Crown

Christian,

Whatever you pick between Panamera Turbo S and Cayenne Turbo, your choice would be right since both are great cars. You take enough time to decide, so with going for the Panamera Turbo S, you opt the best choice.

Since you go for AWD for yourself, how your garage will shape? Now, you have 2 cab and a X5M. Are you thinking of selling or exchanging any of them?

--

ONUR

11 E92 M3 CP 

09 Audi TTS Coupe - 07 997 Carrera S - 05 M3 Coupe - 03 M3 Coupe - 96 M3 Coupe EVO (PASS TIME HISTORY)

RC, where are you?  Strangely silent, as if you have some surprise up your sleeve.  Is the black/kblack Panamera Turbo S still your car of choice?  What options?  I miss the craziness of this Board...

pride355:

Christian,

Whatever you pick between Panamera Turbo S and Cayenne Turbo, your choice would be right since both are great cars. You take enough time to decide, so with going for the Panamera Turbo S, you opt the best choice.

Since you go for AWD for yourself, how your garage will shape? Now, you have 2 cab and a X5M. Are you thinking of selling or exchanging any of them?

--

ONUR

11 E92 M3 CP 

09 Audi TTS Coupe - 07 997 Carrera S - 05 M3 Coupe - 03 M3 Coupe - 96 M3 Coupe EVO (PASS TIME HISTORY)

 

Thanks, Onur...I wish all my life choices would be that tough...and pleasant at the same time. 

As soon as the Panamera Turbo S arrives (June ?), the 997 Carrera GTS Cab will go. This is part of the deal with Porsche Financial but I also couldn't afford to keep both. The M3 Cab (my wife's car) will go in July, her lease is over. She will keep my X5M as her daily driver until April 2013 and then she will go for a Cayenne Diesel or, more likely a Cajun Diesel. In the unlikely event that we're going to have some serious money, she would get herself a Bentley GT Coupe.  Not very likely though. 

So yes, we are staying with two cars (Panamera Turbo S and Cayenne/Cajun) in the end. The Mini Countryman is actually my mom's car but we are using it pretty often because she doesn't drive it all the time.

For us, it doesn't make sense, financially and otherwise, to own more than two cars. A garage queen like the 997 Turbo or now the Carrera GTS Cab are just money burners and I can't afford that anymore.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

Wonderbar:

RC, where are you?  Strangely silent, as if you have some surprise up your sleeve.  Is the black/kblack Panamera Turbo S still your car of choice?  What options?  I miss the craziness of this Board...

I've been to Austria for a couple of days...skiing with the family and some friends. 

My decision for the Panamera Turbo S is still in place but I'm not 100% sure yet. It is a great car, no doubt about it and a very good replacement for the X5M and the Carrera GTS but it just doesn't feel right, somehow. I'm not really a sedan type of guy, I'm more into SUVs but at the same time, I want the maximum possible performance and the Panamera Turbo S is just the fastest family car out there (maybe with the exception of the Ferrari FF ).

Monday is the final decision day. Drum rolls please... 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

RC:

Thanks, Onur...I wish all my life choices would be that tough...and pleasant at the same time. 

As soon as the Panamera Turbo S arrives (June ?), the 997 Carrera GTS Cab will go. This is part of the deal with Porsche Financial but I also couldn't afford to keep both. The M3 Cab (my wife's car) will go in July, her lease is over. She will keep my X5M as her daily driver until April 2013 and then she will go for a Cayenne Diesel or, more likely a Cajun Diesel. In the unlikely event that we're going to have some serious money, she would get herself a Bentley GT Coupe.  Not very likely though. 

So yes, we are staying with two cars (Panamera Turbo S and Cayenne/Cajun) in the end. The Mini Countryman is actually my mom's car but we are using it pretty often because she doesn't drive it all the time.

For us, it doesn't make sense, financially and otherwise, to own more than two cars. A garage queen like the 997 Turbo or now the Carrera GTS Cab are just money burners and I can't afford that anymore.

Now, this makes sense. Very logical move also financially very smart choice. You have the Panamera Turbo S and wife has the X5 M and then Cayenne/Cajun.  Maybe , 991 Carrera S cabrio can find a place in your garage for open-top fun drives. 

I also think that 4 cars for 2 people are not for everyone. It is a big waste of money, in the end.  

ONUR

11 E92 M3 CP 

09 Audi TTS Coupe - 07 997 Carrera S - 05 M3 Coupe - 03 M3 Coupe - 96 M3 Coupe EVO (PASS TIME HISTORY)

NelsonF:
I thought it should be mentioned that the Panamera's boot space is fairly small. I took a PTT demo out for review yesterday thought that trunk space was awfully limited for such a large vehicle for people who intended to take long trips with passengers and their luggage. Loved the interior and drive though. Perhaps another plus for the M5 or in RC's case, CT.

The trunk space is limited, indeed. However, Porsche sells four very nice luggage pieces which fit perfectly into the Panamera trunk, you can even order them in a matching color (exterior).  For less money, you can get the same or almost the same luggage, just make sure the size fits.

I told my wife about the limited trunk space and she saw it with her own eyes, so she knows what she's dealing with.

The rear passenger space of the Panamera also offers quite some leg room...and enough room for two larger soft bags. Not ideal but better than nothing. 

The longest trip we usually take is one week skiing in the Alps, the other trips are usually shorter ones and the luggage space is not perfect but, according to my wife , sufficient. If she agrees...well...she has to sacrifice. 

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

by the way, if this thread is kept alive for some time, it could be re-named in "Which new car should RC get: Cayenne or Cajun?!!......whatever the next choice will be then, it ought to be for a "model boasting impressive performance and dynamic looks, exuding unadulterated driving pleasure"...oh, I do like that phrase...... 

Regarding trunk space, the more limited space of the Panamera vs. the Cayenne can be a blessing.  On our recent trip with my wife and two kids (10 and 16) they just piled stuff in the Cayenne in without much planning.  So our hotel rooms were cluttered with all sorts of unnecessary and messy clothes, shoes and books which were not used and then just packed away in the car again for the return trip. 

RC, on your not being a sedan guy, I understand.  But blame it on Porsche for offering such tempting products.  The Panamera is not a typical "sedan"--it is a powerful sports car with some additional space advantages.  No wonder you are confused.  And Porsche will always have more tempting choices down the line, so experiment and enjoy.  You are blessed to have the resources (which you budget well) to have fun with all the exciting Porsche offerings...

Very well said, Sydney...you should get a job at Porsche marketing.  

You are right regarding the luggage, my kids always take toys with them...and books...and they never touch them. The only thing they usually use is the...iPad. For gaming, for reading, for information, for videos, for music...there is no need for a suitcase full of toys and books if they never actually touch them.

Still...I can preach all night long to them about not taking that much luggage and they still do. Same with my wife: Last time she had some serious explaining to do at german customs because she had...hold your breath...8 (!) different pairs of sport shoes (Nikes) with her. She was lucky all looked worn and used. The customs officers even made jokes about her shoes but my wife is crazy about fitness and she loves to use a different outfit all the time, thus the many different shoes, even on vacation. I am more of a tech guy, I could hack the Pentagon with the electronics stuff I usually carry with me on a vacation. 

So maybe we shouldn't really judge our kids... 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

Best line about kids was in "Tree of Life" movie when the mother--after all that happens to her and her kids over a lifetime--says simply "Be kind to them, and hope..."

RC:

The trunk space is limited, indeed. However, Porsche sells four very nice luggage pieces which fit perfectly into the Panamera trunk, you can even order them in a matching color (exterior).  For less money, you can get the same or almost the same luggage, just make sure the size fits.

I told my wife about the limited trunk space and she saw it with her own eyes, so she knows what she's dealing with.

The rear passenger space of the Panamera also offers quite some leg room...and enough room for two larger soft bags. Not ideal but better than nothing. 

The longest trip we usually take is one week skiing in the Alps, the other trips are usually shorter ones and the luggage space is not perfect but, according to my wife , sufficient. If she agrees...well...she has to sacrifice. 

I just took a 4-day trip to Memphis to watch my alma mater play football (American) in the post-season Liberty Bowl in the Panamera Turbo.  I took my wife, a daughter, and the daughter's friend on a 7.5 hour drive and all of our luggage fit.  Now, the two back-seat passengers were 22 years old and not fashion Queens, so it wasn't a real strenuous luggage test.  But, we had just enough room for everything we needed for outdoor seating as well as New Year's Eve attire.  A great trip in the Panny.

--

Mike

2005 Carrera GT + 2008 Tesla Roadster +2010 Panamera Turbo + 2001 BMW Z8 + 1972 BMW 3.0 CSi +2009 Bentley Arnage T

7.5 h drive in the car ? Wow, Mike. My wife would have been all over me with her complaints. 

Best she can do is 4.5 to 5 hours, then she gets very nervous.

Glad you had fun. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

Christinan,

are there any good lease offers for Cayenne Turbo?

IMHO, Panamera Turbo S is not the potimum choice and Cayenne Turbo could be a better option for you. After the lease for X5M in 2013 ends you wil grant the car to your wife and lease Panamera Turbo facelift. Could this be a better choice for you?

artur777:

Christinan,

are there any good lease offers for Cayenne Turbo?

IMHO, Panamera Turbo S is not the potimum choice and Cayenne Turbo could be a better option for you. After the lease for X5M in 2013 ends you wil grant the car to your wife and lease Panamera Turbo facelift. Could this be a better choice for you?

 ,, I think this thread alone has aged Christian 20 yr .. On the 9th of this month the pen will be shaking,, thinking    , oooops, , errrr, yep.. Done....

throt

"I didn't do it"

You'd be surprised how much this thread actually helped me (and hopefully others too who are looking into a "family" Porsche).   Yes...January 9th is the final day of decision.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

artur777:

Christinan,

are there any good lease offers for Cayenne Turbo?

IMHO, Panamera Turbo S is not the potimum choice and Cayenne Turbo could be a better option for you. After the lease for X5M in 2013 ends you wil grant the car to your wife and lease Panamera Turbo facelift. Could this be a better choice for you?

I got the same good lease deal for the Cayenne Turbo too but the decision for the Panamera Turbo S has been already taken and there is no looking back. If I start now thinking about the Cayenne again, I get nowhere. 

The lease deal requires a minimum of 4 years, I think I already made this clear. So there is no possibility to lease a Cayenne Turbo now and go for the Panamera Turbo facelift later on. My wife has her own business and she can't afford a Cayenne Turbo, she also wants to switch to a car with lower fuel consumption, preferably a Diesel, after we return the X5M to the lease company in April 2013.

Things actually are pretty simple now: Panamera Turbo S now, Cajun (or Cayenne) Diesel 2013. Two Porsche, one fast, one not so fast, hopefully the perfect (family) combo. 

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

Hi Mike!  I grew up in Memphis and saw many a Liberty Bowl.  My wife's dad was on the Liberty Bowl committee for years, and my good friend and classmate is the major stockholder of Autozone.  Small world.

Glad you enjoyed Cincy's victory, and the trip down in the Panny.  Incidentally, our mutual Sonoma friend and I went to press days at Frankfurt and had a great time.  We have been to many shows together--a wonderful guy..

We took our Cayenne for a ski-trip. With newborn twins the luggage space is not enough for the twin stroller and ski-gear. Therefore we got a ski-box. I was actually positively surprised about the wind noise. Up to 155 km/h it was fine. I didn't drive faster because you're not supposed to drive faster than 130 km/h.

2012 Cayenne S White/Espresso 

Ex: 993 Targa, 986S, 986 and 964 C2

Nice car.

Be careful with driving faster than 160 kph with the ski box on the roof, most boxes are "limited" to 130 or 140 kph anyway for safety reasons. The president of the german physician organization died in a fatal accident many years ago, he had a transport box on his Mercedes S class and at around 200 kph, the car got too much drag and he lost control on the Autobahn, killing him and his entire family. I always get mad when I see these idiots with their roof boxes driving 180, 190 or even 200 kph on the Autobahn, they are playing with their lives.

Regarding the Panamera Turbo S: I was just talking to a friend about this car and he claimed that the Panamera Turbo S and the regular Turbo actually have the same chassis setup and there is no other technical difference between the Turbo and Turbo S other than the turbo chargers and the ECU mapping. I was surprised to hear that.

Then, I played around a little bit with the Porsche car configurator and choosing the Turbo instead the Turbo S, choosing all the technical goodies, incl. the powerkit, I actually ended up with a price tag lower than the Turbo S. Not by much, aprox. 1k EUR but still. Weird. This friend also claimed that although on paper, there is a difference of 10 hp between the Turbo Powerkit and the Turbo S, the ECU mapping is absolutely the same. Even weirder.

I will go for the Turbo S, despite the slight price advantage of the Turbo Powerkit because of the Turbo S logo in the speedo and other locations (PCM, door sill) but I'm a little bit disappointed. In the past, the Turbo S models were supposed to offer a financial advantage over the regular Turbo models but this time, it seems there is none. I truly think that PCCB should be standard or optional free of cost on the Turbo S (look at the 997 Turbo S) but apparently Porsche was too greedy on this one.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

RC:

Nice car.

Be careful with driving faster than 160 kph with the ski box on the roof, most boxes are "limited" to 130 or 140 kph anyway for safety reasons. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

Thanks!

Yes, I didn't drive faster the 155 km/h but got overtaken many times by people with ski-boxes 

2012 Cayenne S White/Espresso 

Ex: 993 Targa, 986S, 986 and 964 C2

Christian,

this 10 hp difference on the paper is caused by different turbo chargers? or is it only on the paper indeed like a marketing step?

I agree that the turbos and the mapping seem to be the major differences between the Panamera Turbo S and the normal Turbo, but those differences at least on paper produce noticeable results.  PTS has 550 hp, 553 lb-ft. of torque (590 with overboost), 0-60 in 3.6 seconds, and top speed of 191 mph; as compared to the Pt's 500 hp, 516 lb-ft. of torque (568 with overboost), 0-60 mph in 4.0 seconds, and top speed of 188. 

Also, if I am reading the specs right, the PTS has a wider rear track, Exclusive side skirts, and some other standard goodies.  I am not sure about the Panamera Turbo powerkit, as I didn't know it was offered for the Panamera.  I do agree with you that the PCCBs should come as standard on the PTS.

The differences in cost and performance seem to be comparable to the differences between the 997 Turbo S and the 997 TT,   If you want that extra something, albeit insignificant to most folks at these speeds, you gotta pay that extra bit (about 15K more) to scratch your "have to have the best" addiction itch. 

artur777:

Christian,

this 10 hp difference on the paper is caused by different turbo chargers? or is it only on the paper indeed like a marketing step?

Turbo Powerkit and Turbo S have the same turbo chargers and according to my source, the same software mapping. So I guess the additional 10 hp (Powerkit vs. Turbo S) are indeed on paper only. A german car magazine tested the Panamera Turbo Powerkit a while ago and 0-200 kph acceleration was...hold your breath...11.9 seconds.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

Wonderbar:

I agree that the turbos and the mapping seem to be the major differences between the Panamera Turbo S and the normal Turbo, but those differences at least on paper produce noticeable results.  PTS has 550 hp, 553 lb-ft. of torque (590 with overboost), 0-60 in 3.6 seconds, and top speed of 191 mph; as compared to the Pt's 500 hp, 516 lb-ft. of torque (568 with overboost), 0-60 mph in 4.0 seconds, and top speed of 188. 

Also, if I am reading the specs right, the PTS has a wider rear track, Exclusive side skirts, and some other standard goodies.  I am not sure about the Panamera Turbo powerkit, as I didn't know it was offered for the Panamera.  I do agree with you that the PCCBs should come as standard on the PTS.

The differences in cost and performance seem to be comparable to the differences between the 997 Turbo S and the 997 TT,   If you want that extra something, albeit insignificant to most folks at these speeds, you gotta pay that extra bit (about 15K more) to scratch your "have to have the best" addiction itch. 

Sydney, I was referring to the Powerkit vs. Turbo S (540 hp vs. 550 hp).

Yes, according to specs, the Turbo S has a wider rear track but I actually think that this is because of the 5 mm spacers used, they are optional on the Panamera Turbo but not available for the Turbo S.

The "Exclusive" side skirts are also available as an option for the Panamera Turbo, so there is nothing special about them.

So I can't really see why the Panamera Turbo S would cost so much more than the Turbo if I don't get a substantial additional value. I get the feeling that Porsche was a little bit on the greedy side here, at least PCCB or the Sport Design package (or both) should have been standard options.

Look at the Panamera GTS for example, this is a real good offer from Porsche. I don't understand why they didn't offer the same good deal to Turbo S owners.

Speaking of the Panamera GTS: With the same options (minus PCCB), the GTS would be 50k EUR cheaper than the Turbo S. Ouch. Food for thought but unfortunately the Panamera GTS is 2.6 seconds slower from 0-160 kph (100 mph) than the Turbo S. Huge performance difference.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

Thanks RC.  Just so I can understand it, are you saying that the Panamera Turbo with powerkit (and all the options wihich are standard on the Turbo S, including side skirts and wheel spacers) is 1K cheaper and 10HP lower than the Panamera Turbo S?   Also do you have some performance numbers for the powerkit?

Not trying to be argumentative, just trying to understand...

Wonderbar:

Thanks RC.  Just so I can understand it, are you saying that the Panamera Turbo with powerkit (and all the options wihich are standard on the Turbo S, including side skirts and wheel spacers) is 1K cheaper and 10HP lower than the Panamera Turbo S?   Also do you have some performance numbers for the powerkit?

Not trying to be argumentative, just trying to understand...

Actually yes. The 10 hp power difference seems to be on paper only, according to my source, the turbo chargers and software mapping are identical. Surprisingly, the powerkit performed much better in a review than the Turbo S (0-200 kph or 125 mph in 11.8 seconds for powerkit vs. 12.7 seconds for Turbo S) but maybe the powerkit car was in a very good shape because 11.8 seconds is just spectacular. Porsche claims 12.9 seconds from 0-200 kph (125 mph) for the Turbo S, I have no official performance figure for the powerkit but it is logical to assume that the powerkit with 540 hp on paper can't be really more powerful than the 550 hp on paper. The V8 twin turbo engines perform better under cold weather conditions, so maybe one test has been done during cold weather and the other one during hot weather in summer ? Just a guess though. Btw: AMS still used the very bad 0-200 kph time of 14.9 seconds for the Panamera Turbo, most 0-200 kph times I've seen for the Turbo (without powerkit / non-S) were under 14 seconds. Weird.

I will go for the Turbo S because it has these Turbo S logos (speedo cluster, PCM, door sills) but I'm not really sure why Porsche doesn't give the customer any real advantage with the Turbo S. Again...weird.

At a point, I was even looking into the Panamera GTS which looks more and more like a bargain to me but unfortunately this car isn't really a performance monster, so I would rather go for the Cayenne Turbo powerkit for similar money. Still...whoever is into getting a Panamera but doesn't know if 4S, Turbo or Turbo S, the GTS could really look like a bargain, depending on the region you live in.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

Panamera GTS is a bargain really

Interesting if Cayenne GTS would be the same...

Panamera Turbo S is not a bargain unfortunately... even 997 Turbo S is better in this way

Panamera GTS only a bargain if you don't want turbo power, so not a "bargain" for me. 

Artur, can you explain why 997 Turbo S  is a better bargain than Panamera Turbo S?

And RC, can you post  Porsche torque figures for Panamera Turbo powerkit?

997 Turbo S is equal or even cheaper than 997 Turbo with all the same options as in Turbo S. For the same or even less money you get +30hp and Turbo S badging everywhere