CloseFYI: According to FT Germany Porsche had a good start into 2010. ( plus 8%) The Panamera sold very well with > 500 sold units for the month o January. 997 sold well as well I assume due attractive lease&finance terms. Only Boxster sales have been disappointing.
It remains to be seen if the Panamera sales remain at that level. I assume that the V6 base version will be key to remain at that level.
RC:
I hope FT means 500 Panamera sold in Germany only. Otherwise this would be very disappointing.
http://www.porsche.com/germany/aboutporsche/pressreleases/?pool=germany&id=2010-02-02
Add another 534 in the USA 
irehab:
Sorry, my mistake. These numbers are for the US market.
Now this makes sense.
127 Panamera were registered in December 2009 in Germany, I would have been very surprised to see the figure more than quadruple in January.
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (03/2010), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW
Anyone know if the 127 German/534 US market percent is consistent with past figures? I seem to recall that overall Porsche Germany sales compare to about 17% of the U.S. sales figures.
BTW, I just returned from visiting what has to be one of the world's premier private collection of Porsches. I will post some pics this week on other Rennteam boards. Phenomenal...
Wonderbar:
Anyone know if the 127 German/534 US market percent is consistent with past figures? I seem to recall that overall Porsche Germany sales compare to about 17% of the U.S. sales figures.
BTW, I just returned from visiting what has to be one of the world's premier private collection of Porsches. I will post some pics this week on other Rennteam boards. Phenomenal...
Germany was (is ?) the second largest Porsche market in the world.
The 17% of the US sales figures can't be right.
Example:
June 2009 (Germany): 1700 cars
June 2009 (USA) 2000 cars
So I think that you actually mean that Porsche sells 17% more cars in the US than in Germany. This could be right but of course it depends on the month and year.
Btw: in the same month, Porsche USA sold over 900 Cayenne in the US, almost double the figure they sold Panameras last month. 
How did the 911 ? Well...over 770 cars sold. Again more than the Panamera.
Of course June 2009 there was no Panamera but the economic situation and the optimism of buyers has improved.
Just can't wait to see the photos, thanks ! 
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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (03/2010), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW
Feb 4, 2010 9:14:03 PM
wow these numbers are really low. We have two here in Victoria, British Columbia. Makes that more special now haha.
indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine.. I happen to like both :)
_____________________________________________________________________
1984 BMW 323i 5spd 2.3L 141 hp (105 kW) More door. Black on black (parting out)
1986 BMW 325e 5spd 2.7L 121 hp (172 lb·ft) Le Mans Blau on Tan leather.
1986 BMW 325is 5spd 2.5L 168 hp (164 lb-ft) White on Tan leather (parted out)
2005 Ford Focus S, 5spd 2.0L 136 hp (120lb-ft) CD silver on grey (sold)
1986 Porsche 944, 5spd 2.5L 150 hp (168lb-ft) champagne gold on grown leather. (sold)
Feb 5, 2010 8:18:54 AM
The Panamera is a great product, Porsche just needs to "adapt" it to the European market. It can be done with a facelift and if other markets prefer the "other" Panamera, thats it.
As soon as they make the rumored switch to the A8 basis, maybe this is going to happen.
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (03/2010), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW
RC:
The Panamera is a great product, Porsche just needs to "adapt" it to the European market. It can be done with a facelift and if other markets prefer the "other" Panamera, thats it.
As soon as they make the rumored switch to the A8 basis, maybe this is going to happen.
Christian,
the A8 platform is neither better nor cheaper. Porsche has invested so much money for the Panamera platform that wouldn´t make sense. This would even have a huge impact on their accounting and balance system. The new developed platform will be for two Panamera generations, that is fact. You can bet on this information.
Btw. the basis doesn´t have any significant impact on the look of the car.
If they downsize the car, they can also switch to a different platform.
Btw: even development engineers don't have the full picture (Hint: "Der Feind hört mit"...on posters allover Weissach 
).
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (03/2010), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW
Downsizing to size of a BMW 330d? No the size if not a problem, nealry as a BMW 5, smaller then Audi A6, Audi A8, BMW 7, MB S-class, Mas QP, Bentley ....
In case of switching to a different plattform, you will have in the books the development cost without usage, in the year of switch you will produce an extra loss of around 1,5 billions of euro. You have to fix your books. No one would do this.
ALDO:
Downsizing to size of a BMW 330d? No the size if not a problem, nealry as a BMW 5, smaller then Audi A6, Audi A8, BMW 7, MB S-class, Mas QP, Bentley ....
In case of switching to a different plattform, you will have in the books the development cost without usage, in the year of switch you will produce an extra loss of around 1,5 billions of euro. You have to fix your books. No one would do this.
Sorry, maybe I expressed myself in a wrong way. I meant a visual downsizing, not a real one. I haven't seen the new A8 in person either, so it remains to be seen how big this little baby is going to look.
As to the switching to a different platform: the current platform is also used for the upcoming Panamera Coupe or CS or whatever the name will be. VW wants to use ONE platform for a bunch of models throughout the brands range. I don't have a clue WHEN the new platform will be used for the Panamera but I wouldn't hold my breath that the current platform will survive the next generation change. I highly doubt it.
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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (03/2010), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW
Feb 7, 2010 12:15:07 AM
nberry:
Why would a buyer pick the Panamera over the Cayenne? They are both Porsche's, subjectively ugly but the Cayenne has the room, utility and price over the Panamera.
Why buy the Panamera?
If you drive one you will answer your question. The Panamera drives, feels, performs and handles much better than the Cayenne. Also the interior is much nicer. To some this may offset the need for 5 seats, etc. Still I think the Cayenne will still outsell the Panamera, yes, but that doesn't mean that SUV are substitutes for luxo-sedans.
Feb 7, 2010 9:45:50 AM
Carlos from Spain:
nberry:
Why would a buyer pick the Panamera over the Cayenne? They are both Porsche's, subjectively ugly but the Cayenne has the room, utility and price over the Panamera.
Why buy the Panamera?
If you drive one you will answer your question. The Panamera drives, feels, performs and handles much better than the Cayenne. Also the interior is much nicer. To some this may offset the need for 5 seats, etc. Still I think the Cayenne will still outsell the Panamera, yes, but that doesn't mean that SUV are substitutes for luxo-sedans.
+1 +1 +1
Feb 7, 2010 11:54:21 AM
Carlos from Spain:
If you drive one you will answer your question. The Panamera drives, feels, performs and handles much better than the Cayenne. Also the interior is much nicer. To some this may offset the need for 5 seats, etc. Still I think the Cayenne will still outsell the Panamera, yes, but that doesn't mean that SUV are substitutes for luxo-sedans.
Have you driven the Cayenne Turbo S Facelift ? There isn't much difference to the drive feel compared to the Panamera Turbo.
The new Cayenne generation has been improved a lot and while I still think that even the new Cayenne Turbo couldn't achieve the same track time as the current Panamera Turbo, the difference should be not higher than 20 seconds or so on the Nordschleife. For an over 20 km long track, 20 seconds are pretty much nothing, especially since most non-professional drivers will very likely achieve similar speeds, both in the new Cayenne Turbo and Panamera Turbo.
I have to agree with Nick on this one: from my point of view, the Panamera Turbo doesn't make much sense compared to the new Cayenne Turbo but I also know that there are people out there who don't like SUVs for various reasons. For them the Panamera could be just the right car. I also doubt that high profile business men (CEOs) would drive in a SUV to work, they rather prefer limousines.
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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (03/2010), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW
sayyaaf:
Guys any idea when the Panamera coupe is due ? Any time frame ? So far no confirmation. Any inside info ?
According to a rumor, the Panamera Coupe, if it comes (all future Porsche models are under review from VW right now regarding profitability/etc.), should be available around 2012/2013, together with a possible facelift.
The question will be what platform the Coupe will use... 
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (03/2010), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW
Feb 7, 2010 1:02:49 PM
RC:Have you driven the Cayenne Turbo S Facelift ? There isn't much difference to the drive feel compared to the Panamera Turbo.
I drive fairly often my father's Cayenne S Facelift which is lighter than the Turbo and has the PASM, 20" wheels and the very important PDDC on top of it, so its about as good as a Cayenne can handle save for the GTS (which I also drove on one ocasion), and while this is subjective, the difference is night and day to me... in terms of driving dinamics, the handling is sportier and better in the Panamera, the feel and character of the chasis around the bends is sportier, the steering is more direct and the car is more agile in chanmging directions, the braking is better, the seating position is very different, the PDK vs the Cayenne's Tiptronic is much sportier and quicker, the suspensions are stiffer in sport mode, etc. And while I agree that for the "average" driver a timed lap on a track would be similar, the feel and subjective experience is very different which is what I was reffering to.
OTOH the Cayenne is more versatile, three rear seats are important, the big tall trunk with the rear door is also very usefull compared to the Panamera, the ride-height, the taller rear space for kid's chair's, etc make the Cayenne a better option for more people, but if that is not a priority (and the pricetag of the Panamera is no problem 
), then in that case the Panamera makes much more sense to me, but I do agree that this is not the case for the mayority of the people.
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IMO, the coupe will be a shortened version of the Panamera platform. A coupe version will help to sell more cars from the same platform and achieve&maintain the goal of 20.000 sales units per year.
I would be surprised if Porsche does not launch a Pana Coupe in the next 2-3 years since Porsche usually offers multiple variants of the same model. I would even go as far to say that if the Coupe is not coming, there might be no future for the Panamera model all along. Volkswagen may decide that their limousine portfolio is too crowded. However, I do not think that Volkswagen leans that way, at least I do not hope so. The Panamera overall is a very valuable addition to the Porsche line of sport cars.
The Panamera is staying for now, it is too early to decide on its fate. As far as I heard, the Coupe is also already a "done thing" but like I said before, all future Porsche projects seem to be under review from VW, so there may be a change or two in the future model portfolio.
It would be a pitty if VW decides on ditching the Panamera, the Panamera is a fantastic sedan and I really liked driving it. Wouldn't make much sense, there is still enough room for the Panamera in the VW brands/models line-up.
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (03/2010), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW
Feb 7, 2010 2:27:05 PM
I have a 2009 FL Cayenne TTS, which is the perfect car for me right now. It has fabulous power--which satisfies my addiction--and great versatility for my family of wife and two young kids (ages 8 and 14). The build quality is superb, and it handles better than almost any other sports sedan I have encountered. It is not as fast as my previous 996TT (modified), but as fast or faster than my 2007 Carrera 2S (sold two years ago). I love the color (Lava Grey Metallic), and both the interior and exterior design. A truly satisfying car for me now.
BUT, it is not a Panamera Turbo--which I have only driven briefly--and certainly not a 997TT. When a few years pass, and my daughter heads off to college, I want a more personal sports car for myself and for my "adult" friends. That's when the Panamera Turbo or Carrera Turbo becomes damn attractive.
nberry:
Two months ago the Porsche salesman begged me to test drive the Panamera. I refused because I view the car as a choice for family transport and given the choice I would choose the Cayenne. I don't like to waste my time.
It wouldn't be a waste of your time. At least you would know what you were talking about instead of using your imagination.
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