News on the VW-Porsche merger
http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20111115/ANE/311159983/1193
A purchase by VW, easier and more likely ?
--
"Form follows function"
Crown
Board: Porsche
Language: English
Region: Worldwide
Close
CloseForum - Thread
--
Re: News on the VW-Porsche merger
Very interesting. I've always been fascinated by the antics among Ferdinand's grand-children to prove who are the most "authentic" members of the gene pool. Who is the most true "car guy" and who has the business sense to carry it out. The sons' branch was riding high on non-car operations resembling a hedge fund until reality in the financial markets came calling. Then, the daughter's progeny made a come-back when real car business resumed its dominant role.
Truly fascinating.
--
Mike
2005 Carrera GT + 2008 Tesla Roadster +2010 Panamera Turbo + 2001 BMW Z8 + 1972 BMW 3.0 CSi +2009 Bentley Arnage T
Jan 10, 2012 5:28:15 PM
- Spyderidol
- Rennteam Master
-
- Loc: Mozambique
- Posts: 5807, Gallery
- Registered on: Apr 25, 2007
- Reply to: W8MM
Jan 10, 2012 5:45:18 PM
- Grant
- Rennteam VIP
-
- Loc: Denver, CO , United States
- Posts: 12588, Gallery
- Registered on: Aug 21, 2002
- Reply to: Spyderidol
Re: News on the VW-Porsche merger
Some clarifications below and possible alternatives to a merger.
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/vw-might-buy-out-porsche-brand-in-lieu-of-merger-2012-01-09
--
"Form follows function"
Re: News on the VW-Porsche merger
Hmm, instead of VW taking over Porsche to assume the risk, do it the other way, make VW a subsidiary of Porsche and problem solved. Porsche's risk will be Porsche's risk and not VW. Two companies integrated into one fulfill Piech's dream, and VW under Porsche fulfill the Porsche family's dream, everyone happy.
VW by Porsche sounds infinitely better than Porsche by VW.
For the short sellers that lose money, get a life. They knew the risk of bottomless loses associated with short selling, they are lucky to get away with losing only a billion. Why is it someone else's fault that they lose money? Can't they take some responsibility for their actions?
Re: News on the VW-Porsche merger
Whoopsy:
Hmm, instead of VW taking over Porsche to assume the risk, do it the other way, make VW a subsidiary of Porsche and problem solved.
Except that the VW shareholders would still stand the risk of inheriting unestimable contingent liabilities - so either way you execute it, it's probably proving impossible to quantify the share swap ratio.
--
Porsche Carrera GTS (2012); Porsche Cayenne Diesel (2012)
Re: News on the VW-Porsche merger
Yes. They didn't prepared for the what ifs. They had a sound time line for their gamble, but didn't expect Piech to rise up for the power grab against his own 'family'.
Wiedeking as the pawn of the proper Porsche family drew up the plan to unite the family businesses, he knew the risk of such leverage but he didn't expect the credit market to dry up so quickly during the crisis in addition to the road block put up by the 'family' member Piech. The combination of which cost him his job.
Re: News on the VW-Porsche merger
Whoopsy:
Yes. They didn't prepared for the what ifs. They had a sound time line for their gamble, but didn't expect Piech to rise up for the power grab against his own 'family'.
Wiedeking as the pawn of the proper Porsche family drew up the plan to unite the family businesses, he knew the risk of such leverage but he didn't expect the credit market to dry up so quickly during the crisis in addition to the road block put up by the 'family' member Piech. The combination of which cost him his job.
Police officers are very wary to break up a fight between two brothers for fear of both brothers turning on them. 
--
Mike
Carrera GT + Tesla Roadster 1.5 + Panamera Turbo + BMW Z8 + BMW 3.0 CSi + Bentley Arnage T + GT3 RS 4.0
Re: News on the VW-Porsche merger
I just saw this thread for the first time today. Wiedeking was full of himself over the years and walked into a hornets nest. I retired from selling Porsche in 2004, at the time I had a investment group that would call me on a regular basis asking how the sales were going because they held large amounts of Porsche stock. I told them that this scenario would happen in the future and I am sure that they laughed at me, since I was a simple salesperson at a dealership. But I had access to some key people that had loose tounges. It was well known that Piech did not like Wiedeking and when the opportunity came along to take his legs out, he did. It made him the most powerful man in the car business, which he likes. Just research the history of how he was forced out of Porsche in the first place and their is no love lost between the cousins.
Re: News on the VW-Porsche merger
Which is what I have been saying, Piech is out for revenge to even the score with Porsche the family.
Piech WILL make the deal work, he wants nothing else but to take away Porsche the business from Porsche the family, to him it would be the greatest embarrassment to the Porsche family and his greatest victory in life.
Wiedeking was the darling of the Porsche family, which is why he was the first person purged by Piech.
Re: News on the VW-Porsche merger
Piech is the man who brought forth the 901 program, 917 program, the Audi Quattro and took VW from its tired collection of warranty hellholes to the giant that it is today. Without him there would also be no modern Bentley, No Bugatti, and no Golf R's. He actually is a genuine car guy and a genuine visionary Industrialist, wich is a rare combination.
On the other side of the family you see a lot of pipe smokers, tiptronic luggards and taxidermist fans. When it comes to cars and the car business there is no comparison between Piech and the others.
When he passes away they should preserve his brain for future reactivation!
Re: News on the VW-Porsche merger
You left out the Audi 5000/100 in 1984 which was revolutionary for its time. I agree that he is the best car man in the business. Porsche family made big mistake in pushing him out of the family business back in the 70's. He worked himself into position to hurt everyone that hurt him. Actually pretty sad story all the way around. However everyone walks away with piles of money.
Re: News on the VW-Porsche merger
More news about the VW-Porsche marriage
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/29/idUSL5E8CT0AP20120129
February 14, Valentine's Day, is very appropriate. The two of them have been dating for a very long time!
--
"Form follows function"
Feb 1, 2012 12:54:43 PM
- easy_rider911
- Rennteam VIP
-
- Loc: London , United Kingdom
- Posts: 22190, Gallery
- Registered on: Nov 8, 2004
- Reply to: Spyderidol
Jul 5, 2012 8:42:32 AM
- easy_rider911
- Rennteam VIP
-
- Loc: London , United Kingdom
- Posts: 22190, Gallery
- Registered on: Nov 8, 2004
- Reply to: easy_rider911
Re: News on the VW-Porsche merger
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18718087
--
997.1 C2S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red
Jul 5, 2012 9:27:31 AM
-
RC
- Rennteam Administrator
-
- Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany
- Posts: 59602, Gallery
- Registered on: Mar 26, 2002
- Reply to: easy_rider911
Jul 5, 2012 10:15:55 AM
- Spyderidol
- Rennteam Master
-
- Loc: Mozambique
- Posts: 5807, Gallery
- Registered on: Apr 25, 2007
-
Reply to:
RC
Re: News on the VW-Porsche merger
Yes - What the article doesn’t specify is that VW will purchase the remaining 50.1% of Porsche Zwischwenholding GmbH (which is 100% owner of Porsche AG), thus leaving Porsche SE as a standalone company. The interesting thing is that Porsche SE owns 32.2% of VW. Furthermore, Porsche SE is 90% owned by Porsche and Piech Families.
Here is a more detailed article: http://blogs.wsj.com/drivers-seat/2012/07/04/volkswagen-to-acquire-rest-of-porsche/
Jul 5, 2012 10:24:29 AM
-
RC
- Rennteam Administrator
-
- Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany
- Posts: 59602, Gallery
- Registered on: Mar 26, 2002
- Reply to: Spyderidol
Re: News on the VW-Porsche merger
Spyderidol:
Yes - What the article doesn’t specify is that VW will purchase the remaining 50.1% of Porsche Zwischwenholding GmbH (which is 100% owner of Porsche AG), thus leaving Porsche SE as a standalone company. The interesting thing is that Porsche SE owns 32.2% of VW. Furthermore, Porsche SE is 90% owned by Porsche and Piech Families.
Don't worry...Porsche (the Porsche family...Porsche and Piech) are still keeping their thumbs on Porsche, so while this may seem to be a black day for Porsche, it really isn't. The Porsche family clan (incl. Piech) has almost 34 Billion EUR. They are one of the richest families worldwide and the richest in Austria.
--
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4
Jul 5, 2012 11:43:39 AM
- Spyderidol
- Rennteam Master
-
- Loc: Mozambique
- Posts: 5807, Gallery
- Registered on: Apr 25, 2007
-
Reply to:
RC
Re: News on the VW-Porsche merger
Maybe so. Time will tell.
I think however, it is appropriate to remember these words from Ferdinand "Ferry" Porsche: “Independence, then, has always been the attitude at Porsche. To do not what is expected, but what we feel is right. It is said that so many creations today are just like all the rest. This is why Porsche must remain small and independent. Without independence – the freedom to try new ideas – the world will not move ahead, but live in fear of its own potential.”
Jul 5, 2012 11:48:03 AM
-
RC
- Rennteam Administrator
-
- Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany
- Posts: 59602, Gallery
- Registered on: Mar 26, 2002
- Reply to: Spyderidol
Re: News on the VW-Porsche merger
Spyderidol:
Maybe so. Time will tell.
I think however, it is appropriate to remembr these words from Ferdinand "Ferry" Porsche: “Independence, then, has always been the attitude at Porsche. To do not what is expected, but what we feel is right. It is said that so many creations today are just like all the rest. This is why Porsche must remain small and independent. Without independence – the freedom to try new ideas – the world will not move ahead, but live in fear of its own potential.”
Do you honestly believe Porsche is not independent now? Porsche has received the knighthood from VW...taking care of Porsche, Lamborghini, Bugatti and all the sports cars in the VW group family. I also think that the current people at the head of Porsche are just perfect for the company, especially Mr. Müller and Mr. Zellmer, two young, dynamic and very passionate Porsche lovers (this is something I know for a fact 
).
--
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4
Jul 5, 2012 12:00:00 PM
- Spyderidol
- Rennteam Master
-
- Loc: Mozambique
- Posts: 5807, Gallery
- Registered on: Apr 25, 2007
-
Reply to:
RC
Re: News on the VW-Porsche merger
No. I don’t think that they are any longer independent. Can you explain to me the concept of being owned by someone and simultaneously being independent? (really independant- not just allowed to do your own thing ...as long as it does not interfere with "our" plans)
Jul 5, 2012 12:03:13 PM
-
RC
- Rennteam Administrator
-
- Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany
- Posts: 59602, Gallery
- Registered on: Mar 26, 2002
- Reply to: Spyderidol
Re: News on the VW-Porsche merger
Spyderidol:
No. I don’t think that they are any longer independent. Can you explain to me the concept of being owned by someone and simultaneously being independent? (really independant- not just allowed to do your own thing ...as long as it does not interfere with "our" plans)
It depends who controls VW... It also depends on the merger contracts and trust me, Porsche profits a lot from the merger.
--
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4
Jul 5, 2012 12:16:04 PM
- Spyderidol
- Rennteam Master
-
- Loc: Mozambique
- Posts: 5807, Gallery
- Registered on: Apr 25, 2007
-
Reply to:
RC
Jul 5, 2012 1:16:16 PM
- easy_rider911
- Rennteam VIP
-
- Loc: London , United Kingdom
- Posts: 22190, Gallery
- Registered on: Nov 8, 2004
- Reply to: Spyderidol
Re: News on the VW-Porsche merger
I think the phrase that might best describe it is "semi-autonomous". That's certainly not "independent" though.
I think it's more akin to what Spyderidol said 'do your own thing ... as long as it does not interfere with our plans' ...
A bit like Hong Kong SAR within China?
Time will tell how this plays out but I would equally be surprised if VW does anything to harm such a prestigious brand.
--
997.1 C2S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red
Jul 5, 2012 1:26:39 PM
- racerx
- Rennteam VIP
-
- Loc: 1985 porsche dealership , Bouvet Island
- Posts: 8751, Gallery
- Registered on: Jul 27, 2004
- Reply to: easy_rider911
Re: News on the VW-Porsche merger
Independent or not, good leaders or not, the proof is in the pudding.
Right now all I can say is that the 911 range is in good hands, the rest is 
So let's see if they come up with something worth discussing. Performance w/o looks is blah and vice versa likewise. Look at the competition that they once dominated - Ferrari, Lambo, Aston, Mercedes all better in terms of performance and looks and sales compared to way back when. My memory is very clear on this. Just check the video of Derek Bell in the 956 I posted in O/T and understand what was happening then.
Forum
About Rennteam | Help | Terms of use | Privacy Policy | Support | Contact | Imprint | Archive
Powered by
Community
and
