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Re: 997TT If Auto is Faster than 6Speed which would you take??
Quote:
BD 997 said:
Lets say at launch there will be only Tip and 6speed available and the numbers show Tip is faster which would you buy??
I voted "Just want to look" beacause I do not honestly believe that the tiptronic will be faster than the manual version.
The confusion is very likely based on confusing tiptronic and DSG/PDK. Of course DSK/PDK will be faster than manual. But never ever tiptronic
Re: 997TT If Auto is Faster than 6Speed which would you take
Quote:
P997C2S said:
I'll get a DSG or SMG when they have a chauffeur option to drive the car.
Right on the money. Not that I can afford a TT (yet), but I don't see myself ever buying a non manual car, unless its a family car or a saloon. Even if I track my cars, I'll start with manual to hone my skills before I need the "bump-up" to a dsg/smg/f1...
Re: 997TT If Auto is Faster than 6Speed which would you take
nota benna: perhaps there should be another poll limited only to prospective buyers (honor system guys)...I mean I voted on this poll, but I don't see myself buying a 997TT (lottery maybe?)...
I think the data might be a little less 6-spd friendly...
I think the data might be a little less 6-spd friendly...
Re: 997TT If Auto is Faster than 6Speed which would you take??
Quote:
MKSGR said:Quote:
BD 997 said:
Lets say at launch there will be only Tip and 6speed available and the numbers show Tip is faster which would you buy??
I voted "Just want to look" beacause I do not honestly believe that the tiptronic will be faster than the manual version.
The confusion is very likely based on confusing tiptronic and DSG/PDK. Of course DSK/PDK will be faster than manual. But never ever tiptronic
I completely agree. Plus the Doppel Kupplung would have to "wow" me with superior performance over the 6-speed manual before I would think of giving up the fun of the manual with its driver control over torque.
Re: 997TT If Auto is Faster than 6Speed which would you take
Quote:
P997C2S said:
I'll get a DSG or SMG when they have a chauffeur option to drive the car.
Nah, I like it because it's FAST! Wicked fast PURRRRFECT shifts. Your brain focusses on other aspects of driving; it's not like you go numb (as if having a driver). There's no imbalance in the curves, no leg and arm flapping and jerking. Can you imagine F1 cars with a manual anymore, NO? Pretty soon that's how I want to imagine Porsches.
Re: 997TT If Auto is Faster than 6Speed which would you take
Quote:
MMD said:Quote:
P997C2S said:
I'll get a DSG or SMG when they have a chauffeur option to drive the car.
Can you imagine F1 cars with a manual anymore, NO?
Of COURSE I CAN . I remember the days of Senna and Prost battling it out with the sticks. Driving in Monaco with a manual tranny, the sheer velocity of those 1000 hp beasts. Transmission failures for Senna causing him to only be able to use up to 4th gear. His skillful blocking comming into play in order to pull off the win.
F1 took a hit when this new technology came. It really shifted the paradigm of the sport, from a drivers competition to more of a constructors competition.
This is what driving used to be. The control of a vehicle, its harmony with the driver. His skill, conditioning and mental tenacity comming to fruition. This is what made the sport what it is.
It is rumored that in the '08 season there will be a return to the sticks. I can only hope this will happen.
Re: 997TT If Auto is Faster than 6Speed which would you take
Quote:
Hurst said:Quote:
MMD said:Quote:
P997C2S said:
I'll get a DSG or SMG when they have a chauffeur option to drive the car.
Can you imagine F1 cars with a manual anymore, NO?
Of COURSE I CAN . I remember the days of Senna and Prost battling it out with the sticks. Driving in Monaco with a manual tranny, the sheer velocity of those 1000 hp beasts. Transmission failures for Senna causing him to only be able to use up to 4th gear. His skillful blocking comming into play in order to pull off the win.
F1 took a hit when this new technology came. It really shifted the paradigm of the sport, from a drivers competition to more of a constructors competition.
This is what driving used to be. The control of a vehicle, its harmony with the driver. His skill, conditioning and mental tenacity comming to fruition. This is what made the sport what it is.
It is rumored that in the '08 season there will be a return to the sticks. I can only hope this will happen.
Okay, I guess I'm wrong again.
What I mean is the brain is free to work on other aspects of driving the car because the shifts are fast and the revs are exact and there's minimal body/arm/leg work. It's not like the brain of the driver normally dedicated to shifting takes a break and a nap. I think the DSG cars are faster because the driver has achieved a "higher level" awareness of what's going on. I don't think the increased performance stadard is due SOLELY to the DSG technology. I find it a THRILL to drive my SMG equipment. Got no fondless for manual tranny "technology" that's neen around for..., what? A hundred years?
Everybody should get to try DSG and SMG, and live with it a while if they haven't already.
Of course once introduced in street Porsches the Manual vs. DSG debate will go on like a smoldering tire fire for ten years. Fun though.
Jan 6, 2006 9:31:07 PM
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Carlos from Spain
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Re: 997TT If Auto is Faster than 6Speed which would you take
Always a manual, its part of the fun in "driving"! its the fun in the learning process, its the fun in the acomplisment of doing it, and its the fun in being more involved in the action... if a computerised system could steer the car faster or smoother than we can, would you guys preffer and automatic steering in your sportcar?
Re: 997TT If Auto is Faster than 6Speed which would you take??
Quote:
RC said:
I'm not into philosophy but into raw performance.
I voted Tiptronic, believe it or not. It is fun to be fast. How I achieve being fast, I don't care.
RC,
Given that Tip is an electronically controlled "manual override" tranny still based on a torque converter, unless the Tip 997TT had different ECU programming with less limitation for torque and power production vs. a manual 997TT, and since both cars would have the same VTG's, do you know how a Tip would be faster to 100kph than a manual-especially since with VTG, there might be no need to shift the manual to 2nd gear? Thanks.
Jan 6, 2006 9:43:12 PM
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Turbo Al
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Carlos from Spain
Re: 997TT If Auto is Faster than 6Speed which would you take
Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
if a computerised system could steer the car faster or smoother than we can, would you guys preffer and automatic steering in your sportcar?
I know some folks whose driving skills make me wish THEY had such technology in THEIR cars.
Re: 997TT If Auto is Faster than 6Speed which would you take??
Quote:
Turbo Al said:Quote:
RC said:
I'm not into philosophy but into raw performance.
I voted Tiptronic, believe it or not. It is fun to be fast. How I achieve being fast, I don't care.
RC,
Given that Tip is an electronically controlled "manual override" tranny still based on a torque converter, unless the Tip 997TT had different ECU programming with less limitation for torque and power production vs. a manual 997TT, and since both cars would have the same VTG's, do you know how a Tip would be faster to 100kph than a manual-especially since with VTG, there might be no need to shift the manual to 2nd gear? Thanks.
Absolutely correct
Plus: Porsche still uses the old 5 gear auto tranny from Mercedes Benz. And given the rumoured torque figure of the 997TT they will also continue to do so - other options are probably not available on the market... So the tiptronic will continue to be rather old technology.
Re: 997TT If Auto is Faster than 6Speed which would you take??
Quote:
Turbo Al said:
RC,
Given that Tip is an electronically controlled "manual override" tranny still based on a torque converter, unless the Tip 997TT had different ECU programming with less limitation for torque and power production vs. a manual 997TT, and since both cars would have the same VTG's, do you know how a Tip would be faster to 100kph than a manual-especially since with VTG, there might be no need to shift the manual to 2nd gear? Thanks.
Did I ever say that Tiptronic would be faster than manual?
But to provide a more satisfying reply: nobody knows if the Tiptronic used on the 997 Turbo will be the same "old" 5-speed Tiptronic used on the other 997 models and the 996. What if it is already the new Aisin generation with 6 speeds or even 7 speeds? What if the Tiptronic's black box communicates directly to the VTG chargers and the engine electronics, etc.? To be honest: I don't know.The only thing I heard is that there might be three gearbox choices, manual, PDK (or PDCS as it is rumored) and Tiptronic. Why three choices? Because some people may still want Tiptronic, especially in the USA. And because PDK is rumored to be almost at double the price tag of Tiptronic. Does it make sense? From a marketing point of view, definetely yes. Especially since nobody knows if PDK will be available from the start. We know for sure end of next month.
Jan 6, 2006 10:50:23 PM
- svtrader1
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Carlos from Spain
Re: 997TT If Auto is Faster than 6Speed which would you take
Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
if a computerised system could steer the car faster or smoother than we can, would you guys preffer and automatic steering in your sportcar?
A computerized system controlls your brakes. Do you prefer ABS or not?
Re: 997TT If Auto is Faster than 6Speed which would you take
Quote:
svtrader1 said:Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
if a computerised system could steer the car faster or smoother than we can, would you guys preffer and automatic steering in your sportcar?
A computerized system controlls your brakes. Do you prefer ABS or not?
Only in rainy, snowy or icy conditions.
Jan 6, 2006 11:08:04 PM
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Carlos from Spain
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Re: 997TT If Auto is Faster than 6Speed which would you take
Quote:
svtrader1 said:
A computerized system controlls your brakes. Do you prefer ABS or not?
No it doesn't. The driver is the one who graduates the braking unless slippage occurs, in that case for SAFETY reasons I do preffer the computer to work the ABS magic, but there is no such issue on a automatic gearbox vs manual gearbox, now is it?. Not the same case as a computer steering around the track or road for you, or shifting the gears for you.
When automatisation implies a significant safety advantage I preffer the computerisation, just like PSM does not control the throttle, but if the car slips out of control, the computer will cut the throttle (among other things)to bring the car under control. Thats a good thing.
When it means bypassing an integral part of the driving experience and fun but without gaining a significant safety advantage then no.
However auto's have their advantages. If you have a bad back, if you use the car for bumper to bumper comuting, if you can't drive a stick, if you can but not at the same level the car you drive requires in sporty driving, if you need to share the car with your wife who doesn not drive stick, if you will use the car for the track or competition predominately, if you are a poseur, if you feel like changing and giving auto a try, if, if, if, if you simply like it! period. But for me, "real driving" means using a clucth... but thats just me, to each his own.
Jan 7, 2006 12:49:13 AM
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nberry
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Carlos from Spain
Re: 997TT If Auto is Faster than 6Speed which would you take
Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
Always a manual, its part of the fun in "driving"! its the fun in the learning process, its the fun in the acomplisment of doing it, and its the fun in being more involved in the action... if a computerised system could steer the car faster or smoother than we can, would you guys preffer and automatic steering in your sportcar?
You will soon learn that competitively driving a DSG/f1 transmission is an art which requires considerable skill and knowledge of the car. In my mind, more so than a manual.
You can talk all you want about car involvement but at the end of the day it is performance of the car and driver. I could give a rats ass if in downshifting a manual I hit the proper revvs but end up slower around the track. I leave that for the losers.
Jan 7, 2006 2:11:12 AM
- svtrader1
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Carlos from Spain
Re: 997TT If Auto is Faster than 6Speed which would you take
Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:Quote:
svtrader1 said:
A computerized system controlls your brakes. Do you prefer ABS or not?
No it doesn't. The driver is the one who graduates the braking unless slippage occurs, in that case for SAFETY reasons I do preffer the computer to work the ABS magic, but there is no such issue on a automatic gearbox vs manual gearbox, now is it?. Not the same case as a computer steering around the track or road for you, or shifting the gears for you.
Try pounding the brakes on the track. Without ABS...you'll end up against the wall.
Re: 997TT If Auto is Faster than 6Speed which would you take
Quote:
svtrader1 said:Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:Quote:
svtrader1 said:
A computerized system controlls your brakes. Do you prefer ABS or not?
No it doesn't. The driver is the one who graduates the braking unless slippage occurs, in that case for SAFETY reasons I do preffer the computer to work the ABS magic, but there is no such issue on a automatic gearbox vs manual gearbox, now is it?. Not the same case as a computer steering around the track or road for you, or shifting the gears for you.
Try pounding the brakes on the track. Without ABS...you'll end up against the wall.
Just like missing a downshift on a highly tuned car will spin you out and hit you in a wall. It's about skill.
ABS as a safety feature is a must. for TRACKING PURPOSES, its an aid.
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