Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: 77th Edition of the 24hrs of Le Mans June, 8– 14 - Page1

Jun 16, 2009 8:14:40 AM

reginos: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus; Posts: 12130, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 20, 2005; Reply to: Spyderidol

Re: 77th Edition of the 24hrs of Le Mans June, 8– 14

@spyderidol: thanks for sharing your thorough knowledge with us.

What is the regulation regarding turbo engines? Because here Porsche are at a disadvantage compared to other manufacturers in the Production Classes. IMO Porsche N/A engines are too small compared to the V8s of Ferrari, A-M, BMW etc and therefore more stressed to produce the required output. If Porsche could use a "Porsche GT2" based car in class GT2 things would have been more even against the 430GTs. Like the 993 GT2s of the 90s.

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Jun 16, 2009 9:11:41 AM

Spyderidol: Rennteam Master; Loc: Mozambique; Posts: 5807, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 25, 2007; Reply to: reginos

Re: 77th Edition of the 24hrs of Le Mans June, 8– 14

@reginos - the current regulations are not at all favorable to turbo engines in GT2.

They are allowed, but are heavily restricted and their boost is severely limited. (again here you see the different criteria the ACO has regarding Turbo's - they don't go bananas restricting the diesel turbo's, do they?)

The 2010 rules allow fro 2.0L Turbo's in LMP1. the queastion will be what boost levels will be allowed. The ACO wants to "equalize" the performanceof the different types of engines, so it is likely we will see frequent corrections to boost levels.

I really hate this "equalizing" concept.

I wish they would just make a set of rules that are fair to all and step back and allow the manufacturers to race and develop.

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Jun 16, 2009 9:42:32 AM

Spyderidol: Rennteam Master; Loc: Mozambique; Posts: 5807, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 25, 2007; Reply to: Spyderidol

Re: 77th Edition of the 24hrs of Le Mans June, 8– 14

@ Heist - I would not be surprised if there is a Dancing Donkey GT1 in the pipeline based on the 599. (there are rumors in that direction)

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Jun 16, 2009 9:46:56 AM

Ferdie: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Europe , Germany; Posts: 8234, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 2, 2004; Reply to: Spyderidol

Re: 77th Edition of the 24hrs of Le Mans June, 8– 14

Spyderidol:

Ferdie:

If the car is quicker over one lap and a complete stint, the main flaw must be its reliability. The RSR has won the 24h at Nürburgring, this year with a significant pace to go against the Audi R8 racecars.

The RSR is not quicker over one stint. It begins to loose it's advantage as soon as the rear tires begin to ware (75% through the stint)

Also - The RSR that raced at the 24h Nurburgring was heavily restricted. Engine was not putting out anywhere near it's max.

I watched an interview with Pierre Kaffer, winner of the GT2 category in the Risi-Ferrari, and he stated that Porsche made significant improvements over the winter on the RSRs.

The Nürburgring car was only restricted this year, in the previous years none of them suffered an engine failure.

All in all, could it be that some of you might be a bit too pessimistic about Porsche´s current state of performance? I agree that the performance of the RSRs was nowhere near as good as in previous years but so was the performance of the Audi R15s. The later were newly developed for this season, with no technical restrictions but they still lost and made some uncommon mistakes. The 997 RSR, when it debuted, was inferior to the F430 as well and I simply don´t buy the reason that it is due to its rear-engined layout...

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Jun 16, 2009 11:06:48 AM

Spyderidol: Rennteam Master; Loc: Mozambique; Posts: 5807, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 25, 2007; Reply to: Ferdie

Re: 77th Edition of the 24hrs of Le Mans June, 8– 14

@ Ferdie - Remember that the RSR has just been upgraded to the 4.0L engine.

Yes, Porsche did improve the car, but that is exactly my point. They have without a shadow of a doubt made it faster, but it has also become less reliable.

Then there is the situation with the team driver line up. They were atrocious! (except for #77)

You cant take on the Dancing Donkey's (and expect to win) with those driver line-ups.

I know that they are customer teams, but Porsche has a lot of influence over how their cars are raced.

I think by now you know of my deep passion for Porsche, but I also believe that profound criticism should (and must) be directed at them when they are lacking in strategic foresight, engineering integrity and a general taking for granted of their sporting heritage.

It's disrespectful to the company, the Porsche brand, and above all to their fans/customers!

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Jun 16, 2009 11:56:14 AM

reginos: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus; Posts: 12130, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 20, 2005; Reply to: Spyderidol

Re: 77th Edition of the 24hrs of Le Mans June, 8– 14

Spyderidol:

Then there is the situation with the team driver line up. They were atrocious! (except for #77)

You cant take on the Dancing Donkey's (and expect to win) with those driver line-ups.

I know that they are customer teams, but Porsche has a lot of influence over how their cars are raced.

Good that you mentioned drivers! I wonder why 2 top Porsche Works drivers (Bernhard and Dumas) were lent to Audi to drive car #3?

LM not important enough for Porsche or was it part of the loan deal from VW in March?

--
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Jun 16, 2009 12:03:08 PM

Spyderidol: Rennteam Master; Loc: Mozambique; Posts: 5807, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 25, 2007; Reply to: reginos

Re: 77th Edition of the 24hrs of Le Mans June, 8– 14

In my euphoric and crazed dreams, I was hoping that Porsche had lent out Bernhard and Dumas in order to gain Le Mans protype experience for the rumored 2011 rule compliant LMP1 car.

I sincerely hope that it's the case. (Note that they race together in Gran Am with Penske).

As every thing else with this "new" and "improved" Porsche company, I wouldn't bet my life on this.

P.S. Knowing Wendy, Porsche porbably lent them the drivers in exchange for use of the VW Variant platform or some other "exciting" development! Smiley

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Jun 16, 2009 4:48:38 PM

Ferdie: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Europe , Germany; Posts: 8234, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 2, 2004; Reply to: Spyderidol

Re: 77th Edition of the 24hrs of Le Mans June, 8– 14

Spyderidol:

I think by now you know of my deep passion for Porsche, but I also believe that profound criticism should (and must) be directed at them when they are lacking in strategic foresight, engineering integrity and a general taking for granted of their sporting heritage.

I agree on your general view but one misses out the success the RS Spyder has had this year, not only did it win the LMP2 category but also the economical challenge.

I cannot really put the finger on the flaws on the current state of RSR but I refuse to believe the common argument that, as mentioned above, the rear-engined platform has come to the end of its development state. I assume that Porsche had been a bit shortsighted during the initial development of the 997 RSR, focussing primarily on the RS Spyder. Too much ressources and experienced staff must have been drawn off for the later, since their problems seem to have increased since the dismissal of the 996. That one was no match against the F 430 but at the end of its development cycle anyway.

I recall one of the US racing teams switching to Ferrari since not only did they find the 997 to be insufficient in performance but also the behaviour of Porsche to that time. Porsche seems to become a bit stuck-up which they can afford as long as everything works well but it hinders their forthcoming in critical conditions.

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Jun 16, 2009 6:02:05 PM

Spyderidol: Rennteam Master; Loc: Mozambique; Posts: 5807, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 25, 2007; Reply to: Ferdie

Re: 77th Edition of the 24hrs of Le Mans June, 8– 14

Yes, there were quite a few teams that left Porsche for the Dancing Donkeys.

Please don't get me wrong - I do not discount the success of the RS Spyder, but,,,,,there is no real opposition in that class. No other manufacturer (besides Accura-Honda) has invested any effort in developing a car like Porsche did.

What Porsche did with the RS Spyder is commendable and it only reflects what they are capable of doing when they set their minds to it. (I don't want to sound cynical by saying that they though they could make good money out of the program). It is particularly impressive when you know that those cars have not had any development done on them over the last year.

However, in GT2 you do have another manufacturer competing. From a marketing perspective it was extremely important that Porsche took back it's Le Mans victory from the Donkeys.

Le Mans is hallowed ground for all sports car enthusiasts and is perhaps the only sports car race that gets a reasonable press coverage. It is aslo the scene of a wonderful (and important) part of Porsche's racing heritage. For Porsche to be humiliated in that way was almost offensive to watch.

Perhaps if I knew that the CEO of Porsche was as angry and disturbed by what happened over the weak-end as I am, then I could forgive and move forward (never forget), but alas, my suspicions are that like the collapse of the financial markets, he is not even aware of the impact it has on the company.

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Jun 17, 2009 11:16:24 AM

Spyderidol: Rennteam Master; Loc: Mozambique; Posts: 5807, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 25, 2007; Reply to: Spyderidol

Re: 77th Edition of the 24hrs of Le Mans June, 8– 14

Latest - I have heard from a good source that when Porsche found out about the Flying Lizards driver line-up, they told Bergmeister that if he insisted on driving for them, then he would not receive factory support (Porsche would not pay him for the drive).

I don't know if its true (but my source is quite good) or not. If it is true, it appears that I may have been too scathing in some of my criticism of Porsche. If this is the case , I apologize.

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Jun 17, 2009 6:29:26 PM

bobr: Veteran; Loc: New York , United States; Posts: 945, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 3, 2003; Reply to: Spyderidol

Re: 77th Edition of the 24hrs of Le Mans June, 8– 14

Spyderidol....I am not surprised to see Porsche's response to Flying Lizard's driver lineup. This is a case IMO where the team owner's ego got in the way of fielding a driver team that could win. Long and Bergmeister have dominated in ALMS this year with Porsche's support. If the Flying Lizard team is serious about winning at Le Mans than they need to bring their "A" Driver Team. Absent that commitment by the team's owner than Porsche might want to consider increasing their support for Farnbacker Loles in ALMS..

Rumors are flying on this side of the ocean that Porsche is pulling back on support for remaining ALMS events this year. Only focuing on Peitit Le Mans and Laguna Seca. Hope this proves to be a false rumor...I was looking forward to seeing the 997 RSRs at Limerock in July.

--
2006 987S, Artic Silver, Cocoa, Cocoa Top 2006 Cayenne S Lapis Blue New York

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Jun 17, 2009 6:41:04 PM

Spyderidol: Rennteam Master; Loc: Mozambique; Posts: 5807, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 25, 2007; Reply to: bobr

Re: 77th Edition of the 24hrs of Le Mans June, 8– 14

I think (and hope) that there might be some confusion (on that side of the ocean) with Peugeots announcement. Peugeot announced that they would not do anymore LMS events this year and will concentrate on Petit Le Mans and Laguna Seca in the ALMS.

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Jun 17, 2009 8:10:58 PM

bobr: Veteran; Loc: New York , United States; Posts: 945, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 3, 2003; Reply to: Spyderidol

Re: 77th Edition of the 24hrs of Le Mans June, 8– 14

I am also hearing Audi will be back with the R15 for both races and perhaps mid-ohio..I think Audi realized that they need to race the R15 to complete the development process. Plus Acura will not limit themselves to ALMS..one of the teams will eventually race at Le Mans..

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2006 987S, Artic Silver, Cocoa, Cocoa Top 2006 Cayenne S Lapis Blue New York

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Jun 17, 2009 8:13:53 PM

andrea: Rennteam Master; Loc: Italy, Pordenone , Italy; Posts: 3569, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 24, 2003; Reply to: bobr

Re: 77th Edition of the 24hrs of Le Mans June, 8– 14

so Porsche wanted that Bergmeister drove for another team and not for Lizards?

--
Dedi La vita è troppo corta per non guidare italiano.....

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Jun 18, 2009 5:37:35 AM

Spyderidol: Rennteam Master; Loc: Mozambique; Posts: 5807, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 25, 2007; Reply to: andrea

Re: 77th Edition of the 24hrs of Le Mans June, 8– 14

@Andrea - I think what Porsche wanted was for the Lizards to have a driver line-up that would/could make the car competitive. You can't win a race like the 24H Le Mans (or any other endurance race) when one of the drivers is 10 seconds off the pace.

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Jun 18, 2009 6:57:04 AM

andrea: Rennteam Master; Loc: Italy, Pordenone , Italy; Posts: 3569, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 24, 2003; Reply to: Spyderidol

Re: 77th Edition of the 24hrs of Le Mans June, 8– 14

yes,I can understand. Let's hope for next year...

--
Dedi La vita è troppo corta per non guidare italiano.....

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Jun 18, 2009 9:47:41 PM

bobr: Veteran; Loc: New York , United States; Posts: 945, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 3, 2003; Reply to: andrea

Re: 77th Edition of the 24hrs of Le Mans June, 8– 14

Andrea, IMO the Flying Lizard driver team of Long & Bergmeister is a wining combination. For whatever reason Long was not part of the Le Mans driver team and that was a mistake. I hope that the Flying Lizard team owner decides to have this wining combination drive for him next year.

--
2006 987S, Artic Silver, Cocoa, Cocoa Top 2006 Cayenne S Lapis Blue New York

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Jun 19, 2009 5:36:58 AM

Spyderidol: Rennteam Master; Loc: Mozambique; Posts: 5807, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 25, 2007; Reply to: bobr

Re: 77th Edition of the 24hrs of Le Mans June, 8– 14

Long was racing in the #76 IMSA Porsche with Pilet and Narac (no-professional)

I suspect that Neiman wanted to give Darren Law (one of his co-pilots in the ALMS)a chance at Le Mans.

Whilst all of this may seems very "sportsman like" and gentlemanly, it denounces a severe lack of ambition to win.

I also think that part of the problem may have been that with the loaning of Bernhart and Dumas to Audi, and the two RS Spyder Teams requiring factory drivers, Porsche was left a little short of drivers to spread around. Never-the-less, I am sure that they expected the Lizzards to put van Overbeek in instead of Neiman.

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Jun 19, 2009 7:22:42 AM

Spyderidol: Rennteam Master; Loc: Mozambique; Posts: 5807, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 25, 2007; Reply to: Spyderidol

Re: 77th Edition of the 24hrs of Le Mans June, 8– 14

@ bobr -OT Rumor: There is a rumor circulating that there might be a Muscle Milk sponsored RS Spyder at Mid-Ohio (ALMS) with Sascha Maassen as one of the drivers.

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Jun 19, 2009 5:33:46 PM

bobr: Veteran; Loc: New York , United States; Posts: 945, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 3, 2003; Reply to: Spyderidol

Re: 77th Edition of the 24hrs of Le Mans June, 8– 14

Spyderidol.....Thanks for the news on the RS Spyder..I am wondering if it is one of the Dyson Racing Spyders that were up for sale?

--
2006 987S, Artic Silver, Cocoa, Cocoa Top 2006 Cayenne S Lapis Blue New York

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Jun 19, 2009 5:38:15 PM

Spyderidol: Rennteam Master; Loc: Mozambique; Posts: 5807, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 25, 2007; Reply to: bobr

Re: 77th Edition of the 24hrs of Le Mans June, 8– 14

Apparently so. Remember however, at this point in time, it is only a rumor.

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Jun 21, 2009 7:24:00 PM

Spyderidol: Rennteam Master; Loc: Mozambique; Posts: 5807, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 25, 2007; Reply to: Spyderidol

Re: 77th Edition of the 24hrs of Le Mans June, 8– 14

Rumor is confirmed. It is the old # 20 Dayson car.

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Jun 22, 2009 12:01:00 AM

bobr: Veteran; Loc: New York , United States; Posts: 945, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 3, 2003; Reply to: Spyderidol

Re: 77th Edition of the 24hrs of Le Mans June, 8– 14

Spyderidol, Thanks..It will be interesting to see who teams with Sascha...Patrick Long would be a logical choice.. I had the opportunity of visiting Dyson's shop last year when they were preparing the Spyders for Sebring. I was just amazed at how well these cars were engineered.

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2006 987S, Artic Silver, Cocoa, Cocoa Top 2006 Cayenne S Lapis Blue New York

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Jun 22, 2009 5:51:50 AM

Spyderidol: Rennteam Master; Loc: Mozambique; Posts: 5807, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 25, 2007; Reply to: bobr

Re: 77th Edition of the 24hrs of Le Mans June, 8– 14

The Cytosport owner/driver is Greg Pickett - father-in-law of Scott Sharp

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Jun 22, 2009 7:26:41 AM

Spyderidol: Rennteam Master; Loc: Mozambique; Posts: 5807, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 25, 2007; Reply to: Spyderidol

Re: 77th Edition of the 24hrs of Le Mans June, 8– 14

Also - aparently the #76 IMSA had severe clutch problems. It started at mid-night and they began to lag behind after that. According to Narac (who is a trained mechanic) it is a real shame because they felt they had the pace to win the race.

This "gearbox/clutch" problem seems to be the weak point.

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Jun 23, 2009 12:07:21 PM

Spyderidol: Rennteam Master; Loc: Mozambique; Posts: 5807, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 25, 2007; Reply to: Spyderidol

Re: 77th Edition of the 24hrs of Le Mans June, 8– 14

This is a quote from an article by Andrew Cotton in Porsche Post :

"A 'Weissach engineer' said: "Porsche's future is firmly in the GT category, with the 911. It is very profitable you know, and Porsche do not have the money now to start a new prototype programme".

If anyone recieves Porsche Post, would they be kind enough to upload the article?

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Jun 23, 2009 2:22:56 PM

andrea: Rennteam Master; Loc: Italy, Pordenone , Italy; Posts: 3569, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 24, 2003; Reply to: Spyderidol

Re: 77th Edition of the 24hrs of Le Mans June, 8– 14

bad news....

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Dedi La vita è troppo corta per non guidare italiano.....

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Jun 24, 2009 1:13:11 PM

bobr: Veteran; Loc: New York , United States; Posts: 945, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 3, 2003; Reply to: andrea

Re: 77th Edition of the 24hrs of Le Mans June, 8– 14

So this news from Porsche must mean no LMP1 car for 2011....

--
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Jun 28, 2009 7:46:39 AM

andrea: Rennteam Master; Loc: Italy, Pordenone , Italy; Posts: 3569, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 24, 2003; Reply to: bobr

Re: 77th Edition of the 24hrs of Le Mans June, 8– 14

Audi video about 2009 24h Le Mans

http://tv.audi.com/video/5146#/06

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Dedi La vita è troppo corta per non guidare italiano.....

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Jun 28, 2009 9:20:00 AM

Super Darius: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Italy-Como , Italy; Posts: 4084, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 7, 2002; Reply to: Spyderidol

Re: 77th Edition of the 24hrs of Le Mans June, 8– 14

At least i hope thay will take out from the cap a 911 that CAN win in LMGT2 Smiley

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