteamers reviews before I believe one iota the rag jurnnies write.
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