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Jan 18, 2006 9:57:29 AM

AshD: Junior; Loc:; Posts: 53, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 18, 2004

-20mm - those of you who have it - especially from the UK

All,

I know there have been a number of posts on the topic, but i'm just about to confirm my order spec, and i'm still obsessing about this.

I had a drive in a PASM version, and in normal mode it felt fine, but sport mode felt strange to me. Yes it was stiff, which was fine, but it didn't feel quite 'right'.

I like the idea of the -20mm as it's 'normal' dampers, coils, etc., but will it be too stiff for everyday use in the UK. Can't get to drive one, so want views from those of you who have it, especially in the UK. Will i regret this choice, badly?

My previous daily drive was a V8 Esprit, fairly stiff as you can imagine, but absolutely fine for me.

Thanks, Ash

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Jan 18, 2006 11:35:09 AM

ACA: Junior; Loc: UK; Posts: 52, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 15, 2005; Reply to: AshD

Re: -20mm - those of you who have it - especially from the UK

Ash
I had the same dilema about -20mm on my order. I went for it and I have to say I am glad i did and have no regret for doing so. It is stiff but you get used to it. You do have to take care on poor road surfaces eg bumpy country lanes, but on your average A & B road it's fine unless you hit a pot hole or course in which case it will be harsh. The -20mm does come into its element when you are pushing hard, it keeps the car very tight and you always feel in total control. I have driven the PASM version and I do feel that the -20mm is the better of the two. A -20mm car was reviewed by top gear on the isle of man shoot out with the V8AM and BMW M6 and they did not make any reference to it being overly stiff.
I dont think you will regret it unless you prefer comfort over feedback overload.
best of luck

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Jan 18, 2006 11:53:29 AM

Gnil: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: VD, Switzerland , Switzerland; Posts: 14174, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 11, 2005; Reply to: ACA

Re: -20mm - those of you who have it - especially from the UK

I agree completly with ACA....
The sport mode on PASM feels disconected from the road. You do not get this king of feeling with the-20mm. You feel very connected to the road. It is stiff.... once and a while I wonder if I would of not apreciated the comfort of PASM in normal, but 98% of the time I am very happy.

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Jan 18, 2006 12:33:40 PM

eddie: Junior; Loc: uk; Posts: 132, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 5, 2005; Reply to: Gnil

Re: -20mm - those of you who have it - especially from the UK

Ash

Thought I would let you know that I too was very unhappy with the way PASM felt and on the basis of driving a base 997 and the S, back to back, went for the base car and have no regrets at all. I wanted to test drive a car with -20mm suspension, but none were available.

However a lot of people on this site have the S and are very pleased, so i think at the end of the day you should go for what you can drive and be sure you're happy with rather than risk getting it wrong.

Just my two pence.

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Jan 18, 2006 12:51:51 PM

JJBlade: Co-Pilot; Loc: UK; Posts: 190, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 11, 2005; Reply to: eddie

Re: -20mm - those of you who have it - especially from the U

I drove a PASM car at Mira this morning and it does not handle or feel half as good as my -20mm. The car feels aloof and hates direction change whearas in a -20mm you can feel the cars responses so much better.

I was chatting to the instructor and he said if he had a 997 he would definitely only order it with -20mm

As for -20mm being harsh it will feel like a limo compared to your esprit and I have never had a problem with the ride in 10,000 miles or wished it could be softer.

I would never order a PASM car while the -20mm option exists.

Oh and when the two cars were parked side by side this morning the PASM car looked like a 4x4 off roader on stilts.

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Jan 18, 2006 4:59:14 PM

AshD: Junior; Loc:; Posts: 53, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 18, 2004; Reply to: JJBlade

Re: -20mm - those of you who have it - especially from the U

Guys,

Thanks for the feedback and views - my obsessing is over -20mm is the decision. Pleased that even though i only was in the 997S with PASM for a short time, that i'm not the only one that thinks it doesn't feel quite 'right' in sport mode.

One of the best things about the v8 esprit was the feedback, so to hear the -20mm improves that considerably is great.

Thanks again. Ash

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Jan 18, 2006 5:24:57 PM

moto: Senior; Loc: London, UK; Posts: 608, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 8, 2005; Reply to: AshD

Re: -20mm - those of you who have it - especially from the U

AshD, so what's your final spec going to be!?

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Jan 18, 2006 5:44:03 PM

AS4s: Pilot; Loc: New York , United States; Posts: 328, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 10, 2004; Reply to: AshD

Re: -20mm - those of you who have it - especially from the U

sorry to ask what's probably a pretty basic questions, but are you guys saying that the ideal setting is -20mm with PASM off?

Also, a couple of people said that the -20mm would be an ideal setting for the C4S, any comments?

Thanks.

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Jan 18, 2006 5:50:01 PM

JJBlade: Co-Pilot; Loc: UK; Posts: 190, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 11, 2005; Reply to: AS4s

Re: -20mm - those of you who have it - especially from the U

PASM is a completely different adaptive damping system compared to the -20mm. It is one or the other.

I think you might be getting PASM and PSM confused.

As for -20mm on a C4S I can't see any reason why it would not be preferential.

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Jan 18, 2006 5:56:32 PM

AshD: Junior; Loc:; Posts: 53, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 18, 2004; Reply to: moto

Re: -20mm - those of you who have it - especially from the U

Moto,

Spec is:

- Seal Grey
- Black Leather
- 20mm w/ LSD (as above)
- Sports Seats
- Heated Seats
- Sports Exhaust
- Bose
- Sport Chrono
- Black Dials
- Park Assist

Ash

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Jan 18, 2006 6:01:59 PM

AS4s: Pilot; Loc: New York , United States; Posts: 328, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 10, 2004; Reply to: JJBlade

Re: -20mm - those of you who have it - especially from the U

Quote:
JJBlade said:
PASM is a completely different adaptive damping system compared to the -20mm. It is one or the other.

I think you might be getting PASM and PSM confused.

As for -20mm on a C4S I can't see any reason why it would not be preferential.

Thanks JJBlade, no I am not getting confused with PSM, what I was wondering is for instance a CS comes with PASM, so the question was if you get -20mm you don't get PASM, correct?

Thanks again.

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Jan 18, 2006 6:05:00 PM

KresoF1: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Croatia , Croatia; Posts: 7856, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 3, 2005; Reply to: AS4s

Re: -20mm - those of you who have it - especially from the U

-20mm/LSD is a non-cost option for 997S coupe and for base 997 coupe PASM and -20mm/LSD cost the same(option).
-20mm/LSD option is NOT available for 997/997S cabrio versions.

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Jan 18, 2006 6:31:31 PM

JJBlade: Co-Pilot; Loc: UK; Posts: 190, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 11, 2005; Reply to: AS4s

Re: -20mm - those of you who have it - especially from the U

Quote:
senra said:
Quote:
JJBlade said:
PASM is a completely different adaptive damping system compared to the -20mm. It is one or the other.

I think you might be getting PASM and PSM confused.

As for -20mm on a C4S I can't see any reason why it would not be preferential.

Thanks JJBlade, no I am not getting confused with PSM, what I was wondering is for instance a CS comes with PASM, so the question was if you get -20mm you don't get PASM, correct?
Thanks again.

Correct. -20mm is conventional springs and dampers

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Jan 18, 2006 6:49:11 PM

moto: Senior; Loc: London, UK; Posts: 608, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 8, 2005; Reply to: AshD

Re: -20mm - those of you who have it - especially from the U

Quote:
AshD said:
Moto,

Spec is:

- Seal Grey
- Black Leather
- 20mm w/ LSD (as above)
- Sports Seats
- Heated Seats
- Sports Exhaust
- Bose
- Sport Chrono
- Black Dials
- Park Assist

Ash

SWEET

Did you consider Slate Grey? It's my personal fav.

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Jan 18, 2006 7:01:06 PM

AshD: Junior; Loc:; Posts: 53, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 18, 2004; Reply to: moto

Re: -20mm - those of you who have it - especially from the U

Quote:
moto said:
Quote:
AshD said:
Moto,

Spec is:

- Seal Grey
- Black Leather
- 20mm w/ LSD (as above)
- Sports Seats
- Heated Seats
- Sports Exhaust
- Bose
- Sport Chrono
- Black Dials
- Park Assist

Ash

SWEET
Did you consider Slate Grey? It's my personal fav.

Moto,

My main consideration was Guards Red, i think it looks great on 997 compared to 997 (and my Esprit was yellow), but dealer convinced me it was a bad idea!

Ash

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Jan 18, 2006 7:24:37 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12586, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: AshD

Re: -20mm - those of you who have it - especially from the U

Also, keep in mind that a limited slip differential is part of the -20mm package and NOT available any other way. Unfortunately, the -20mm package is not available in the US

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Jan 18, 2006 10:15:24 PM

moto: Senior; Loc: London, UK; Posts: 608, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 8, 2005; Reply to: Grant

Re: -20mm - those of you who have it - especially from the U

i guess OPC's would recommend one to go for a safe colour so that it's easier for them to sell it should the time come.
Seal's cool and am sure you'll love it! Don't forget to take some pics and post it here mate!
(in the meantime, i'm waiting around hoping there's a used slate grey one somewhere....(refusing to buy new)!!)

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Jan 18, 2006 10:56:12 PM

twin turbo: Junior; Loc: london uk; Posts: 70, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 29, 2005; Reply to: moto

Re: -20mm - those of you who have it - especially from the U

so does a 977, 997s with pasm have a lsd or not?

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Jan 18, 2006 11:02:57 PM

twin turbo: Junior; Loc: london uk; Posts: 70, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 29, 2005; Reply to: twin turbo

Re: -20mm - those of you who have it - especially from the U

the dealers are responsible for all the dull colours out there then?

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Jan 18, 2006 11:03:50 PM

JJBlade: Co-Pilot; Loc: UK; Posts: 190, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 11, 2005; Reply to: twin turbo

Re: -20mm - those of you who have it - especially from the U

No LSD on any PASM car so it will spin one wheel when it gets slippy, in an expensive cloud of smoke.

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Jan 18, 2006 11:08:58 PM

twin turbo: Junior; Loc: london uk; Posts: 70, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 29, 2005; Reply to: JJBlade

Re: -20mm - those of you who have it - especially from the U

thanks jjBlade ,dealer told me all 997 have lsd. what do they know? so what is all the fuss about cayman not having lsd then? ,

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Jan 18, 2006 11:11:25 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12586, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: twin turbo

Re: -20mm - those of you who have it - especially from the U

Quote:
twin turbo said:
thanks jjBlade ,dealer told me all 997 have lsd. what do they know? so what is all the fuss about cayman not having lsd then? ,

Mid-engined Cayman intrinsically has less traction than the rear-engined 997, so it needs it more...

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Jan 18, 2006 11:15:48 PM

Jim_in_Iowa: Pilot; Loc: US; Posts: 336, Gallery; Registered on: May 18, 2005; Reply to: AshD

Re: -20mm - those of you who have it - especially from the UK

I *wish* we had it as an option over here, along with the LSD in the 997 and 987 families.

One other advantage, the -20mm suspension will age better. The most that would need to be done is to replace shocks (dampers).

I tend to keep my cars for a long time, so this may not be a consideration for you. What's going to happen when the wiring harness, sensors, microswitches, and shocks get old (as in out of warranty) in a PASM car??? What if it develops an intermittent error? What are the replacement costs for the PASM components, the shocks for example? The -20mm will have aftermarket shocks available from the usual suppliers. Will PASM parts and service be OPC-only?

Jim

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Jan 18, 2006 11:21:14 PM

JJBlade: Co-Pilot; Loc: UK; Posts: 190, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 11, 2005; Reply to: twin turbo

Re: -20mm - those of you who have it - especially from the U

Quote:
twin turbo said:
thanks jjBlade ,dealer told me all 997 have lsd. what do they know? so what is all the fuss about cayman not having lsd then? ,

Dealers tend to know between nothing and bugger all about the cars they are selling apart from the commission it generates.

The upset about the Cayman is that it is principally targeted as a 'Sports' version of a Boxster ie it is stiffer,more power etc but where Porsche let it down is that without an LSD even as an option it really isn't that sporty.

With the 997 Porsche have effectively offered a GT car (PASM) or for those who want a 'Sports' 997 the -20mm and LSD option.

The real reason the Cayman doesn't have an LSD though is because if it did it would be faster than a 997 on a circuit, which would certainly not do

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