Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: Porsche profits - Page1

Jan 23, 2009 11:40:47 AM

easy_rider911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 22190, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 8, 2004

Porsche profits

There was a very good 30 minute documentary programme on BBC2 last night about how Porsche made billions of Euros through secretly buying options to buy VW shares. It was made by the Money Programme and was called 'Fast Bucks: how Porsche made billions'.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7843262.stm

If you can watch it on iPlayer or from some other website, it's worth a look.

It basically explained how PAG outsmarted the investor community (especially the hedge funds) that engaged in short-selling VW shares. There is currently a BaFin investigation (the German financial services regulator) in progress as to whether this action in some way manipulated the market in VW shares.

It was interesting to learn how PAG made about Euros 1 billion in profits from manufacturing cars but made around Euros 6 billion from its involvement on the financial markets. Some commentators on the programme were saying that PAG now seems to be more like a hedge fund that happens to make cars!

Interesting stuff.

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Jan 23, 2009 1:13:06 PM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21152, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: easy_rider911

Re: Porsche profits

Interesting, thanks for the heads up, will watch it on the BBC iPlayer Smiley

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Jan 23, 2009 1:43:59 PM

reginos: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus; Posts: 12130, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 20, 2005; Reply to: easy_rider911

Re: Porsche profits

If this programme was on BBC there must have been some sort of typical british jealousy as always against the germans that surfaces from time to time even through sporting events or entertaiment! "Don't mention the war!" as Basil Fawlty used to say Smiley

Porsche didn't behave like a hedge fund because there is a strategic reason for purchasing shares in another automobile manufacturer like VW. Their shareholiding is there to stay and it has nothing to do with speculation. Now, that they made some money out of this strategic move, this is just an extra bonus.

Second, Porsche bulit up a share of some 74% in VW through holdings and options that the wise short-sellers in the hedge funds didn't know about. In Germany, contrary to elsewhere, the law doesn't force you to disclose this type of transactions and holdings. Germany is thinking of closing this loophole in their law.

What is being investigated, as I understand it, is whether any insider trading took place, rather than the secrecy/lack of disclosure on behalf of PAG that caused the demise of several funds.

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Jan 23, 2009 3:00:12 PM

easy_rider911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 22190, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 8, 2004; Reply to: reginos

Re: Porsche profits

reginos:

If this programme was on BBC there must have been some sort of typical british jealousy as always against the germans that surfaces from time to time

No, there wasn't even a hint of it. The Money Programme is a very well respected programme on the BBC. I think baseless conjecture alleging "some sort of typical British jealousy as always against Germans" is really beneath you and not representative of your usually valuable contributions here.

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997S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection: I love this car!!!

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Jan 23, 2009 3:56:36 PM

reginos: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus; Posts: 12130, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 20, 2005; Reply to: easy_rider911

Re: Porsche profits

easy_rider911:
No, there wasn't even a hint of it. The Money Programme is a very well respected programme on the BBC. I think baseless conjecture alleging "some sort of typical British jealousy as always against Germans" is really beneath you and not representative of your usually valuable contributions here.

I cannot think how PAG could be mentioned in the same context as a hedge fund, by expert financial journalists. I've also read this analogy in the english language press and financial internet sites

Automobile companies have been investing/buying into each other since the beginning of the motor car everywhere in the world. That PAG were clever enough to buy into an undervalued (at the time) industrial jewel, this doesn't make them a speculative fund. IMO it is solid strategic thinking.

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Jan 23, 2009 6:05:51 PM

John H: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Cheshire, UK , United Kingdom; Posts: 7682, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 20, 2005; Reply to: reginos

Re: Porsche profits

Your general comments on the investments are fair and valid. Smiley

However, I agree with Easy regarding your...Quote..." there must have been some sort of typical british jealousy as always against the germans that surfaces from time to time even through sporting events or entertainment!"

Would you care to enlarge upon your remark relating to British jealousy against the Germans through sport and entertainment? Smiley

Sure, we lose a few games of soccer (usually in penalty shoot-outs) and we win a few.

I don't recollect a German cricket team at international level?

Bernhard Langer was/is a brilliant golfer and Ryder Cup captain much admired in the UK. I can't think of many more to compete with those from England, Wales, Scotland and N. Ireland?

Germany isn't highly regarded in Rugby Union or Rugby League.

When was the last time we had a World Boxing Champion who was German.

Without going through all sports, suffice to say that the Brits finished ahead of Germany in every Olympic medal table.

In motor sport, Germans, especially M.S. have been outstanding and, although M.S. didn't use one, their engines reflect their superior car manufacturing. But we aren't jealous....we go out and we buy our Porsches, BMW's, Merc's and Audi's because we recognise them for what they are - the best!

In entertainment, which is my professional area, it was my privilege, back in the eighties, to promote two major German bands...."Bony M" and "The James Last Orchestra"

They were a pleasure to work with, especially Hans, who is one of the most generous men I've ever met. There was not a hint of 'jealousy.' Brits came out in their hundreds of thousands to appreciate and applaud their talent. Since then there have been many accomplished performers from Germany, but none to compare with these on the world stage.

I really, really don't get this 'typical British jealousy' bit..... you're going to have to substantiate your remark or otherwise retract it.... thank you.

--
"Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."

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Jan 23, 2009 6:56:05 PM

reginos: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus; Posts: 12130, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 20, 2005; Reply to: John H

Re: Porsche profits

Hi John

Thanks for taking my point on the VW investment. I wonder why many expert financial journalists promote the myth of PAG being more of a hedge fund though, whereas reasonable people like you can see that this not the case.

As regards my comments on the british rivalry/jealousy ( to the extent of prejudice sometimes) against germany, this is my conclusion after living for many years in the UK and still following regularly the british popular media. I am not saying that every educated person in britain thinks likewise but this is predominant idea in popular culture that the popular press has been promoting.

Think of national furor the tabloid press stirs up before a england-germany soccer match and how hostile were the british media against the german F1 phenomenon MS after he beat Hill to the title.

Also, in comedy, both stand-up and on TV and in drama germans are too stereotyped as nazis of some sort. And to take this point further look at Max Mosley's secret sex show in London, with its german/nazi/concentration camp connotations. Nowhere else in the world people would mix sex with this german WW2 obsession, except in britain. And don't tell me it was because Max's father was a fascist politician.

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Jan 24, 2009 11:43:06 AM

Porker: Rennteam VIP; Loc: SZ , Switzerland; Posts: 7062, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 17, 2005; Reply to: reginos

Re: Porsche profits

Does anyone have a direct link where I can watch the programme? I'd love to see it but I'm not familiar with iBBC and stuff like that...

Thanks

Edit: BBC iPlayer says it's only accessible for UK-viewers Smiley

Any other source?
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Jan 24, 2009 2:31:06 PM

easy_rider911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 22190, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 8, 2004; Reply to: Porker

Re: Porsche profits

http://toptorrents.org/torrents/290704/Money.Programme.Fast.Bucks.How.Porsche.Made.Billions.WS.PDTV.XviD-REMAX/details.html

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Jan 24, 2009 2:41:21 PM

John H: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Cheshire, UK , United Kingdom; Posts: 7682, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 20, 2005; Reply to: easy_rider911

Re: Porsche profits

Easy - which client do you usually use? Smiley

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Jan 24, 2009 6:27:59 PM

easy_rider911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 22190, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 8, 2004; Reply to: John H

Re: Porsche profits

I usually watch BBC stuff on iPlayer. I haven't used Bit Torrent or other services. ;)
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Jan 24, 2009 7:13:52 PM

Porker: Rennteam VIP; Loc: SZ , Switzerland; Posts: 7062, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 17, 2005; Reply to: easy_rider911

Re: Porsche profits

easy_rider911:

http://toptorrents.org/torrents/290704/Money.Programme.Fast.Bucks.How.Porsche.Made.Billions.WS.PDTV.XviD-REMAX/details.html

--
997S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection: I love this car!!!

Thanks easy, I didn't think there'd be a torrent available! Smiley

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Jan 25, 2009 12:05:31 PM

John H: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Cheshire, UK , United Kingdom; Posts: 7682, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 20, 2005; Reply to: reginos

Re: Porsche profits

reginos:

Hi John

Thanks for taking my point on the VW investment. I wonder why many expert financial journalists promote the myth of PAG being more of a hedge fund though, whereas reasonable people like you can see that this not the case.

As regards my comments on the british rivalry/jealousy ( to the extent of prejudice sometimes) against germany, this is my conclusion after living for many years in the UK and still following regularly the british popular media. I am not saying that every educated person in britain thinks likewise but this is predominant idea in popular culture that the popular press has been promoting.

Think of national furor the tabloid press stirs up before a england-germany soccer match and how hostile were the british media against the german F1 phenomenon MS after he beat Hill to the title.

Also, in comedy, both stand-up and on TV and in drama germans are too stereotyped as nazis of some sort. And to take this point further look at Max Mosley's secret sex show in London, with its german/nazi/concentration camp connotations. Nowhere else in the world people would mix sex with this german WW2 obsession, except in britain. And don't tell me it was because Max's father was a fascist politician.

Reginos - Your explanation skirts your original contentions.

The outrage over the M.S./Hill incident was justified because M.S. cheated. If you remember he deliberately took both of them out of the race knowing that, by doing so, he would become world champion!

Comedy is just that...comedy... as illustrated in your Basil Fawlty example.

WW2 drama productions are factually based and as such are required to portray a nazi influence!

Your comment about Mosley's activities are laughable. One high profile pervert is supposed to represent British attitudes in general...?? Smiley

I don't know where you lived in the UK, but you've gone away with a very warped sense of how the vast majority of us think and behave. Smiley

--
"Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."

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