Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: Porsche Fever - Page1

May 28, 2006 5:54:37 AM

zoner3: Newbie; Loc: California; Posts: 5, Gallery; Registered on: May 28, 2006

Porsche Fever

This is my first post to the forum but I've been reading for some time and appreciate the input/advice provided. Your posts have helped me tremendously.

Just for background, my current car is a 2005 Audi S4 which I'm going to keep and I traded a 2003 BMW M3 for the Audi.

My dilemna: I've loved Porsches since I was a kid and have always wanted to purchase what I believe is the ultimate car (for practical purposes). The 911 is my favorite Porsche but I don't want to settle for a stripped down regular Carrera and can't afford the Carrera S. I have driven the following Porsches over the last month:

2002 996 Turbo
2006 Boxster S
2006 Cayman S
2006 Carrera
2006 Carrera S

My favorite of the bunch was the Carrera S but all the cars were great. The handling of the Boxster S and Cayman S are superior to the 911's in my opinion but the raw power and speed of the 911's is exhilerating...and they obviously have the prestige factor going for them. The 996 Turbo is just insane but I took that off the list not wanting a last generation car.

Knowing that the 997's are out of my price range but still wanting to get into the Porsche fraternity, I went to the dealer today pretty much ready to purchase a Boxster S and saw an unbelievable looking Cayman S optioned as follows:

Arctic Silver Metallic
2200 miles (was owned by one of the dealers who was too big to fit in the car and traded in for a 997 C4)
6 speed
19 inch Worx Wheels (Blacked out, dealer installed, 19 in. wheels with 305mm rear tire, 17 mm spacers...very cool looking)
H&R Lowering Springs (Dealer installed)
Custom paint on the air inlet
Heated Seats
Bose
Sport Chrono

I test drove the car (it felt good) and almost purchased but hesitated due to the aftermarket additions and, primarily, due to the concern that if I purchase either a Boxster S or Cayman S I will have settled and I'll be unhappy with the purchase. I'm just concerned that my need for speed will not be satisfied by the Boxster S or the Cayman S which do not feel much different than my Audi and feel slower than the M3.

So I have two questions of the members:

1) Do you believe the aftermarket additions above will negatively effect the performance based on the car originally set up for 265mm rear tires and the Porsche factory springs?

2) Have any of you who wanted a 997 but purchased a Cayman S or Boxster S due to budget constraints regretted the decision?

Thanks in advance for your feedback.

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May 28, 2006 6:09:46 AM

Moogle: Rennteam Master; Loc: Bay Area , United States; Posts: 5019, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 9, 2003; Reply to: zoner3

Re: Porsche Fever

Back in 2002, I didn't think a 911 was 'worth it' -foolish me. and loved the mid engine layout... so I I got a Boxster S.

As I came to understand Porsche more, and drove more and more 911s, I developed a 'need' for one

In any case, these are all excellent cars and there is actually no way you can go wrong with any model in the Porsche range.

To answer your questions:

1. a wider tire, combined with a proper alignment, can yield amazing cornering ability. but 305 seems like overkill. the huge spacers will also stress the suspension.

2. hearing about other peoples choices won't help you, at the end of the day, you have to live with what you buy. personally i would never 'settle' for something when i want something else.

If you don't have a problem with buying used, there are plenty of excellent quality 996s out there.

You rather hastily dispatched the idea of a 996 because it it is a 'last generation' - but you also state your desire for a 911 AND budget concerns. It seems you want to have your cake and eat it too.

I should also advise, it is not wise to overstep yourself when buying something that will depreciate.

Not to sound harsh, but it seems you are contradicting yourself.

But anyway, like I said before, whatever you end up buying, A Porsche is a Porsche, and they are all some of the best cars in the world.

---However a 911 is still THE porsche

- you can't go wrong with ANY generation, and as advised by many wise people before me, buy the newest you an ***afford***.

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May 28, 2006 1:13:52 PM

The Groom: Expert; Loc: EU; Posts: 1779, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 23, 2005; Reply to: Moogle

Re: Porsche Fever

How about a slightly used 997? I think you should be able to find some already.

As Moogle wisely mentioned, going for a pre-owned 997 will cost less in the long run than a new Cayman S. Much less depreciation (a brand new car loses 10k the second you drive it off the dealer's lot, a pre-owned car does not).

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May 28, 2006 2:36:49 PM

SciFrog: Rennteam VIP; Loc: USA , United States; Posts: 9870, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 15, 2005; Reply to: The Groom

Re: Porsche Fever

California <-> convertible

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May 29, 2006 4:10:41 AM

cookie monster: Senior; Loc: US , United States; Posts: 564, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 8, 2005; Reply to: SciFrog

Re: Porsche Fever

zoner3 I am with you. I had just purchased a boxster s 987s brand new in arctic silver last year and had taken dlivery late March. To answer your question number 2, my answer is indeed yes. In fact, I only had my car for 2 months or so and I had been thinking the "what if?" question. What if I had gotten a 997 or even the cayman s? It was a mistake of me because I could well afford a 997 base but I had decided to not throw in so much for my first Porsche but I am starting to regret it for several reasons. The 987s being a Porsche handles very well being MR but it is still a roadster. I feel that even with 280 hp (in HK, most Porsches are tiptronic due to resell market factor) with a Tip S, the car to me is extremely underpowered and I feel that it is very much being held back due to political/marketing reason and same with CAYMAN S. It really depends on what you want if you want some open top fun you should opt for 987 s but if you want more power, I think you will have to go for a 997 S (not the base version). I had driven my friend's 997 base and surprisingly to me it did not feel very much different in terms of POWER compared to my 987 (they were both tip s). I think the reason is due to the fact that the 997 base is heavier and in fact to me feels a lot clumsier on corners and with my friend's 19", the car felt very slow. Then I said to myself if this was Porsche bread and butter, Porsche would be in trouble. Even a baby SLK 55 AMG or the M3 would outrun the Porsche base. Then I drove the Carrera S Tiptronic and then I said to myself "now that's more like it"... The carrera s with 355 hp had me saying to myself "it's fast".. Hence, if you are like me in it for the Power and the "push back jet pilot factor", there is no better place to start than a carrera s even a 1.5 year used one. If you were to take the 987s or the cayman s, I am afraid you will be grossly disappointed. As an amateur myself, I had test driven them both and I was sorry to tell the salesman that to me, they drove like the same car. The mere 15 hp upgrade or all the marketing jargons on how it was designed as a different car to me was pretty much all wallpapering the fact that Porsche needed freshness in its lineup and no doubt boxster was losing its charm to get new customers. The Cayman S was for those who enjoyed the curves of the back over a hunchback shape. Now to be honest, I actually like the new lines and curves of the Cayman S more but I regrettably must have to say to myself (of course I am always wrong so I just express my own opinions) that Porsche for marketing reason had held back the power of both the boxster and cayman which both could be as good as and as fast as any 997. Plus they were MR and in the long run would allow for more engine expansion. The fact that 997 is RR has had some limitations on Porsche's future plans to fight against many fast new comers. I hope my 2 cents help so judging from what you said, I would say yes, do not go for the 987s or cayman S. When I drove the Cayman S, I could not tell the difference and it still didn't feel fast to me. But then again, that's just me.

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May 29, 2006 5:22:45 AM

Lohlem: Newbie; Loc: Texas; Posts: 3, Gallery; Registered on: May 7, 2006; Reply to: cookie monster

Re: Porsche Fever

I drove all the same cars you did except the 996TT. I could buy any and chose the Cayman. It truly is an incredible car and out performs the 911 in all aspects - except acceleration, but it definitely isn't slow. The handling was what put it over the top for me. If they can make the 911 "feel" and handle like the Cayman, then you might have the perfect car.

This is one of those choices you can't get wrong. Pick one and I'm sure you'll be happy...

Paul

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May 29, 2006 12:00:20 PM

charliepug: Co-Pilot; Loc: Australia; Posts: 227, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 15, 2005; Reply to: Lohlem

Re: Porsche Fever

In 2000, I was dreaming of a P-car and when I test drove the 2.7 Boxster fell in love with it.I could not afford the 911 then and did not even test drive it as purchasing it was out of the question. I chose the tip btw and loved it. I had 5 years of bliss with it, and to me it was a "complete" package. Sure it was no hot-rod in the traffic light shoot-outs but I loved it for what it is/was, a fun open top roadster with agile handling, and now I still feel as if I was part of the car,and it was an extension of me, more so than the Carrera S I recently acquired. Story goes, after 5 years of hard work and saving I traded in the Box for my dream car the 911. But till now as much as I am getting to love my 911 I have not for one bit regretted my decision to go for the base Box, hell I couldn't even afford the S then. Zoner3 buy what you can afford and I'm sure you'll grow to love your Porsche whatever it is.

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May 29, 2006 12:21:43 PM

throt: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 6078, Gallery; Registered on: May 9, 2005; Reply to: charliepug

Re: Porsche Fever

@ zoner3 ,, If I were you I would buy PRIVATELY a slightly used 997 C2S , there's bargains out there with remaining warrantys still running . Going the USED route at a dealership imo can be a waste of money and you know your going to get shafted 90% of the time , jmo...

throt..

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May 29, 2006 8:19:19 PM

zoner3: Newbie; Loc: California; Posts: 5, Gallery; Registered on: May 28, 2006; Reply to: cookie monster

Re: Porsche Fever

Thanks for the feedback ptcja.

I agree that the 987S or the Cayman S have great handling but not that thrilling acceleration that I'm looking for. Frankly, even the M3 I owned for several years didn't feel super fast to me and I just never loved the car. The 997S is the only car of the cars I drove (other than the Turbo) which I feel I will not get bored with quickly. I've pretty much decided to get what I really want (the 997S) either through a used version or by saving a few more bones and waiting a year.

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May 29, 2006 9:06:57 PM

jlr: Junior; Loc: Birmingham, Alabama; Posts: 123, Gallery; Registered on: May 15, 2005; Reply to: zoner3

Re: Porsche Fever

I think you may be able to afford a 997S if you, as one poster remarked, buy privately. I sold my 997S a few months ago and I had to sell it a greater discount than the used 997S cars which were on dealer lots. Though price is obviously a factor, you might first check in with your gut -- which car ignites your passion? For some, it may be a mid-engined car. For others, the 911. I think the mid-engined cars are sufficiently different not be considered mere stepping stones to the 911. In my case, I realized that what I wanted was an older 911.

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May 29, 2006 9:30:44 PM

Cocodrilo: Co-Pilot; Loc: Miami , United States; Posts: 160, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 1, 2006; Reply to: jlr

Re: Porsche Fever

I got my croc last week and I couldnt be happier. Coming from a BMW 540 the Cayman is a faster car. Plenty of acceleration IMHO. I dont know why would anyone want more speed for street driving, the car rocks at all levels. Sure can use a few more HPs but thats a never ending story. I test drove a 997 back in March and other than the 911 mystique, I couldnt justify paying the extra , except for a Turbo or a GT3. Both cars are awesome, yet the middle engine platform is sooooo involving. Ah and those sexy rear hips did it for me. Had to have one.

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May 30, 2006 3:14:20 AM

cookie monster: Senior; Loc: US , United States; Posts: 564, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 8, 2005; Reply to: Cocodrilo

Re: Porsche Fever

zoner3, Cocodrilo is right the curves of the Cayman S is mesmerizing and sexy. As I did say I loved it more than the 911 but the 911 is pretty much a mystique to me. Frankly speaking, it is not the prettiest but is is certainly the icon. Think about it, just like Rolex, everyone thinks about the DAYTONA in stainless steel and it is simply ICON. When you wear it, people are like wow that's a DAYTONA. However, I do feel that you should pick a car based on your needs and likings. I owned a few mobiles back then and they were all convertibles. My first car was an M3 convertible and the M3 to me was a sports car but it felt too much like a normal 3 series. My next car was a 2005 SLK 350. I fell in love with it at the debut as I loved the mini SLR look but I grew tired of it after 9 months or so because the back looked disproportonately short. Plus the 3.5 L engine at 272 HP was supposedly to propel the car in the 7G tronic from 0-100 km/hr in 5.7 s but after driving it around town, I feel that the number was grossly understated. Afterall, it was still a MERCEDES and it rode and drove like a sedan. It was comfy and quiet and more like a tamed GT. Then this year, I have decided to own my first Porsche and it has been an exhilirating experience. I am a convert and I know I can never go back to anything else. You can never go wrong with Porsche. The engine, the handling and everything are just done right and the cars are very well put together. If you want some open top fun, I would definitely opt for the boxster s if you don't mind the STIGMA (I am afraid sometimes I do feel the Jeremy Clarkson effect...). The 987s handles very well in its MR setup. Now the only reason I have started to regret my choice is due to the fact that I have come to the realization that there is just very little chance for me to use the soft top. HK's air is getting more and more polluted and this is just a ridicule and I wonder if I will open the top for more than 30 times during my next 5 years worth of ownership. That is the sole reason why I wish I had opted for the CAYMAN S because there really is very little reason to buy a convertible in the city. If owning the M3 doesn't give you the feeling of "fast" (it certainly feels quite normal to me the last time I owned it), I have a feeling that you are more the "need for speed" style. I agree with you that some time pulling up at the lights and doing a bit of a drag race alone or with another car under a controlled risk environment could be fun.

However, one thing I am glad is that I may just be like Charlie Pug. You know the 987s is not the prettiest. It is definitely not the fastest and I don't even know if I can call it "fast" because it is more a roadster and a fun car... it is not in my dictionary anywhere near fast. Yet it may just leave the best mark. Why? Because it is my first Porsche and in case I am lucky and make more money in another 5 years, the next carrera will not mean the same to me anymore because this 987s as a proportion of my savings is quite large. The reason I did not buy the base 997 was because I have decided to save a few bugs for emergency usage. I could have gotten it but then I would have no buffer. Nonetheless it is a dear part of me. However, I do agree with Cocodrilo that I only wish Porsche would put in a few more horses in the box and the cayman. I keep wondering why since both cars handle so well given its MR setup (they could both be considered mini versions of the carrera GT), Porsche would give it a 3.6 or 3.8 330 or 355 hp because they could both handle those engines and definitely maybe even outperform the 911 using the same engines due to balance. Sometimes, I hate the idea that for a moment I start thinking that those naysayers said Porsche had it all wrong up the butt since day 1 maybe right. The perfect car to me now is indeed a Cayman S with a Carrera S engine put in.

Now Porsche is rolling out the Cayman 2.7 and I think that it is really more an ingenious marketing plan to roll out another generation of Boxster sort of fever as the Cayman charms many people into become Porsche converts. Sometimes, if you are the "need for speed" style, you may ask yourself why (for my case, I paid 120K USD all in tax included) pay 120K for a car with the Porsche Badge (fine it handles well...) that could be outrun by the next BMW 330i which is worth half your car. That is sometimes the main question and my cousin felt the same. That was why he couldn't stand getting the base CAYMAN because to him it was not worth it.

Yes, if you don't mind pre-owned vehicle and can find a well-conditioned one, find a 2004 carrera S. Alternatively, bite the bullet, eat a few more mcdonald's or on this side of the earth RICE BOX and get the new carrera S next year.

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May 30, 2006 8:12:18 PM

Yan: Newbie; Loc: WA; Posts: 20, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 3, 2005; Reply to: cookie monster

Re: Porsche Fever

zoner3, I bought my Cayman S becasue I wanted a daily driver that I didn't have to babysit all the time (NW rain & the rear engine does make things a bit trickier). I wanted the mid engine layout, I wanted 6 gears, I wanted flat 6... not too difficult choice... I even waited over a year to get it. No regrets. 911 may be faster out of turn, but the Cayman is plenty of trouble for silly 65MPH speed limit. 911 may be in my future, but not as my daily driver

my $0.02...

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May 31, 2006 9:28:18 PM

adrift: Co-Pilot; Loc: Texas; Posts: 277, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 8, 2005; Reply to: Yan

Re: Porsche Fever

Forget "prestige". Drive the car that gives you the most grins per mile. My choice is a mid-engined Porsche.

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Jun 1, 2006 10:45:50 AM

WAY: Rennteam Master; Loc: Melbourne, Australia; Posts: 3344, Gallery; Registered on: May 11, 2004; Reply to: adrift

Re: Porsche Fever

Zoner3, do you track your car? Do you drive your car fast (and I am not talking straight line either)? I do both of those, and I bought a 997C2. I had a Boxster S prior to that. I loved the Boxster S, it was an incredibly well balanced car and easy to drive. It was hard to make any mistakes on that car. When I heard that Porsche was going to make a coupe version, I was all but sold on it. However when I did get to test drive the Cayman S, it was a dissspointment for me. Sure it is still well balanced, but it lacks the traction and low down torque that makes the 997C2 such a better car in the twisties and on tight tracks. Also, when pushed, the Cayman S is not as well sorted and as forgiving as a Boxster S. In fact, it can be rather frigtening on the hands of amateurs when driving 9 10th and above. I never bothered test driving the 997S back to back with the standard 997, as I knew I would just want that and 997 was already a stretch. But I am sure it is that much better again!

At the end of the day though, the Cayman S is a fantastic car. It also comes down to what you want to use it for.

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Jun 1, 2006 1:34:29 PM

adrift: Co-Pilot; Loc: Texas; Posts: 277, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 8, 2005; Reply to: WAY

Re: Porsche Fever

Practically every magazine in print (including Oprah!) has named the Cayman the best handling non-GT-model Porsche out there.

On the other hand, the next few years may see an even better incarnation...a CS model perhaps. So I am in the wait-and-watch mode on a Cayman, personally.

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Jun 3, 2006 12:52:33 AM

zoner3: Newbie; Loc: California; Posts: 5, Gallery; Registered on: May 28, 2006; Reply to: adrift

Re: Porsche Fever

Definitely some strong arguments for and against the Cayman S. Didn't help the Cayman S case when the dealer (and others on Rennteam.com) indicated that the 2007 Boxster S will have 295 HP to match the Cayman S. However, today I spoke with my enthusiast buddy, whose opinion I respect very much, and he indicated if he wasn't so tall, he'd be driving a Cayman S. That and the exclusivity of the car for the next few years until Porsche sells enough Cayman's. Living in Southern California, I've still seen very few Cayman's on the road but see the 997 almost every day.

One of these days I'll figure it out. I guess I have to just keep test driving until I do.

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