Crown

 What matters to me and many amateur trackers is who wins at the Ring over one lap on a public day where you have to stop after one lap. From now on there is a new world order. Godzilla rules the Ring.

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AUM:

 What matters to me and many amateur trackers is who wins at the Ring over one lap on a public day where you have to stop after one lap. From now on there is a new world order. Godzilla rules the Ring.

 

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Why should that be the case? DR has done the test... With the known result.

It is probably wise to consider independant test results rather than OEM claims  

track vid

0-300kph

chasing a 997GT2

There goes AUM being the arbiter of balance and healthy objectiveness again...

Only one problem-German specs GT-Rs are not ready yet... When? God only knows...

Cars are delayed again-this time for late May/early June 2009...

KresoF1:

Only one problem-German specs GT-Rs are not ready yet... When? God only knows...

Cars are delayed again-this time for late May/early June 2009...

Maybe potential customers are wiser than expected.... Maybe Nissan just waits to release the German GTR until they found the first customer actually placing an order  (Just kidding)

www.wcoty.com/media/

NISSAN GT-R DECLARED

2009 WORLD PERFORMANCE CAR

April 9, 2009 – New York, NY - For Immediate Release

The 2009 World Performance Car award, presented by Mobil 1, went to the Nissan GT-R as announced today during the awards press conference hosted by the New York International Auto Show and Mobil 1 at the Jacob Javits Centre in Manhattan, New York, USA.

The Nissan GT-R was chosen from an initial entry list of twenty-three (23) contenders nominated by fifty-nine (59) World Car jurors from twenty-five (25) countries throughout the world. 

While the winner of the overall World Car of the Year award must excel in a broad range of attributes, there is a segment of the car-buying public for whom performance – in its broadest sense – overrides all other priorities. Vehicles appealing to that clientele may be too narrowly focused to appeal to the masses, but it is an important element in the overall automotive mix. It is for that reason that the World Performance Car award was created in 2005.

Candidates for the World Performance Car award must demonstrate a specific and overt Sports/Performance orientation. They must also satisfy the same availability criteria as for the overall World Car award and may be chosen from that list of eligible vehicles.

Additional entrants may include newly introduced variants that satisfy the same criteria, but are derived from existing rather than brand-new models. In all cases, they must have a minimum annual production rate of five-hundred (500) vehicles.

The jurors voted in January 2009 in order to establish a top ten shortlist.   The 2009 World Performance Car was chosen from those finalists as tabulated by the international accounting firm KPMG.   

WCOTY's jurors observed that the “Nissan GT-R stole the headlines in the sports car world in 2008. This GT-R – the R35 – throws even former GT-Rs into the weeds via an all-new 3.6-liter bi-turbo V-8 providing 480 horsepower and 430 pound-feet of torque. The drive of the GT-R, especially on a track, reveals an incredibly flexible all-wheel-drive chassis that lays down the rubber whenever you request it. Acceleration to 60 mph from a stop takes just 3.5 seconds, or a tick behind fellow Performance finalist the Corvette ZR1. This is a complete effort put forth by the normally conservative Nissan and the pleasure is in doing laps of a favorite circuit and feeling the sheer capabilities of the car. For $77,000 it may be the world’s best enthusiast car”.

“On behalf of the global team of designers, engineers and others behind the development of the Nissan GT-R, Nissan proudly accepts the 2009 World Performance Car of the Year award.  This recognition validates their unique vision in creating a true world supercar that can be enjoyed by anyone, anytime and anywhere.  Beyond power, beyond performance, GT-R goes beyond expectations.  Thank you, jurors, for this unexpected honor”, said Brian Carolin, Senior Vice President, Sales and Marketing, Nissan North America, Inc.

The top three contenders for the World Performance Car were the Nissan GT-R, the Corvette ZR1 and the Porsche 911 Carrera. 

 One can question many aspects of the GTR: styling, image, brand. size, weight, etc. But its performance is beyond doubt and proven in more than a dozen independent tests. 

Its fine not to like the car but denying its abilities sounds a bit like sour grapes.

 I don't deny that the GTR offers great performance. I just doubt the official lap times...

www.fastestlaps.com/index.php

You also doubt or dismiss most of these independent tests that are consistent with Nissan's NBR time.

The last test was observed by the motoring press and a Porsche representative. None of them doubted the time or  that the car was standard apart from optional wheels.

I for one have no problem with its looks..

Buyers that can afford the GTR can most probably afford a new 911 so I think that its just a case that the one who chooses the GTR is the one that just wants to be different,,not to mention the extra seating in the rear...

Another thing is , is that  the Nissan brand  just does not cut it when it comes to status,,its the snob thing but does it really matter?,,however I feel a large majority on here and elsewhere does think it matters..(for me no prob)....

Jmo..

throt

"I didn't do it"

 " The Dunlops are a little noisier than the Bridgestones RE070R, but they are worth 4-5 seconds around the 'Ring. "

The DR comparison with between the GT2 and 2008 GTR was on Bridgestones. The 7 second gap would be reduced to 2-3 seconds with the Dunlops. The suspension and other improvements for the 2009 GTR account for anther 2-3 seconds making the GT2 and GTR about even.

Again this is consistent with Nissan's claimed times.

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AUM:

 

www.fastestlaps.com/index.php

You also doubt or dismiss most of these independent tests that are consistent with Nissan's NBR time.

The last test was observed by the motoring press and a Porsche representative. None of them doubted the time or  that the car was standard apart from optional wheels.

 

 

Regarding the numbers in this table please see my post above:

P.S.: If Porsche should confirm that the time was driven with a standard car that would be very interesting. Let's wait and see. In the end we are interested in a time comparable to the existing SporAuto benchmark figures. This requires a customer spec car, comparable drivers and comparable test conditions. The only way to secure this is to have SportAuto test the GTR...

AUM:

 " The Dunlops are a little noisier than the Bridgestones RE070R, but they are worth 4-5 seconds around the 'Ring. "

The DR comparison with between the GT2 and 2008 GTR was on Bridgestones. The 7 second gap would be reduced to 2-3 seconds with the Dunlops. The suspension and other improvements for the 2009 GTR account for anther 2-3 seconds making the GT2 and GTR about even.

Again this is consistent with Nissan's claimed times.

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You basically summarize why I doubt the Nissan figures: even if this 7s gap would be reduced to 2-3s by using the Bridgestones (which has not been verified yet) the Nissan claimed lap time does not make much sense...

The OEM claimed lap time was improved by approx. 1.5s (comparing the most recent factory claim vs. the old factory claim). Thus, the GTR would still be a tad slower than the GT2, right? Now, the GT2 does the NBR in 7.33. How can the GTR be another 6s faster...

In addition, this logic ignores that DR highlighted that the delta in lap times would not be 7s but rather some seconds more if both cars were driven by a pro driver.

In summary, this logic strongly contradicts the Nissan claimed lap time 

 The DR comparison is not that quotable. The times for both cars are very slow. The track was damp. 

What we know for sure is: The evidence of all the independent tests combined is consistent with the Nissan clam.. There is no evidence that the Nissan claim is false.

But the exact NBR time is not that relevant. It will vary from day to day and driver to driver. What really matters is that the GTR is faster than all Porsches except the GT2 and CGT. And it is very close to both of these supercars.

KresoF1:

Only one problem-German specs GT-Rs are not ready yet... When? God only knows...

Cars are delayed again-this time for late May/early June 2009...

About half the European cars are for the UK and they have arrived and are being delivered. Soon they will be showing up at the Ring and the real world results will be apparent. 

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I read in the Autocar magazine today that a NBR record attempt for the Spec V is scheduled by Nissan for 18-19 April 2009.

Any up to date information?

 I guess it will depend on the weather.

www.accuweather.com/world-forecast.asp

AUM:

 The DR comparison is not that quotable. The times for both cars are very slow. The track was damp. 

What we know for sure is: The evidence of all the independent tests combined is consistent with the Nissan clam.. There is no evidence that the Nissan claim is false.

But the exact NBR time is not that relevant. It will vary from day to day and driver to driver. What really matters is that the GTR is faster than all Porsches except the GT2 and CGT. And it is very close to both of these supercars.

 

I am afraid that your point of view is a rather personal one... Nearly all sportscar drivers/owners have a different perspective 

BTW, I assume that you watched the DR video...? The video highlights the issues the GTR has. Too much understeer, too heavy, even for the NBR. The track conditions are also quite OK and - even more important - tend to give the GTR an advantage. Still, the GTR is substantially too slow, lightyears away from those nonsensical Nissan claims.

P.S.: It is downright nonsense to write that independant tests are "consistent with Nissans claim". You don't talk to idiots here...

AUM:

KresoF1:

Only one problem-German specs GT-Rs are not ready yet... When? God only knows...

Cars are delayed again-this time for late May/early June 2009...

 

About half the European cars are for the UK and they have arrived and are being delivered. Soon they will be showing up at the Ring and the real world results will be apparent. 

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I must admit that you are either die hard GT-R fan or simply strange person... Why? For you it is not strange that Nissan delayed GT-R in EU or German specs(LHD cars) four times already! That is IMO as strange as possible. Even Nissan Germany do NOT HAVE any press GT-R yet in German specs...

More development by Nissan for EU specs? If so, that is childish behaviour IMHO since GT-R will be in its internal Mk5 specs when it finally reach EU(German specs LHD car).

Sport Auto requested German specs GT-R from Nissan Germany and answer was ASAP... When actually? Godzilla only knows I guess...

KresoF1:

AUM:

KresoF1:

Only one problem-German specs GT-Rs are not ready yet... When? God only knows...

Cars are delayed again-this time for late May/early June 2009...

 

About half the European cars are for the UK and they have arrived and are being delivered. Soon they will be showing up at the Ring and the real world results will be apparent. 

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I must admit that you are either die hard GT-R fan or simply strange person... Why? For you it is not strange that Nissan delayed GT-R in EU or German specs(LHD cars) four times already! That is IMO as strange as possible. Even Nissan Germany do NOT HAVE any press GT-R yet in German specs...

More development by Nissan for EU specs? If so, that is childish behaviour IMHO since GT-R will be in its internal Mk5 specs when it finally reach EU(German specs LHD car).

Sport Auto requested German specs GT-R from Nissan Germany and answer was ASAP... When actually? Godzilla only knows I guess...

None of that has anything to with me!  

Read my post again. I am just stating facts: The UK cars are being delivered and will show up at the Ring soon.

 Top Gear track same driver

eclou:
AUM a car that can survive perhaps one lap before overheating then loses all warranty when getting the subsequent €2000 mandatory fluid service is not a "winner" by any metric

Track durability is important to me and that is one reason I would not buy a GTR. Others include, weight, size and styling.

The GTR is tremendously handicapped by its weight and 20-30 minutes of hard track use will start the car overheating. But the standard GTR is not designed for multi-lap races - that is the function of the V-spec. It will be interesting to see how the track version holds up under pressure.

AUM:

 

Targa West tarmac rally GTR beats GT2 by 15 seconds. 

 

www.caradvice.com.au/16290/gt-r-wins-targa-west/

 

Again consistent with Nissan's NBR claim.

 

I would be very interested in what kind of stuff you smoke....  Seriously, now you are posting some ralley videos... This is getting more and more ridiculous 

MKSGR:

AUM:

 The DR comparison is not that quotable. The times for both cars are very slow. The track was damp. 

What we know for sure is: The evidence of all the independent tests combined is consistent with the Nissan clam.. There is no evidence that the Nissan claim is false.

But the exact NBR time is not that relevant. It will vary from day to day and driver to driver. What really matters is that the GTR is faster than all Porsches except the GT2 and CGT. And it is very close to both of these supercars.

 

 

I am afraid that your point of view is a rather personal one... Nearly all sportscar drivers/owners have a different perspective 

BTW, I assume that you watched the DR video...? The video highlights the issues the GTR has. Too much understeer, too heavy, even for the NBR. The track conditions are also quite OK and - even more important - tend to give the GTR an advantage. Still, the GTR is substantially too slow, lightyears away from those nonsensical Nissan claims.

 

P.S.: It is downright nonsense to write that independant tests are "consistent with Nissans claim". You don't talk to idiots here...

 

*** (Post edited by Rennteam)

Reminder: No personal insults accepted on Rennteam

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Remember when someone (I forgot who it was) made a thread about that one Autobild test where the GT-R finished last? For some reason that same person didn't make a thread about the GT-R winning a comparison against the LP560 and 997 Turbo, also a test published in Autobild.

Some people only see what they want to see. One day they say that magazine tests are bogus (well, maybe not all of them only those where the GT-R wins) and that only the "real world" results count and the next day they make a thread about some magazine test where the GT-R didn't do so well and say that the "real world" results (those rallies in Australia) aren't relevant.

And I think I said this a hundred million times but I'll say it again because I still have hope that some people will understand why that DR really isn't proof of the GT-R's poor performance: that particular car was imported and owned by a person that borrowed the car for the test (so I don't think Chris Harris was driving at 10/10), it nearly lost a drag race against a 997S (maybe the ECU wasn't modified properly or something) and it wasn't on it's fastest tires and that GT2 was from Porsche GB (a press car). Also, another DR test showed that the same GT-R was marginaly slower than the GT2 around Silverstone.

Walter:

 

"Some people only see what they want to see. "

And I think I said this a hundred million times but I'll say it again because I still have hope that some people will understand why that DR really isn't proof of the GT-R's poor performance: that particular car was imported and owned by a person that borrowed the car for the test (so I don't think Chris Harris was driving at 10/10), it nearly lost a drag race against a 997S (maybe the ECU wasn't modified properly or something) and it wasn't on it's fastest tires and that GT2 was from Porsche GB (a press car). Also, another DR test showed that the same GT-R was marginaly slower than the GT2 around Silverstone.

That's quite a list of excuses as to why the GT-R was slower. And it didn't nearly lose the drag race, it lost.

It sounds like this GTR was running a bit slow at 167 mph top speed. But it still corned faster than the GT2 on various sections of the Ring. How does a big heavy Japanese car corner faster than a GT2? Must be Nissan marketing.

It is hard to imagine two sports cars that offer a different approach to
driving fast than the GT2 and the GT-R. Regarding straight-line speed,
the GT2 was able to hit over 190 mph on the main straight of the track.
The GT-R had a maximum speed of 167 mph.

In regard to handling, the Porsche demands major concentration from the
driver to avoid trouble whereas the Nissan does its job very well letting 
the driver enjoy what the car offers. Because of its all-wheel drive and
electronic stability control, the Nissan was able to carry more speed
at various areas of the track. For example, attacking an off-camber
right-hand turn called Eschbach – a turn that should have favored the
the lighter liberally rubbered Porsche, the GT-R was effortless in doing
74 mph through the turn. The GT2 could only manage 70 mph.

www.examiner.com/x-244-Automotive-Examiner~y2009m3d30-Thems-fighting-words-2009-Porsche-GT2-vs-Nissan-GTR-at-the-Ring

JoeRockhead:

Walter:

 

"Some people only see what they want to see. "

And I think I said this a hundred million times but I'll say it again because I still have hope that some people will understand why that DR really isn't proof of the GT-R's poor performance: that particular car was imported and owned by a person that borrowed the car for the test (so I don't think Chris Harris was driving at 10/10), it nearly lost a drag race against a 997S (maybe the ECU wasn't modified properly or something) and it wasn't on it's fastest tires and that GT2 was from Porsche GB (a press car). Also, another DR test showed that the same GT-R was marginaly slower than the GT2 around Silverstone.

 

That's quite a list of excuses as to why the GT-R was slower. And it didn't nearly lose the drag race, it lost.

That's correct. It had a faster 1/4-mile time but somehow it lost the drag race. And the white GT-R tested on the Nurburgring wasn't the car that was tested in Silverstone. It was in the comparison with the Audi, Aston and Porsche on the road but it wasn't tested in Silverstone. Sorry for that.

I could show you some lap times where I wouldn't need any excuses. But the list isn't finished. I could also add that the GT-R has less power and more weight and rear seats and runflats and costs about 100'000 euros less. I think my list to explain the 7 seconds difference is complete now.