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    Oil Check in The 997S

    Gents: since the 997 does not have a dip stick going through the computer, the engine has to be off for checking the oil level, but it takes 5 minutes, is there another way? Or if the oil level is low does the warning light comes on? But then again when you add oil you have to wait 5 minutes to see if you have added enough oil? Please advise.

    Thanks

    Re: Oil Check in The 997S

    If you do the oil checking when the engine is cold, the process takes 5 seconds, not 5 minutes. The elapsed time correlates with the amount of time Porsche deems it will take for all the oil up in the netherregions of the motor to make its way down into the reservoir, so you get an accurate reading. If the engine is cold, that means the car's been sitting for a long while, and all of the oil that will ever make it to the reservoir, is there, and it's a quick check. If you've been driving the car recently, the computer is programmed to WAIT for a time sufficient for all of the oil that is up in the engine to drop out and creep back into the reservoir.

    In short, check your oil in the morning before you start the car. Add as-needed. Don't start the car until you're dialed-in....

    Re: Oil Check in The 997S

    Thanks buddy (69bossnine), appreciate your help here.

    Re: Oil Check in The 997S

    The most accurate way to check the oil level is immediately after re-fueling, as an automatic level is shown as soon as you turn the key and stays there for several minutes even after starting the engine.

    Pre-conditions are :-

    (1) At least 5 minutes must elapse between parking the car and re-starting the engine. This is not a problem as the process of filling up and going to pay for it will take at least 5 minutes.
    (2) It won't happen if the re-fuelling process takes more than 15 minutes (unlikely).

    If the oil indicator shows any empty segments - add 0.4 litres of oil per segment.

    Any malfunction of the display indicator will result in a warning message in the on-board computer.

    Hope this helps

    Re: Oil Check in The 997S

    Quote:
    69bossnine said:
    If you've been driving the car recently, the computer is programmed to WAIT for a time sufficient for all of the oil that is up in the engine to drop out and creep back into the reservoir.





    Actually the computer doesn't wait, like it had to in the 996. The 997 system employs a new thing called "map compensation" and actually calculates, based on several factors, the amount of oil still sticking to the non-sump parts of the warm engine. So engine oil "measurments" come on-line faster.

    Re: Oil Check in The 997S

    Quote:
    MMD said:
    Quote:
    69bossnine said:
    If you've been driving the car recently, the computer is programmed to WAIT for a time sufficient for all of the oil that is up in the engine to drop out and creep back into the reservoir.





    Actually the computer doesn't wait, like it had to in the 996. The 997 system employs a new thing called "map compensation" and actually calculates, based on several factors, the amount of oil still sticking to the non-sump parts of the warm engine. So engine oil "measurments" come on-line faster.



    It still takes too long, as I usually think to check the oil right before I'm about to start the car and go somewhere, and I'm not about to hang out for so long just to get an oil reading. Besides, given the fact that my clock doesn't even keep time, and nobody can seem to accurately reconcile computer-measured fuel economy with manually calculated fuel economy, do you really trust Porsche to calculate oil-drip-down??? I'll keep checking mine, cold, in the AM before cranking to go to work.

    Re: Oil Check in The 997S

    You'll never get an 'accurate' oil level reading with a cold engine, even on cars with dip sticks!! - see my post above.

    Re: Oil Check in The 997S

    It is also my understanding that we should take oil measurement every time when we fill up the tank. I also believe that we alway should take the oil measuerment when it is warm (May not be hot???)

    Re: Oil Check in The 997S

    Share with us why checking cold is not accurate.... Or better yet, why it wouldn't be the easiest/most-practical way to go about.

    Given my limited understanding of fluid dynamics, the cold reading would give you a "worst-case" scenario, every time, to ensure that you never ran LOW on oil, which is the last thing you want to do, and which is really, the primary concern. Once you're in the safe range, and not overfilled, the rest is just picking fly-$hit out of the pepper...

    Re: Oil Check in The 997S

    Quote:
    69bossnine said:
    Share with us why checking cold is not accurate.... Or better yet, why it wouldn't be the easiest/most-practical way to go about.

    Given my limited understanding of fluid dynamics, the cold reading would give you a "worst-case" scenario, every time, to ensure that you never ran LOW on oil, which is the last thing you want to do, and which is really, the primary concern. Once you're in the safe range, and not overfilled, the rest is just picking fly-$hit out of the pepper...



    69 is right, the 997 does not have a dry sump lubrication system hence the oil measurement is better done with engine cold for the reasons he explained.
    On the opposite, engines like the Turbo/ GT3, oil measurement has to be done with the engine running and warm.

    Re: Oil Check in The 997S

    For whatever reason, try to take a oil measurement early in morning. It will tell you the wait time is 30 mins or so. Even when you read the owner manual, it recommands you to take the measurement every time you fill up the tank. Not in the morning when cool. Also, the sale person also told me the same when I pick up my car. Please try to remenber back in the old day, do you check your dip stick at the warm engine after you chance you oil???

    Re: Oil Check in The 997S

    Quote:
    69bossnine said:
    Share with us why checking cold is not accurate.... Or better yet, why it wouldn't be the easiest/most-practical way to go about.

    Given my limited understanding of fluid dynamics, the cold reading would give you a "worst-case" scenario, every time, to ensure that you never ran LOW on oil, which is the last thing you want to do, and which is really, the primary concern. Once you're in the safe range, and not overfilled, the rest is just picking fly-$hit out of the pepper...



    Love the fly-$hit bit and you're probably right at the bottom line.

    However I'm merely passing on, in general, what people, far more qualified than I, have advocated over the years.

    Specifically to the 997, the manual and OPC service engineers recommend, as I stated before, that the check should be performed after re-fuelling. Why else would the function be automatic and immediately available?

    Re: Oil Check in The 997S

    Quote:
    69bossnine said:
    Share with us why checking cold is not accurate.... Or better yet, why it wouldn't be the easiest/most-practical way to go about.

    Given my limited understanding of fluid dynamics, the cold reading would give you a "worst-case" scenario, every time, to ensure that you never ran LOW on oil, which is the last thing you want to do, and which is really, the primary concern. Once you're in the safe range, and not overfilled, the rest is just picking fly-$hit out of the pepper...



    Not an expert here. However, on page 181 of the manual (aka "gospel") the authors state that the oil level will appear LOWER when the engine is hot due to less "diluting agents" that evaporate or are vaporized with aggressive driving. My guess is that (instead of cold oil) would represent "worst case" as you put it.
    I'm just extrapolating from the manual.

    Re: Oil Check in The 997S

    Oil measurement should be done when the oil is WARM. Not hot or cold. As state in the manual, it should be measure when you fill up your tank. That means let the engine cool down form about 10 - 15 min after driving. Of course, after aggressive, you may want to wait for a little bit longer. Just how I see it.

    Re: Oil Check in The 997S

    Quote:
    69bossnine said:
    do you really trust Porsche to calculate oil-drip-down??? I'll keep checking mine, cold, in the AM before cranking to go to work.



    Good question, and yes (for some strange reason ) I DO trust it. I figure that if Porsche get's it wrong they'll have to replace blown engines because unlike when there's a owner responsible for using the dipstick, now Porsche can only blame themselves (for a defective, innaccurate oil measurment system).

    I'll also pay more attention to it and try to figure out it's quirks.

    Besides, if you're down a quart what difference does it make? It seems the current system will eventually figure it out and tell you to add more. It's probably NOT as accurate as a dipstick in the right hands but it IS as accurate as it had has to be.

    If somebody claims being a quart down IS perilous and I'll claim Porsche tweeked the crankcase "architecture (!?)" to survive being a quart down. Or whatever volume(half-quart), with the dipstick-less system the "right" amount of oil needed by the engine is always indicated.

    HEY! That's a new insult we can hurl at some dork in a 997, "Hey dipstickless!"

    Re: Oil Check in The 997S

    Quote:
    MMD said:
    Quote:
    69bossnine said:
    do you really trust Porsche to calculate oil-drip-down??? I'll keep checking mine, cold, in the AM before cranking to go to work.



    Good question, and yes (for some strange reason ) I DO trust it. I figure that if Porsche get's it wrong they'll have to replace blown engines because unlike when there's a owner responsible for using the dipstick, now Porsche can only blame themselves (for a defective, innaccurate oil measurment system).

    I'll also pay more attention to it and try to figure out it's quirks.

    Besides, if you're down a quart what difference does it make? It seems the current system will eventually figure it out and tell you to add more. It's probably NOT as accurate as a dipstick in the right hands but it IS as accurate as it had has to be.

    If somebody claims being a quart down IS perilous and I'll claim Porsche tweeked the crankcase "architecture (!?)" to survive being a quart down. Or whatever volume(half-quart), with the dipstick-less system the "right" amount of oil needed by the engine is always indicated.

    HEY! That's a new insult we can hurl at some dork in a 997, "Hey dipstickless!"




    Your entire post here illuminates the fact that, with so much oil on-board in a 911, debating whether we should check it cold, hot or warm is all just an exercise of over-kill. As long as you keep it in the middle or toward the top of the ballpark, who cares. This is like discussing how many millimeters below the coping I should fill my swimming pool.

    Re: Oil Check in The 997S

    While everyone's hot on the topic of when to check oil, I'd like to ask everyone's opinion on a recent oil change I just performed at 10K. Is it normal to find very small minute metal particles embedded in the oil filter? Assume this is part of the break-in period, but with such tight tolerances would this be normal? BTW I check my oil cold in the morning and sometimes warm after coming home just to make sure. Found that checking at gas stations can yield inconsistent results...not always level. At least I know my garage is.

    Re: Oil Check in The 997S

    If your driveway, street or garage is level you should check the oil after the car has been sitting several hours or in most cases you will be checking it after it has been sitting overnight. As far as I'm concerned this is the best time to check it and will result in getting the most accurate oil measurement.

    As a side note if Porsche is listening: I want my DIPSTICK BACK!

    The statement in the manual about checking it after refueling is based at least in part on the following:

    1. You have likely driven several hundred miles since the last re-fueling
    2. Most fuel islands are level
    3. If you do need oil you'll likely find it at a gas station

    From the '06 997 Manual:

    Oil return time

    Before the oil level is measured, the engine oil has
    to have flowed back into the oil pan.
    The time taken for the engine oil to flow back depends
    on the engine temperature and how long
    the engine has been stopped.

    This waiting time is counted down in the on-board
    computer display when the ignition is switched on.
    The oil level display segments start to "cycle".

    It is best to measure the engine oil level before
    embarking on a journey (if the vehicle has not
    been driven for an extended period) or with the
    engine at operating temperature. Shorter waiting
    times are achieved in this way.

    Re: Oil Check in The 997S

    Quote:
    911Fanatic said:
    Is it normal to find very small minute metal particles embedded in the oil filter?



    Yes, that has always been my experience with every car, boat and motorcycle that I've owned.

    Re: Oil Check in The 997S

    Quote:
    P997C2S said:
    I want my DIPSTICK BACK!



    From the '06 997 Manual: Oil return time





    I don't get it, who needs more stuff to do? I'm glad the dipstick is gone. More greasy work, and I never really liked that single drop missing my rag and getting away from me %25 percent of the time.

    Maybe the 997 manual needs a little bit of updating, because the oil level measuring system in the 997 is not like that in the 996. There's no way you have to wait an hour to get an oil reading in the 997; it's a matter of minutes. It's all good news!

    Re: Oil Check in The 997S

    Porsche Marketing, are you getting all this? Dipstick option; $750, with Carbon Fiber handle $950!

    By the way, isn't technology supposed to make things easier? I don't recall ever having to refer to the owner's manual (or a forum) to figure out how to check my oil level.

    Re: Oil Check in The 997S

    Quote:
    MMD said:
    I don't get it, who needs more stuff to do? I'm glad the dipstick is gone. More greasy work, and I never really liked that single drop missing my rag and getting away from me %25 percent of the time.




    A dipstick provides redundancy and the only reason it's not there is it saved Porsche $20 to leave it out. No one says you must use it but would be nice to know that it's there if you do need it.

    A dipstick is also useful to get some oil for an oil analysis and is also useful in determining if your oil is contaminated with coolant.

    Re: Oil Check in The 997S

    Quote:
    P997C2S said:


    A dipstick is also useful to get some oil for an oil analysis and is also useful in determining if your oil is contaminated with coolant.



    You bring up a good point. I wonder if there is a straight shot thru the oil filler cap and into the sump for this unit to work for extraction of a sample.

    Re: Oil Check in The 997S

    Interesting -----------------comments not yet made:

    The repeatability of the readings is not perfect, with uncertainty of one division. An experienced Tech Editor in one Porsche Mag suggested that it was wiser not to refill until the reading was consistently nearer to 2*0.4 divisions down, rather than just one. After checking many times I agree with that ---

    Second one ----- if you test cold, and you have happened to have had a week or so of quite minor running, even if the oil temp did reach normal, the bulid up of water/contaminant can be as much as 1.5 divisions and of course more ----.

    Some memory or car-note to that effect is useful before/or not, topping up! 80km will boil off the fluids ------

    Cheers KiwiC

    Re: Oil Check in The 997S

    Quote:
    KiwiCanuck said:
    not to refill until the reading was consistently nearer to 2*0.4 divisions down, rather than just one.



    Stupid question, what do you mean by "2*0.4 divisions down"? Do you mean that one should not refill any oil until there is only one measurement light left on?

    Re: Oil Check in The 997S

    Quote:
    superfans said:
    Quote:
    KiwiCanuck said:
    not to refill until the reading was consistently nearer to 2*0.4 divisions down, rather than just one.



    Stupid question, what do you mean by "2*0.4 divisions down"? Do you mean that one should not refill any oil until there is only one measurement light left on?



    i think all he's trying to say is - try not to be overenthusiastic when topping off the oil (e.g. as soon as the top bar goes).
    whether you do top off after 1st or last bar really doesn't matter, as long as it's done within recommended tolerance.

    Re: Oil Check in The 997S

    Hi'All,

    Each division is 0.4 L; 2*0.4 is shorthand for two 0.4 divisions. Otherwise no changes in the 1st reply I wrote.

    KiwiC

    Re: Oil Check in The 997S

    There is no reason to add oil if you are down one segment. When you are down two segments you should only add 1/2 quart of oil at a time or you risk overfilling it.

    I still want a crummy dipstick. This isn't a dry sump engine so there's no reason not to have one.

    Re: Oil Check in The 997S

    Quote:
    KiwiCanuck said:
    Hi'All,

    Each division is 0.4 L; 2*0.4 is shorthand for two 0.4 divisions. Otherwise no changes in the 1st reply I wrote.

    KiwiC



    Hey KiwiC - You're a dab hand at shorthand, are you a secretary or summat?

     
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