Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: Turbo is costing me $375,000 on road!! - Page1

Jan 23, 2006 6:05:31 AM

randy: Junior; Loc: India , India; Posts: 70, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 6, 2005

Turbo is costing me $375,000 on road!!

These are my specs- and my on road price is $375,000 with all the damn duties/taxes and insurance.

997421 911 Turbo
G1 Guards Red
AT Black Leather

Metallic Paint
P74 Bi- Xenon Lighting System
P12 Automatic Dimming Interior & Exterior mirrors with integrated rain sensor
482 Tire pressure monitoring system (TPMS)
573 Automatic climate control
534/535 Anti-theft system incl. radar- passenger-compartment monitoring
P15 Electrically adjustable seats
435 3-spoke sports steering wheel in leather
670 DVD navigation for PCM
680 Bose Sound system

567 Windshield with grey top tint
249 Tiptronic S, 5- Speed Automatic Transmission
635 Park Assist ( Parking Aid Rear)
650 Electric sun roof
640 Sports Chrono Package Plus
P77 Sports Seats
XSH/XSX/XSY Colored seat belt
431 3-spoke multi-function steering wheel in smooth leather
XSC Porsche crest embossed in head restraints
810 Floor mats with leather edging
666 Telephone module for PCM
668 Hand set for telephone module
692 CD Changer
150 Catalytic converter De- activated

For $30,000 more I can have a Lamborghini Gallardo!

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Jan 23, 2006 6:35:17 AM

silverrules: Senior; Loc: N. Calif , United States; Posts: 784, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 5, 2005; Reply to: randy

Re: Turbo is costing me $375,000 on road!!

You definitely got the right color

but no adaptive sport seat?

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Jan 23, 2006 6:39:34 AM

andrea: Rennteam Master; Loc: Italy, Pordenone , Italy; Posts: 3569, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 24, 2003; Reply to: silverrules

Re: Turbo is costing me $375,000 on road!!

150 Catalytic converter De- activated

What is it?????

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Jan 23, 2006 6:50:11 AM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59590, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: andrea

Re: Turbo is costing me $375,000 on road!!

Quote:
andrea said:
150 Catalytic converter De- activated

What is it?????

Exactly what it says, catalytic converter de-activated. Meaning: there isn't actually one. Reason? Simple: he lives in India where unleaded fuel is pretty unusual, especially outside the big cities.
During my mission to Eastern Europe, my car had also no catalytic converter since there was no unleaded fuel available at all at that time.

This option is NOT available for Italy or Germany, it would be highly illegal over here.

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Jan 23, 2006 6:53:53 AM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59590, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: randy

Re: Turbo is costing me $375,000 on road!!

Quote:
randy said:
These are my specs- and my on road price is $375,000 with all the damn duties/taxes and insurance.

997421 911 Turbo
G1 Guards Red
AT Black Leather

Metallic Paint
P74 Bi- Xenon Lighting System
P12 Automatic Dimming Interior & Exterior mirrors with integrated rain sensor
482 Tire pressure monitoring system (TPMS)
573 Automatic climate control
534/535 Anti-theft system incl. radar- passenger-compartment monitoring
P15 Electrically adjustable seats
435 3-spoke sports steering wheel in leather
670 DVD navigation for PCM
680 Bose Sound system

567 Windshield with grey top tint
249 Tiptronic S, 5- Speed Automatic Transmission
635 Park Assist ( Parking Aid Rear)
650 Electric sun roof
640 Sports Chrono Package Plus
P77 Sports Seats
XSH/XSX/XSY Colored seat belt
431 3-spoke multi-function steering wheel in smooth leather
XSC Porsche crest embossed in head restraints
810 Floor mats with leather edging
666 Telephone module for PCM
668 Hand set for telephone module
692 CD Changer
150 Catalytic converter De- activated

For $30,000 more I can have a Lamborghini Gallardo!

375000 USD? Ouch. Over here in Germany, the 997 Turbo is supposed to be around 145000 Euro incl. 16% VAT with the same options (~ 174000 USD). A Gallardo would cost almost the same.

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Jan 23, 2006 7:19:08 AM

randy: Junior; Loc: India , India; Posts: 70, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 6, 2005; Reply to: RC

Re: Turbo is costing me $375,000 on road!!

Hey RC we actually have only un-leaded fuel here in India...I use 98 RON....but I just asked the Porsche dealer what that option was and he had no clue?? I was under the assumption it could be some sort of bypass to allow more power..silly me!

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Jan 23, 2006 7:24:31 AM

randy: Junior; Loc: India , India; Posts: 70, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 6, 2005; Reply to: silverrules

Re: Turbo is costing me $375,000 on road!!

Quote:
silverrules said:
You definitely got the right color but no adaptive sport seat?

As you can see the cost is pretty high without a lot of options I would have wanted...just tried to keep it to the min.

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Jan 23, 2006 7:29:20 AM

SoCal Alan: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Orange County , United States; Posts: 7268, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 6, 2004; Reply to: randy

Re: Turbo is costing me $375,000 on road!!

Randy, any chance the dealer explained to you exactly what "640 Sports Chrono Package Plus" contains? I know we were speculating it was some kind of turbo overboost feature. Any details about this?

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Jan 23, 2006 7:56:15 AM

randy: Junior; Loc: India , India; Posts: 70, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 6, 2005; Reply to: SoCal Alan

Re: Turbo is costing me $375,000 on road!!

They dont seem to have the details yet of the different functions on the sport chrono plus...or any of the other equipment...just the bare list. Will try and get more info soon.

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Jan 23, 2006 8:01:56 AM

dhayek: Rennteam Master; Loc: Beirut , Lebanon; Posts: 3839, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 7, 2004; Reply to: SoCal Alan

Re: Turbo is costing me $375,000 on road!!

Quote:
SoCal Alan said:
Randy, any chance the dealer explained to you exactly what "640 Sports Chrono Package Plus" contains? I know we were speculating it was some kind of turbo overboost feature. Any details about this?

as far as i have seen , there is no overboost function,it is just the standard scp+

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Jan 23, 2006 10:58:16 AM

Avantgarde: Senior; Loc: City State; Posts: 708, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 6, 2005; Reply to: RC

Re: Turbo is costing me $375,000 on road!!

Quote:
RC said:
Exactly what it says, catalytic converter de-activated. Meaning: there isn't actually one. Reason? Simple: he lives in India where unleaded fuel is pretty unusual, especially outside the big cities.
During my mission to Eastern Europe, my car had also no catalytic converter since there was no unleaded fuel available at all at that time.

This option is NOT available for Italy or Germany, it would be highly illegal over here.

Would the car be any faster and/or louder without the Cat?

What does it have in place instead? Some form glass pack muffler?

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Jan 23, 2006 11:14:46 AM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59590, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: Avantgarde

Re: Turbo is costing me $375,000 on road!!

Quote:
Avantgarde said:
Would the car be any faster and/or louder without the Cat?
What does it have in place instead? Some form glass pack muffler?

As far as I heard, the catalytic converter is missing completely. It can be retrofitted but you also need a new motronic software. Forget about more power, the motronic software is different too.

It may be a little bit louder though, can't say much about it.

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Jan 23, 2006 12:57:28 PM

BD 997: Veteran; Loc: Boston, MA USA; Posts: 833, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 16, 2005; Reply to: RC

Re: Turbo is costing me $375,000 on road!!

in US any price idea yet RC? Im thinking 130k (6% above 996tt)....

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Jan 23, 2006 1:37:03 PM

Boyko23: Veteran; Loc: Sofia , Bulgaria; Posts: 1116, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 27, 2004; Reply to: BD 997

Re: Turbo is costing me $375,000 on road!!

Quote:
As far as I heard, the catalytic converter is missing completely. It can be retrofitted but you also need a new motronic software. Forget about more power, the motronic software is different too.

The fact itself, that there is no cat convertor, means that you have some horses more... And this is about every car I think...

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Jan 23, 2006 1:46:04 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12586, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: randy

Re: Turbo is costing me $375,000 on road!!

Quote:
randy said:
Hey RC we actually have only un-leaded fuel here in India...I use 98 RON....but I just asked the Porsche dealer what that option was and he had no clue?? I was under the assumption it could be some sort of bypass to allow more power..silly me!

I think most turbocharged cars have better throttle response and less turbo lag when you remove the catalytic converter. I think you made the right choice

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Jan 23, 2006 2:01:02 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59590, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: randy

Re: Turbo is costing me $375,000 on road!!

Quote:
randy said:
Hey RC we actually have only un-leaded fuel here in India...I use 98 RON....but I just asked the Porsche dealer what that option was and he had no clue?? I was under the assumption it could be some sort of bypass to allow more power..silly me!

I doubt that you'll get more power. Since Porsche develops the cars for mostly unleaded fuel markets, the non-catalytic converter variant is actually a modifed version and not the FULL power version without cats everybody seems to hope for. These times have gone...

But are you sure you're getting unleaded fuel everywhere in India? A friend who visited Bombay last year said that he didn't see any unleaded fuel over there??? But maybe because all fuel stations have unleaded fuel only? I don't have a clue.

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Jan 23, 2006 2:42:31 PM

andrea: Rennteam Master; Loc: Italy, Pordenone , Italy; Posts: 3569, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 24, 2003; Reply to: RC

Re: Turbo is costing me $375,000 on road!!

thanks Christian!

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Jan 23, 2006 4:34:52 PM

sdy284: Expert; Loc: Wisconsin, USA; Posts: 1348, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 7, 2005; Reply to: RC

Re: Turbo is costing me $375,000 on road!!

Quote:
RC said:
Quote:
randy said:
Hey RC we actually have only un-leaded fuel here in India...I use 98 RON....but I just asked the Porsche dealer what that option was and he had no clue?? I was under the assumption it could be some sort of bypass to allow more power..silly me!

I doubt that you'll get more power. Since Porsche develops the cars for mostly unleaded fuel markets, the non-catalytic converter variant is actually a modifed version and not the FULL power version without cats everybody seems to hope for. These times have gone...

But are you sure you're getting unleaded fuel everywhere in India? A friend who visited Bombay last year said that he didn't see any unleaded fuel over there??? But maybe because all fuel stations have unleaded fuel only? I don't have a clue.

thats so strange, because on every other car, if you remove the cats, you remove some restriction, which "gains" you more power...unless porsche accounts for this by tweaking the software

its definately a unique option thats for sure

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Jan 23, 2006 4:48:19 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12586, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: sdy284

Re: Turbo is costing me $375,000 on road!!

Quote:
sdy284 said:
Quote:
RC said:
Quote:
randy said:
Hey RC we actually have only un-leaded fuel here in India...I use 98 RON....but I just asked the Porsche dealer what that option was and he had no clue?? I was under the assumption it could be some sort of bypass to allow more power..silly me!

I doubt that you'll get more power. Since Porsche develops the cars for mostly unleaded fuel markets, the non-catalytic converter variant is actually a modifed version and not the FULL power version without cats everybody seems to hope for. These times have gone...

But are you sure you're getting unleaded fuel everywhere in India? A friend who visited Bombay last year said that he didn't see any unleaded fuel over there??? But maybe because all fuel stations have unleaded fuel only? I don't have a clue.

thats so strange, because on every other car, if you remove the cats, you remove some restriction, which "gains" you more power...unless porsche accounts for this by tweaking the software

its definately a unique option thats for sure

I think the software that controls the boost level electronically will most likely govern the peak power to about the same level as the cat version. However, whenever you remove a restriction from the area between the exhaust and turbocharger, you will have better throttle response and build boost more quickly. VTG and no cat should make boost VERY fast! Should make the exhaust sound a bit meaner too

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Jan 23, 2006 8:16:46 PM

Spock: Newbie; Loc: Thailand , Thailand; Posts: 40, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 7, 2005; Reply to: Grant

Re: Turbo is costing me $375,000 on road!!

That's cheap when you compare to ones in Thailand which is about 500,000 USD without any option

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Jan 23, 2006 11:25:01 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59590, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: Grant

Re: Turbo is costing me $375,000 on road!!

Quote:
Grant said:
I think the software that controls the boost level electronically will most likely govern the peak power to about the same level as the cat version. However, whenever you remove a restriction from the area between the exhaust and turbocharger, you will have better throttle response and build boost more quickly. VTG and no cat should make boost VERY fast! Should make the exhaust sound a bit meaner too

I can't say much about the sound but I would be careful with your assumption. This may be valid for cars which have got a catalytic converter attached AFTER the development of the engine but I doubt this is valid for an engine which has been actually developped with cats. Removing the cats is actually THE tricky thing since it requires a new software and maybe other changes too (otherwise the OBD system would go nuts I suppose). I'm no expert but I don't think that you gain any power with the cats removal on the 997 Turbo since you get a different software and different setup too.

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Jan 24, 2006 1:51:43 AM

Avantgarde: Senior; Loc: City State; Posts: 708, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 6, 2005; Reply to: Spock

Re: Turbo is costing me $375,000 on road!!

It'll cost close to USD400k in Singapore.

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Jan 24, 2006 1:57:41 AM

bstew: Expert; Loc: NC, USA; Posts: 1797, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 11, 2005; Reply to: randy

Re: Turbo is costing me $375,000 on road!!

I love porsche but for 30K more a Lambo?

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Jan 24, 2006 2:26:05 AM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59590, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: bstew

Re: Turbo is costing me $375,000 on road!!

Quote:
bstew said:
I love porsche but for 30K more a Lambo?

F430, 997 Turbo and Gallardo cost practically the same over here in Germany.

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Jan 24, 2006 11:30:52 AM

jandreas: Junior; Loc: STX , U.S. Virgin Islands; Posts: 75, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 6, 2002; Reply to: RC

Re: Turbo is costing me $375,000 on road!!

Quote:
RC said:
I doubt that you'll get more power. Since Porsche develops the cars for mostly unleaded fuel markets, the non-catalytic converter variant is actually a modifed version and not the FULL power version without cats everybody seems to hope for. These times have gone...

Porsche develops the ECU for M150(No cat), EU3/EU4, JAP/AUS and LEV(USA) emission standards. And we know they do road-testing in the various countries (i.e. the under-the-hood VTG turbocharger photos from death-valley that I posted a month or so ago) so there shouldn't be any reason for them not to have full power?

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Jan 24, 2006 11:37:34 AM

LB: Senior; Loc: Spain; Posts: 622, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 2, 2005; Reply to: jandreas

Re: Turbo is costing me $375,000 on road!!

Different countries different taxes.......
A friend of mine brought over a Lambo Diablo back in the mid 90's to Morocco at a cost of $1M at the time.....

I believe Asia and Africa have the highest tax systems in place for automobiles

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Jan 25, 2006 3:59:32 PM

vinnie: Veteran; Loc: Australia , Australia; Posts: 1005, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 25, 2005; Reply to: LB

Re: Turbo is costing me $375,000 on road!!

Quote:
LB said:
Different countries different taxes.......
A friend of mine brought over a Lambo Diablo back in the mid 90's to Morocco at a cost of $1M at the time.....

I believe Asia and Africa have the highest tax systems in place for automobiles

Don't forget Australia.

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Turbo is costing me $375,000 on road!!

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