Crown

in Australia the 1M is about 20% cheaper than a E90 M3.

and considering it only costs 45k in the States, i can think of no better car in the price range. (unless u cant drive manual....)

I have driven both, and i can say the 1M is really, really fun!

yes, I agree with WAY. 1M is a bit 1 dimensional compared with the M3, but I find the M3 too technical with all the different settings etc . I jsut want to start the engine and have fun!  

whereas the 1M is just plain fun from the get go. it's a hooligan's dreamcar!  

so if u are a bit immature like me and has spare room in the garage, get one before they are sold out! 

BMW 1 M + C63. 

derder:

I jsut want to start the engine and have fun!  

whereas the 1M is just plain fun from the get go. it's a hooligan's dreamcar!  

so if u are a bit immature like me and has spare room in the garage, get one before they are sold out! 

Good post.    Nice to see there are still a few people around who care more about the driving experience than the image they're projecting to others.

11.7 sec up to 200kmh 7,5 sec 100-200 is  so far a benchmark for a sedan in this class, but i guess there were around 600hp at work..

Autozeitung tested the Panamera Turbo S from 0-200 kph in 11.8 seconds and from 0-100 kph in 3.7 seconds. Their values always seem to be slightly better than in other car magazines. It may have to do with the fact that apparently the track they use for testing has a stickier asphalt (no kidding). 

I think that BMW isn't playing any games about the power output. Look at the X6M performance figures and keep in mind that the X6M is almost 450 (!) kg heavier. This is almost half a ton. Still...the 4.2 seconds from 0-100 kph for the M5 prove my point that this car badly needs AWD. On wet streets and on snow, the M5 will be no fun to drive. Some testers already made complaints about traction issues on dry streets.

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (May 2012 delivery), Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

RC i was mor refering to the fact of 7,5 secs for 100-200kmh. That is fast, and i thougt therefor they could have boosted it up. As soon is i get mine, i will make some  vbox runs and we will see.

Concerning AWD, yes if you buy the m5 for all year car, that would be wrong, but see, i driving my gt2 also up to Zermatt (special permision) and it works, on rainy weather i just be carefull. The m5 will be my daily driver spring summer and automme, and in the winter times i wount drive any way non of those cars, so i never want an m5 with all whele drive.

I dont understand your point as you have your x5m (nice suv, thinking of changing my ml63 to an x6m this summer), why you need another all whele drive car. I am driving the ml mostly in winter, and in sommer it will be mostly the m5, and that is fine for me, even if i live in the mountains 50%

The X5M will go next year in April, my wife wants a car with lower fuel consumption and it should be smaller too. The new "Cajun" is a possibility. I also want to drive a Porsche but I also need to be able to move the whole family in it. The Panamera Turbo S is just perfect. There are at least two or three threads where I explain the why in a very very accurate (and almost beaten to death) kind of way.  I still think that for public streets, a car like the M5 isn't too much fun (or too risky or both) but I'm really used to AWD and so far, it has worked very very well for me. 

As to rain (and snow): Well, I use all my cars all year long (the Carrera GTS is actually the first one which didn't get winter tires because it isn't worth it for just three months...the car goes back to Porsche Financial in May) and a car like the M5 would really suck. My wife has a M3 Cab and this car sits in the garage right now because even with winter tires, this car sucks in winter time. My former 997 Carrera S Coupe has been an excellent winter car, despite the RWD but the rear engine design kind of was an advantage.

Maybe it is my age, I'm 46 but I've seen too many horrible accidents caused by false self-esteem, wrong judgement and a too big of an ego, so maybe I got too cautious, especially the car(s) I move my family in. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (May 2012 delivery), Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

Dario:

RC i was mor refering to the fact of 7,5 secs for 100-200kmh. That is fast, and i thougt therefor they could have boosted it up. As soon is i get mine, i will make some  vbox runs and we will see.

Concerning AWD, yes if you buy the m5 for all year car, that would be wrong, but see, i driving my gt2 also up to Zermatt (special permision) and it works, on rainy weather i just be carefull. The m5 will be my daily driver spring summer and automme, and in the winter times i wount drive any way non of those cars, so i never want an m5 with all whele drive.

I dont understand your point as you have your x5m (nice suv, thinking of changing my ml63 to an x6m this summer), why you need another all whele drive car. I am driving the ml mostly in winter, and in sommer it will be mostly the m5, and that is fine for me, even if i live in the mountains 50%

The problem with the new M5 seems to be the weaker performance above 200kph (longer 6th and 7th gear). Apparently, the M5 is fast at lower and medium speeds but not faster (rather slower) than the old M5 above 200kph... I thus suspect that the Panamera turbo S is the faster car above 200kph.

Have you seen any performance figures up to 300 kph ? The Panamera Turbo S needs from 0-300 kph aprox. 50 seconds (I know there is a video with a shorter time but it uses the speedo speed, not the real speed).

I don't understand why BMW didn't at least add a xDrive option to the M5 but I have a gut feeling that they are going to do that sooner or later. It would steal many Panamera Turbo/Turbo S customers from Porsche, I'm pretty sure about that. Also keep in mind that the new V8 50i models get a power bump to 450 hp, so the new 550iX will already attack the Panamera Turbo and the GTS at a much lower entry price. 

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (May 2012 delivery), Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

RC:

I don't understand why BMW didn't at least add a xDrive option to the M5 but I have a gut feeling that they are going to do that sooner or later. 

Somehow, only Piech-influenced car brands give AWD to their performance models.  I've never understood the reluctance of the others to do the same.  They seem to believe that AWD makes the car "safer" but not "faster", so why bother?  Too bad for them.  They are missing my interest in their performance models.

--

Mike

Carrera GT + Tesla Roadster 1.5 + Panamera Turbo +  BMW Z8 + BMW 3.0 CSi + Bentley Arnage T + GT3 RS 4.0

MKSGR:

The problem with the new M5 seems to be the weaker performance above 200kph (longer 6th and 7th gear). Apparently, the M5 is fast at lower and medium speeds but not faster (rather slower) than the old M5 above 200kph... I thus suspect that the Panamera turbo S is the faster car above 200kph.

i agree with you on that, but fith gear goes to 294 kmh (real speed) and till there the m5 is very quick. The odl one(drove it 1 year) woundt stand a chance. 6th gear is around 340 and 7the to 400kmh witch is useless.

according to this video 0-300kmh by sport auto,  tacho speed 34 secs, i think somweher around 42-44 secs should be likely. The older m5 was around 50 secs (m6 around 44 secs)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-70c9s3XW0

so i think he performance well. My bet around Döttingerhöhe in the region of 290kmh (cls 63 pp was 287kmh) in the SA

Yes, judging by the video and speedo accuracy, I'd say 42-44 seconds too, which is quite impressive. 

I get my Panamera Turbo S in May and with some luck, we may be able to do a real life test (one of our users from Munich may get the M5) on the Autobahn. 

One thing is for sure though: The M5 is a bargain, it is just a pity it isn't available with xDrive.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (May 2012 delivery), Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

if not i am also quit often in Germany, so we can maybe met up somewhere.

Would be fun

Dario:

if not i am also quit often in Germany, so we can maybe met up somewhere.

Would be fun

We're actually planning some sort of Rennteam mod team meet sometimes this year, one of the possible cities is Munich.

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (May 2012 delivery), Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

Btw: Speaking of AWD...have you seen that from 0-60 kph, the X6M actually beats the M5 ? 

So the M5 is not a good car for red light "races". 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (May 2012 delivery), Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

yes red light istn his teritory, but neider mine..

RC:

One thing is for sure though: The M5 is a bargain, it is just a pity it isn't available with xDrive.

This sums it up all perfectly. 

ONUR

11 E92 M3 CP 

09 Audi TTS Coupe - 07 997 Carrera S - 05 M3 Coupe - 03 M3 Coupe - 96 M3 Coupe EVO (PASS TIME HISTORY)

RC:

Btw: Speaking of AWD...have you seen that from 0-60 kph, the X6M actually beats the M5 ? 

So the M5 is not a good car for red light "races". 

I remember being slower than a Mercedes S320 CDI in my M3, from red lights on a dry but slippery surface. No, I wasn't racing, I don't like light to light racing. 

ONUR

11 E92 M3 CP 

09 Audi TTS Coupe - 07 997 Carrera S - 05 M3 Coupe - 03 M3 Coupe - 96 M3 Coupe EVO (PASS TIME HISTORY)

OK, guys...I was all wrong about the Panamera Turbo S video I posted: The numbers appearing in the video (3.8 seconds, 11.9 seconds and 40.7 seconds) are the real 0-100, 0-200 and 0-300 kph times measured by french Sportauto, these are not the speedo numbers. I know, I know...a little bit confusing but I checked again and it is true.

Meaning: The Panamera Turbo S seems to be faster from 0-300 kph than the new M5 but only by aprox. 2-3 seconds (which is much but under real life driving conditions, I'd say that both cars would be head to head on a straight line with a rolling start).

Now a shocking fact: The 997 Turbo (facelift !) does 0-300 kph in...40.9 seconds. Meaning: Under real life conditions, the 997 Turbo won't be able to outrun the Panamera Turbo S or the new M5, which is kind of surprising.

So the new M5 and the Panamera Turbo S are faster from 0-300 kph than the following cars (latest models):

Porsche 997 GT3 (50.3 seconds)

Cadillac CTS-V (69.3 seconds)

Aston Martin Vantage V12 (53.7 seconds)

I think whoever chose the new M5 or the Panamera Turbo S won't be disappointed.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (May 2012 delivery), Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

RC:

OK, guys...I was all wrong about the Panamera Turbo S video I posted: The numbers appearing in the video (3.8 seconds, 11.9 seconds and 40.7 seconds) are the real 0-100, 0-200 and 0-300 kph times measured by french Sportauto, these are not the speedo numbers. I know, I know...a little bit confusing but I checked again and it is true.

Meaning: The Panamera Turbo S seems to be faster from 0-300 kph than the new M5 but only by aprox. 2-3 seconds (which is much but under real life driving conditions, I'd say that both cars would be head to head on a straight line with a rolling start).

Now a shocking fact: The 997 Turbo (facelift !) does 0-300 kph in...40.9 seconds. Meaning: Under real life conditions, the 997 Turbo won't be able to outrun the Panamera Turbo S or the new M5, which is kind of surprising.

So the new M5 and the Panamera Turbo S are faster from 0-300 kph than the following cars (latest models):

Porsche 997 GT3 (50.3 seconds)

Cadillac CTS-V (69.3 seconds)

Aston Martin Vantage V12 (53.7 seconds)

I think whoever chose the new M5 or the Panamera Turbo S won't be disappointed.

 

Only if the road is in perfect condition will the M5 be as quick as the Panamera turbo S below 100kph. The traction of RWD BMW cars is really not good enough. In winter it is a total mess, I have to say in relation with the M3. I don't expect the M5 to be any better...

Well...AWD all the way. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (May 2012 delivery), Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

997.2 TT does 0-300 kmh in 34-36 secs, we checked with VBOX and telemetry. This awful measurement in 40.9 secs was done in bad conditions.

Sport Auto 0-300-0 had a Speed Art tuned panamera turbo 540 hp with 52 secs to 300 kmh

But Sport Auto Times are Full fuel Tank and  2 pers on Board... Can make a difference.

Rc  on your vid for pana Turbo S Tacho 0-300 Must be 34 sec aprox and Real Time just 6 sec difference. Adapting this to the 34 secs Tacho Speed of the m5 we will get aswell 40 secs..  it is purly speculation... Tacho Speed and Real speed

Why should the m Car have 10 sec speed deviation up to 300 km/h and the pana only 5-6sec.

I am sure pana turbo s, cls 63 AMG and m5 performe the same  ore 3 Test 3 different winners, depending who has more boost the given day

Don't compare tuned cars to stock cars, sometimes tuners don't do a very good job, especially on the Panamera and Cayenne. I gave both cars actually a 13 kph speed deviation but the speedo reading isn't really that precise in the videos. In the end, I think that both, the Panamera Turbo S and the M5 have similar 0-300 kph performance figures.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (May 2012 delivery), Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

RC:

I don't understand why BMW didn't at least add a xDrive option to the M5 but I have a gut feeling that they are going to do that sooner or later. It would steal many Panamera Turbo/Turbo S customers from Porsche, I'm pretty sure about that. Also keep in mind that the new V8 50i models get a power bump to 450 hp, so the new 550iX will already attack the Panamera Turbo and the GTS at a much lower entry price. 

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (May 2012 delivery), Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

My dealer keep telling me yes there will be a xDrive version of M5 coming, and ask me to put a deposit down for one. I would imagine there will be some truth there if they want a deposit.

artur777:

997.2 TT does 0-300 kmh in 34-36 secs, we checked with VBOX and telemetry. This awful measurement in 40.9 secs was done in bad conditions.

We tested a 997 Turbo S from 0-300 kph and our result was 33.x seconds, I don't remember the precise figure anymore. So your result sounds kind of...too good. Maybe it was cold and/or you just had a very good car. The tested Turbo by Sport Auto, the one with the 41.9 seconds, did 0-200 kph in 10.8 seconds. So this car was in a pretty good shape because the Turbo S we tested did 200 kph in 10.2 or 10.3 seconds as far as I remember.

Not sure about the VBox results you mentioned but if you didn't use GPS (many avoid doing that for whatever reasons), the results, especially in the higher speed range, aren't accurate.

I rather trust test results from Sport Auto but of course it can't be excluded that they got a "bad" car or the equipment didn't work right. 

As soon as I get my Panamera Turbo S, I am going to be able to post some real life test results (after a proper break-in period of course), compared to a 997 Turbo S (we have such a car at our disposal) and hopefully the new M5. It is going to be fun. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (May 2012 delivery), Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

RC:

Well...AWD all the way. 

Well on this matter I'm always with you. For example:

Today in the evening, the snow chaos broke out in Munich. Within a few minutes the city was snowed in and no salt distributor was in sight. I would lie, if I would’nt  say that I was glad to have AWD in this moment. But the downside is, within a couple of cars are always  one which is with RWD only, and (coincidental?) which usually also driven by drivers with less skills. As a result you’re moving despite AWD at walking pace.

Here,s a petty nice video, a BMW's M5 in the snow. You maybe might also think thats an M5 prototype WITH AWD. But if you watch just the front axle thouroghly, you’ll see that this is a RWD only. Very pretty to see. But it should be noted, however, that snow at very low temperatures can be quite handy, which would explain the good performance of the M5. (sorry, its in german but nevertheless impressive to see.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCxWOebPq4g&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Rwdriven car just make no sense for Winter use nor the m or the e, cls amg

didnt even order Winter tyres. First 19 inches lookes ugly second you are just in Trouble when driving on steeper roads covered with Snow. Just yesterday evening long que behind Cars driving up to Gstaad on snowy roads with big traction problems, thats really anoying some times

You have to bear in mind that not all people live in snow laden places, hence it is not prudent to ridicule BMW for offering the car with the sportiest of choice for its transmission. I understand that you might want a 4WD vehicle for your weather conditions, but BMW decided that the M5 is not such a vehicle and that the 550X and X5/6M are the vehicles you want. The M5 is a sportier, summer vehicle.

Conny997:

RC:

Well...AWD all the way. 

Well on this matter I'm always with you. For example:

Today in the evening, the snow chaos broke out in Munich. Within a few minutes the city was snowed in and no salt distributor was in sight. I would lie, if I would’nt  say that I was glad to have AWD in this moment. But the downside is, within a couple of cars are always  one which is with RWD only, and (coincidental?) which usually also driven by drivers with less skills. As a result you’re moving despite AWD at walking pace.

Here,s a petty nice video, a BMW's M5 in the snow. You maybe might also think thats an M5 prototype WITH AWD. But if you watch just the front axle thouroghly, you’ll see that this is a RWD only. Very pretty to see. But it should be noted, however, that snow at very low temperatures can be quite handy, which would explain the good performance of the M5. (sorry, its in german but nevertheless impressive to see.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCxWOebPq4g&feature=youtube_gdata_player

You are aware that this is a professional video made by a professional company for BMW M GmbH ?

Yesterday night...I remember, it snowed like hell in Bavaria.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (May 2012 delivery), Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

REALZEUS:

You have to bear in mind that not all people live in snow laden places, hence it is not prudent to ridicule BMW for offering the car with the sportiest of choice for its transmission. I understand that you might want a 4WD vehicle for your weather conditions, but BMW decided that the M5 is not such a vehicle and that the 550X and X5/6M are the vehicles you want. The M5 is a sportier, summer vehicle.

True. A sportier summer vehicle. Then...why would someone get a M5 as a sportier summer vehicle ? Family ?

Don't get me wrong, I'm pretty sure the M5 is a fantastic ride but my dealer already testdrove one and reported that the DSC warning lamp came on very often (and he really isn't the best driver...I hope he doesn't read this ). Are you suggesting to drive the M5 on a public street with DSC turned off completely ? Most amateur drivers would crash the car sooner or later.

We're not talking about a race car here, we're talking about a sporty sedan, mostly for daily driving. Sorry but I still think that this car should have AWD but I'm also pretty sure that many will buy the M5 who actually don't need that kind of room. Why not go for the upcoming M6 instead ? Would somehow make more sense to me. Still no AWD though.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (May 2012 delivery), Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4