Crown

 a928, I bet in due time the 991 will grow on you and you'll feel dumb looking back on these posts. 

But, we all have our own opinions. Personally, I love the 991, but the 911 for me is from 1973! And the only problem I see with the 991 is the excessive badging. And the back lights are typical 911, and reminiscent of the 918 Spyder! You may not see it right away, but look how the angle of the recess follows itself up into the roofline! Its great!

 And just as much, here's three cheers for Rennteam and all of you who make this great site happen!

"People ignore design that ignores people."

Just relax, take a sip of cold beer (or whatever drink you fancy) and wait until you see this puppy in person. You will like it, even more after you drive it. 

997 owners should be happy that Porsche didn't make their cars look outdated (especially facelift owners) and future 991 owners should be happy to own/drive the latest evolution in the 911 history. A win/win situation if you ask me.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

There are 2 types of 911 fans in this forum. Those who grew up with the 911 and like its all-in-the-rear pendulum dynamics and spartan sports car layout, and those who want the latest gizmo. I belong to the 1st.

No one will convince me that the 991 will drive the same. Simply no way, given its 4" longer WB. It will drive more like a Panamera, and a Panamera drives fantastic. To the new members who love the 991, I say again - yes it will drive fantastic, perhaps more stable than the 997, but for some of us - and there ar plenty of us - that is not a good thing.

But no matter, there are plenty of great 911s since the 901 till the 997.2. Yesterday, I attended the Concours on the Avenue in Carmel, part of the Monterey Car Week. Plenty of great restored 911s - some like the '73 lime green duck tail here:

See more Concours Photos HERE.

_________________________________________________________________ 

"Dream as impractical, irrational and unnecessary as that may be... Here's to the Dreamers!" -- Porsche AG.

a928:

Ah..you still owe me some performance figures..

 

 I don't think anybody here owes you anything, boyo.

By the way, what do you drive?

"People ignore design that ignores people."

Carrara:

 a928, I bet in due time the 991 will grow on you and you'll feel dumb looking back on these posts. 

hi carrara,

well - im still young...but I dont see how as a sportscarfan and porsche fan I could be proud of a Porsche where I cannot see the engine.just as an  example...

Im a bit astonished that these points are not discussed here and no critiscism - or if anyone else has diffent ideas on the 911-  are accepted. 

So far I always had a very positive impression of rennteam as it was neutral, had facts etc..but it seems unpleasant facts are not welcome..

Look at other Porsche forums..there this things are discussed..

Anyhow, Im not forced to a buy a 991 ..so I will buy the 997 that I like...a 997 GT3 that I have is already a beauty..

take care,

a928:

Carrara:

 a928, I bet in due time the 991 will grow on you and you'll feel dumb looking back on these posts. 

hi carrara,

well - im still young...but I dont see how as a sportscarfan and porsche fan I could be proud of a Porsche where I cannot see the engine.just as an  example...

Im a bit astonished that these points are not discussed here and no critiscism - or if anyone else has diffent ideas on the 911-  are accepted. 

So far I always had a very positive impression of rennteam as it was neutral, had facts etc..but it seems unpleasant facts are not welcome..

Look at other Porsche forums..there this things are discussed..

Anyhow, Im not forced to a buy a 991 ..so I will buy the 997 that I like...a 997 GT3 that I have is already a beauty..

take care,

 On no other forum on the internet have I seen a more extensive 991 discussion...

BTW, on the 997, you can't really see much of the engine anyway...

Carrageous:

 And just as much, here's three cheers for Rennteam and all of you who make this great site happen!

I'll make that four!

Carrageous:

a928:

Ah..you still owe me some performance figures..

 

 I don't think anybody here owes you anything, boyo.

By the way, what do you drive?

I drive what you can see in my profile picture . 997 GT3  2008 (but almost sold) - to be replaced with  997 GT3 3.8L (awaiting some modifactions) or

997 GT2  (also awaiting some modifications).

Im still hesitating what to buy..both have their charm..and their pros and cons..what is sure that the 997 GT3 RS MKII is almost at GT2 level..sometimes even better..and a normal GT3 2010 can be brought to RS level ..

I dont like the RS so much as it looks a bit too "aggressive" on the streets..the GT2 or the MKII GT3 look more "diplomatic"..

Ah, I have 4 other cars too...

"Sad and tortured" face? How grim and depressing. Maybe it needs Prozac. I guess that would be in stark contrast to the grinning "large mouth bass" of the Ferrari FF! If he is indeed sad and tortured, then it is just because they have been keeping him couped up at the factory too long! Let him & his friends out already, Porsche!

I'm loving the car from the side.  The rear has grown on me and I really do like it.  The front is getting there but the bulbous headlights don't look good.  I need to see one in the flesh I think.  Bit I'm pretty happy with the way it's turned out, save the headlights.

- "I see dead pixels..."
- “When the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.”

Carrara:

 I'm just laughing at those crying the soul is dead, there is no more 911! 

Same thing every model change there is always some, coincidentally the most passionate ones in favour and against are usually owners of the outgoing model, nothing new. Then after a while, it turn out to be the best 911 ever produced once again 

I can understand discussions about looks, we haven't even seen the car in the flesh to make a informed desition but you can still discuss them. But what I always find amusing is all the pre-judgments and apocaliptic sentencing on chasis and engine aspects when the car hasn't even hit the automotive press for tests nor has anyone actually taken it for a test drive 

--

Carrara:

a928:

Carrara:

 a928, I bet in due time the 991 will grow on you and you'll feel dumb looking back on these posts. 

hi carrara,

well - im still young...but I dont see how as a sportscarfan and porsche fan I could be proud of a Porsche where I cannot see the engine.just as an  example...

Im a bit astonished that these points are not discussed here and no critiscism - or if anyone else has diffent ideas on the 911-  are accepted. 

So far I always had a very positive impression of rennteam as it was neutral, had facts etc..but it seems unpleasant facts are not welcome..

Look at other Porsche forums..there this things are discussed..

Anyhow, Im not forced to a buy a 991 ..so I will buy the 997 that I like...a 997 GT3 that I have is already a beauty..

take care,

 On no other forum on the internet have I seen a more extensive 991 discussion...

BTW, on the 997, you can't really see much of the engine anyway...

 well - look at the german forum pff..there they are heavily discussing also the "bad points" of the 991..
about the engine..I beg to disagree Sir:

1. you can see something in the 997 engine bay...with carbon air filter box it looks really nice..you can even see more than that...you as rennteam moderator should know by hard what one can see there..

2. Still - your - that excuse cannot count: why are Audi R8, Gallardo, 458, Maserati etc are so beautiful to look at their engines..but in a 911 you cant see anything anynmore? what kind of logic is this???. Even the engine of a Golf GTI for 30000$ looks better..than seing nothing (in a 100,000$ sports car ).

For me this is a real shame for Porsche..if they would have done that to the cayenne, or the panamera..but not to the 911..the sportscar of the century..

Ah, I expect an answer from you on that - otherwise youre proove that you have lost the sense of neutrality here..

Im curious to see what you answer..

ADias:

There are 2 types of 911 fans in this forum. Those who grew up with the 911 and like its all-in-the-rear pendulum dynamics and spartan sports car layout, and those who want the latest gizmo. I belong to the 1st.

No one will convince me that the 991 will drive the same. Simply no way, given its 4" longer WB. It will drive more like a Panamera, and a Panamera drives fantastic. To the new members who love the 991, I say again - yes it will drive fantastic, perhaps more stable than the 997, but for some of us - and there ar plenty of us - that is not a good thing.

But no matter, there are plenty of great 911s since the 901 till the 997.2. Yesterday, I attended the Concours on the Avenue in Carmel, part of the Monterey Car Week. Plenty of great restored 911s - some like the '73 lime green duck tail here:

See more Concours Photos HERE.

 

Hello Adias,

..I would also say I belong to the first group although I would not be in the typical age group of these people..so you see there also young people who stil care about Porsche tradition etc..

Super picture by the way...would love to have one like these..

Hi a928: just a couple of things, you are welcome to be disappointed with the new 991. Rennteam is not a forum that only welcomes positive views only. You should feel free to express whatever complaints you may have. Also, on the 911 spy shot thread (that looked at all the pre-launch speculation), there was indeed some commentary and some posts on the fact that the engine is no longer accessible on the 991. I know it's a very long thread but if you work your way through, you'll find it's there.

Hey, I know RC. When he's saying just relax about it, he's giving you some friendly advice. He (and I too) think you should hold off making your judgement until you see it in the flesh. You may still not like it even after seeing it but you owe it to yourself to at least give this car a chance to show itself properly to you before you dismiss it.

Just giving some sincere and friendly advice 

997.1 C2S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red

 a928, you make some very good points, and believe me I am upset that the engine is no longer visible. Back in the day you could see everything, but as the new come, we keep seeing less and less of the engine. Now with the 991, we see a cooling box. With the 997 we saw an engine covered up by a big cooling box, and not much else. So it's no surprise  we can't see anything now. And I agree it is sort of a shame considering how other sportscars put their engine out on display. I hope the facelift (but I'm doubtful) or the 992 (?) will reveal a bay where we can actually see the engine. BTW, I know it is still accessible, but think of the engine cover for the Cayman/Boxster. If I weren't familiar with those cars I would have no idea where to look for the engine at! At least on this new 991 there is what looks to be an engine cover. But disappointment ensues when you open it up and see a cooling box... But to me, it's not that disappointing. The rest of the car is hot, hot, hot. 

BTW, I'm not a moderator. 

On  a side note, here are the links to the 3600 wide images!

http://h5.abload.de/img/p11_0598_a4fjh4.jpg

easy_rider911:

Hi a928: just a couple of things, you are welcome to be disappointed with the new 991. Rennteam is not a forum that only welcomes positive views only. You should feel free to express whatever complaints you may have. Also, on the 911 spy shot thread (that looked at all the pre-launch speculation), there was indeed some commentary and some posts on the fact that the engine is no longer accessible on the 991. I know it's a very long thread but if you work your way through, you'll find it's there.

Hey, I know RC. When he's saying just relax about it, he's giving you some friendly advice. He (and I too) think you should hold off making your judgement until you see it in the flesh. You may still not like it even after seeing it but you owe it to yourself to at least give this car a chance to show itself properly to you before you dismiss it.

Just giving some sincere and friendly advice 

Hi easy rider,

thanks for your good and warm words.....well ...yes..but tell me about the engine room problem and the others too..how can I get over it ?

Ah, if Rennteam moderator tell me:

991.2 will have "real engine again", "improved rearlight design", 2improved center console"..than Im back in (Porsche business)..until then I will only buy 997 - or pre 997 models for collection purposes..

Uh, Im going to bed now guys...hope you can present me some 991 engine pictures tomorrow...OK..Im already dreaming...

a928:

.... you as rennteam moderator ...

 
Hi a928, just to correct a misunderstanding here ...

Carrara is a valued Rennteam member (just like you are) but he is not a Rennteam Moderator ...

Hope that helps clarify any misunderstanding 

997.1 C2S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red

 But what I always find amusing is all the pre-judgments and apocaliptic sentencing on chasis and engine aspects when the car hasn't even hit the automotive press for tests nor has anyone actually taken it for a test drive 

 

Carlos: A 4" WB increase is such a drastic change that it does not take an engineering genius to know that it will affect handling. Try it and you'll see that it will drive closer to a Panamera than to a 997.

_________________________________________________________________ 

"Dream as impractical, irrational and unnecessary as that may be... Here's to the Dreamers!" -- Porsche AG.

 LOVE IT!!!    Mostly....

It's clear the traditional round headlights are ruining the design by now. They simply don't work with the polygonal shape of the air intakes, of which the unusual turn signals are an integral part, and which are the dominant design element of the front end. 

I never thought I would say that, but those traditional headlights should have been dropped. Too bad Porsche did not have the fortitude to do it. They look so weak as a design element compared to the rest of the front end. Maybe they'll have a freer hand with the Cayman/Boxster front end.

I love the thin tail lights. The chrome lettering must go, as others have pointed out.

Kamal

Since I started this thread, here are some of my thoughts about the new 911, only regarding the optical impression of course, I'm sure it will be a blast to drive:

Is it a good looking car? Well, I'd say yes. It does look good, it looks like a 911, unmistakenly 911. I'm a bit surprised that it looks so much like a 997. Some may say this is a good thing, since it's an advantage for current 997 owners. Some may have the opinion that Porsche just wasn't bold enough to try something a bit more revolutionary, especially after the fantastic 918 concept. Anyway, for me the reason why the 991 looks more like a 997.3 than a totally new car (which it really is) is the following: the 997 is perfect as it is, so it wasn't easy for Porsche to improve without making mistakes. The difference between the situation when I saw the first 997 pics and now is, that in case of the 997 I instantly thought: wow, this thing is perfect, there is absolutely nothing I would change. This impression hasn't changed over the years, the facelift just gave the 997 a little bit different look, no better no worse. In case of the 991 there are some things, that I don't like. Don't like the lettering at the rear, totally unecessary except for the Chinese market perhaps. The rest of the rear is nice, but is it better than that of the 997? I'd say no. The side view is very nice, so are the new wheels. Also no problems with the "new" headlights (to me they look almost identical to the 997 lights), but I find the shape of the front indicators/DRL just plain wrong. They are too long at the outside, since they protrude above the air intakes and moreover they have a odd look in this area. And they are too short at the inside, since they start somewhere in the middle of the air intake. I think Joosts photoshop looks sooo much better in this respect (perhaps a little bit too much 996 but still so much better than the real thing) and I'm absolutely sure that the front intakes and indicators/DRL is the area where we will see the most significant changes when the facelift is due in a couple of years. I'm also not the biggest fan of the door mounted side mirrors, especially with this big black plastic base, but no doubt you can have this part in body colour for some small extra cash. Of course I can live with the mirrors, I just don't see any aesthetical advantage when they are door mounted. When it comes to the interior I must admit, that I absolutely love the interior of the 997.2. It's basic, it's simple, yet it does the job well and the little accents introduced with the facelift like black instead of grey, more silver and of course the new paddle steering wheel just do it for me. I have no problem with the interior of the 991, I don't mind if it looks like in the Cayenne or Panamera and surely you will get used to the new looks, but do I need it? Again I'd say no, don't need that big centre console (can't see much resemblance with the CGT here BTW), don't need that meant-to-be-stylish door inserts, don't need the new arrangement of the buttons and an electronic handbrake and never needed a wart, but especially I don't need a wart with a foreskin.

So yes, I like the 991, it surely is a good looking car, it's definitely a 911, but I would not necessarily separate from my 997 for it, especially if someone owns a car like a GTS, 4 GTS, Turbo S and of course all the GT-models.

BTW, not sure about that 6 cm increase in length, but I'm definitely happy that it got not wider than it's predecessor.

--

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

easy_rider911:

a928:

.... you as rennteam moderator ...

 
Hi a928, just to correct a misunderstanding here ...

Carrara is a valued Rennteam member (just like you are) but he is not a Rennteam Moderator ...

Hope that helps clarify any misunderstanding 

Yes...I realised that..my mistake.....have a nice evening...

ADias:

 But what I always find amusing is all the pre-judgments and apocaliptic sentencing on chasis and engine aspects when the car hasn't even hit the automotive press for tests nor has anyone actually taken it for a test drive 

 

Carlos: A 4" WB increase is such a drastic change that it does not take an engineering genius to know that it will affect handling. Try it and you'll see that it will drive closer to a Panamera than to a 997.

 

I know of one person thus far who has driven the 911, they say some handling character is lost but not all, and that it handles more like a Cayman than anything. Not a Panamera.

Adias, you may be right but you don't know this for sure since you haven't driven the car yet. If I were you, I would hold off forming a view until after you have driven the car 

Guys, as I said to others here, you all owe it to yourselves to wait until (1) you see the car in the flesh before you form a view on how it really looks and (2) you drive it for yourself before you form a view on how it drives and performs.

At the very least, today is an exciting day ... this car is full of potential ... let's wait till we try it for ourselves to see if it really delivers or not 

We're mature people ... let's not rush to judgement 

997.1 C2S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red

Speaking of ongoing (disappointing) trends, it will be interesting to see how much space (if any) is left in the front boot...

Easy,

Well said.  I can't wait to see and drive this car!

ADias:

Carlos: A 4" WB increase is such a drastic change that it does not take an engineering genius to know that it will affect handling. Try it and you'll see that it will drive closer to a Panamera than to a 997.

 

 A 4"WB increase by itself means nothing since it gets disolved in countless of other factors that in combination give out a resultant character in handling. Otherwise those that say that the 911 has the engine in the wrong place would be right.

So personally I won't venture a guess until I take one for a spin, but you better believe that if it does not handle like I like it (and you know how I like a 911, I don't option a 997 with the -20mm suspension, sport exhaust, sport seats, etc... in a car that I have done 130,000km on for nothing, and same story with my ex-996), you will be able to hear me scream it from all the way across the pond!  

Actual 991 test drive - Planet9 drives the 991.

Notice that this fellow's metric is to bring the 911 to his idea of a 'stable' car like his Cayman... Thanks, but no thanks.

_________________________________________________________________ 

"Dream as impractical, irrational and unnecessary as that may be... Here's to the Dreamers!" -- Porsche AG.

Carlos from Spain:

Carrara:

 I'm just laughing at those crying the soul is dead, there is no more 911! 

 

Same thing every model change there is always some, coincidentally the most passionate ones in favour and against are usually owners of the outgoing model, nothing new. Then after a while, it turn out to be the best 911 ever produced once again 

I can understand discussions about looks, we haven't even seen the car in the flesh to make a informed desition but you can still discuss them. But what I always find amusing is all the pre-judgments and apocaliptic sentencing on chasis and engine aspects when the car hasn't even hit the automotive press for tests nor has anyone actually taken it for a test drive 

--

HI Carlos,

Well, what the press says is one thing, but I dont buy cars on what the press says. The press will probably say the 991 is the best car and so on..and certainly in many aspects it wil be the best 911 - for example when it comes to consumption - no doubt about that...whether it offers big gains in performance...I dont see them when I read the figures in the press.

But coming back to the press, the press also said the PDK was such a great thing...when I test drove the 997 S with PDK I was disappointed..disappointed like hell I can tell you. All this media hype for this thing..its nothing compared to the 458 gearbox.

Ah something that will keep me from buying a 991S - is the engine - I drove the 385hp engine...the 991S has 400..so under normal circumstances you wont be able to feel the difference. The 9A1 engine was another disappointment ..I asked myslelf where the 385hp are...compared to my GT3 it felt I was missing 50 or more hp.  Overall the normal 997 will be the better daily car..sure...but I dont use my babys anway for daily drive..

Ah, I havent judged the electric steeringof the 991, as this you need to feel...but from BMW owners - who also own a Porsche - I know that the BMW electric steering is by far not so good as the Porsche 997, 987 etc steering..that we will have to see and feel..

I agree regarding the press. They drive these cars and form views that may be quite different to what an owner's view might be.

Also, photos are one thing but seeing the car in the flesh can be different. And the key point is this: we buy a car not a photo  

997.1 C2S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red