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    Dec 21, 2003 12:48:27 PM

    Bilal
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    Bilal
    Loc: Manchester, UK
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    Reply to: CynCarvin32

    Re: C55 AMG Estate

    If the C55 gets a V8 that puts out more than 367HP, when will the CLK get an upgrade? 4 years time when its facelift is due?

    The C32 is already a second quicker than the CLK55 from a standing km, so a 430HP C55 is gonna be sold for about the same price as a the C32 if not slightly more, while others have to make do with a measly 367hp CLK for the same price as the E55? (In UK, a CLK55 costs 57K, and the E55 62K)

    Rarely has Mercedes released a model that is cheaper and faster than its top of the line models, with the exception of thr E55, that thing is QUICK.

    Dec 21, 2003 9:57:21 PM

    CynCarvin32
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    CynCarvin32
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    Reply to: Bilal

    Re: C55 AMG Estate

    I think you need to understand this a little bit more Bilal. Maybe I did not explain my self properly (i have a tendency to do this )

    The 3-valve motor will be replaced very soon. The first versions will be in the SLK cars. When the SLK55 debuts at the Geneva (if i remember correctly) auto show it will have the quad cam motor. If the 3.5L motor has 272 hp, the 5.5L motor should make around 400bhp. 430hp is a high estimate but it still is something worth thinking about. I do not see the 5.5L quad cam being that powerful but it should will yield more power than the current 3-valve version.

    At this point, the old 5.5L motor (non blower) will most likely end production (or be scaled back greatly) for it will have no use other than for the G55. The Kompressor cars are to be short lived as well for the non-blower E55 is already being tested on high-speed tracks in Germany. But this is not what I am trying to discuss.

    The CLK55 will surely get a "freshening" sooner than 4 years from now. Did the W203 go 4+ years with no freshening? No, it well be freshened for mid year 2004. So in a year or so the CLK will get a freshening and I would expect it to get a power increase as well. All MB models get a mid production cycle freshening that that is a great time to update the driveline. MB needs to get these new DI quad cam motors to market for various reasons but among the reasons: they run far cleaner than the current motors and they use noticeably less fuel.


    As for pricing, the CLK55 is a total joke. It is by no means worth the 57k (uk) 70k (usd). I am in the market for a new car and I looked at the CLK55 and a E55. The interior of the CLK55 is lower rent than the C32 and the E55 is by far the car of choice.
    But if AMG has the SLK55 with a quad cam motor I see little to no reason to put an older 3-valve motor into the newly freshened C55. Being that the 3 valve motors made about 20hp less than the new DI gas motors I say the 5.5L motor should make around 20 hp more than the current 5.5L motor. This puts the car at the doorstep of 400bhp.

    Dec 21, 2003 9:57:21 PM

    CynCarvin32
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    CynCarvin32
    Loc:
    Posts: 15, Gallery
    Registered on: Aug 12, 2003
    Reply to: Bilal

    Re: C55 AMG Estate

    I think you need to understand this a little bit more Bilal. Maybe I did not explain my self properly (i have a tendency to do this )

    The 3-valve motor will be replaced very soon. The first versions will be in the SLK cars. When the SLK55 debuts at the Geneva (if i remember correctly) auto show it will have the quad cam motor. If the 3.5L motor has 272 hp, the 5.5L motor should make around 400bhp. 430hp is a high estimate but it still is something worth thinking about. I do not see the 5.5L quad cam being that powerful but it should will yield more power than the current 3-valve version.

    At this point, the old 5.5L motor (non blower) will most likely end production (or be scaled back greatly) for it will have no use other than for the G55. The Kompressor cars are to be short lived as well for the non-blower E55 is already being tested on high-speed tracks in Germany. But this is not what I am trying to discuss.

    The CLK55 will surely get a "freshening" sooner than 4 years from now. Did the W203 go 4+ years with no freshening? No, it well be freshened for mid year 2004. So in a year or so the CLK will get a freshening and I would expect it to get a power increase as well. All MB models get a mid production cycle freshening that that is a great time to update the driveline. MB needs to get these new DI quad cam motors to market for various reasons but among the reasons: they run far cleaner than the current motors and they use noticeably less fuel.


    As for pricing, the CLK55 is a total joke. It is by no means worth the 57k (uk) 70k (usd). I am in the market for a new car and I looked at the CLK55 and a E55. The interior of the CLK55 is lower rent than the C32 and the E55 is by far the car of choice.
    But if AMG has the SLK55 with a quad cam motor I see little to no reason to put an older 3-valve motor into the newly freshened C55. Being that the 3 valve motors made about 20hp less than the new DI gas motors I say the 5.5L motor should make around 20 hp more than the current 5.5L motor. This puts the car at the doorstep of 400bhp.

    Dec 21, 2003 11:11:07 PM

    Bilal
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    Bilal
    Loc: Manchester, UK
    Posts: 1533, Gallery
    Registered on: Jun 20, 2003
    Reply to: CynCarvin32

    Re: C55 AMG Estate

    I agree completely.


    Just one question...what about all those people who up until now and will continue to do so, (since not everyone follows MB like us) who bought CLK55's, with 367Hp do?

    What about the resale value?



    PS, 400hp for an AMG NA 5.5L motor? If Mercedes can squeeze out 272hp from a 3.5, forget ratio calculations (which would put out 430Hp for teh 5.5, lets say an all new 5.5V8 was amde from teh ground up carrying all this latest technology, wouldn't 450-500hp be more appropriate, or is a that a little too optimistic...

    Dec 21, 2003 11:11:07 PM

    Bilal
    Expert
    Bilal
    Loc: Manchester, UK
    Posts: 1533, Gallery
    Registered on: Jun 20, 2003
    Reply to: CynCarvin32

    Re: C55 AMG Estate

    I agree completely.


    Just one question...what about all those people who up until now and will continue to do so, (since not everyone follows MB like us) who bought CLK55's, with 367Hp do?

    What about the resale value?



    PS, 400hp for an AMG NA 5.5L motor? If Mercedes can squeeze out 272hp from a 3.5, forget ratio calculations (which would put out 430Hp for teh 5.5, lets say an all new 5.5V8 was amde from teh ground up carrying all this latest technology, wouldn't 450-500hp be more appropriate, or is a that a little too optimistic...

    Dec 22, 2003 11:43:23 PM

    CynCarvin32
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    CynCarvin32
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    Reply to: Bilal

    Re: C55 AMG Estate

    Well, 450-500 hp is possible but that seems like a very agressive motor for the W203. On a per liter basis I am sure AMG could get 450 hp from that motor and maybe even more but this would make the other AMG vehicles look relativly slower being that the bottom of the line AMG would be nearly as fast as the larger more expensive vehicles. With 440 hp the C55 would beat an E55 being that it weighs 200-300 lbs less. But when you realize that the C32 and SLK32 had the fastest 0-60 times for any AMG car for 1 year before the V8K motor came to market one wonders if th C55/SLK55 might be equal to the E55k and SL55k in performance. In 2002, the C32 and SLK32 were faster than the E55, S55, AND CL55 so maybe the C55/SLK55 well be faster than we think! We can always hope right? It is not matter of IF amg can make the NA V8 that powerful but instead a matter of WILL they. Two months from now and we shall know!

    Dec 22, 2003 11:43:23 PM

    CynCarvin32
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    CynCarvin32
    Loc:
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    Registered on: Aug 12, 2003
    Reply to: Bilal

    Re: C55 AMG Estate

    Well, 450-500 hp is possible but that seems like a very agressive motor for the W203. On a per liter basis I am sure AMG could get 450 hp from that motor and maybe even more but this would make the other AMG vehicles look relativly slower being that the bottom of the line AMG would be nearly as fast as the larger more expensive vehicles. With 440 hp the C55 would beat an E55 being that it weighs 200-300 lbs less. But when you realize that the C32 and SLK32 had the fastest 0-60 times for any AMG car for 1 year before the V8K motor came to market one wonders if th C55/SLK55 might be equal to the E55k and SL55k in performance. In 2002, the C32 and SLK32 were faster than the E55, S55, AND CL55 so maybe the C55/SLK55 well be faster than we think! We can always hope right? It is not matter of IF amg can make the NA V8 that powerful but instead a matter of WILL they. Two months from now and we shall know!

    Dec 23, 2003 11:19:02 AM

    Bilal
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    Bilal
    Loc: Manchester, UK
    Posts: 1533, Gallery
    Registered on: Jun 20, 2003
    Reply to: CynCarvin32

    Re: C55 AMG Estate

    Yeah, with the SL65 being strangled by the SLR, I doubt if more than 430hp will find its way into a C-class. Of course, if they do do this, then that will mean, the V8K models of teh future will get 550-600+hp?

    Who's to know, I think i'll let AMG surprise me!

    Dec 23, 2003 11:19:02 AM

    Bilal
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    Bilal
    Loc: Manchester, UK
    Posts: 1533, Gallery
    Registered on: Jun 20, 2003
    Reply to: CynCarvin32

    Re: C55 AMG Estate

    Yeah, with the SL65 being strangled by the SLR, I doubt if more than 430hp will find its way into a C-class. Of course, if they do do this, then that will mean, the V8K models of teh future will get 550-600+hp?

    Who's to know, I think i'll let AMG surprise me!
     
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