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    997 Turbo TIP drive impression in Auto Bild...

    ...not so impressive! I will try to put short summery in English later. Any way link is here:
    http://www.autobild.de/aktuell/reportagen/artikel.php?artikel_id=11282&artikel_seite=0

    Re: 997 Turbo TIP drive impression in Auto Bild...

    seems like they don't like the tip transmission, the engine sound (or lack of it) and the multitude of buttons on the dash

    Re: 997 Turbo TIP drive impression in Auto Bild...

    Thanks KresoF1.

    Their review didn't sound that bad in Google translated english, apart from what Alan pointed out. And at least they provided some nice pictures

    Re: 997 Turbo TIP drive impression in Auto Bild...

    And I liked the comparison pictures with the original Turbo, check out this interior

    speaking of sound, was driving behind a 430 spider yesterday

    What a glorious sound as the car downshifted entering a toll booth and then accelerated away. What a presence on the highway in terms of looks and sound!

    Re: 997 Turbo TIP drive impression in Auto Bild...

    LOL... that must've been the Burberry edition.

    Re: 997 Turbo TIP drive impression in Auto Bild...

    Quote:
    SoCalHoosier said:
    LOL... that must've been the Burberry edition.



    Ahaha, I was thinking the same :-)
    Somebody tells us this is not base from factory !!!

    Re: 997 Turbo TIP drive impression in Auto Bild...

    Quote:
    Alan(NJ) said:
    seems like they don't like the tip transmission, the engine sound (or lack of it) and the multitude of buttons on the dash


    Well, the exhaust sound can be fixed (after the companies learn to make one for the VTG turbos), but I'm not surprised about the Tip. This seems like a big mistake for an enthusiast driver. I think this is only suitable for drag racers or commuters in crowded cities (but why use a TT as a commuter?).

    Re: 997 Turbo TIP drive impression in Auto Bild...

    Quote:
    Grant said:
    Quote:
    Alan(NJ) said:
    seems like they don't like the tip transmission, the engine sound (or lack of it) and the multitude of buttons on the dash


    Well, the exhaust sound can be fixed (after the companies learn to make one for the VTG turbos), but I'm not surprised about the Tip. This seems like a big mistake for an enthusiast driver. I think this is only suitable for drag racers or commuters in crowded cities (but why use a TT as a commuter?).



    One reason one of the posters here indicated was luck of funds for another car, which would serve as a beater, but with almost the same capability as the Turbo, in case of a dangerous situation on the road.
    I find the argument silly, since any half-decent car will handle such situations just fine.

    Re: 997 Turbo TIP drive impression in Auto Bild...

    I'm lovin that Cobalt!!!

    Re: 997 Turbo TIP drive impression in Auto Bild...

    Quote:
    Jeannot said:
    Quote:
    SoCalHoosier said:
    LOL... that must've been the Burberry edition.



    Ahaha, I was thinking the same :-)
    Somebody tells us this is not base from factory !!!



    Yes, and so was this , another factory interior . People are so conservative today, all black clothes, all silver/grey cars with black /silver interiors. Everyone is an Oakland Raiders football fan, I guess. :



    Re: 997 Turbo TIP drive impression in Auto Bild...

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    Grant said:
    Quote:
    Alan(NJ) said:
    seems like they don't like the tip transmission, the engine sound (or lack of it) and the multitude of buttons on the dash


    Well, the exhaust sound can be fixed (after the companies learn to make one for the VTG turbos), but I'm not surprised about the Tip. This seems like a big mistake for an enthusiast driver. I think this is only suitable for drag racers or commuters in crowded cities (but why use a TT as a commuter?).



    One reason one of the posters here indicated was luck of funds for another car, which would serve as a beater, but with almost the same capability as the Turbo, in case of a dangerous situation on the road.
    I find the argument silly, since any half-decent car will handle such situations just fine.



    Rather difficult to predict where/when accids occur. If in a poss collision situation, I suspect most who can actually afford $150K cars would prefer to be in a car w/optimum active safety capabilities to avoid accid (and inevitable litig vs the deeper-pocketed party in US)....and if accid occurs, would certainly want to be in a car that maximizes odds of no injury/surgeries/life-long chronic pain and suffering/death to driver/passgrs....i.e., let the damn insured, easily replaceable car be the "beater", absorbing the crash forces, rather than offering up the affluent owner's body/head/spine as the "beater"....

    IMO, safest car on planet is 997TT ....and if 997TT weren't avail, I'd commute via '07 S/CL65, as the only acceptable, though slightly less safe (and much less fun) alternative....

    Re: 997 Turbo TIP drive impression in Auto Bild...

    please anyone could traslate the text to english!? i don't speak deutschland

    Re: 997 Turbo TIP drive impression in Auto Bild...

    Quote:
    xandi911 said:
    please anyone could traslate the text to english!? i don't speak deutschland


    This is a direct translation courtesy of babelfish..:-)
    Of Joerg Maltzan "of the turbo", says Klaus bishop andaechtig, "was always which completely special." Of Porsche museum boss stands before work 1 in Zuffenhausen and looks on the green Elfer with the thick tail fenders. "the Ferry belonged, the boss." Silence. Still more devotion. Still more reverence. The former service car of mark founder Ferdinand Anton Ernst Porsche is year of construction 1976, looks however, as if it came straight only off the line. Its Tacho shows only 13,402 kilometers - a few marks of the Swabian company headquarters into its Austrian homeland and back. If Porsche gets such Pretiose from holy resounding, there must be an important cause for it. The reason parks directly beside it: blue 911 turbo of the current series 997, brand-new, starting from June 2006 with the dealer. Between both Elfern 30 years lie, nevertheless see themselves many more similar them, than their disparity in age lets assume. Rather they seem 15 to separate perhaps 20 years. But never and never three decades. Whether roof line, doors or tail cover - which are formal relationship astonishing and proves, how progressive the Ur-turbo was already in the middle of the seventies. Its grandchild is not Retromodell, but - depending upon counting method - continuation of a sports car Mytholgie sieved. Consequence one falls in the oil-crisis-vibrated year 1974. Despite recession Porsche on that presents Paris salon the first 911 turbo. The racing-established technology is a sensation. With petrol engines there was exhaust loading in Europe to date only from the Ford ford-Tuner Michael May for the Capri as well as with BMW the 2002 turbo. Although it looks like a typical Elfer, it is so strongly modified under the sheet metal that it got its own numeric code: Porsche 930. By means of turbine the achievement of the boxers rises opposite strongest 911 (Carerra 2,7) of 210 to 260 HP - enough for speed 250 and thus the connection to the Italo Exoten of Ferrari and Lamborghini. With large tail wing and broad cheeks he could keep up also stylistic well.
    Page 2
    32 years after its debut turbo number one lends still to wings. With kehligem Raeuspern it starts and falls into a bollernden no-load operation. It pushes loosely surprisingly evenly. Of school old because of turbo: There are no hole and no HP explosion. The achievement development is even cultivated and free from today's view of those table reserved for regulars Dramatik, which branded the 911 turbo of the early years gladly as unfahrbar and lethal. It straightforward goes at least so long. On kurviger highway however it demands a well-informed hand. In the field of vision the two fenders such as torpedo pipes, under which the road Limbo dances. The fact that the Ur-turbo seems to drive thereby never really straightforward increases the driving pleasure. Genuinly animal: Times it schnueffelt like a dog at the right edge of the lane, then it steps suddenly like a horse with the Hinterlauf and squints on the Gegenspur. Depending upon position of the gas pedal and presses he pushes times to the right or left. It becomes correctly malicious on wet roadway as well as during wrong handling. Particularly in the speed range around 4000/min caution is required. Then the full load pressure of 0,8 bar lies close. Is called: 343 Newtonmeters fall over the rear axle ago, and which can tilt good-natured lowest of you tendency Porsche in sudden overriding. Against turners or the takeoff into the Botanik only lightning-like, courageous guidance reactions protect. The 930 did not however only rank among the fastest sport cars of the world, but also to the luxurioesesten. Even heatable tail and windshield as well as complete leather equipment belonged to the series extent. For the price of 65.000 Marks one could have bought however also a free-hold flat in good situation.
    Page 3
    In it changed little. Current 911 turbo 133,603 euro cost, also a few extras fast to 150.000. However the ceramic(s) brake computes Porsche with scarcely 8500 euro. Like at that time the loaded Elfer the most expensive model is times refrained in the Porsche price list - from the running out Carrera GT. With entering the common genes blur increasingly. The upholstered seats in the new turbo are noticeably more tautly, the side stop better, the overview meanwhile unfortunately more badly. An important guideline assistance is missing in front: no visible headlight casings more, which dominated the eleven-he front as pinpointing edges to 1993 saliently. In the direct comparison obtain alto against new the 2006er-Turbo fortress-like security. The multiplicity of switches and buttons works confusing, at driving fascination the 911 turbo however nothing lost. It is however another fascination, is fed from the perfect balance between drive, steering element and electronic active chassis. Although today 480 HP the 911 accelerate, one has the feeling, this car is over-motorized never. Completely in the opposite: The force development begins already with 2000/min vehement and presses the passengers enormously into the seats, but it does not work uncontrollably. Reason: Since 1995 turbo- Elfer have all-wheel drive and Biturboaufladung, which does not only improve the predictability in critical driving conditions. New 911 turbo is a supersports car, which competes as once with eight or Zwoelfzylinder zwoelfzylinder-Boliden from Italy. A Null-auf-100-Zeit of 3.7 seconds and 310 km/h point are directly breath-robbing, the seating position perfect and the guidance feeling first cream. Who describes the turbo, the superlative fires as fast as its 3,6-Liter-Motor expensive super plus.
    Page 4
    In it changed little. Current 911 turbo 133,603 euro cost, also a few extras fast to 150.000. However the ceramic(s) brake computes Porsche with scarcely 8500 euro. Like at that time the loaded Elfer the most expensive model is times refrained in the Porsche price list - from the running out Carrera GT. With entering the common genes blur increasingly. The upholstered seats in the new turbo are noticeably more tautly, the side stop better, the overview meanwhile unfortunately more badly. An important guideline assistance is missing in front: no visible headlight casings more, which dominated the eleven-he front as pinpointing edges to 1993 saliently. In the direct comparison obtain alto against new the 2006er-Turbo fortress-like security. The multiplicity of switches and buttons works confusing, at driving fascination the 911 turbo however nothing lost. It is however another fascination, is fed from the perfect balance between drive, steering element and electronic active chassis. Although today 480 HP the 911 accelerate, one has the feeling, this car is over-motorized never. Completely in the opposite: The force development begins already with 2000/min vehement and presses the passengers enormously into the seats, but it does not work uncontrollably. Reason: Since 1995 turbo- Elfer have all-wheel drive and Biturboaufladung, which does not only improve the predictability in critical driving conditions. New 911 turbo is a supersports car, which competes as once with eight or Zwoelfzylinder zwoelfzylinder-Boliden from Italy. A Null-auf-100-Zeit of 3.7 seconds and 310 km/h point are directly breath-robbing, the seating position perfect and the guidance feeling first cream. Who describes the turbo, the superlative fires as fast as its 3,6-Liter-Motor expensive super plus.

    Straight translations like this are seldom perfect...hope it helps with the german deficiency..

    Re: 997 Turbo TIP drive impression in Auto Bild...

    Well... babelfish works as good as it gets.
    But, you forget most important part of article:
    "Mit der Tiptronic S ist er übrigens schneller als mit Schaltgetriebe. Zu empfehlen ist sie trotzdem nicht. Der Wandlerautomat ist gefühlsmäßig immer noch ein Spaßverderber. "
    In free translation: With TIP turbo is faster then with manual gearbox. But, we do not recommend it. The torque converter(or slush box-my free interpretation) is still fun killer.

    Re: 997 Turbo TIP drive impression in Auto Bild...

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Well... babelfish works as good as it gets.
    But, you forget most important part of article:
    "Mit der Tiptronic S ist er übrigens schneller als mit Schaltgetriebe. Zu empfehlen ist sie trotzdem nicht. Der Wandlerautomat ist gefühlsmäßig immer noch ein Spaßverderber. "
    In free translation: With TIP turbo is faster then with manual gearbox. But, we do not recommend it. The torque converter(or slush box-my free interpretation) is still fun killer.


    Does it say anything more about Tip than that sentence?

    Re: 997 Turbo TIP drive impression in Auto Bild...

    No, but German is little bit different then English in expression... "Der Wandlerautomat ist gefühlsmäßig immer noch ein Spaßverderber." In plain english you could say that TIP is still in feeling and driving experience the fun killer. My friend who is member of auto press in germany drove both TIP and manual and he think the same about TIP version. He said to me that TIP is fast as hell but, extremly odd in feeling for him. And electronic brain sometimes changes gears even in manual mode! For him this version is truly best alternative for SL55/65AMGs.

    Re: 997 Turbo TIP drive impression in Auto Bild...

    Quote:
    VKSF said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    Grant said:
    Quote:
    Alan(NJ) said:
    seems like they don't like the tip transmission, the engine sound (or lack of it) and the multitude of buttons on the dash


    Well, the exhaust sound can be fixed (after the companies learn to make one for the VTG turbos), but I'm not surprised about the Tip. This seems like a big mistake for an enthusiast driver. I think this is only suitable for drag racers or commuters in crowded cities (but why use a TT as a commuter?).



    One reason one of the posters here indicated was luck of funds for another car, which would serve as a beater, but with almost the same capability as the Turbo, in case of a dangerous situation on the road.
    I find the argument silly, since any half-decent car will handle such situations just fine.



    Rather difficult to predict where/when accids occur. If in a poss collision situation, I suspect most who can actually afford $150K cars would prefer to be in a car w/optimum active safety capabilities to avoid accid (and inevitable litig vs the deeper-pocketed party in US)....and if accid occurs, would certainly want to be in a car that maximizes odds of no injury/surgeries/life-long chronic pain and suffering/death to driver/passgrs....i.e., let the damn insured, easily replaceable car be the "beater", absorbing the crash forces, rather than offering up the affluent owner's body/head/spine as the "beater"....

    IMO, safest car on planet is 997TT ....and if 997TT weren't avail, I'd commute via '07 S/CL65, as the only acceptable, though slightly less safe (and much less fun) alternative....



    Oh, now I remember. It was you ! I wouldn't go as far with the overglorification of Turbo safety, as IMO an Audi Quattro would be a great (and relatively cost-effective) choice. Of course it can't match a sports car, but it's a darn good choice, and safe too.

    Re: 997 Turbo TIP drive impression in Auto Bild...

    Damn, I got a massive head ache reading it.

    Re: 997 Turbo TIP drive impression in Auto Bild...

    The press can turn black into white and white into black, depending on how you write an article. But letting that aside: don't you guys miss something in the car tested in Autobild? Not to mention the fact, that Autobild really doesn't have the best reputation over here since it is directly related to BILD Zeitung, Germany's top daily "boulevard" newspaper, a mixture of National Enquirer and USA Today.

    Right, guys: the tested car had no Sport Chrono Package!

    And if you want to read exactly the opposite, check out Auto Zeitung.

    The problem with car journalists is a simple one: most of them drive home in a Toyota Camry or a VW Golf, Audi A4, whatever. I think you get my point. This is the same like putting ME in a VW Golf Diesel with 75 HP and having me put together a review. Impossible, what do I know about 75 HP cars with a Diesel engine, even my first car 23 years ago had more power.

    So whoever ordered Tiptronic, relax. Also check the Ferrari forum, there was a discussion started by a swiss User, who questioned the credibility of the german car press based on a single scandal...involving Autobild and one of their reporters. Sorry guys, I trust only one german car magazine to a full extent: SPORT AUTO. And maybe even Auto Zeitung, they're small but I like their sportscar articles, they show a lot of enthusiasm. Like the latest one, a comparison between the new Corvette Z06 and the new Gallardo SE, both driven by the danish race driver Kurt Thiim. Bottom line of this TRACK comparison: a tight track favors the AWD equipped Gallardo SE, the Z06 needs faster curves or straights to play it's power/weight advantage. In the end, the Gallardo SE achieves a slightly (half a second or so) better track time but it is slightly slowlier up to 125 mph. And Kurt Thiim liked the Corvette Z06 much better than the Gallardo SE but he made it clear that the Z06 requires an experienced driver to be able to drive it at the limit.
    He also was very impressed with the good brake of the Z06, the ONLY thing he criticized on the Z06 was the bad sidegrip of the seats at the limit.
    This article mentioned at the end, that the Z06 is actually the first car to hit Gallardo performance grounds that easy. And in the last sentence they mention that the the cards will be drawn again when the new 997 Turbo finally shows up.

    And as a little sidenote: four different german car magazines already tested the Corvette Z06 and it is no surprise (well, maybe for Nick ) that they liked it. But none of the tested cars did the 0-100/125 mph acceleration times achieved in most US magazines, the 0-125 mph was always in the 12-13 seconds range, never below 12 seconds.

    Re: 997 Turbo TIP drive impression in Auto Bild...

    Quote:
    RC said: ... But none of the tested cars did the 0-100/125 mph acceleration times achieved in most US magazines, the 0-125 mph was always in the 12-13 seconds range, never below 12 seconds.



    The US magazines seem to have fallen under a spell of "duplicating" formal drag strip conditions.

    This means that they program "adjustments" into their VBOX test gear to simulate roll-out and use a minimum speed trigger of 1 or 2 mph. This causes the start of the measurement to "wait" until the car is already moving a little bit. Just like the drag strip!

    All sorts of differences in the measurements might result

    Re: 997 Turbo TIP drive impression in Auto Bild...

    Quote:
    W8MM said:
    Quote:
    RC said: ... But none of the tested cars did the 0-100/125 mph acceleration times achieved in most US magazines, the 0-125 mph was always in the 12-13 seconds range, never below 12 seconds.



    The US magazines seem to have fallen under a spell of "duplicating" formal drag strip conditions.

    This means that they program "adjustments" into their VBOX test gear to simulate roll-out and use a minimum speed trigger of 1 or 2 mph. This causes the start of the measurement to "wait" until the car is already moving a little bit. Just like the drag strip!

    All sorts of differences in the measurements might result



    That would go a long way towards explaining the discrepancies between the 0-60 mph / 0-100 km/h times published by US and European magazines.

    Re: 997 Turbo TIP drive impression in Auto Bild...

    Quote:
    Ron (Houston) said:
    Damn, I got a massive head ache reading it.



    Yeh, German does that to you.

    Re: 997 Turbo TIP drive impression in Auto Bild...

    THANKS LORANTW! but the last page you repeat with the 3rd!

    someone can explain?? "The torque converter(or slush box-my free interpretation) is still fun killer"

    Re: 997 Turbo TIP drive impression in Auto Bild...

    Quote:
    xandi911 said:
    THANKS LORANTW! but the last page you repeat with the 3rd!

    someone can explain?? "The torque converter(or slush box-my free interpretation) is still fun killer"


    Slush box is a negative slang name for "automatic transmission" that uses a traditional hydraulic torque converter, rather than the automatics used by BMW SMG and Ferrari F1 and Audi DSG, etc. that are manual transmissions with a clutch (or two) that are controlled by a computer. I guess this article is saying that the Tiptronic spoiled all the fun...

    Re: 997 Turbo TIP drive impression in Auto Bild...

    Quote:
    W8MM said:
    Quote:
    RC said: ... But none of the tested cars did the 0-100/125 mph acceleration times achieved in most US magazines, the 0-125 mph was always in the 12-13 seconds range, never below 12 seconds.



    The US magazines seem to have fallen under a spell of "duplicating" formal drag strip conditions.

    This means that they program "adjustments" into their VBOX test gear to simulate roll-out and use a minimum speed trigger of 1 or 2 mph. This causes the start of the measurement to "wait" until the car is already moving a little bit. Just like the drag strip!

    All sorts of differences in the measurements might result



    Mike, wich car magazines are doing that? That claim seems a bit too universal for the entire US automotive press. It makes great fodder for those seeking anyway to discredit whatever auto test claim they want.

    Different "journalists" test cars differently. Road and Track states that they do launches in a way that they think any owner could. Car and Driver claims are all over the map, sometimes they say they hammer the cars off the line and sometimes they bemoan track temp and just turkey it off the line. With Motortrend you never know what they will do, but in the automobile magazine publishing world they are known as the clutch killers.

    ........

    Warning, This post contains gratuitous sarcasm and irony. It may be objectionable to those without a sense of humor, those with only a literal comprehension of the English language, or those have visited or lived in the State of New Jersey.

    Re: 997 Turbo TIP drive impression in Auto Bild...

    i don't think i would get the Tip just because it's a few tenths of a second faster.

    Re: 997 Turbo TIP drive impression in Auto Bild...

    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Quote:
    W8MM said:
    Quote:
    RC said: ... But none of the tested cars did the 0-100/125 mph acceleration times achieved in most US magazines, the 0-125 mph was always in the 12-13 seconds range, never below 12 seconds.



    The US magazines seem to have fallen under a spell of "duplicating" formal drag strip conditions.

    This means that they program "adjustments" into their VBOX test gear to simulate roll-out and use a minimum speed trigger of 1 or 2 mph. This causes the start of the measurement to "wait" until the car is already moving a little bit. Just like the drag strip!

    All sorts of differences in the measurements might result



    That would go a long way towards explaining the discrepancies between the 0-60 mph / 0-100 km/h times published by US and European magazines.



    You guys might be way off base. So consider this.

    Do German Testers perform burn outs before they line up at the christmas tree? And how many runs do they make and do they let the engine cool down between runs?

    I think that there might be a huge gap between a German
    testers launch technique and some USA testers. Do German testers use USA drag strip driving techniques that enhance launch and accelleration times? I dont think so. Hence the disparity in timing numbers.

    I am glad to see that Porsche has "discovered" and is introducing torque braking to Europeans. But it is something that has been a common drag strip launch technique for automatics in the US for many decades.

    And leave it to Porsche to build the worlds best off the showroom bracket racer - The 997TT Tip. Im sure that them building what has to be the worlds best stock class bracket racer was completely unintended and that they also have no idea of what bracket racing even is.

    And if Porsche could integrate a christmas tree light sensor into the control network of the TT Tip they would own the bracket racing world lock, stock and barrel.

    .........

    Warning, This post contains gratuitous sarcasm and irony. It may be objectionable to those without a sense of humor, those with only a literal comprehension of the English language, or those have visited or lived in the State of New Jersey.

    Re: 997 Turbo TIP drive impression in Auto Bild...

    Might as well put a timer on it to break down the tree..:-)and all thats required then is good brain foot coordination...:-) The car does the rest...but only faster

    Re: 997 Turbo TIP drive impression in Auto Bild...

    For New Foundlanders, the 997TT Tip will launch itself for the sake of public safety.

    .........

    Warning, This post contains gratuitous sarcasm and irony. It may be objectionable to those without a sense of humor, those with only a literal comprehension of the English language, or those have visited or lived in the State of New Jersey.

     
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