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Re: How to cut an Aventador into half...
Mithras:
Way too fast but that car just turned right in front of him... Speeding fine for one, dangerous driving for the other.
In Germany: Speeding fine (and maybe criminal charges for the Lambo driver) and nothing for the other one. 
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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)
Re: How to cut an Aventador into half...
Sure he was speeding but there were no cars behind him, what on go'd green earth would make someone decide to turn left IN FRONT of an oncoming car, especially one that is going too fast? The distances weren't that great!
And you look at the damage to the Mazda and it isn't all that bad. A write-off sure, but...
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Sep 24, 2013 5:03:03 AM
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Re: How to cut an Aventador into half...
RC:
Mithras:
Way too fast but that car just turned right in front of him... Speeding fine for one, dangerous driving for the other.
In Germany: Speeding fine (and maybe criminal charges for the Lambo driver) and nothing for the other one.
That doesn't seem fair when the driver in the Mazda clearly either wasn't paying attention or lost control (suspect the former - driver sending a text, changing a CD or whatever) went across the Lamborghini's path - who had nowhere to go. 
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Porsche 997 Carrera S PDK Aqua Blue / Black - Skoda Octavia Mk.3 daily drive
Re: How to cut an Aventador into half...
dreamcar:
RC:
Mithras:
Way too fast but that car just turned right in front of him... Speeding fine for one, dangerous driving for the other.
In Germany: Speeding fine (and maybe criminal charges for the Lambo driver) and nothing for the other one.
That doesn't seem fair when the driver in the Mazda clearly either wasn't paying attention or lost control (suspect the former - driver sending a text, changing a CD or whatever) went across the Lamborghini's path - who had nowhere to go.
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Porsche 997 Carrera S PDK Aqua Blue / Black - Skoda Octavia Mk.3 daily drive
A German judge would argue that the Lambo was so fast that the Mazda driver couldn't see him in time. Trust me, this is how it works when cars are speeding here. You speed, you loose. The "other" one usually gets away completely.
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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)
Sep 24, 2013 8:29:32 AM
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huangester
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RC
Re: How to cut an Aventador into half...
LP700 is going too fast, and Mazda driver visually could not determine how fast LP700 (not his/her fault). This is 100%LP700's fault. Normal road speed he could stop to avoid the crash.... LP700 is taking the risk on other road user.... If the driver in Mazda die, then LP700 would be going to jail!
Sep 24, 2013 10:39:06 AM
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RC
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Re: How to cut an Aventador into half...
huangester:
LP700 is going too fast, and Mazda driver visually could not determine how fast LP700 (not his/her fault). This is 100%LP700's fault. Normal road speed he could stop to avoid the crash.... LP700 is taking the risk on other road user.... If the driver in Mazda die, then LP700 would be going to jail!
This is exactly how a German judge would see the case...and in this case, he would be right. You don't speed in high density residential areas, this is just too dangerous.
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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)
Re: How to cut an Aventador into half...
RC:
huangester:
LP700 is going too fast, and Mazda driver visually could not determine how fast LP700 (not his/her fault). This is 100%LP700's fault. Normal road speed he could stop to avoid the crash.... LP700 is taking the risk on other road user.... If the driver in Mazda die, then LP700 would be going to jail!
This is exactly how a German judge would see the case...and in this case, he would be right. You don't speed in high density residential areas, this is just too dangerous.
Whilst the Lambo was obviously going too fast, the Mazda's driver had plenty of time to see him and take avoiding action if he had been driving with only normal care and attention. Both drivers would be prosecuted on the basis of that video.
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fritz
Re: How to cut an Aventador into half...
Common sense dictates that a car going straight has the right of way before cars doing turns, especially left turns, so the fault lies with the Mazda. The Aventador was speeding so it will mitigate Mazda's driver's share of fault but not completely.
From my neck of the woods, the insurance company will assess 50% blame on each driver. Had the Aventador not been speeding, it will be 100% fault on the Mazda. Our insurance company will increase the premium for both drivers as a result, as they consider a driver is at fault if they are found to be more than 49% liable.
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Re: How to cut an Aventador into half...
Whoopsy:
Common sense dictates that a car going straight has the right of way before cars doing turns, especially left turns, so the fault lies with the Mazda. The Aventador was speeding so it will mitigate Mazda's driver's share of fault but not completely.
From my neck of the woods, the insurance company will assess 50% blame on each driver. Had the Aventador not been speeding, it will be 100% fault on the Mazda. Our insurance company will increase the premium for both drivers as a result, as they consider a driver is at fault if they are found to be more than 49% liable.
That's pretty generous. Some European insurers will disallow your "no-claims bonus" even if you are just an innocent victim of someone else's driving error.
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fritz
Re: How to cut an Aventador into half...
Oh, get hit with no fault of your own in canada a few times and your insurance will still go up... Just not like this it going to do.
I agree with Whoopsy 100% though on his take on things.
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Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region
Re: How to cut an Aventador into half...
Where I live, we only have one insurance company, monopoly on car insurance, it's a semi-government corporation. Believe me, they are not generous at all, they try to assess 50-50 blame on every accidents even if it doesn't make sense just so they can increase premium on both drivers.
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Sep 24, 2013 4:32:06 PM
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Whoopsy
Re: How to cut an Aventador into half...
A few posters suggest that the Aventador is traveling too fast; however, what is not noted is the speed limit for that section of road. I know of numerous roads, similar in appearance, with speed limits of 50 to 60 mph.
Regardless of how fast the Lamborghini was traveling, the other driver did not yield the right of way to oncoming traffic before turning left. That driver is at fault as the Lamborghini was clearly visible up to the time of the accident. The speed of the Lamborghini is a secondary factor, not the primary factor of causation.
Sep 26, 2013 12:46:03 PM
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RC
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Re: How to cut an Aventador into half...
CGX car nut:
A few posters suggest that the Aventador is traveling too fast; however, what is not noted is the speed limit for that section of road. I know of numerous roads, similar in appearance, with speed limits of 50 to 60 mph.
Regardless of how fast the Lamborghini was traveling, the other driver did not yield the right of way to oncoming traffic before turning left. That driver is at fault as the Lamborghini was clearly visible up to the time of the accident. The speed of the Lamborghini is a secondary factor, not the primary factor of causation.
I agree, we do not know the legal speed limit but I know a couple of cases where drivers were in a similar situation and the judge always gave them full blame.
Most "absurd" ruling: A customer of mine was doing 220 kph on the Autobahn, when a smaller car moved to his lane to pass a truck at around 120 kph. My customer hit the smaller car in the rear at around 180 kph, both crashed into the middle plank of the Autobahn and both were hurt badly, the other driver spent three months in the hospital, my customer almost three weeks. The judge ruled that although there wasn't a speed limit on that Autobahn, my customer should have respected the recommendation of 130 kph (this is the recommended speed in Germany when there is no speed limit), so he partially blamed my customer. Because the other guy in the small car spent more time in the hospital, my customer got 60% of the blame and the other one 40%. Unbelievable.
Similar decisions in other cases, the blame was divided or in one case, one got 100% of the blame because he had "points" on his license from a prior "safety distance violation" and the judge assumed that he didn't keep a safe distance to avoid the accident (similar stuff...he drives on the Autobahn, car moves on his lane...this time without blinking!!!).
I wouldn't want to be a traffic violation lawyer, must be pretty tough.
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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)
Sep 30, 2013 3:35:56 PM
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RC
Re: How to cut an Aventador into half...
RC:
CGX car nut:
A few posters suggest that the Aventador is traveling too fast; however, what is not noted is the speed limit for that section of road. I know of numerous roads, similar in appearance, with speed limits of 50 to 60 mph.
Regardless of how fast the Lamborghini was traveling, the other driver did not yield the right of way to oncoming traffic before turning left. That driver is at fault as the Lamborghini was clearly visible up to the time of the accident. The speed of the Lamborghini is a secondary factor, not the primary factor of causation.
I agree, we do not know the legal speed limit but I know a couple of cases where drivers were in a similar situation and the judge always gave them full blame.
Most "absurd" ruling: A customer of mine was doing 220 kph on the Autobahn, when a smaller car moved to his lane to pass a truck at around 120 kph. My customer hit the smaller car in the rear at around 180 kph, both crashed into the middle plank of the Autobahn and both were hurt badly, the other driver spent three months in the hospital, my customer almost three weeks. The judge ruled that although there wasn't a speed limit on that Autobahn, my customer should have respected the recommendation of 130 kph (this is the recommended speed in Germany when there is no speed limit), so he partially blamed my customer. Because the other guy in the small car spent more time in the hospital, my customer got 60% of the blame and the other one 40%. Unbelievable.
Similar decisions in other cases, the blame was divided or in one case, one got 100% of the blame because he had "points" on his license from a prior "safety distance violation" and the judge assumed that he didn't keep a safe distance to avoid the accident (similar stuff...he drives on the Autobahn, car moves on his lane...this time without blinking!!!).
I wouldn't want to be a traffic violation lawyer, must be pretty tough.
The language of the law in the State of New York is very precise:
"§ 1141. Vehicle turning left. The driver of a vehicle intending to
turn to the left within an intersection or into an alley, private road, or driveway shall yield the right of way to any vehicle approaching from the opposite direction which is within the intersection or so close as to constitute an immediate hazard." (emphasis added."
Sep 30, 2013 3:42:32 PM
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RC
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Re: How to cut an Aventador into half...
RC:
Even if the car is so fast that you cannot see it?
We have the same laws in Germany but they apply ONLY if the speed limit is respected.
If you look at the video, there was no question in this instance of the Lambo not having been visible in good time for the car turning left to have been able to react.
Whilst the Lambo was presumably speeding, the other car's driver was most certainly slumbering.
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fritz
Re: How to cut an Aventador into half...
fritz:
RC:
Even if the car is so fast that you cannot see it?
If you look at the video, there was no question in this instance of the Lambo not having been visible in good time for the car turning left to have been able to react.
Whilst the Lambo was presumably speeding, the other car's driver was most certainly slumbering.
+1
The left turning driver would have been able to see the oncoming car.
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Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region
Re: How to cut an Aventador into half...
fritz:
bridggar:
Unless she's deaf, she'd be able to hear it coming!!!
Ha yes. I can see what you've done there.
Well... it has to be a she, no? The Lambo driver surely is a guy. 
I guess Suzy just prepares to kill us all here... 
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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)
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