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    Re: PDK review after 7000 km

    nberry:

    I was surprise to learn that 70% of the 997.2 buyers opted for the PDK and a similar amount did the same with the Boxster. ISmiley

    Back to rennteam after a number of month, I confess that like with PDK, I can't get used to the new and messy interface of the forum. Smiley

    I was at my dealer last week and discussed PDK. Suprisingly, I learned that less than 50% of the 997.2 delivered here were with PDK, a majority of customers still prefering the manual gearbox. I thought I was the only stubborn, old fashion, customer here but that's definitively not the case. Smiley

    Gnil, sorry to read that you are only 40% satisfied with this car which is, PDK apart, absolutely fantastic.


    --
    Nicolas


    Re: PDK review after 7000 km

    I have now 11000 km and at the moment I enjoy PDK fully..... I have lately  been using mainly the stick with manual mode ( strange....as before I would not use the stick ) and I do not use the buttons too much, only when I am too lazy to reach for the stick

    So , my love/hate saga with PDK continues, but at the moment we are on very good terms


    --
     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

    Re: PDK review after 7000 km

    Gnil:

    So , my love/hate saga with PDK continues, but at the moment we are on very good terms


    Good to hear. Smiley
     


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: PDK review after 7000 km

    I've covered 6000kms and I enjoy the PDK fully in all modes. Now, I think I would have regrets if I'd bought manual, when I consider all the pros and cons.

    I use the stick mostly when in manual and when in auto I overide with the right button. Funny, I've used the left button only very very few times!


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

    Re: PDK review after 7000 km

    reginos:

     

     in auto I overide with the right button. Funny, I've used the left button only very very few times!


    How often do you overide ? I end up doing it all the time , unless I' m on the highway with no fast/slow traffic , and I do it  with the left button only  !!


    --
     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

    Re: PDK review after 7000 km

    Gnil:
    reginos:

     

     in auto I overide with the right button. Funny, I've used the left button only very very few times!


    How often do you overide ? I end up doing it all the time , unless I' m on the highway with no fast/slow traffic , and I do it  with the left button only  !!

    When in Sport I use the brake pedal often to drop gears. In Normal mode it requires a lot of push and I prefer to overide with the button. There are some circumstances that it's more convenient to put it in Manual and use the stick. 


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

    Re: PDK review after 7000 km

    Gnil:
    reginos:

     

     in auto I overide with the right button. Funny, I've used the left button only very very few times!


    How often do you overide ? I end up doing it all the time , unless I' m on the highway with no fast/slow traffic , and I do it  with the left button only  !!

    Due to a high proportion of driving up and down mountain pass roads probably. Smiley


    --

    fritz


    Re: PDK review after 7000 km

    Rossi:
    Gnil:

    So , my love/hate saga with PDK continues, but at the moment we are on very good terms

    Good to hear. Smiley
     

    Indeed ! Smiley


    --
    Nicolas

    Re: PDK review after 7000 km

    Porsche-Jeck:

    Let me know when you're in the Eifel - now and then I spend a little time there Smiley
    Maybe I'll also attend the Porsche Sport Driving School course at the end of May.

    Hi Porsche-Jeck,

    Wrote a quite long post, but it disappeared. Smiley

    Will you or any of you other guys be attending the Porsche Sport Driving School course at the Nordschleife on the 28-29/5? We will be there and are looking forward to it.  Smiley

    We were at Nurburg from 2-10/5 and had a great time with a lot of driving. On the 5-6/5 I attended Master training at the Porsche Sport Driving school at the Grand Prix circuit, and then there was the Scuderia. Was very happy with the car and with the PDK, only helped it at a few corners to gear down more than it wanted to itself. Was also very happy to improve my score with 28 points from last year, and specially happy about the 1 I got in Bergwerk and the 2s I got on Flugplatz, Fuchsrörhre, the Carousell and Esbach. Cant wait to go down again to try and improve myself more.  Smiley


    --

    Anne Smile 
    '09 997 Carrera S, GT Silver 
    x '08 Porsche Cayman S Design Edition 1


    Re: PDK review after 7000 km

    Anne:
    Porsche-Jeck:

    Let me know when you're in the Eifel - now and then I spend a little time there Smiley
    Maybe I'll also attend the Porsche Sport Driving School course at the end of May.

    Hi Porsche-Jeck,

    Wrote a quite long post, but it disappeared. Smiley

    Will you or any of you other guys be attending the Porsche Sport Driving School course at the Nordschleife on the 28-29/5? We will be there and are looking forward to it.  Smiley

    We were at Nurburg from 2-10/5 and had a great time with a lot of driving. On the 5-6/5 I attended Master training at the Porsche Sport Driving school at the Grand Prix circuit, and then there was the Scuderia. Was very happy with the car and with the PDK, only helped it at a few corners to gear down more than it wanted to itself. Was also very happy to improve my score with 28 points from last year, and specially happy about the 1 I got in Bergwerk and the 2s I got on Flugplatz, Fuchsrörhre, the Carousell and Esbach. Cant wait to go down again to try and improve myself more.  Smiley


    Exellent !!! So what was your final score ?

     A friend was there with his Corvette Z06 and achieved an amazing 53 points !  I am reconsidering seriously to go again to the scuderia in september. And I am wondering how it will be to drive the ring with PDK ?!


    --
     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

    Re: PDK review after 7000 km

    Well just to add my little bit to the PDK initial feedback.

    I traded in my 07 Gen1 C2S Manual in for a new Gen2 C2S PDK 6 weeks ago.  One of the driving forces for my change was to get PDK. I had long been a fan of BMW's SMG technology having previously owned 2 cars fitted with it and having loved them, and I had test driven PDK and thought it was pretty much as good as SMG.

    After a few days the rose tinted spectacles effect wore off and I started to feel some lack of satisfaction in the new car compared to the previous car I had loved so much. Initially I was in denial and was convinced that I still loved PDK and tried to blame the lack of connection and feedback with the road on the new, more compliant suspension and the steering in Gen2.

    After about 2-3 weeks I was finally starting to admit to myself that all wasnt well with the new gearbox and it was actually PDK, the main reason I had changed cars, that was at the root of my feeling that the old car was actually a much better car to drive.

    Im now 6 weeks in and my dislike grows by the day. The problem for me is that I do the majority of my driving on the urban streets of a large UK city. High speed twisty lane driving actually accounts for only a small amount of my driving time. PDK does have a lot of positives, including making the car a much faster package all round and actually being quite good fun on twisty lanes. Once you get going at speed PDK comes into its own, however in the city, stop starting at the traffic lights its just truely horrible. It just feels like a damn tiptronic and to me there is no place for an automatic in a sports car that you want to get feedback from. There is a definate torque convertor 'slip' of the cluch as you set off at sedate speeds. The revs are just not directly connected to speed for the first two or three yards after setting off as they are in a manual. It also creeps forward all the time when you are waiting at the lights, so you have to keep your foot on the brake otherwise you set off. Alternatively you have to put it in "N", again just like tiptronic. The whole layout of the stick and buttons also both go further to reinforce the feeling that you are driving an automatic. 

    I'm now of the opinion that PDK is a rather slick manually operated automatic, rather than a sporty automated manual (which I still belive BMW's SMG is much much closer to being).  Its just the overall feedback of the damn thing around town thats killing it for me. Porsche have just positioned this too close to being a Tip replacement unfortunatly, and its ruined the whole thing for me.

    Im gutted to be honest. Ive spent a lot of cash upgrading to PDK and I really really wish I had my old car back instead. The old car quite simply put a grin on my face everytime I drove it. The new one just serves to make me feel disgruntled with the gearbox everytime.

    So I have the solution in hand - GT3 mk2!  Spent much of yesterday locating a dealer who still has (in theory) a Sept/Oct build slot for GT3. Ok nobody knows for sure on this, but a decent sized dealer with only 1 existing deposit looks very promising for 2009 to me! On monday morning it is my intention to finalise things and place my £10k deposit down. Then I only have to put up with PDK for 4-5 more months.


    Re: PDK review after 7000 km

    @Adam2S: Sorry to read of your frustration with PDK but I'm glad you've identified what was missing and that you have decided to reverse out of your decision.

    I have to say - many guys here have been saying all along that PDK is a Tiptronic S replacement - it is not IMO a manual replacement.

    Here is a link to my own subjective impressions:

    Link regarding my view on PDK.html

    I think it will be interesting for you to re-read the above thread in its entirety now that you have the benefit of your ownership experience. I think it will change your earlier view that you expressed here:

    Your previous view.html

    Hope you can find a 997 GT3 Mk2 - but do think carefully before buying it for daily use in city traffic: IMHO get a manual Porsche car but tailor the model and options to your expected usage.


    --

    Rennteam Moderator - 997.1 C2S Coupe GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection


    Re: PDK review after 7000 km

    East_rider911. Hahahah - I'm now laughing at my own post. I had forgotten about that, great spot and thanks for pointing it out to me!  You must have a great memory to remember my vigourous defence of PDK at that stage!

    I was just re-reading the whole thread and came across your orignal silverstone post. I think your comments on PDK are very valid indeed, but for me the biggest problem I have with PDK is its around town capabilites. Its then to me that the inherrent "Tiptronic" nature of the system is exposed to the maximum.

    Just to add a little sanity and defend my stance on the original post - At that stage I had not driven PDK and I believe given it was July 08, that not many other people had too. Everything was mainly speculation.  At that point I had assumed that Porsche would get it right and that their sequential would be as good as BMW's SMG. I had loved my 4 years of BMW SMG ownership and really thought they had the technology spot on. How could Porsche get it so wrong if BMW could do it right! Well what I hadnt factored for, is that I assume somebody at Porsche insisting that PDK was going to be a Tip replacement, not a 3rd gearbox option, and that they were not to upset the existing Tip owners by making it too sporty and "hard" to drive.  Ironically I suspect the Tip nature of being easy to drive around town will make it appeal to many people, as for most they want to save the thrills for the twisties, and have a car thats easy around town. For me with my 90% around town, thats where I have to get my thrills and feedback - PDK isnt for me. I made a miskate and I hold my hands up now! I appologise to anybody I "savaged"  in a previous post in my defence of PDK! hehehe Smiley

    Re the GT3, I test drove a GT3 mk1 (in lux not clubsport spec) round town last week and found it very compliant indeed. I did have some worries in this respect so I insisted on the test drive being on my test track, not theirs this time!  The only real negative is that the cluch is much less forgiving than on C2S and I almost (I caught it though!) stalled it twice - DOH! Some of this I guess was having been out of a manual for 6 weeks. The overall experience was ceratinly of a car I could be happy with day to day. Not so of my previous experience of a full spec clubsport GT3RS - really hardcore and too much for me. Much of this must be the clubsport spec though.  Im assuming GT3 mk2 will benefit from the Gen2 softer ride and that the improved creature comforts inside will make mk2 an even easier place to be than mk1.


    Re: PDK review after 7000 km

    Adam2S:

    I'm now of the opinion that PDK is a rather slick manually operated automatic, rather than a sporty automated manual...


    I'd say that's the quintessence of PDK.

    Adam, sad to hear that PDK spoils the joy of your new car, but good to know you found a "solution" for it, which is called GT3. Smiley


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: PDK review after 7000 km

    Adam2S, I cannot see why you are not satisfied with the PDK, because I love mine Smiley

    If you ever want to sell your car, especially within the warranty, let us know Smiley


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

    Re: PDK review after 7000 km

    Adam2S:

    Ironically I suspect the Tip nature of being easy to drive around town will make it appeal to many people, as for most they want to save the thrills for the twisties, and have a car thats easy around town.


    Since PDK has replaced the Tip, this definitely is the case. On my behalf I like the amenities of the DSG or PDK in town, so that I would choose PDK over manual for that reason. Give me a Ferrari-like paddel-flip for the twisties and it would be perfect. But it all depends on where you drive the car the most.
     


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: PDK review after 7000 km

    Rossi:
    Adam2S:

    Ironically I suspect the Tip nature of being easy to drive around town will make it appeal to many people, as for most they want to save the thrills for the twisties, and have a car thats easy around town.


    Since PDK has replaced the Tip, this definitely is the case. On my behalf I like the amenities of the DSG or PDK in town, so that I would choose PDK over manual for that reason. Give me a Ferrari-like paddel-flip for the twisties and it would be perfect. But it all depends on where you drive the car the most.
     

    Rossi, on the twisties it's best in Manual Mode and I change interchangably either with the buttons or the stick depending on what suits my hands at any given moment. Very very easy and very satisfying after 7000kms. I test drove a Golf last weekend with + and - paddles and although I couldn't find anything wrong with this type of interface, I couldn't find any upside either.


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

    Re: PDK review after 7000 km

    reginos:
    Rossi:
    Adam2S:

    Ironically I suspect the Tip nature of being easy to drive around town will make it appeal to many people, as for most they want to save the thrills for the twisties, and have a car thats easy around town.


    Since PDK has replaced the Tip, this definitely is the case. On my behalf I like the amenities of the DSG or PDK in town, so that I would choose PDK over manual for that reason. Give me a Ferrari-like paddel-flip for the twisties and it would be perfect. But it all depends on where you drive the car the most.
     

    Rossi, on the twisties it's best in Manual Mode and I change interchangably either with the buttons or the stick depending on what suits my hands at any given moment. Very very easy and very satisfying after 7000kms. I test drove a Golf last weekend with + and - paddles and although I couldn't find anything wrong with this type of interface, I couldn't find any upside either.


    Reginos, I'm not the biggest fan of the steering wheel attached buttons of the Golf either, but I'm totally used to the fixed paddles of Ferrari, which serves me best and of which I think are the best solution for paddle shifters. Using the stick works fine also, as I could see with my extensive PDK testdrive, but there you have to take your right hand off the wheel.

    So it's good to hear (for me) that Porsche will offer a paddle version of the PDK from next MY onwards, let's hope it will be one with fixed paddles, if it's not, I would still prefer a system similar to that of the DSG-Golf to the current Tiptronic-like solution of Porsche. Smiley
     


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: PDK review after 7000 km

    I expect it to be the VW/Audi system rather than the fixed paddles.


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

    Re: PDK review after 7000 km

    I completely agree with Adam, Easy and Rossi as well on the PDK vs manual. I'm sorry PDK wasn't for you but its a great excuse for a GT3 so all is well that ends well


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    Re: PDK review after 7000 km

    Gnil:
    Exellent !!! So what was your final score ?

     A friend was there with his Corvette Z06 and achieved an amazing 53 points !  I am reconsidering seriously to go again to the scuderia in september. And I am wondering how it will be to drive the ring with PDK ?!

    The score was 76, so its not much to boast about. Smiley I had two 6-point curves and three 5-point curves, so there is plenty to improve. But it actually gave me one of these metal things as nr 3 of the R-drivers in my group. But there were 4 S-drivers who were better, so I was just lucky regarding that. I was placed as a R-driver just because I won the ladies cup for sportfahrers last year, with the score I had then I should still have been placed in the S-group.

    I´m actually seriously considering signing up for the fall course as well. As it looks I will not be able to go in spring because of this big convention I will be responsible for at work. I will have to decide very soon. Do you know how the fall courses are compared to the spring courses? 

    You should really go and try out the PDK at the ring, I really loved it. Drove it in Sport Plus and with the stiff suspension, and only had to "help" it a few places. Its amazingly fast. The only thing is that I think I would like the car to be even stiffer/harder when pushing it.


    --

    Anne Smile 
    '09 997 Carrera S, GT Silver 
    x '08 Porsche Cayman S Design Edition 1


    Re: PDK review after 7000 km

    Adam2S:

    ... There is a definate torque convertor 'slip' of the cluch as you set off at sedate speeds. The revs are just not directly connected to speed for the first two or three yards after setting off as they are in a manual. It also creeps forward all the time when you are waiting at the lights, so you have to keep your foot on the brake otherwise you set off. Alternatively you have to put it in "N", again just like tiptronic. 

     

    Re your slow takeoff objection: PDK is only slow starting in D mode, if your SC is set in Normal. Switch SC to Sport, or shift manually for faster takeoffs. And I'm not talking LC in Sports Plus... :)

    Re: your objection to slow creep. How do you keep a manual car still while stopped at a traffic light? You either left foot clutch down (bad thing wears out bearing) or stick it in neutral, and, for safety, right foot on brake. What's the difference for a PDK (or Tip)? The thing is PDK (or Tip) gives the convenience of just braking... but you do not have to. In all my auto cars while I wait at a traffic light I brake and  put the car in neutral.

    Sorry but the objections you have depend on operation practices.


    --

    ________________________ 

    A. Dias

    Corvette C6 coupe (sold)

    996 C4 (sold)


    Re: PDK review after 7000 km

    Anne:
    Hi Porsche-Jeck,

    Wrote a quite long post, but it disappeared. Smiley

    Will you or any of you other guys be attending the Porsche Sport Driving School course at the Nordschleife on the 28-29/5? We will be there and are looking forward to it.  Smiley


    Hi Anne, sorry to hear about your disappeared post Smiley

    Yes, I'll attend the Performance Training at NoS on 28/29 May Smiley I'm looking forward to meet you in the Green Hell Smiley Good to hear that you already had such a great experience there earlier this May (I had a NoS break from 1st May - Pistenclub trackday - till yesterday Smiley)

    On the PDK topic: today I had a chat at NoS with a guy who bought a 997S PDK for "NoS use only". He got the car in January and drove 300 laps meanwhile Smiley He's completely happy with the car and did not have any technical probs whatsoever Smiley And he's not just cruising around the track nor does he take the "Weicheier line" at the Caroussel Smiley

     


    --
    public roads: Porsche 987 S Seal/Cocoa, toll road Smiley : Porsche 997 GT3 Arctic/Black


    Re: PDK review after 7000 km

     

    reginos:
    There is some talk of Porsche offering a "classical" paddle interface next year, as an option. I hope they do that so as to end all this useless debate.

    I have heard that this is coming already this year and that the part number already is ready. But its difficult to get anything more out of them.... Smiley

     

    Gnil:

    So , my love/hate saga with PDK continues, but at the moment we are on very good terms 

     

    Good to hear! Smiley

     

    Adam2S:

    Im gutted to be honest. Ive spent a lot of cash upgrading to PDK and I really really wish I had my old car back instead. 

     

    I´m really sorry to hear that your not happy about your car Adam. Smiley

    Do you have the sport chrono plus? In which mode do you drive your car in the city?

    Since my car is also my daily drive I think its perfect with the PDK. When in heavy traffic, driving in 5-20 km/h and stopping all the time I find it quite nice not having to use the clutch all the time. When the traffic is better and maybe at traffic lights the sport mode is ok. Or sport plus if there is a ca beside me that obviously wants to race me for the first meters. Smiley It´s like a complete different car then....

     

    Carlos from Spain:

    I completely agree with Adam, Easy and Rossi as well on the PDK vs manual. I'm sorry PDK wasn't for you but its a great excuse for a GT3  so all is well that ends well 

     

    I aggree. I think the GT3 with PDK (and new steering wheel with paddles) will be very interesting. Smiley 


    --

    Anne Smile 
    '09 997 Carrera S, GT Silver 
    x '08 Porsche Cayman S Design Edition 1


    Re: PDK review after 7000 km

    Porsche-Jeck:

    Yes, I'll attend the Performance Training at NoS on 28/29 May Smiley I'm looking forward to meet you in the Green Hell Smiley Good to hear that you already had such a great experience there earlier this May (I had a NoS break from 1st May - Pistenclub trackday - till yesterday Smiley)

    On the PDK topic: today I had a chat at NoS with a guy who bought a 997S PDK for "NoS use only". He got the car in January and drove 300 laps meanwhile Smiley He's completely happy with the car and did not have any technical probs whatsoever Smiley And he's not just cruising around the track nor does he take the "Weicheier line" at the Caroussel Smiley

     

    I´m happy to hear that you are attending, we´re looking forward to seeing you there. Smiley We´ll be driving the two cars in my avatar.

    What is the "Weicheler line" at the caroussell? The outside line? I´m not surprised about what you heard from the guy you talked to today. It feels better and better with each lap and as you learn to make the best possible use of the PDK and the car. Smiley

     


    --

    Anne Smile 
    '09 997 Carrera S, GT Silver 
    x '08 Porsche Cayman S Design Edition 1


    Re: PDK review after 7000 km

    Anne:
    What is the "Weicheler line" at the caroussell? The outside line?


    SmileySmiley weich.jpg


    --
    public roads: Porsche 987 S Seal/Cocoa, toll road Smiley : Porsche 997 GT3 Arctic/Black

    Re: PDK review after 7000 km

    ADias:

    Re: your objection to slow creep. How do you keep a manual car still while stopped at a traffic light? You either left foot clutch down (bad thing wears out bearing) or stick it in neutral, and, for safety, right foot on brake. What's the difference for a PDK (or Tip)? The thing is PDK (or Tip) gives the convenience of just braking... but you do not have to. In all my auto cars while I wait at a traffic light I brake and  put the car in neutral.

    Sorry but the objections you have depend on operation practices.


    I am comparing the creep to the way BMW's SMG2 system handled the same situation. With the BMW system you could shift down to "0" gear even when still in gear when manual mode was selected. You could even select 2nd gear to set off at the lights (in case it was icy and you didnt want to overdo the power). You cant do either of these things with PDK - if you are in D or M and waiting at the lights then its in 1st gear and its creeping forward so you have to have your foot on the brake. Also with SMG2 even if you were in 1st gear the car didnt creep anyway so there was no need to hold the brake pedal (unless you were on a hill), it sat there quite happily in 1st gear with the cluch fully (automatically) pressed and only when you pressed the accelerator did the cluch engage and the car moved forward. Yes, that resulted in a bit of a thump / jerky start at times if you were over eager with the throttle, but all in all it left you feeling you were still driving a manual gearbox with a computer operating the cluch for you. PDK leaves you 100% feeling you are driving a automatic in such circumastances. These may be small differences to some, but they make a huge overall impression to me about the nature of the gearbox - more so than ever around the city.

    If I could select "0" on the buttons things might be a little better in my mind but the fact I have to move the automatic gate layout stick just re-inforces the the whole auto sensation. Even BMW's SMG gearstick resembed a more like a manual stick in looks and gate layout than PDK does.

    Anne - Yes I have SC+ and I have been driving the PDK car in sport and manual pretty much all of the time since the day I collected the car so far - and I still hate the way it sets off at lights. Its nothing to do with the change from 1st to 2nd, its the way it sets off initialy if you are just driving sedatly around town. Floor the throttle and its very different, and indeed much better but in the city this just isnt viable all of the time. I had initially discounted Sport Plus as a little bit too hardcore as it redlines in "D" mode and its lack of ever using 7th also made me further think it wasnt worth using. That said this weekend Ive been using M mode & Sport Plus and it is a little better than Sport at setting off at the lights, that I will concede. That said its a 10-20% improvement only and the basic design still leaves me feeling that is an automatic box.

    Sorry guys, Im now a huge Porsche fan and the 911 is truely a better car than the M3 in so many ways, but the old E46 SMG2 system knocked spots off PDK for driver involvement. It really felt like a manual gearbox with no clutch pedal and in 4 years of ownership of two cars with it I never regretted it for 1 day. 6 weeks into PDK and Im already ready to sell the car despite the financial huge loss I will face. I suspect the latest BMW E92 M3 DCT gearbox (being a dual clutch system also) might well be more like PDK than its predecessor but as Ive never driven it I cant say for sure. Would indeed be a shame if BMW moved the way porsche has with PDK in favour of its old SMG just to make the thing smoother. SMGs may have given you a bit of a thump everytime it changed gears but it left you feeling it was a manual not an automatic.


    Re: PDK review after 7000 km

    Adam2S:
    ADias:

    Re: your objection to slow creep. How do you keep a manual car still while stopped at a traffic light? You either left foot clutch down (bad thing wears out bearing) or stick it in neutral, and, for safety, right foot on brake. What's the difference for a PDK (or Tip)? The thing is PDK (or Tip) gives the convenience of just braking... but you do not have to. In all my auto cars while I wait at a traffic light I brake and  put the car in neutral.

    Sorry but the objections you have depend on operation practices.


    I am comparing the creep to the way BMW's SMG2 system handled the same situation. With the BMW system you could shift down to "0" gear even when still in gear when manual mode was selected. You could even select 2nd gear to set off at the lights (in case it was icy and you didnt want to overdo the power). You cant do either of these things with PDK - if you are in D or M and waiting at the lights then its in 1st gear and its creeping forward so you have to have your foot on the brake. Also with SMG2 even if you were in 1st gear the car didnt creep anyway so there was no need to hold the brake pedal (unless you were on a hill), it sat there quite happily in 1st gear with the cluch fully (automatically) pressed and only when you pressed the accelerator did the cluch engage and the car moved forward. Yes, that resulted in a bit of a thump / jerky start at times if you were over eager with the throttle, but all in all it left you feeling you were still driving a manual gearbox with a computer operating the cluch for you. PDK leaves you 100% feeling you are driving a automatic in such circumastances. These may be small differences to some, but they make a huge overall impression to me about the nature of the gearbox - more so than ever around the city.

    If I could select "0" on the buttons things might be a little better in my mind but the fact I have to move the automatic gate layout stick just re-inforces the the whole auto sensation. Even BMW's SMG gearstick resembed a more like a manual stick in looks and gate layout than PDK does.

     

     

    That '0' BMW tranny position  is no more no less than N (neutral) on the PDK or on a manual. I think that people are discussing here how many angels fit on a head pin. It's all mental. :)

    If it were possible, I wonder how a class of drivers (perhaps from another universe) who only knew PDK (who had never seen manuals or SMGs or whatever), would react if all of a sudden manufacturers would push on them SMGs or even manuals. The reactions might be the opposite of the negative reactions we see from some in our universe. Smiley

     


    --

    ________________________ 

    A. Dias

    Corvette C6 coupe (sold)

    996 C4 (sold)


    Re: PDK review after 7000 km

    Anne:
    Gnil:
    Exellent !!! So what was your final score ?

     A friend was there with his Corvette Z06 and achieved an amazing 53 points !  I am reconsidering seriously to go again to the scuderia in september. And I am wondering how it will be to drive the ring with PDK ?!

    The score was 76, so its not much to boast about. Smiley I had two 6-point curves and three 5-point curves, so there is plenty to improve. But it actually gave me one of these metal things as nr 3 of the R-drivers in my group. But there were 4 S-drivers who were better, so I was just lucky regarding that. I was placed as a R-driver just because I won the ladies cup for sportfahrers last year, with the score I had then I should still have been placed in the S-group.

    I´m actually seriously considering signing up for the fall course as well. As it looks I will not be able to go in spring because of this big convention I will be responsible for at work. I will have to decide very soon. Do you know how the fall courses are compared to the spring courses? 

    You should really go and try out the PDK at the ring, I really loved it. Drove it in Sport Plus and with the stiff suspension, and only had to "help" it a few places. Its amazingly fast. The only thing is that I think I would like the car to be even stiffer/harder when pushing it.


    I have done the scuderia 3 times and my best and last score was 85 which gave me the R. So I still have loads to improve and could learn from you Smiley I have the sports suspension so I hope that it will be stiff enough on sports position...but, last week I did some 'spirited' driving  in Italy  on some very twistie  and bumpy roads and even with the sports suspension on I thought it needed to be more stiff sometimes.

    I have never been in spring to the Scuderia but in september I have find it to be very nice. There are slightly les people as you don't get the ones that need to do their racing licence for the season. Weather was good two times, bad one. There is always a very big crowd from Sweeden ( Ring Runners) ...but I can imagine all is more or less the same.


    --
     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

    Re: PDK review after 7000 km

    Adam2S:

    Anne - Yes I have SC+ and I have been driving the PDK car in sport and manual pretty much all of the time since the day I collected the car so far - and I still hate the way it sets off at lights. Its nothing to do with the change from 1st to 2nd, its the way it sets off initialy if you are just driving sedatly around town. Floor the throttle and its very different, and indeed much better but in the city this just isnt viable all of the time. I had initially discounted Sport Plus as a little bit too hardcore as it redlines in "D" mode and its lack of ever using 7th also made me further think it wasnt worth using. That said this weekend Ive been using M mode & Sport Plus and it is a little better than Sport at setting off at the lights, that I will concede. That said its a 10-20% improvement only and the basic design still leaves me feeling that is an automatic box.

    Sorry guys, Im now a huge Porsche fan and the 911 is truely a better car than the M3 in so many ways, but the old E46 SMG2 system knocked spots off PDK for driver involvement. It really felt like a manual gearbox with no clutch pedal and in 4 years of ownership of two cars with it I never regretted it for 1 day. 6 weeks into PDK and Im already ready to sell the car despite the financial huge loss I will face. I suspect the latest BMW E92 M3 DCT gearbox (being a dual clutch system also) might well be more like PDK than its predecessor but as Ive never driven it I cant say for sure. Would indeed be a shame if BMW moved the way porsche has with PDK in favour of its old SMG just to make the thing smoother. SMGs may have given you a bit of a thump everytime it changed gears but it left you feeling it was a manual not an automatic.

    Adam , I am sorry to hear that you so much disappointed. I have a real love/hate with my PDK. It took me about 10'000 km to really get into it, but like you, I still completely hate the 'automatic' feeling at the start, or when using that ' stick' , or when having to put the car in reverse or in park.
     

    Sometimes I fell great about the wide range PDK offers but sometimes I also feel I lose some of the pleasure because it's less involving.  I have no regrets that I choose PDK for this car, but the next will probably be a manual again.


    --
     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

     
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