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    Baby Pagani being made?

    "Don't place your deposit on a Gallardo just yet. For most of us, a Lamborghini in the garage is a distant dream, but anyone fortunate enough to be in the market for a compact supercar could soon be spoilt for choice.

    Auto Express can reveal Pagani is planning to produce a baby Zonda, which will use Mercedes power in a bid to teach its Italian rival a thing or two about exotic performance. Talks are underway with the German firm's in-house tuner AMG about donating the supercharged V8 from the SL55 to the newcomer. The Zonda already uses a 7.3-litre version of AMG's V12 powerplant, tuned to produce 555bhp. In the new model, the smaller V8 is likely to provide at least 490bhp and a sub-4.5-second 0-60mph time.

    As our exclusive images in this week's issue show, the car will be a more compact evolution of the Zonda's shape, with a far more muscular stance than the Lamborghini. What's more, it will lose some of the larger Pagani's outrageous styling, giving
    a cleaner look. It will still be easily recognisable, with the familiar shape of the glass area and bulging wheelarches complementing the drooping rear end and sharp nose. The design will be finished by two raised, centrally mounted tailpipes, which will no doubt emit a suitably sporty exhaust note.

    The project is still in its early stages, so don't expect to see the baby Pagani on the road until 2006. With the full-size Zonda costing Pounds350,000, the newcomer will make the exclusive marque far more accessible, with prices likely to start at around Pounds130,000"

    :A/E UK...

    Comes as a bit of a shock since McLaren are also planning a car in that category but with possibly an "underpowered" engine when compared to the V8K. But now you have even more choice 420M, GT2, Gallardo, P8, and now this...all top class cars IMO.

    Re: Baby Pagani being made?

    Quote:
    ///AMG Mercedes said:
    Auto Express can reveal Pagani is planning to produce a baby Zonda, which will use Mercedes power in a bid to teach its Italian rival a thing or two about exotic performance.



    Like, how to do without it for instance?

    Quote:

    Talks are underway with the German firm's in-house tuner AMG about donating the supercharged V8 from the SL55 to the newcomer. The Zonda already uses a 7.3-litre version of AMG's V12 powerplant, tuned to produce 555bhp.



    Only 76hp/liter from a SUPERCHARGED engine? And they had to tune it to get that much? Are we talking about a diesel here?
    When they say "donating", does that mean they can't afford to pay for it?

    Quote:

    In the new model, the smaller V8 is likely to provide at least 490bhp ....



    Hmm, still only 90hp/liter from a SUPERCHARGED engine , but at least they are heading in the right direction.

    fritz

    Re: Baby Pagani being made?

    Whats wrong with Mercedes power? Fritz do you even know what the Zonda is? Its a 220mph world beating supercar that uses a N/A 7.3 555bhp "only" Mercedes engine. Without that engine the car would be nothing. Ok, so the Enzo uses 6.0L an has 660hp, but does it have SOHC and 2 valves per cylinder or can last 300K+ miles? Why do you think Fangio requested Horacio a Mercedes engine? Lets not forget that 780Nm mid range punch! Show me a NA engine that can do that

    They are planning to use the V8 Kompressor engine with 500bhp. While the SL55 is nearly as quick as the Gallardo and 911T/modena, all of which have also 400-500bhp or near enough and are about 400kgs lighter than the SL55. Could you imagine putting that supercharged engine in a 1.5Ton car? Possibly even a lighter car than that? This new car may overshadow the Zonda.

    I still think you have your facts messed up

    Re: Baby Pagani being made?

    Isn't the 7.3L V12 naturally aspirated? It's not exactly the first engine you might expect in an Italian supercar, but it seems to work for them. We know what the supercharged V8 is capable of from the SLR and I'm sure that engine isn't pushing the limits too much either. Anyway, Mercedes should be switching to direct injection 4-valve motors soon I believe. The 3-valve motors accomplish what they were designed for, but AMG is capable of so much more.

    Using a Mercedes/AMG engine is probably one of the few economical ways for Pagani to produce their baby.


    Re: Baby Pagani being made?

    it won't overshadow the zonda...remember that by that time it will have its engine tweaked.

    Re: Baby Pagani being made?

    Ah yes, the 700bhp motor, forgot about that!

    Justin, the current motors are 3 vales per cylinder, but this old V12 is only 2 valves per cylinder. There is a direct injection 4 valve motor being designed by Mercedes of 4.6 V8 capacity and 355bhp, an AMG version of 6.3L and 500bhp and 600Nm will replace the V8 Kompressor and be AMG's sole motor for its bread and butter cars, including the CLK/SLK, but possibly detuned for these cars.

    When Horacio asked Fangio which motor the car should have, the answer was simple: "Mercedes".

    As justin said, you know what the V8 Kompressor is capable of in a 1.7 Ton car, lets see what it could do in a lighter car

    Re: Baby Pagani being made?

    The Zonda engine is a masterpiece, and is NA.
    But it's the whole package that makes that car amazing, the chassis is brilliant too.
    I personally don't like the styling, the interior is fantastic, but the exterior is a bit weird to my taste.

    Re: Baby Pagani being made?

    Agreed.


    BUT THE SOUND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Re: Baby Pagani being made?

    Quote:
    ///AMG Mercedes said:
    I still think you have your facts messed up



    Bilal,
    You are right of course with regard to one non-fact.
    The 7.3 liter engine is not supercharged! Must have been past my bedtime!

    But the point I was making is still valid. 76 bhp/liter is not state-of-the-art even for a naturally aspirated engine, and it most certainly does not represent the "exotic performance" cited by Auto Express. Manufacturers looking for "exotic performance" look upon a specific power output of about 33% higher (100+ bhp/liter) as being the lowest bench mark for NA engines these days!

    The same would also apply to a (really) supercharged 5.4 liter engine only producing 90 bhp/liter - a lower specific power output than any "exotic" NA sports car engine.

    I'm just wondering why a Zonda (which I don't know anything about, of course) needs a huge lump of a 7.3 liter engine for, if that engine produces "only" 555 bhp. The whole car weighs in at only 1250 kg, according to Horacio.

    The last thing the 2 cars I saw on Pagani's stand at Geneva last month were begging for was a low revving high-torque ship engine! Though I must admit that it didn't seem to spoil Tiff Needell's fun when he tested one on "5th. Gear" a couple of years ago. (Might even have been "Top Gear" before that show got reprocessed from being a good car show into a second rate comedy show starring that stand-up artist Jeremy Clarkson).

    I wasn't getting at Zonda or MB so much as wondering about the "factual" basis of the article:- Another slow news day? OK, let's print some more BS!

    fritz

    Re: Baby Pagani being made?

    I personally don't like a really high revving torque less engine. Torquey engines with corret gearing have great everyday flexibility, and lets not forget actually feeling all that torque! The Zonda's amazing chassis setup and gorgeous looks, coupled with a Merc engine just screams exotica!.

    The Ferrari 3 series engines are an exception, just hear those things! The 575M V12 is just right for torque and power, and noise.

    Just my opinion...

    Re: Baby Pagani being made?

    how about the new naturally aspirated 6.3 liter 510 hp and 630 nm v8 from in a eventual new smaller pagani

    Re: Baby Pagani being made?

    knoert is right, and the 7.3 in the zonda F produces 612 HP, a very solid output, and the torque! (575 lbs i beleive)

    Re: Baby Pagani being made?

    The Pagani Zonda F is the most amazing car on the market today, there is no car that can match its presence, exhaust note and track performance!
    I read an article where they tested the Zonda F, Porsche GT and Ferrari 430 and they said that the GT and 430 were not even noticed driving with the Zonda.

    It has the record for Top Gear Power laps, beating the Porsche GT by 1.4 seconds and the Enzo by .6 second while having only 602 hp!
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/topgear/powerlaps/

    Here is the Top Gear video of the Zonda F, real racing sound.

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7767442844475196952&q=Zonda

    I look foreward to the new Zonda coming out, I read a few months ago this could be 2007 with smaller model being introduced into the market at a price of US$400,000! Not exactly Porsche Turbo, Gallardo or Ferrari 430 territory. I would say more competing with Murcielago.

    Re: Baby Pagani being made?

    The Zonda is the exotic car on the market today.
    I'd heard rumors about a smaller model too and I hope they build it with the same passion and excitement as the Zonda.

    Re: Baby Pagani being made?

    Anyone have info on when Pagani plans to introduce the "baby" Zonda into the US market? It will be priced in the $300K USD range last I heard.

    Re: Baby Pagani being made?

    I'm not sure when we'll see the 'baby' Pagani introduced.

    italiaspeed.com says it should be released in 2006, but that seems a little early. I hope they're right though.

    Re: Baby Pagani being made?

    Quote:
    Bilal said:
    Whats wrong with Mercedes power? Fritz do you even know what the Zonda is? Its a 220mph world beating supercar that uses a N/A 7.3 555bhp "only" Mercedes engine. Without that engine the car would be nothing. Ok, so the Enzo uses 6.0L an has 660hp, but does it have SOHC and 2 valves per cylinder or can last 300K+ miles? Why do you think Fangio requested Horacio a Mercedes engine? Lets not forget that 780Nm mid range punch! Show me a NA engine that can do that

    They are planning to use the V8 Kompressor engine with 500bhp. While the SL55 is nearly as quick as the Gallardo and 911T/modena, all of which have also 400-500bhp or near enough and are about 400kgs lighter than the SL55. Could you imagine putting that supercharged engine in a 1.5Ton car? Possibly even a lighter car than that? This new car may overshadow the Zonda.

    I still think you have your facts messed up <img src="http://www.rennteam.com/w3timages/graemlins/usa.gif" alt="" />



    Bilal, the Zonda isn't a 220 mph supercar. Actually, when tested at Nardo, it topped out at 191 mph . Also, there is nothing everydayish about the Zonda. Heavy clutch, low ground clearance, uncomfortable for longer trips - but hey, the engine is a luxo-Benz. When you buy a supercar for $300.000 and more, don't you want a true, exotic-sounding engine? It just seems pointless to me to have a 7.3-litre engine in the car, that is only putting out 550 BHP. Heck, for that purpose they could use the Mercedes S600 engine with a Maybach ECU (as some guy Trey did in the US - ran sub 12-second times, trapping close to 120 in his S600). Lighter and more advanced.

    Re: Baby Pagani being made?

    dude, have you ever heared the zonda engine in case you haven't watched the videolink above here is it again and I dare you to say the engine doesn't sound exotic: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7767442844475196952&q=pagani

    Re: Baby Pagani being made?

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    Bilal said:
    Whats wrong with Mercedes power? Fritz do you even know what the Zonda is? Its a 220mph world beating supercar that uses a N/A 7.3 555bhp "only" Mercedes engine. Without that engine the car would be nothing. Ok, so the Enzo uses 6.0L an has 660hp, but does it have SOHC and 2 valves per cylinder or can last 300K+ miles? Why do you think Fangio requested Horacio a Mercedes engine? Lets not forget that 780Nm mid range punch! Show me a NA engine that can do that

    They are planning to use the V8 Kompressor engine with 500bhp. While the SL55 is nearly as quick as the Gallardo and 911T/modena, all of which have also 400-500bhp or near enough and are about 400kgs lighter than the SL55. Could you imagine putting that supercharged engine in a 1.5Ton car? Possibly even a lighter car than that? This new car may overshadow the Zonda.

    I still think you have your facts messed up <img src="http://www.rennteam.com/w3timages/graemlins/usa.gif" alt="" />



    Bilal, the Zonda isn't a 220 mph supercar. Actually, when tested at Nardo, it topped out at 191 mph . Also, there is nothing everydayish about the Zonda. Heavy clutch, low ground clearance, uncomfortable for longer trips - but hey, the engine is a luxo-Benz. When you buy a supercar for $300.000 and more, don't you want a true, exotic-sounding engine? It just seems pointless to me to have a 7.3-litre engine in the car, that is only putting out 550 BHP. Heck, for that purpose they could use the Mercedes S600 engine with a Maybach ECU (as some guy Trey did in the US - ran sub 12-second times, trapping close to 120 in his S600). Lighter and more advanced.



    You must have been joking in the last post Crash, the Pagani Zonda F is the most exotic sounding car there is. Sounds even better than the Porsche GT, it shreiks! What car do you think sounds more exotic? The Zonda can lap faster than MC12, Enzo and GT with less hp, proves that chassis design is more impertant than hp or top speed.
    I guess that makes the Koenigsegg your favorite car, after all it has 806hp @ 6900rpm with hp/liter @ 171 with a proven at Nardo top speed of 242 MPH.

    I think you need to watch the video, you obviously have not heard it before.

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7767442844475196952&q=Zonda

    I think if you asked me what the most amazing supercar of this decade is I would say the Pagani Zonda F. There is nothing like it on the planet right now!

    Re: Baby Pagani being made?

    zonda sounds amazing, but the CGT isnt any worse hehe. both are amazing, but that zonda.....wow. surprising since its not revving that high; now to get that exhuast on a normal mercedes.....thatd be good:)

    Re: Baby Pagani being made?

    Quote:
    vinnie said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    Bilal said:
    Whats wrong with Mercedes power? Fritz do you even know what the Zonda is? Its a 220mph world beating supercar that uses a N/A 7.3 555bhp "only" Mercedes engine. Without that engine the car would be nothing. Ok, so the Enzo uses 6.0L an has 660hp, but does it have SOHC and 2 valves per cylinder or can last 300K+ miles? Why do you think Fangio requested Horacio a Mercedes engine? Lets not forget that 780Nm mid range punch! Show me a NA engine that can do that

    They are planning to use the V8 Kompressor engine with 500bhp. While the SL55 is nearly as quick as the Gallardo and 911T/modena, all of which have also 400-500bhp or near enough and are about 400kgs lighter than the SL55. Could you imagine putting that supercharged engine in a 1.5Ton car? Possibly even a lighter car than that? This new car may overshadow the Zonda.

    I still think you have your facts messed up <img src="http://www.rennteam.com/w3timages/graemlins/usa.gif" alt="" />



    Bilal, the Zonda isn't a 220 mph supercar. Actually, when tested at Nardo, it topped out at 191 mph . Also, there is nothing everydayish about the Zonda. Heavy clutch, low ground clearance, uncomfortable for longer trips - but hey, the engine is a luxo-Benz. When you buy a supercar for $300.000 and more, don't you want a true, exotic-sounding engine? It just seems pointless to me to have a 7.3-litre engine in the car, that is only putting out 550 BHP. Heck, for that purpose they could use the Mercedes S600 engine with a Maybach ECU (as some guy Trey did in the US - ran sub 12-second times, trapping close to 120 in his S600). Lighter and more advanced.



    You must have been joking in the last post Crash, the Pagani Zonda F is the most exotic sounding car there is. Sounds even better than the Porsche GT, it shreiks! What car do you think sounds more exotic? The Zonda can lap faster than MC12, Enzo and GT with less hp, proves that chassis design is more impertant than hp or top speed.
    I guess that makes the Koenigsegg your favorite car, after all it has 806hp @ 6900rpm with hp/liter @ 171 with a proven at Nardo top speed of 242 MPH.

    I think you need to watch the video, you obviously have not heard it before.

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7767442844475196952&q=Zonda

    I think if you asked me what the most amazing supercar of this decade is I would say the Pagani Zonda F. There is nothing like it on the planet right now!



    Vinnie,

    I actually prefer the CGT howl to the shriek of the Zonda. Certainly, the Zonda F is better than the predecessor with its 555 HP. Regarding Top Gear lap times, you should always take those with a grain of salt. It wouldn't really surprise me if it were faster than the Enzo or the Carrera GT, but I'm not convinced that it is from times, produced by a 2nd rate comedy show.
    I prefer the Zonda to the Koenigsegg any day, since I'm more of a brutal acceleration between the corners type of guy than a top speed fanatic (although I'd prefer my $500.000 exotic supercar to be able to run away from a deregulated SL65 on the Autobahn as opposed to topping out below 200 and having the Benz driver leisurely walk past me). If you ask me what the most amazing supercar is, I'd say Carrera GT. The most reliable and (reasonably) streetable supercar currently available.

    Re: Baby Pagani being made?

    (although I'd prefer my $500.000 exotic supercar to be able to run away from a deregulated SL65 on the Autobahn as opposed to topping out below 200 and having the Benz driver leisurely walk past me).

    Leisurely walk past you at around 200mph? I think you need to snap out of your daydream!

    Re: Baby Pagani being made?

    has sportauto done a Zonda F super test?

    Re: Baby Pagani being made?

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    vinnie said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    Bilal said:
    Whats wrong with Mercedes power? Fritz do you even know what the Zonda is? Its a 220mph world beating supercar that uses a N/A 7.3 555bhp "only" Mercedes engine. Without that engine the car would be nothing. Ok, so the Enzo uses 6.0L an has 660hp, but does it have SOHC and 2 valves per cylinder or can last 300K+ miles? Why do you think Fangio requested Horacio a Mercedes engine? Lets not forget that 780Nm mid range punch! Show me a NA engine that can do that

    They are planning to use the V8 Kompressor engine with 500bhp. While the SL55 is nearly as quick as the Gallardo and 911T/modena, all of which have also 400-500bhp or near enough and are about 400kgs lighter than the SL55. Could you imagine putting that supercharged engine in a 1.5Ton car? Possibly even a lighter car than that? This new car may overshadow the Zonda.

    I still think you have your facts messed up <img src="http://www.rennteam.com/w3timages/graemlins/usa.gif" alt="" />



    Bilal, the Zonda isn't a 220 mph supercar. Actually, when tested at Nardo, it topped out at 191 mph . Also, there is nothing everydayish about the Zonda. Heavy clutch, low ground clearance, uncomfortable for longer trips - but hey, the engine is a luxo-Benz. When you buy a supercar for $300.000 and more, don't you want a true, exotic-sounding engine? It just seems pointless to me to have a 7.3-litre engine in the car, that is only putting out 550 BHP. Heck, for that purpose they could use the Mercedes S600 engine with a Maybach ECU (as some guy Trey did in the US - ran sub 12-second times, trapping close to 120 in his S600). Lighter and more advanced.



    You must have been joking in the last post Crash, the Pagani Zonda F is the most exotic sounding car there is. Sounds even better than the Porsche GT, it shreiks! What car do you think sounds more exotic? The Zonda can lap faster than MC12, Enzo and GT with less hp, proves that chassis design is more impertant than hp or top speed.
    I guess that makes the Koenigsegg your favorite car, after all it has 806hp @ 6900rpm with hp/liter @ 171 with a proven at Nardo top speed of 242 MPH.

    I think you need to watch the video, you obviously have not heard it before.

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7767442844475196952&q=Zonda

    I think if you asked me what the most amazing supercar of this decade is I would say the Pagani Zonda F. There is nothing like it on the planet right now!



    Vinnie,

    I actually prefer the CGT howl to the shriek of the Zonda. Certainly, the Zonda F is better than the predecessor with its 555 HP. Regarding Top Gear lap times, you should always take those with a grain of salt. It wouldn't really surprise me if it were faster than the Enzo or the Carrera GT, but I'm not convinced that it is from times, produced by a 2nd rate comedy show.
    I prefer the Zonda to the Koenigsegg any day, since I'm more of a brutal acceleration between the corners type of guy than a top speed fanatic (although I'd prefer my $500.000 exotic supercar to be able to run away from a deregulated SL65 on the Autobahn as opposed to topping out below 200 and having the Benz driver leisurely walk past me). If you ask me what the most amazing supercar is, I'd say Carrera GT. The most reliable and (reasonably) streetable supercar currently available.



    Crash, the Porsche GT is a great car but far too edgy, far too dangerous and when driven alongside Zonda, GT goes unnoticed. I have read that the Pagani test car for the press has done some incredible amount of miles without any troubles while still feeling and driving like a fresh new car. this to me sounds like an ultra reliable car, it would be interesting how some of these other supercars with "strung out" engines fare into the future.

    http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=184008&an=0&page=0#184008

    Re: Baby Pagani being made?

    Another benefit of owning a Pagani Zonda is that you can get it serviced at any Mercedes dealership.
    How convenient

    Re: Baby Pagani being made?

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    Re: Baby Pagani being made?

    2.

    Re: Baby Pagani being made?

    Quote:
    Hanny said:
    (although I'd prefer my $500.000 exotic supercar to be able to run away from a deregulated SL65 on the Autobahn as opposed to topping out below 200 and having the Benz driver leisurely walk past me).

    Leisurely walk past you at around 200mph? I think you need to snap out of your daydream!



    Where I'm from we have three-lane highways that are often almost completely empty, depending on the time of day. If "my" Zonda tops out at 200 mph and the SL65 tops out at 208 mph, I'd say that's a pretty leisurely walk. Figure of speech of course, there's nothing truly leisurely about anything over 170 mph.

    Re: Baby Pagani being made?

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    Re: Baby Pagani being made?

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