Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: Are Porsche cars crashworthy? - Page1

Jun 9, 2009 5:37:40 AM

wtsnet: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Bath, UK; Posts: 2430, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 19, 2004

Are Porsche cars crashworthy?

What I wanted to say in the title really was:

"Are Porsche's as good in a crash as we assume they are?"

One of the areas that I have always had niggling doubts about is the crash worthiness of my car. In support of the 'yes, it's safe' side, I have

It's German
It's made from high quality materials
It has been designed to work on a track, and therefore protect occupants in track-speed accidents.
It has no engine in the front, therefore allowing the design more scope for energy absorption in a frontal impact
It has lots of airbags
There have been some documented heavy barrier collisions that people have walked away from OK.

On the 'Doubt' side, I have

Why don't Porshce pay for and publish Euro-NCAP crach test results?
A design element in the passenger area bugs me - the steering adjust lever sticks out a long way, and seems like it has potential to cause knee trauma in an impact. Why couldn't this have been more recessed?

Anyone have an opinion?

Smiley

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Jun 9, 2009 6:58:13 AM

ADias: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Southwest USA , United States; Posts: 2495, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 9, 2004; Reply to: wtsnet

Re: Are Porsche cars crashworthy?

Do not leave home. Then again... most people die within a short distance of their home.

--

_________________________________________________________

A. Dias --- 997.2S (ordered). Previous cars: Corvette C6, 996 C4.

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Jun 9, 2009 9:37:27 AM

911rox: Co-Pilot; Loc: Australia , Australia; Posts: 198, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 10, 2007; Reply to: ADias

Re: Are Porsche cars crashworthy?

There cars have to pass various mandatory crash tests as do all other cars and they do all the necessary crash testing to ensure occupant safety. They also use the latest technology to ensure safety.... The NCAP issue you raise has more to do with cost then anything else.

When Ford, Toyota, Opel etc hand over half a dozen cars at a wholesale cost of say $10k each, they re-coup this on the sale of a few million units and use the results for advertising. Therefore there cost is minimal for the return.

Its a lot harder to hand over half a dozen $100k cars as is the case for Porsche to prove what you already know. That the are very crash worthy... especially when the relative volume sales are so low. (eg. 997.1 gt3's/RSs 5200 sold worldwide- How do you justify a further few for NCAP ratings testing at their price. The tens of cars already crashed at their own facility would be bad enough to incur as a cost...).

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Jun 9, 2009 8:28:05 PM

wtsnet: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Bath, UK; Posts: 2430, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 19, 2004; Reply to: 911rox

Re: Are Porsche cars crashworthy?

I don't buy the 'It costs too much to crash them' argument. That's not the manufacture cost, it's the end sale price. And plenty of other manufacturers of high-priced vehicles test theirs. I interpret it as it as arrogance. I want to see the videos of pole tests. I want to see that Porsche take our lives seriously. I don't want to see a 30mph test. At least test a Boxster or Cayman if cost were an issue.

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Jun 9, 2009 8:42:30 PM

wtsnet: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Bath, UK; Posts: 2430, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 19, 2004; Reply to: wtsnet

Re: Are Porsche cars crashworthy?

For those that aren't aware of the European crash test site:

www.euroncap.com

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Jun 9, 2009 9:07:57 PM

function_analysi: Pilot; Loc: Jeddah, Athens , Greece; Posts: 352, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 19, 2006; Reply to: wtsnet

Re: Are Porsche cars crashworthy?

If the driver survived this terrible crash at the same time that the car damages are only minor 'consumable' parts, what other tests would you need to challenge the crashworthiness of P-cars Smiley

--

------- MY07 997.1 GT3 White, CS, PCCB, Full Leather/Alcantara in Black

------- MY07 997C2S --GONE

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Jun 9, 2009 9:24:02 PM

wtsnet: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Bath, UK; Posts: 2430, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 19, 2004; Reply to: function_analysi

Re: Are Porsche cars crashworthy?

Roll cage, helmet and harness? Not standard equipment! That was quite impressive though.

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Jun 10, 2009 1:37:08 PM

911rox: Co-Pilot; Loc: Australia , Australia; Posts: 198, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 10, 2007; Reply to: wtsnet

Re: Are Porsche cars crashworthy?

wtsnet:

I don't buy the 'It costs too much to crash them' argument. That's not the manufacture cost, it's the end sale price. And plenty of other manufacturers of high-priced vehicles test theirs. I interpret it as it as arrogance. I want to see the videos of pole tests. I want to see that Porsche take our lives seriously. I don't want to see a 30mph test. At least test a Boxster or Cayman if cost were an issue.

So you are saying that they don't take our lives seriously??? What concerns exactly are you placing your lack of trust in their crashworthiness???

Want to see videos, try youtube!!! Only a couple months ago a 997 turbo went off the side of a cliff at speed, crashed, rolled and ignited and the 3 occupants are living to share it with friends today... Tried that in a ford lately????

Whilst you may not accept it, as a manufacturer they are required to meet certain mandatory safety requirements and do what is required to fulfill their legal obligations. They do not require NCAP to help sell their cars so they don't repeat for publicity.... Get over it! If you're not appeased by their safety, buy a ford!

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Jun 10, 2009 2:25:26 PM

911rox: Co-Pilot; Loc: Australia , Australia; Posts: 198, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 10, 2007; Reply to: 911rox

Re: Are Porsche cars crashworthy?

Try these for proof of non rollcaged cars:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-ReYO4O69o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20X7PNml_-Q&feature=PlayList&p=3ACC1A504760BB56&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=2

http://www.car-accidents.com/2007-auto-crash-story/5-30-07-porsche-911-crash.html

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Jun 10, 2009 6:19:22 PM

wtsnet: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Bath, UK; Posts: 2430, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 19, 2004; Reply to: 911rox

Re: Are Porsche cars crashworthy?

911rox:

Want to see videos, try youtube!!! Only a couple months ago a 997 turbo went off the side of a cliff at speed, crashed, rolled and ignited and the 3 occupants are living to share it with friends today... Tried that in a ford lately????

Blimey, you guys are so defensive! My only point of this thread was to stir some debate, to liven up the boards. Chill out a bit!

Crash tests are just that - controlled environment tests so that we can compare the measured performance of one vehicle against another. I'd just like to be able to compare the Porsche test results against the Ford test results to see how much better the Porsche is (if at all) and if there are any weak test areas, like damage to the feet from the pedals, or to the knees and upper legs from the steering column.

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Jun 10, 2009 6:38:44 PM

Ferdie: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Europe , Germany; Posts: 8234, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 2, 2004; Reply to: wtsnet

Re: Are Porsche cars crashworthy?

Porsche invested quite a bit in development starting with the 996 up to today. In fact the engine´s position may improve the crumple zones, on the other hand its deceleration has to be caught by the entire bodyshell, whereas this is not the case on a front-engined car in a head-on collision.

The dismissal of floor-hinged pedals as featured up to the 993 is quite a step in passive safety as is the feature of door- and seat-mounted sidebags. I suspect that, apart from Porsche, not many sportscar manufacturers are keen to get their cars tested by (Euro)NCAP standards since I suspect that not all of them will meet expectations. Oddly, you are one of the few to ask these questions.

As much importance I´d put into proper energy absorption, the preservation of the safety cell would be my most important feature to consider. The torsional and longitudinal rigidity of cars such as the Boxster or 911 does proof their strength on these fields and they become even more obvious if you factor in material, price and gross weight compared to rivals.

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Jun 10, 2009 6:46:51 PM

wtsnet: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Bath, UK; Posts: 2430, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 19, 2004; Reply to: Ferdie

Re: Are Porsche cars crashworthy?

Thank you Ferdie! That's the sort of response I was after. And yes, I think it is good to question, rather than be sold.

I hadn't considered the down-side of the engine being towards the back. How are floor hinged pedals worse than the current setup? I wasn't sure if the current pedals broke away in case of impact to stop the impact force traveling up your leg if you have your foot on the brake at the time of impact, or anything like that? (Don't for example Audi do this?)

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Jun 10, 2009 7:21:04 PM

ADias: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Southwest USA , United States; Posts: 2495, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 9, 2004; Reply to: wtsnet

Re: Are Porsche cars crashworthy?

I bite... if not in Europe, all Porsche models sold in the US must have passed the US std crash test. These things started here anyway. What's good for the US...

--

_________________________________________________________

A. Dias --- 997.2S (ordered). Previous cars: Corvette C6, 996 C4.

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