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    03.03.2006 14:40:12

    964C2
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    964C2
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    Track test between a RSR and CGT

    The latest issue of R&T has an interesting article, a track test between a stock Carrera GT and an ALMS GT2 class RSR. The RSR was 9 seconds a lap faster than the Carrera GT on a 10 turn 1.5 mile track. The driver was Patrick Long. Not sure what this proves, but interesting in any case.

    03.03.2006 14:51:16

    W8MM
    Rennteam Master
    W8MM
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    Antwort auf: 964C2

    Re: Track test between a RSR and CGT

    I think it proves that race rubber and track-specific alignment specs are a pretty big deal in lap time comparisons. Once one achieves a certain level of chassis competence and power-to-weight parity, probably they are the dominant differences.

    It's about the sort of difference I might have speculated without reading the article.

    03.03.2006 15:01:52

    Dr. Phil Offline
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    Dr. Phil
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    Antwort auf: W8MM

    Re: Track test between a RSR and CGT

    9 secnds a lap?? That is an eternity!
    But no surprise that the CGT cant follow a race spec car.
    A friend of mine had a CGT for a while, but sold it and took up Formula Renault instead, saying the the CGT was way too slow and heavy if you want real racing action.
    The Racing slicks alone makes a world of difference.

    03.03.2006 15:33:07

    964C2
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    964C2
    Loc: Dallas, TX , Vereinigte Staaten von Amerika
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    Antwort auf: W8MM

    Re: Track test between a RSR and CGT

    Quote:
    W8MM said:
    I think it proves that race rubber and track-specific alignment specs are a pretty big deal in lap time comparisons. Once one achieves a certain level of chassis competence and power-to-weight parity, probably they are the dominant differences.

    It's about the sort of difference I might have speculated without reading the article.


    For sure.....the article says that the on-track data collection suggested that both cars accelerate at the same rate and brake at nearly the same rate (with the RSR having a slight edge), but that with the racing slicks, less pitch-sensitive chassis and rear-engine layout, the RSR allows the driver to carry more speed into the corner and get on the throttle sooner exiting the corner.This produces higher cornering speed, better launch out of the corners and higher terminal velocity on the straights....this translated to the 9 second difference.
    Patrick Long did speculate with some chassis tuning, lowering and race slicks that the two cars would be very close on this track.

    03.03.2006 15:46:34

    Avantgarde
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    Avantgarde
    Loc: City State
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    Antwort auf: 964C2

    Re: Track test between a RSR and CGT

    I would suspect that its the rear engine layout that separates the vast timings apart.
    9 seconds in one single lap is an awfully long time for just tire differences alone

    03.03.2006 17:10:56

    edz
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    edz
    Loc: South Orange County
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    Antwort auf: Avantgarde

    Re: Track test between a RSR and CGT

    IMHO, CGT is a fantastic car but still it does not feel or ride like a pure bred race car and I am sure it was never intended to be. It takes some time to get used to the clutch and shifting, which is fine and it's merely part of getting to know the car. It has crisp acceleration and plenty of torque but the Ferrari F50 gave me more of a race car feel. CGT is more docile than the F50 and easier to command. I have not driven the Enzo, but the F50 is a pure pleasure to drive. I am a Porsche man not a Ferrari guy but F50 is a monster of a car. I think the CGT handles better than the F50 less of over steer and more nimble in the corners, despite the fact that the F50 really makes you feel you are driving a super race car. Again gents, I am not a race car driver just a car ethusiast. I

    03.03.2006 18:29:55

    JimFlat6
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    Antwort auf: edz

    Re: Track test between a RSR and CGT

    I think its a testament to the CGT that it was even that close!

    No way any other street car would have been closer. The ALMS GT2 class RSR is a diabolically outstanding race car.

    03.03.2006 23:34:44

    Grant
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    Grant
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    Antwort auf: JimFlat6

    Re: Track test between a RSR and CGT

    I think race tires would be good for 4 or 5 seconds and alignment a couple more. I think the RSR probably has those sweet external cannister adjustable dampers that make a pretty big difference too. Also, isn't the RSR quite a bit lighter (even if the power/weight is the same, lightness has other benefits)?

    03.03.2006 23:51:49

    JimFlat6
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    JimFlat6
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    Antwort auf: Grant

    Re: Track test between a RSR and CGT

    That specific RSR is the most successful one in its class.:w So that Porsche 914 V10 er CGT, did outstanding for a road car in that match up.

    The CGT is the total embodiment of 914 technology, right down to its 914 like side windows and sketchy heater!



    04.03.2006 00:01:06

    Dr. Phil Offline
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    Dr. Phil
    Loc: Denmark , Dänemark
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    Antwort auf: JimFlat6

    Re: Track test between a RSR and CGT

    Check this for quantizing the difference between R compound (not slicks) and regular street tires.

    http://www.ncr-pca.org/autocross/r-tires.htm

    04.03.2006 00:25:57

    nberry Offline
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    nberry
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    Antwort auf: Dr. Phil

    Re: Track test between a RSR and CGT

    Quote:
    Dr. Phil said:
    9 secnds a lap?? That is an eternity!
    But no surprise that the CGT cant follow a race spec car.
    A friend of mine had a CGT for a while, but sold it and took up Formula Renault instead, saying the the CGT was way too slow and heavy if you want real racing action.
    The Racing slicks alone makes a world of difference.



    Well I guess it only proves everything is relative. To say that the CGT is too slow is beyond my comprehension. It is mind-boggling fast and grips like it was on rails in corners. I am not sure what he expected from a street car.

    04.03.2006 00:57:51

    Dr. Phil Offline
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    Dr. Phil
    Loc: Denmark , Dänemark
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    Antwort auf: nberry

    Re: Track test between a RSR and CGT

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    Dr. Phil said:
    9 secnds a lap?? That is an eternity!
    But no surprise that the CGT cant follow a race spec car.
    A friend of mine had a CGT for a while, but sold it and took up Formula Renault instead, saying the the CGT was way too slow and heavy if you want real racing action.
    The Racing slicks alone makes a world of difference.



    Well I guess it only proves everything is relative. To say that the CGT is too slow is beyond my comprehension. It is mind-boggling fast and grips like it was on rails in corners. I am not sure what he expected from a street car.




    Nick ,as u can see from my quote, he said it was too slow for racing.
    He liked the pace allright, but got more bang for the buck with a Formula car...apparently.
    I believe his reasoning was, that the CGT is neither a racecar nor a practical/economical everyday car.
    Remember, the CGT is appr. 1.8 mio USD in Denmark.
    U can get of lot af racecar for that money.
    So he bought a seat in a private F1. Some rich guy in Spain has a fleet of used Benetton F1 racers and a teeam to service them. He also built his own racetrack....go figure.
    Then rich guys all over Europe (even the World perhaps?) compete against eachother in a private cup in their used F1 cars.
    ....Dont tell me happiness cant be bought!

    I agree with u. The CGT is great (or so I am told), but all is relative to what u want, and at what cost.

    04.03.2006 01:16:05

    nberry Offline
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    nberry
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    Antwort auf: Dr. Phil

    Re: Track test between a RSR and CGT

    Quote:
    Dr. Phil said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    Dr. Phil said:
    9 secnds a lap?? That is an eternity!
    But no surprise that the CGT cant follow a race spec car.
    A friend of mine had a CGT for a while, but sold it and took up Formula Renault instead, saying the the CGT was way too slow and heavy if you want real racing action.
    The Racing slicks alone makes a world of difference.



    Well I guess it only proves everything is relative. To say that the CGT is too slow is beyond my comprehension. It is mind-boggling fast and grips like it was on rails in corners. I am not sure what he expected from a street car.




    I believe his reasoning was, that the CGT is neither a racecar nor a practical/economical everyday car.
    .
    .

    .



    That I am in full agreement with.
     
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