Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: How many CGTs delivered to North America? - Page1

May 24, 2006 12:26:29 AM

Les Quam: Newbie; Loc: Las Vegas; Posts: 48, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 4, 2003

How many CGTs delivered to North America?

It's been widely reported that Porsche manufactured 604 for the North American market. Most recently reported by Sports Car magazine in what they describe as a "press release" from Atlanta on the business wire. Does anyone have any other reliable information? Thanks.

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May 24, 2006 7:50:08 AM

A430v: Co-Pilot; Loc: California, U.S.A.; Posts: 212, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 8, 2002; Reply to: Les Quam

Re: How many CGTs delivered to North America?

Can't help Les...but for anyone interested, here's the press release:

# # #
Production Ends On Porsche Carrera GT: The Most Successful Supercar In History

Production ended May 6, 2006 on the Porsche Carrera GT: The Most Successful Supercar In History

An offshoot of Porsche's racing program and a technological tour de force, the 605-horsepower Carrera GT is a carbon-fibered symphony of speed.

ATLANTA, May 9, 2006 - The manufacture of the most successful supercar in history has come to an end. Production of the Carrera GT at Porsche's facility in Leipzig, Germany, concluded on Saturday, May 6, 2006, bringing to a close the latest series in a line of ultra-exclusive and ultra-performing automobiles from Porsche.

In its brief production run, and befitting its ethereal performance, the award-winning Carrera GT was named "Best Dream Car 2004" by Road & Track magazine, and "Best Dream Machine" by the popular MotorWeek television program in 2005. "Even a short ride in this carbon-fiber wonder-car will spoil you for the rest of your life," said MotorWeek host John Davis. "The Carrera GT is the best motivation to get rich that we've ever driven."

Even in an economic climate that did not favor products in this segment of the market, Porsche's V-10 powered supercar has sold in unprecedented numbers. More than 1,270 Carrera GTs have been sold since its introduction in late 2003. To date, 604 have found homes in North America. This figure represents a greater number than the total production of the McLaren F1, Ferrari Enzo, and Pagani Zonda models combined.

The Carrera GT is a storied member in a line of limited edition supercars, a lineage born from Porsche's experience at the highest levels of world-class endurance racing. The Carrera GT owes its product modeling as an exclusive, racing-derived, ultra-high-performance roadcar to Porsche's first supercar, the 959. Storming the world automotive stage at the Frankfurt Auto Show in 1985, the 959 was intended for "Group B" racing competition, and served as Porsche's technology flagship-a rolling paradigm of automotive performance from which future models could draw even loftier benchmarks.

The Carrera GT supercar also had its genesis in the racing program, but instead became a street-only machine. The Carrera GT evolved from a 5.5-liter V-10 engine program originally developed for endurance competition. Enlarged to 5.7-liters for the production car, the naturally aspirated Carrera GT's V-10 produces 605 (SAE) horsepower at 8,000 rpm, and this power is routed through a production car first-Porsche's Ceramic Composite Clutch (PCCC(R)). Only 6.65 inches (169mm) in diameter, the race-caliber clutch easily handles the Carrera GT's prodigious output while allowing the entire powertrain to sit lower in the chassis, dropping the center of gravity for even sharper handling.

The Carrera GT's wide use of cutting edge materials prompted Popular Science magazine in 2003 to name the exotic machine the "Best of What's New" for its advanced technology and chassis development. The Carrera GT's monocoque chassis is constructed from bonded layers of carbon fiber tissue, resin, and aluminum and plastic honeycomb materials that are incredibly light, but strong. The entire chassis weighs just over 220 pounds (100 kg), and is mated to equally esoteric materials including forged magnesium wheels, and the staggering 380mm Porsche Ceramic Composite Brakes (PCCB(R)).

Thanks to near fanatical attention to weight savings, the performance results are stunning. The Carrera GT will accelerate from a standing start to 62 mph (100 km/h) in only 3.9 seconds, at which point, things really get going. The 99 mph (160 km/h) mark arrives in less than seven seconds, 124 mph (200 km/h) in under 10 seconds, and the Carrera GT can achieve a top test-track speed of 205 mph (330 km/h). Despite the otherworldly performance, the Carrera GT is still one of few supercars that can be driven every day. Traction control, air conditioning, GPS navigation, a Bose audio system, and a fitted, 5-piece, matched-leather luggage set are standard equipment. The Porsche Carrera GT first went on sale in North America on January 31, 2004, and pricing for this ultimate Porsche supercar is $440,000 (USD).

Porsche Cars North America, Inc. (PCNA), based in Atlanta, GA, and its subsidiary, Porsche Cars Canada, Ltd., are the exclusive importers of Porsche sports cars and Cayenne(R) sport utility vehicles for the United States and Canada. A wholly owned, indirect subsidiary of Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche AG, PCNA employs approximately 300 people who provide Porsche vehicles, parts, service, marketing and training for its 213 U.S. and Canadian dealers. They, in turn, provide Porsche owners with best-in-class service.
# # #

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May 24, 2006 3:13:51 PM

MAVERICK: Veteran; Loc: Cincinnati, OH (USA) , United States; Posts: 1145, Gallery; Registered on: May 31, 2004; Reply to: A430v

Re: How many CGTs delivered to North America?

What was Intercity Lines Inc.'s number of deliveries? Did Intercity deliver to Canada, Mexico, Greenland, Saint Pierre and Miquelon?

The CGT was also available by air freight. Did Intercity deliver from the airport to the dealer?

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May 24, 2006 9:03:36 PM

A430v: Co-Pilot; Loc: California, U.S.A.; Posts: 212, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 8, 2002; Reply to: MAVERICK

Re: How many CGTs delivered to North America?

Quote:
MAVERICK said:
What was Intercity Lines Inc.'s number of deliveries?

The CGT was also available by air freight. Did Intercity deliver from the airport to the dealer?

Yup, Intercity delivered from the airport to the dealer. They handled a total of 689 production CGTs for PCNA. Link from 6SpeedOnline.com, which Intercity is a sponsor of: Intercity CGT link.

Cheers!

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May 24, 2006 10:33:04 PM

WBH: Expert; Loc: CA; Posts: 1963, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 2, 2004; Reply to: A430v

Re: How many CGTs delivered to North America?

Interesting, US (let's face it: Canada and Mexico are rounding error in the NA CGT demand equation

) consumed roughly 55% of global CGT produc (vs roughly 40% of overall P global vol).

Now, I see why US struggles to deal w/only being allocated about 35% of global F produc (though I understand perhaps 40%+ of 12s go to US mkt).....and why Euro even struggled to sell new Enzos into such "minor" mkts as France, etc....

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May 24, 2006 11:51:16 PM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: WBH

Re: How many CGTs delivered to North America?

Quote:
VKSF said:
Interesting, US (let's face it: Canada and Mexico are rounding error in the NA CGT demand equation ) consumed roughly 55% of global CGT produc (vs roughly 40% of overall P global vol).

Now, I see why US struggles to deal w/only being allocated about 35% of global F produc (though I understand perhaps 40%+ of 12s go to US mkt).....and why Euro even struggled to sell new Enzos into such "minor" mkts as France, etc....

There are two Enzos in our country. One per every million inhabitants. How they couldn't sell those few Enzos in France, is beyond me.

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May 25, 2006 1:28:17 AM

icon: Pilot; Loc: birmingham.al.usa.na; Posts: 442, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 13, 2006; Reply to: WBH

Re: How many CGTs delivered to North America?

Quote:
VKSF said:
Interesting, US (let's face it: Canada and Mexico are rounding error in the NA CGT demand equation ) consumed roughly 55% of global CGT produc (vs roughly 40% of overall P global vol).

Now, I see why US struggles to deal w/only being allocated about 35% of global F produc (though I understand perhaps 40%+ of 12s go to US mkt).....and why Euro even struggled to sell new Enzos into such "minor" mkts as France, etc....

where are you getting the total cgt's produced?
press release only states,
"More than 1,270 Carrera GTs have been sold since its introduction in late 2003"
i saw one report that stated porsche would not divulge the total cgt's manufactured.
i've seen several reports that only state "more than 1270"
pcna press release says 604 to north america but the freight company delivered 689!?!?
doesn't look like they want to publicize the numbers.
i don't think that is an honest way of doing business for a company that sold a 440k usd vehicle as limited edition.

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May 25, 2006 6:36:33 PM

WBH: Expert; Loc: CA; Posts: 1963, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 2, 2004; Reply to: Crash

Re: How many CGTs delivered to North America?

Quote:
Crash said:
Quote:
VKSF said:
Interesting, US (let's face it: Canada and Mexico are rounding error in the NA CGT demand equation ) consumed roughly 55% of global CGT produc (vs roughly 40% of overall P global vol).

Now, I see why US struggles to deal w/only being allocated about 35% of global F produc (though I understand perhaps 40%+ of 12s go to US mkt).....and why Euro even struggled to sell new Enzos into such "minor" mkts as France, etc....

There are two Enzos in our country. One per every million inhabitants. How they couldn't sell those few Enzos in France, is beyond me.

Indeed, very perplexing....would be intrigued to learn what the Euro sales distribution of new Enzos was in '03 (where used 3yo Enzos sit today is far less interesting IMO

)....would suspect Euro's most powerful demand mkts are London, MC, Munich and Frankfurt.....and would suspect much of London/German/MC money sourced new Enzos via MC/S France dealers, making France's weak Enzo demand even more perplexing.....were new Enzos difficult to source via German dealers? How about London?

Or perhaps this is a datapoint indicating that MC's (and perhaps overall Euro) actual high-end consumption patterns are fairly underwhelming, despite much razzle-dazzle in MC/London....sort of like LA.....

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May 25, 2006 6:45:36 PM

WBH: Expert; Loc: CA; Posts: 1963, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 2, 2004; Reply to: icon

Re: How many CGTs delivered to North America?

Quote:
icon said:
Quote:
VKSF said:
Interesting, US (let's face it: Canada and Mexico are rounding error in the NA CGT demand equation ) consumed roughly 55% of global CGT produc (vs roughly 40% of overall P global vol).

Now, I see why US struggles to deal w/only being allocated about 35% of global F produc (though I understand perhaps 40%+ of 12s go to US mkt).....and why Euro even struggled to sell new Enzos into such "minor" mkts as France, etc....

where are you getting the total cgt's produced?
press release only states,
"More than 1,270 Carrera GTs have been sold since its introduction in late 2003"
i saw one report that stated porsche would not divulge the total cgt's manufactured.
i've seen several reports that only state "more than 1270"
pcna press release says 604 to north america but the freight company delivered 689!?!?
doesn't look like they want to publicize the numbers.
i don't think that is an honest way of doing business for a company that sold a 440k usd vehicle as limited edition.

Just doing rough-cut calcs off press release and vague datapoints I've learned in past....

Prob for competitive reasons and sales channel mgmt issues, most (or all) mfrs are sensitive re: disclosing precise sales data, esp distribution data via country/specific urban region and esp the data re: high-profile, high-margin products like CGT, 997TT, F, 55/65.....but one can piece together a rough sketch of the most powerful mkts for new, $150K+ cars from talking to smart sources and a few moderately cryptic datapoints like this press release....

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May 25, 2006 7:04:03 PM

MAVERICK: Veteran; Loc: Cincinnati, OH (USA) , United States; Posts: 1145, Gallery; Registered on: May 31, 2004; Reply to: WBH

Re: How many CGTs delivered to North America?

Quote:
VKSF said:
high-margin products like CGT, 997TT, F, 55/65.....

VKSF, what's your rough-cut calc. on Porsche and Ferrari's lowest profit margin vehicle?

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May 25, 2006 8:17:36 PM

icon: Pilot; Loc: birmingham.al.usa.na; Posts: 442, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 13, 2006; Reply to: WBH

Re: How many CGTs delivered to North America?

Quote:
VKSF said:
Just doing rough-cut calcs off press release and vague datapoints I've learned in past....

Prob for competitive reasons and sales channel mgmt issues, most (or all) mfrs are sensitive re: disclosing precise sales data, esp distribution data via country/specific urban region and esp the data re: high-profile, high-margin products like CGT, 997TT, F, 55/65.....but one can piece together a rough sketch of the most powerful mkts for new, $150K+ cars from talking to smart sources and a few moderately cryptic datapoints like this press release....

so you don't know the total production of the "limited production" cgt?

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May 26, 2006 1:34:51 PM

WBH: Expert; Loc: CA; Posts: 1963, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 2, 2004; Reply to: MAVERICK

Re: How many CGTs delivered to North America?

Quote:
MAVERICK said:
Quote:
VKSF said:
high-margin products like CGT, 997TT, F, 55/65.....

VKSF, what's your rough-cut calc. on Porsche and Ferrari's lowest profit margin vehicle?

Don't have sufficient specific financials to even call it a "calc" but my guess is cheapest models of P/F, Box and 430, are lowest % margin cars, but vols help offset to some extent in absolute profits. Also, consider that ex-US, F prices are fairly different, where 430 and 997TT are more evenly priced and seems as if 599/612 aren't as incrementally more expensive vs 430, as they are in US (perhaps again reflecting Euro's weak demand for high-end cars

).....

Recently recall hearing a MB exec admit that S-Class accounts for some 30-40% of MB's operating profits....I suspect a disproportionate share of op profits vs S-Class share of MB sales vol.....and I'd suspect the 55s are far more profitable vs 550s....and again, my sense is US buys a disproportionate frac of global 55 (and 65) produc....perhaps a pattern here....

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May 26, 2006 1:51:05 PM

WBH: Expert; Loc: CA; Posts: 1963, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 2, 2004; Reply to: icon

Re: How many CGTs delivered to North America?

Quote:
icon said:
Quote:
VKSF said:
Just doing rough-cut calcs off press release and vague datapoints I've learned in past....

Prob for competitive reasons and sales channel mgmt issues, most (or all) mfrs are sensitive re: disclosing precise sales data, esp distribution data via country/specific urban region and esp the data re: high-profile, high-margin products like CGT, 997TT, F, 55/65.....but one can piece together a rough sketch of the most powerful mkts for new, $150K+ cars from talking to smart sources and a few moderately cryptic datapoints like this press release....

so you don't know the total production of the "limited production" cgt?

Nope....but 1270-1300-1350, etc is close enough for me....

Nor do we know exactly how many Enzos were built, replacement copies built for crashed Enzos.....and from what I gather, Enzo in Euro (and ex-US generally....i.e., 60%+ of Enzo produc

) was sort of like CGT was globally....not particularly sought-after by the mkt and easily available....

IMO, lim produc cars, like any mass-produc car, are only interesting for about a yr before engine/tranny/brake/chassis/safety system techs evolve/debug such that last yr's car is fairly irrelevant anyway and the tech fanatics have moved on to the latest-tech, typically more mass produc P/F/MB.....but, to me, is interesting to learn high-end mkt sales dynamics as a casual observer.....

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May 27, 2006 10:50:07 PM

icon: Pilot; Loc: birmingham.al.usa.na; Posts: 442, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 13, 2006; Reply to: WBH

Re: How many CGTs delivered to North America?

Quote:
VKSF said:
Nope....but 1270-1300-1350, etc is close enough for me....

if i was an owner i think i would want it narrowed down a little more

plus, it's just my opinion, but if they are going to sell a car as limited edition, then the number of editions should be public knowledge.

best
jeff

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May 29, 2006 12:45:35 PM

EricAlain: Veteran; Loc: Paris, France , France; Posts: 1037, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 14, 2002; Reply to: icon

Re: How many CGTs delivered to North America?

North America : USA + Canada

FY 03-04 : 81 units delivered (to customers)
FY 04-05 : 336 units
FY 05-06 (until end April) : 187 units

Total (at end April) : 604 units

Difference between units delivered to clients and what freight companies are claiming is I believe more or less inventories ...

At end of April, there was 60 units sitting on dealers lots ... We are therefore too far off the 689 units claimed ...

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May 29, 2006 1:17:22 PM

nberry: Rennteam VIP; Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States; Posts: 13737, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: Crash

Re: How many CGTs delivered to North America?

Quote:
Crash said:
Quote:
VKSF said:
Interesting, US (let's face it: Canada and Mexico are rounding error in the NA CGT demand equation ) consumed roughly 55% of global CGT produc (vs roughly 40% of overall P global vol).

Now, I see why US struggles to deal w/only being allocated about 35% of global F produc (though I understand perhaps 40%+ of 12s go to US mkt).....and why Euro even struggled to sell new Enzos into such "minor" mkts as France, etc....

There are two Enzos in our country. One per every million inhabitants. How they couldn't sell those few Enzos in France, is beyond me.

Enzo's were sold by invitation only. Many excellent customers were left out. Ferrari was enforcing its initial 350 limit but ultimately relented and built 399 plus one for the Pope.

I would bet only two clients were offered cars in France.

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May 29, 2006 1:57:46 PM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: nberry

Re: How many CGTs delivered to North America?

Quote:
nberry said:
Quote:
Crash said:
Quote:
VKSF said:
Interesting, US (let's face it: Canada and Mexico are rounding error in the NA CGT demand equation ) consumed roughly 55% of global CGT produc (vs roughly 40% of overall P global vol).

Now, I see why US struggles to deal w/only being allocated about 35% of global F produc (though I understand perhaps 40%+ of 12s go to US mkt).....and why Euro even struggled to sell new Enzos into such "minor" mkts as France, etc....

There are two Enzos in our country. One per every million inhabitants. How they couldn't sell those few Enzos in France, is beyond me.

Enzo's were sold by invitation only. Many excellent customers were left out. Ferrari was enforcing its initial 350 limit but ultimately relented and built 399 plus one for the Pope.

I would bet only two clients were offered cars in France.

That could probably be true, but the fact is, that those Enzos are still sitting on dealers' lots, without a buyer.

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May 30, 2006 12:07:24 AM

icon: Pilot; Loc: birmingham.al.usa.na; Posts: 442, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 13, 2006; Reply to: EricAlain

Re: How many CGTs delivered to North America?

Quote:
EricAlain said:
North America : USA + Canada

FY 03-04 : 81 units delivered (to customers)
FY 04-05 : 336 units
FY 05-06 (until end April) : 187 units

Total (at end April) : 604 units

Difference between units delivered to clients and what freight companies are claiming is I believe more or less inventories ...

At end of April, there was 60 units sitting on dealers lots ... We are therefore too far off the 689 units claimed ...

first time i've seen the actual press release and it does state delivered to homes in the n.a., but it
was widely reported as delivered to north america in some cases, and to the u.s. in others.
with no mention of homes, like they were referring to total deliveries and not only sold units.
even so, this still doesnt give the total produced and still leaves counts less than clear.
when last i checked mid may they're were about 62 units in dealer inventories.
also, intercity made their release of the 689 figure on april 28, this pcna press release is dated may 9.
with reported dealer inventories that would still leave millions of dollars of cgt's unaccounted for.

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May 30, 2006 2:35:41 PM

EricAlain: Veteran; Loc: Paris, France , France; Posts: 1037, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 14, 2002; Reply to: icon

Re: How many CGTs delivered to North America?

Oups sorry a typo in my previous post:

We are NOT too far off what transporters are claiming.

CGT: Official Production numbers:

H1-03/04 : 28 units
H2-03/04 : 242 units
TOTAL 03/04 : 270 units

H1-04/05 : 323
H2-04/05 : 392
TOTAL 04/05 : 715

H1-05/06 : 221

So TOTAL production at end January 2006 was 1,206 units.

I believe Porsche has produced a total of around 1,300 units a bit short of the initial target of 1,500 units.

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May 30, 2006 3:26:16 PM

WBH: Expert; Loc: CA; Posts: 1963, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 2, 2004; Reply to: EricAlain

Re: How many CGTs delivered to North America?

Quote:
EricAlain said:
Oups sorry a typo in my previous post:

We are NOT too far off what transporters are claiming.

CGT: Official Production numbers:

H1-03/04 : 28 units
H2-03/04 : 242 units
TOTAL 03/04 : 270 units

H1-04/05 : 323
H2-04/05 : 392
TOTAL 04/05 : 715

H1-05/06 : 221

So TOTAL production at end January 2006 was 1,206 units.

I believe Porsche has produced a total of around 1,300 units a bit short of the initial target of 1,500 units.

Interesting how global mkt for $150K+ cars is more limited than many predicted a few yrs back.....difficulties selling Enzos and F12s outside US, CGTs/GT2s globally, 65s globally, SL55/997TT after the initial 1-2 yrs of "freshness" etc etc....clearly, despite much wealth creation in past 5-7yrs, most buyers seem to have psychologic barriers re: how much they're willing to pay for any car...and have high expecs re: daily usability/low mtce of any car they do buy....after all, 90%+ of the affluent aren't really car guys at all....and the remaining <10% incls many who just want affordable auto jewelry that's prestigious brand/exclusive/looks good and sounds good....and resale value expectations drive presumed affordability for many custs (just consider how many of US' 430 buyers/flippers would disappear if US 430 supply were materially increased and resale value made doubtful/more similar to 575/997TT/65 resale value)....

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