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    Help Pls: At what rpm does your car idle?

    After installatiion of my modded ECU, I've noticed the car idles louder than before. My tach reading at idle is a little above the 4th mark, making it around 820-840 rpm. Not just louder, but the frequency of noise is higher and therefore more stressful at traffic stops: It used to be a low freq. rumble, now it is higher in pitch and louder. My questions are:

    1. Is the car noisier because it now idles at a higher RPM? (I checked, but now don't remember any more what my pre-mod rpm was.)

    2. Or does it idle at the same rpm, but is just louder?

    3. If answer to 2 is yes, is it normal for a modded ECU car to idle louder?

    4. Could you please post your car's idle rpm, with or without mod?

    TIA. Just want to make sure it's normal for the car to do this before I bug my tuner. (Oh yes, the car does pull like a freight train, both spooling up and lag are much less.)


    --
     

    Regards,
    Can
    997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic ( Review and Pictures ) + ECU Tune ( ??? ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )


    Re: Help Pls: At what rpm does your car idle?

    Rock steady at 750 before and after.


    --

    Doug

    Houston, Texas USA 

    997TT ...RUF550


    Re: Help Pls: At what rpm does your car idle?

     

    Same over here , rock steady at 750 before and after tuning, please keep in mind i have the same package as TTGasman , maybe each package has diffrent settings/parameters? Smiley


    Re: Help Pls: At what rpm does your car idle?

    cannga:

    1. Is the car noisier because it now idles at a higher RPM? (I checked, but now don't remember any more what my pre-mod rpm was.)

    2. Or does it idle at the same rpm, but is just louder?

    3. If answer to 2 is yes, is it normal for a modded ECU car to idle louder?

    4. Could you please post your car's idle rpm, with or without mod?

    TIA. Just want to make sure it's normal for the car to do this before I bug my tuner. (Oh yes, the car does pull like a freight train, both spooling up and lag are much less.)

     

     

    It's not just RPM.  A lot of other parameters are changed with a flashed ECU which can affect your exhaust output (which causes a change in tone.)  Pull your car into your garage, close the garage door, start your car up, step out and listen to your exhaust.  Then push the sports chrono button.  I'll bet you hear a difference.  I think I responded to your post on 6speed...if my car is warmed up, and I let it idle...you'll hear the transmission rattle from the LWFW...but when I push the sports button, the rattle disappears and the exhaust deepens...the idle RPM doesn't change.  There are definately subtle parameters that change when going from stock to flashed ECU and normal to sports mode.

     

    BTW, welcome to the fraternity of speed freaks.  Smiley


    Re: Help Pls: At what rpm does your car idle?

    Thanks guys.

    So after your ECU tune, does your idle sound *louder*, even at same 750 rpm?

    Except for the louder in cabin noise at idle, everything else about the EVOMSit is OK. Well actually it's a little scary because things come up so much quicker now. I went WOT on third and had the sensation the car's front wanted to lift off the ground!


    --

    Regards,
    Can
    997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic ( Review and Pictures ) + ECU Tune ( ??? ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )


    Re: Help Pls: At what rpm does your car idle?

    Cannga , i did my ecu and exhaust at the same time so i cannot tell you if it made a diffrence at idle , chill out and enjoy your car to the max , theres nothing wrong with it :)


    Re: Help Pls: At what rpm does your car idle?

     I got the 750 too.

    FWIW, You know...,  these engines normally sound pretty unnerving when at idle. Lots of chatter, clicking, knocking, hundreds of components doing their thing. Porsche engines are known for sounding less-than-fantastic when at idle, right? A higher idle speed might slightly elevate the annoyance/concern level. Smiley

     


    --
    2007 997 Turbo


    Re: Help Pls: At what rpm does your car idle?

    Full report to follow. I am so OCD nit-picky that sometimes I do feel so sorry for the things I evaluate. But really, this "issue" is so obvious I am surprised I have never seen any mentioning of it.

    The mod does have spectacular power (more on that), but...  has a higher than stock idle rpm at 840 (now confirmed), has a loud resonance at idle (now confirmed), and has greatly diminished the low frequency component of my beloved Cargraphic exhaust (now confirmed, even with a different brand of exhaust, Fabspeed). I am going to re-flash to a stock like idle rpm of 750 and see what happens.

    The more important question is then, forget about the resonance at 840 for now -- this is going to be changed, this change in sound, basically to a more high strung and louder sound, is it common to all ECU mods? Anyone with ECU tune who has done the mod as a single isolated step (i.e. NOT mod and exhaust together) could confirm one way or another? Am I being too wimpy complaining about the loud sound?


    --
     

    Regards,
    Can
    997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic ( Review and Pictures ) + ECU Tune ( ??? ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )


    Re: Help Pls: At what rpm does your car idle?

    I had the full powerkit fitted together too so can't really comment on this.  I didn't notice any idle differences though before and after. 

    Louder certainly when starting from cold but once warms up the car is pretty quiet!

    Hey have you fitted a BMC air filter too?  This will make the car sound even better at higher RPM - like it's seriously angry!


    --


    Click for bigger picture!


    Re: Help Pls: At what rpm does your car idle?

    Alex, thanks for the helpful info. No BMC planned; it's now so noisy that I actually want less noise! The car does make a lot of hissing noise from the Diverter Valve I assume.
    What's not acceptable is the shift to a higher frequency exhaust sound. The Cargraphic with stock ECU has a beautiful low frequency growl when you feather the gas pedal to around 1200 (I am madly in love with it and does it all the time at stop sign like a juvenile delinquent. Smiley); that is now gone. And the character of sound is a more high strung note, perhaps good for others, but I can't stand it.


    --
     

    Regards,
    Can
    997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic ( Review and Pictures ) + ECU Tune ( ??? ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )


    Re: Help Pls: At what rpm does your car idle?

    cannga:

    The car does make a lot of hissing noise from the Diverter Valve I assume.

     

     

     

     

    Can,can you explain me?Smiley


    --
    997 TT, what a car/che'mmmmmaghena!!!

    Re: Help Pls: At what rpm does your car idle?

    MMD:

     I got the 750 too.

    FWIW, You know...,  these engines normally sound pretty unnerving when at idle. Lots of chatter, clicking, knocking, hundreds of components doing their thing. Porsche engines are known for sounding less-than-fantastic when at idle, right? A higher idle speed might slightly elevate the annoyance/concern level. Smiley

     

     


     

    Mine is between 750-850 around there, but I got a fabspeed exhaust.

    you know, I find those burbing and chatter on cold starts a pretty sexy sound :) These got amplified with the exhaust but the engine soon setttle into a smooth idle after around minute.

    My wife keep thinking the car/engine is broken and going to explode because of those chatter and burbing, pretty funny.

     

     


    Re: Help Pls: At what rpm does your car idle?

    cannga:

    Full report to follow. I am so OCD nit-picky that sometimes I do feel so sorry for the things I evaluate. But really, this "issue" is so obvious I am surprised I have never seen any mentioning of it.

    The mod does have spectacular power (more on that), but...  has a higher than stock idle rpm at 840 (now confirmed), has a loud resonance at idle (now confirmed), and has greatly diminished the low frequency component of my beloved Cargraphic exhaust (now confirmed, even with a different brand of exhaust, Fabspeed). I am going to re-flash to a stock like idle rpm of 750 and see what happens.

    The more important question is then, forget about the resonance at 840 for now -- this is going to be changed, this change in sound, basically to a more high strung and louder sound, is it common to all ECU mods? Anyone with ECU tune who has done the mod as a single isolated step (i.e. NOT mod and exhaust together) could confirm one way or another? Am I being too wimpy complaining about the loud sound?

     

    Can, I did my Proto ecu tune months before the CG exhaust came out in early 2007 and the idle remained exactly the same. But I did have an idle problem during one of my TX mile runs where it climbed to 1000 and it was due to a leak in the vaccum hose of the plenum, maybe you should have that checked. There was no engine light.

    Good luck 
     

     


    --

    2007 997 TT Protomotive

     


    Re: Help Pls: At what rpm does your car idle?

    Super Darius:
    cannga:

    The car does make a lot of hissing noise from the Diverter Valve I assume.

     

    Can,can you explain me?Smiley


    Sure, on the condition that you don't trust my answer 100%Smiley; I am new to all of this.

    I am talking about the hissing noise that occurs when you step on the gas pedal and then lift off quickly, jabbing it, at 3000 rpm in third or fourth gear. You should hear a hissing air noise from the engine area. This hissing noise is a lot louder and more frequent now that I have the ECU tune. I would assume it is from the increased boost.

    From Wikipedia:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blowoff_valve

    Definitions

    A compressor bypass valve (CBV), also known as a compressor relief valve or diverter valve, is a vacuum-actuated valve designed to release pressure in the intake system of a turbocharged car when the throttle is lifted or closed. This air pressure is re-circulated back into the non-pressurized end of the intake (before the turbo) but after the mass airflow sensor.

    A blowoff valve, (BOV, sometimes hooter valve, not to be confused with a dump valve) does basically the same thing, but releases the air to the atmosphere. This creates a very distinctive sound desired by many who own turbocharged sports cars. Some blowoff valves are sold with trumpet shaped exits manufactured by brands such as TurboXS more specifically the RFL blow off valve that amplify the hissing sound, as not all blowoff valves are the same, some make different noises and these designs are normally marketed towards the tuner crowd. For some owners this is the only reason to get a blowoff valve. Motor sports governed by the FIA have made it illegal to vent unmuffled blowoff valves to the atmosphere. In the United States, Australia and parts of Europe cars featuring unmuffled blowoff valves are illegal for street use.[citation needed]


    --
     

    Regards,
    Can
    997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic ( Review and Pictures ) + ECU Tune ( ??? ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )


    Re: Help Pls: At what rpm does your car idle?

    AAHTT:
    cannga:

    Full report to follow. I am so OCD nit-picky that sometimes I do feel so sorry for the things I evaluate. But really, this "issue" is so obvious I am surprised I have never seen any mentioning of it.

    The mod does have spectacular power (more on that), but...  has a higher than stock idle rpm at 840 (now confirmed), has a loud resonance at idle (now confirmed), and has greatly diminished the low frequency component of my beloved Cargraphic exhaust (now confirmed, even with a different brand of exhaust, Fabspeed). I am going to re-flash to a stock like idle rpm of 750 and see what happens.

    The more important question is then, forget about the resonance at 840 for now -- this is going to be changed, this change in sound, basically to a more high strung and louder sound, is it common to all ECU mods? Anyone with ECU tune who has done the mod as a single isolated step (i.e. NOT mod and exhaust together) could confirm one way or another? Am I being too wimpy complaining about the loud sound?

     

    Can, I did my Proto ecu tune months before the CG exhaust came out in early 2007 and the idle remained exactly the same. But I did have an idle problem during one of my TX mile runs where it climbed to 1000 and it was due to a leak in the vaccum hose of the plenum, maybe you should have that checked. There was no engine light.

    Good luck 
     

     

    Anthony thanks. There is no malfunction; we now know EVOMS increases the idle rpm from 750 to 840 rpm as part of their tune. I just happen to be the first person who asks about it.
    Outside of the noise, the EVOMS tune does generate an extraordinary amount of torque and power. It does make my commute a little less "relaxing" than before.


    --
     

    Regards,
    Can
    997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic ( Review and Pictures ) + ECU Tune ( ??? ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )


    Re: Help Pls: At what rpm does your car idle?

    cannga:
    Super Darius:
    cannga:

    The car does make a lot of hissing noise from the Diverter Valve I assume.

     

    Can,can you explain me?Smiley


    Sure, on the condition that you don't trust my answer 100%Smiley; I am new to all of this.

    I am talking about the hissing noise that occurs when you step on the gas pedal and then lift off quickly, jabbing it, at 3000 rpm in third or fourth gear. You should hear a hissing air noise from the engine area. This hissing noise is a lot louder and more frequent now that I have the ECU tune. I would assume it is from the increased boost.


    Buddy,i prefer to be sure on your answer becouse i LOVE that hissing noiseSmileySmiley,and sure is due to the increased boost.

    So i think that the time to make that Ecu mod on my car is near Smiley

    Smiley


    --
    997 TT, what a car/che'mmmmmaghena!!!


    Re: Help Pls: At what rpm does your car idle?

    Super Darius:

    Buddy,i prefer to be sure on your answer becouse i LOVE that hissing noiseSmileySmiley,and sure is due to the increased boost.

    So i think that the time to make that Ecu mod on my car is near Smiley

    Smiley

     

    Darius, do what you are comfortable with but "conventional wisdom" -- and I absolutely agree with it -- is that you need to firm up the Turbo's suspension before the ECU tune. The stock Turbo frankly is just way too soft and I am afraid a tuned Turbo will squat and lean like a drunkard walking down the slopes of Positano. It's probably not a good idea to just jack up the power without stiffening the car.
    Just a brief summary of my experience with a stage 2 tune (no tuner bashing please -- not the goal of this thread, just reporting my experience):

    Pluses:

    1. No doubt about this: The gain of power and torque is extraordinary and easily noticeable. I was skeptical of what an ECU mod stage 2 could do, not anymore. On WOT on third, the front of my Bilstein car lifts up as if it wants to go airborne Smiley. In corners, there is this eerie feeling that the rear will readily break loose with throttle application. Perhaps once I get used to the power gain this feeling will be gone. Perhaps not.
    2. Spool up (what happens when you press on gas pedal at 2000 rpm in 5th, in stock car power does not come on until 3000) is less.
    3. Lag (what happens when you press on gas pedal at 3500 rpm; here there is no spool up delay, but still a lag): much, much diminished. The car feels extremely sporty and responsive. "Jabbing" on the gas pedal on 5th gear at 3000 seems to feel the same as as 5th gear at 4000 rpm before the mod.
    The effect is that the car feels less ponderous. The enhanced agility makes it feel like a fog has been lifted from the car's behavior. It feels very quick.

    Minuses (This is just me, most of these no one seems to talk about, so please take with a table size grain of salt, maybe it's my idiosyncracies, or maybe my lack of experience, etc.):

    1. The enhanced power is perhaps a bit less linear than stock & could make the car more tricky in corners. Tuned ECU gains power by gaining boost, so I could be wrong but it seems to me most of the gain of any tune occurs after 2900-3100 or so in our turbo. What that means is there is an explosion of power at the 3000 mark, more fun yet also a bit more tricky.

    2. "Engine braking." What I mean is this, at say 60 mph, there is a difference between driving a car at 5000 rpm and driving one at 3000 rpm. At 5000, when you let go of the pedal, the car jerks as if it's more connected to the engine, at 3000 it doesn't. The tuned car does this more and therefore feels less relaxed on cruising. If you are tired from work and just want relaxed crusing, my opinion is the stock car is better.

    3. Change in exhaust sound and noise. This problem is perhaps particular to my car, or my sensitive golden ears Smiley, since no one but me seems to be talking about it. Basically after the ECU mod, there was a significant change to the sound of my beloved Cargraphic exhaust. The low frequency rumbling/growl that I so love is gone, the overall sound becomes higher pitched and more high strung, and in cabin noise is quite a bit higher. After my initial complaint, it was noted that the EVOMS tune increases idle rpm from 750 to 840. EVOMS was extremely helpful and immediately re-flashed my program to 750 idle, but that didn't help.

    So yes, I will miss the power and yes I will have to look for an alternative. In California, that means US tuner only because of our gasoline's lower Octane rating. The criteria will be:
    1. Power delivery as spectacular as EVOMSit.
    2. No change in sound.
    3. Ability to switch back to stock, like GIAC's flashloader.

    BTW, my experience reinforces the elegant idea of loading the tuned program to a spare ECU (very cheap -- only 650 or so at Sunset Imports here, plus another 200 to load Porsche original DME onto it, then the tuned program goes on top of this). The idea is not for warranty protection, but to cover "what if something goes wrong" scenarios. Within 15 minutes, my car has the original ECU back on and the beautiful sound of Cargraphic is back in all its glory. Smiley

    BTW, I found out I DID have a picture of my car at idle rpm -- the all important shot at 997 miles!

    Photo_121.707_005 Idle.jpg

     


    --

    Regards,
    Can
    997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic ( Review and Pictures ) + ECU Tune ( ??? ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )


    Re: Help Pls: At what rpm does your car idle?

    Cannga - how are your rods doing?

    http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/997-turbo-forum/505171-evoms-customer-power-is-it-real.html

     


    --


    Click for bigger picture!


    Re: Help Pls: At what rpm does your car idle?

    Alex_997TT:

    Cannga - how are your rods doing?

    http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/997-turbo-forum/505171-evoms-customer-power-is-it-real.html

     

    My rod is doing fine. Smiley Kidding. The car's rods are ok too.

    Reality is I do read those high-power threads to learn but personally couldn't care less for anything beyond stage 2 (software with exhaust change). It's my opinion, based on my extensive web research LOL, that as opposed to software change -- the ECU tune, hardware changes like intercooler, throttle body, the turbo itself, could cause (big) problems down the road. In addition I do think that more power = less daily driveability.

    The  web statistics for problems with stage 2 appears to be close to zero so that's where I will stay. And for that, rods? Meh...


    --

    Regards,
    Can
    997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic ( Review and Pictures ) + ECU Tune ( ??? ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )


    Re: Help Pls: At what rpm does your car idle?

    Call the Ruf Auto Center, ask for Hans.SmileySmiley


    --
     

    Doug

    Houston, Texas USA 

    997TT ...RUF550


    Re: Help Pls: At what rpm does your car idle?

    Thanks Can for your detailed explanationSmiley

    About how much soft are the suspension on the stock Turbo,i can tell that where i live the streets are HORRIBLE,full of holes,i must use my car NEVER with pasm on sport,i turn suspension hard only when i go on track(2/3 times for year),on the streets with suspensions on sport i have my wife ever Smiley with me,and also if i'm alone on the car i have the problem that the car jump and can't follow the road...

    I'm thinking hard if tune or not the car,also becouse of this..where i whant to go?SmileySmiley

    Smiley


    --
    997 TT, what a car/che'mmmmmaghena!!!

    Re: Help Pls: At what rpm does your car idle?

    Super Darius:

    Thanks Can for your detailed explanationSmiley

    About how much soft are the suspension on the stock Turbo,i can tell that where i live the streets are HORRIBLE,full of holes,i must use my car NEVER with pasm on sport,i turn suspension hard only when i go on track(2/3 times for year),on the streets with suspensions on sport i have my wife ever Smiley with me,and also if i'm alone on the car i have the problem that the car jump and can't follow the road...

    I'm thinking hard if tune or not the car,also becouse of this..where i whant to go?SmileySmiley

    Smiley

    Ahh in audiophiles' circle we call this the WAF. The all important WAF!!

    Re. PASM, I can't help but chuckle reading your post. You are repeating words for words my description and endless railing Smiley against stock PASM FIRM in that Bilstein thread. I would say this even if there were Porsche engineers reading my post Smiley, and that is in my opinion, PASM FIRM Gen 1 is a flawed design. In all 3 cars that I've driven (Turbo, GT2, and C2S), it is to me useless except for (nonexistent) glass smooth surface, jittery, too stiff, and actually dangerous as it makes rear of car more prone to go airborne and "walks"  sideway in higher speed mid-curve street bumps.

    Not knowing your personal preference and your streets, I can't really recommend anything. That said, I should say that Bilstein is quite different from PASM FIRM. Not as firm and much much more tolerable. The other thing you might want to consider is lowering spring, which in general I think is second choice, but in your case might help because it is a less expensive "experiment" and being progressive, *might* (I have no personal experience) feel softer with street bumps. But this much there is no doubt in my mind: Firming up the suspension is the single most important mod one should do for the Turbo. Please trust me it will transform the car on those pretty & twisty Italian roads. (I miss Italy already. Smiley)

     


    --

    Regards,
    Can
    997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic ( Review and Pictures ) + ECU Tune ( ??? ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )


    Re: Help Pls: At what rpm does your car idle?

    I took out a passenger yesterday on the Porsche Club drive who is looking to buy himself a 997.  He did the morning route in a 997.1 C4S and the afternoon route in my modified Turbo.

    He could not believe how smooth the ride was and how much less roll there was in my car!  And we were going over some seriously bumpy back roads at high and low speeds.

    So upgraded Bilsteins on -15mm ride height is absolutely fine in my opinion - even in Sports mode! 

     

    PS: don't forget the sway bars if you are going to upgrade the suspension as they make a big difference too.


    --


    Click for bigger picture!


     
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