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    Re: 2010 German F1 Grand Prix at Hockenheim

    easy_rider911:

    Vettel tried to drive Alonso off the road and into the wall at the start and paid the price by losing 2 places

     Vettel must feel like a fool right now. he should've been more careful. I hope Ferrari can keep the 1-2p until the end of the race.

    I'm a bit disappointed about the Lotus team, I know they don't have a chance to win but at least finish the races. I'm really rooting for them as an underdog team Smiley


    Re: 2010 German F1 Grand Prix at Hockenheim

    I cannot understand why Alonso is whinging on the radio!

    Isn't Massa allowed to race for a win


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: 2010 German F1 Grand Prix at Hockenheim

    Massa doesn't owe nothing to Teflonso, quite the opposite in fact. At least you don't have to listen to the berk who comments the race on Spanish TV, who's a 24/7 whinner.


    Re: 2010 German F1 Grand Prix at Hockenheim

    reginos:

    I cannot understand why Alonso is whinging on the radio!

    Isn't Massa allowed to race for a win

     Thats just bad sportsmanship Smiley  Alonso is way too cocky.


    Re: 2010 German F1 Grand Prix at Hockenheim

    "Alonso is quicker than you. Can you confirm that you have understood that message?"

    Team orders? I would say this amounts to the same thing.

    Poor Massa. Not allowed to race for a win. Only 31 points behind with so many races to go.

    Alonso didn't earn victory today. Massa was pressured to give it to him.


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    Re: 2010 German F1 Grand Prix at Hockenheim

    What a sad way of winning a race, absolutely pathetic, puts Ferrari under Domenicalli at the same level of 'fair play' they were under Jean Todt and McLaren was under Ron Dennis.


    Re: 2010 German F1 Grand Prix at Hockenheim

    "Well done. Now stick with him. Sorry".

    We, the fans of F1, were cheated today. We want to watch racing not an orchestrated, artificially engineered result. 


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    RT Moderator - 997.1 Carrera S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection

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    Re: 2010 German F1 Grand Prix at Hockenheim

    easy_rider911:

    "Well done. Now stick with him. Sorry".

    We, the fans of F1, were cheated today. We want to watch racing not an orchestrated, artificially engineered result. 

     Agreed, It takes the emotion out of the race, Massa was driving great, he deserved to be at the top.  I want Ferrari to win but that was a crappy move. 


    Re: 2010 German F1 Grand Prix at Hockenheim

    easy_rider911:

    "Well done. Now stick with him. Sorry".

    We, the fans of F1, were cheated today. We want to watch racing not an orchestrated, artificially engineered result. 

    Well, to be honest that's quite ironic coming from a McLaren fan who has never complaint when his favorite team and driver have profited from cheating or unfair FIA decisions.


    Re: 2010 German F1 Grand Prix at Hockenheim

     Oh, pleaaaase, that is just sore loosing. Who in all seriousness could think Massa would have a faster race pace than Alonso in the race, Alonso was quicker in practice all weekend, faster in qualification, fastest lap of the race, and faster all thorugh the season... Alonso needed to get on his pace to put distance from from his rivals and all Ferrari wanted was to avoid an incident like Vettel vs Webber of Button vs Hamilton, they basically told Massa not to risk a collision when Alonso tried to overtake him since Alonso was faster, period. Mclaren have done the same with different words with Hamilton and Button...

    Of course the english supporters are not going to like this because it means that Alosno is now closer to the Mclarens and Hamilton, but thisteam order thing is plain stupid 


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    Re: 2010 German F1 Grand Prix at Hockenheim

    @gangajas: I am not a McLaren fan. Read my earlier posts. I don't support any one team. So make sure of your facts first before you post. 


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    RT Moderator - 997.1 Carrera S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection

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    Re: 2010 German F1 Grand Prix at Hockenheim

    easy_rider911:

    @gangajas: I am not a McLaren fan. Read my earlier posts. I don't support any one team. So make sure of your facts first before you post. 

    What Ferrari has done today is absolutely pathetic I agree with you, but it'd have been nice if you had complaint the same way when the FIA were handing points he didn't deserve to Hamilton or McLaren was cheating and getting away with it, just that.


    Re: 2010 German F1 Grand Prix at Hockenheim

    When McLaren stole Ferrari's confidential data - I condemned them. I am neutral.

    I am really glad that Ferrari has found much better speed - but, in my view, Massa should have been celebrating victory today.


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    Re: 2010 German F1 Grand Prix at Hockenheim

    easy_rider911:

    ...
    I am really glad that Ferrari has found much better speed - but, in my view, Massa should have been celebrating victory today.

     My thoughts exactly. I'm happy Ferrari got the 1-2 but the 1st should've been Massa.

    Edit: As i watch the press conference after the race the answers seem so fake and rehearsed, kind of makes you wish the old days were back when people had a mind of their own. Theres gonna be a lot of drama following this thing.


    Re: 2010 German F1 Grand Prix at Hockenheim

    A lot of squirming going on.  But will the FIA step in?


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    http://www.phrog.co.uk


    Re: 2010 German F1 Grand Prix at Hockenheim

    FIA President is Jean Todt - so I expect no action from them.

    Massa didn't accelerate hard out of Turn 6 in order to let Alonso through. In the post-race interviews, Alonso is claiming he passed Massa on merit. He must think we are all blind.

    Poor Massa. He sacrificed his victory for the team. I am overjoyed that Ferrari got a 1-2. It's great for F1. But the race order was fake.


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    RT Moderator - 997.1 Carrera S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection

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    Re: 2010 German F1 Grand Prix at Hockenheim

    The terrible thing for Massa is that it were Ferrari's mistakes and Teflonso's fixed race victory in Singapore that didn't let him win the 2008 Championship and see how they are paying him now.


    Re: 2010 German F1 Grand Prix at Hockenheim

    Massa knows that he must do what the team wants to keep his place at Ferrari.

    Massa nearly died 1 year ago. This was a very emotional day for Felipe. And now he has to reconcile himself to what happened today. It must really hurt.


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    RT Moderator - 997.1 Carrera S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection

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    Re: 2010 German F1 Grand Prix at Hockenheim

    What's is even more ironic is that just a few weeks ago Teflonso was whining about how the Spanish fans had seen a manipulated race when the FIA 'played' with the rules to favour his beloved Golden Boy Hamilton, wonder if he has any message to the German fans after this?

    BTW, with the lamentable spectacle Ferrari has offered that other dirty German bugger has managed to not being even asked about that blantant move at the start of the race.


    Re: 2010 German F1 Grand Prix at Hockenheim

    Agreed. Vettel started very slowly and then pushed Alonso to the side of the track. Vettel nearly drove Alonso into the wall. How was that not dangerous driving?

    Vettel tried to do the same to Webber at Silverstone.


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    Re: 2010 German F1 Grand Prix at Hockenheim

    What a poor race from the "Superheld" Vettel, who once again showed, that he can't stand pressure and is still far away from the level / skills of M. Schumacher, F. Alonso, J. Button and L. Hamilton!

    All these guys became world champion not only because of sitting the best car available at the time but much more due to there abilities behind the steeringwheel...

    As last year SV has the best car and still he's at the same level as his teammate MW, who was never know to be an extraordinary driver, quite fast, but as well inconsistant.

    It would be interesting to see the drivers mentioned above (FA, MS, LH & JB) in the RedBull what they would look like, because SV is right now celebrated and "pushed" by the german & Redbull marketing machinery!

    IMHO the german driver to cheer for is Nico Rosberg, who shows very good results and who has been judged by MS as the best & fastest teammate ever!!

    FA and LH were pair when they raced at the same team, LH ist pair to JB in this season, MS and FA had always very close fights and fought on the same level, and SV is "just pair" with MW and altough heaving the best racecar they're 21 points behind LH...

    However the move of Ferrari is to be considered it's good to see the Scuderia back on top of the racesheet as this will make the next races to come and the whole championschip even more interresting.

    Again a perfect job of the Mclaren pilots who did the best out of this race and still are in front in the championship and of RK who once more showed that he's one of the quickest guys out there and who's (unfortunatelly) sitting in the "wrong car at the wrong time"!

    IMHO the move to the right toward the wall of SV against FA was very unfair and should have been penalized somehow, because that was dangerous driving but whilst the FIA didn't do anything, FM and FA took care of this "issue" by simply beeing faster.

     


    Re: 2010 German F1 Grand Prix at Hockenheim

    Without these controversies and "dirty tricks" F1 would have been totally uninteresting. The primary spectacle is so poor.

    Watch MotoGP later on today/tonight from Laguna Seca CA, for action, thrills and real racing.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: 2010 German F1 Grand Prix at Hockenheim

    "Ferrari has been fined $100,000 and referred to the World Motor Sport Council for team orders and bringing sport into disrepute"

    From autosport.com


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: 2010 German F1 Grand Prix at Hockenheim

    On the topic of team orders I think one of the best pieces of evidence proving team orders is being overlooked.

    Much earlier in the race (not too long after the pit stop) Massa was about 3 seconds ahead of Alonso, leading the race and Rob Smedley was on the radio (piped at  least to the BBC) telling him that he could still win the race and that he needed to keep pushing.

    The subtext of the comment was clear to me - despite leading the race it was already assumed within Ferrari at that time that Massa had no real chance of being allowed to win it.

    I got the very clear impression that Rob was fighting Massa's corner and hoped that if Massa could push clear of Alonso and prove himself the faster man, he (Rob) could argue Massa's case with the team and maybe avoid the instruction to let Alonso past.

    If Massa isn't expected to let Alonso past why is winning the race being considered so unlikely that his race engineer has to be comforting him with the knowledge that it is still remotely possible for him to win the race when he is LEADING it and pit stops are out of the way?

    We all knew after that first corner that it was the "wrong" one-two for Ferrari, but when I heard that comment on the radio it was clear to me that the drivers were going to be told to change places. And so it came to pass.


    Re: 2010 German F1 Grand Prix at Hockenheim

    Ya dirty Ferrari tricks, and I as a viewer feel cheated, but then again they have done it before. I feel really sorry for Massa that there are team orders. Alonso needs to stop whining, he's getting a helping hand once again.

    Ferrari seem to have picked up some speed leaving an interesting three way battle with McLaren and RBR. Mercedes seems to be stuck at 8th/9th.


    --

    indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine..  I happen to like both :) 


    Re: 2010 German F1 Grand Prix at Hockenheim

    reginos:

    "Ferrari has been fined $100,000 and referred to the World Motor Sport Council for team orders and bringing sport into disrepute"

    From autosport.com

    Ferrari had to be punished for what they have done, I'd have even been harder with them , but I don't know why I get the impression that if another team, let's randomly say McLaren for instance, had done the same thing they'd have just received a reprimand.


    Re: 2010 German F1 Grand Prix at Hockenheim

    FIA needs to stop existing and replaced by independent bodies rather than biased ex-F1 characters.


    --

    indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine..  I happen to like both :) 


    Re: 2010 German F1 Grand Prix at Hockenheim

    gangajas:
    reginos:

    "Ferrari has been fined $100,000 and referred to the World Motor Sport Council for team orders and bringing sport into disrepute"

    From autosport.com

    Ferrari had to be punished for what they have done, I'd have even been harder with them , but I don't know why I get the impression that if another team, let's randomly say McLaren for instance, had done the same thing they'd have just received a reprimand.

    I think Ferrari did what they did in a very overt manner. The contents of the radio conversations are very explicit.

    There 2 possibilities: Either they are very naive or so arrogant to think they can get away with anything.

    I wanted the Scuderia back in the Championship for the sake of competition and more interest, but the whole season is turning sour again.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: 2010 German F1 Grand Prix at Hockenheim

     F1 is a team sport. Alonso has a better chance of winning the title and was also quicker than Massa. Had he not been allowed to pass, he would have taken heat from Vettel. As a Ferrari fan, I am extremely happy for the result and hope for many more 1-2 triumphs! The order does not matter to me, as long as the Scuderia wins both titles. 

     

    Somewhat revealingly, Alonso added that the result in Germany was for the good of the team.

    "We try to put a show always for the spectators. As Felipe said, we work for companies, we work for teams, sometimes we saw this year crashes between team-mates Today Ferrari has 42 points in its pockets. That is what we are here for. What is important is the team result."

    Source: http://en.espnf1.com/germany/motorsport/story/24364.html


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    FERRARI RULES!!!

    Re: 2010 German F1 Grand Prix at Hockenheim

    Once again Teflonso is making a complete joke of himself, that's not really the kind of show the spectaors want to watch, luckily (sic) for those who were in Hockenheim today apart from suffering a farce of a race they didn't have to listen to him whining on the radio until his teammate was forced to let him by.


     
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