Crown

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nberry said:
You will soon learn that competitively driving a DSG/f1 transmission is an art which requires considerable skill and knowledge of the car. In my mind, more so than a manual.

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svtrader1 said:
Try pounding the brakes on the track. Without ABS...you'll end up against the wall.

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Carlos from Spain said:

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nberry said:
You will soon learn that competitively driving a DSG/f1 transmission is an art which requires considerable skill and knowledge of the car. In my mind, more so than a manual.

I think this is one of your best pearls of wisdom yet, "playstation" Nick... I may put it in my signature ... "more so than a manual." Seriouusly, since when flipping a paddle requires more skill or knowledge than modulationg a clutch, throttle pedal and stick all in coordination for the same result?

Nick, in competitively driving that is precisely the advantage of the auto; makes the shifting process much much easier therefore requiring less concentration and allowing more concentration to be focused of the rest of the driving, and also since its much easier there is less room for shifting errors that can cause some time loss. Therefore improving the overall driving performance, thats why they use it in Formula One, for example. I can't believe I'm explaining this...

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nberry said:
Until you have driven a sequential transmission and mastered it, you will never understand.

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RC said:
Since you're so fond of the sequential shifting, I have this message for you: the 997 Turbo PDK shifts around 25% faster than the F1 system on the F430. So how about selling your car now?

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nberry said:
Because you can get more out of a car using paddle technology. To do so requires more concentration on the finer points of DRIVING (this is the whole point isn't it?) the course as oppose to playing with the clutch, shifting and missing downshifts.

Until you have driven a sequential transmission and mastered it, you will never understand.

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SoCal Alan said:

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nberry said:
Until you have driven a sequential transmission and mastered it, you will never understand.

How do you master sequential transmission? All you do is press a button to shift, correct? What skills do you have to master?

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Carlos from Spain said:

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SoCal Alan said:

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nberry said:
Until you have driven a sequential transmission and mastered it, you will never understand.

How do you master sequential transmission? All you do is press a button to shift, correct? What skills do you have to master?

ahhh... much to learn you have my young padawan... you have to be able to remember wich button is for up and which is for down in order to master the art of paddle flipping... practice you must with the playstation before you can feel the force within you and become a master like "Sith Nick"...





Really... this is just too sub-real... its like a scooter driver saying that the automatic throttle in the scooter requires more knowledge and skill than the 6-speed manual of a sportbike

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Carlos from Spain said:

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nberry said:
Because you can get more out of a car using paddle technology. To do so requires more concentration on the finer points of DRIVING (this is the whole point isn't it?) the course as oppose to playing with the clutch, shifting and missing downshifts.

Until you have driven a sequential transmission and mastered it, you will never understand.

Nick, Nick, Nick... back to the basics with you huh? OK, the finer points of driving (balance control, braking modulation, throttle application, timing, etc) have nothiung to do with the paddle flipping gear change, the paddle flipping gearchange is just that, flipping a paddle with your fingures when you want to go up or down a gear, period. Its just that its so easy to do that you can concentrate on those finer points of driving more, but you have to do them just the same on the manual, uxcept its harder, more challenging to do so with a manual.

Somehow I'm getting the feeling the reason you in particular advocate the automatic transmissions in ALL cars and ALL drivers is because you can't drive a stick well enough and you wish them to dissapear so that no one and nothing reminds you of it, that woulr sort of level the playing field or shouild I say the image field

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nberry said:
What is more challenging; driving faster or driving slower?

If you can drive faster using a sequential tranny then does it not stand to reason it is more challenging?

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nberry said:Paddle use is an art and if done right, it is a symphony of magnificent driving performance.

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nberry said:
Contrast that with manual shifting movement and it is like comparing a user a of manual typewriter to a user of a PC. Of all people, Carlos with your computer skills, you should understand this concept. Tell me in your chiropractic practice do you forsake technology so as to be involved with your patients? Or is there a blending of treatment to achieve maximium results. What matters to you, optimal theraputic results or involvement with the patients using hand manipulations?

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nberry said:
Be that as it may, let me help you out just this once. Answer these to questions and hopefully you will have an epiphany.

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Carlos from Spain said:

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svtrader1 said:
Try pounding the brakes on the track. Without ABS...you'll end up against the wall.

Really? pleaseee ... last time I check my sportbike didn't have ABS and at the end of the straight I would have to "pound" on the brakes at 250km/h, only one wheel doing the braking, with a contact patch of a cigarrette box to play with and at the same time drop 2 gears while rev matching and trying to keep the rear from slidding from the engine brake...


But thats not the point, ABS is a safety feature and does not decide the braking point nor modulate the braking for you, unless slippage occurs. Not the same as a auto-tranny doing everything for you... a car with ABS is practically just as involving as a var without, which is certainly not the case with an auto-tranny.

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RC said:
Since you're so fond of the sequential shifting, I have this message for you: the 997 Turbo PDK shifts around 25% faster than the F1 system on the F430. So how about selling your car now?

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nberry said:
You will soon learn that competitively driving a DSG/f1 transmission is an art which requires considerable skill and knowledge of the car. In my mind, more so than a manual.

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nberry said:
You will soon learn that competitively driving a DSG/f1 transmission is an art which requires considerable skill and knowledge of the car. In my mind, more so than a manual.

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nberry said:You can talk all you want about car involvement but at the end of the day it is performance of the car and driver. I could give a rats ass if in downshifting a manual I hit the proper revvs but end up slower around the track. I leave that for the losers.

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Rossi said:
Nah, I would keep it for another year, then sell it for a profit...

... and buy two slightly used 997tt instead.


BTW, let's hope the PDK doesn't feel like an auto tranny.

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RC said:
But even IF you were right: where is your point? I never cared about resale value.

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Rossi said:
And where is YOUR point in telling Nick to sell his Spider?

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RC said:

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Rossi said:
And where is YOUR point in telling Nick to sell his Spider?

Since when is Nick listening to me?

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svtrader1 said:

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Carlos from Spain said:

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svtrader1 said:
Try pounding the brakes on the track. Without ABS...you'll end up against the wall.

Really? pleaseee ... last time I check my sportbike didn't have ABS and at the end of the straight I would have to "pound" on the brakes at 250km/h, only one wheel doing the braking, with a contact patch of a cigarrette box to play with and at the same time drop 2 gears while rev matching and trying to keep the rear from slidding from the engine brake...


But thats not the point, ABS is a safety feature and does not decide the braking point nor modulate the braking for you, unless slippage occurs. Not the same as a auto-tranny doing everything for you... a car with ABS is practically just as involving as a var without, which is certainly not the case with an auto-tranny.

Yes really! Try doing that with your car. Because you obviously haven't. ABS is a safety feature for the road, but on the track, it's an aid to better driving. It helps you push beyond your limits.

"ABS does not decide braking point nor modulate braking for you." But it sure does rein you in when you overshoot or underestimate a turn. Don't it? Ask any driving instructor if ABS helps you become a better driver?

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Carlos from Spain said:

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svtrader1 said:

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Carlos from Spain said:

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svtrader1 said:
Try pounding the brakes on the track. Without ABS...you'll end up against the wall.

Really? pleaseee ... last time I check my sportbike didn't have ABS and at the end of the straight I would have to "pound" on the brakes at 250km/h, only one wheel doing the braking, with a contact patch of a cigarrette box to play with and at the same time drop 2 gears while rev matching and trying to keep the rear from slidding from the engine brake...


But thats not the point, ABS is a safety feature and does not decide the braking point nor modulate the braking for you, unless slippage occurs. Not the same as a auto-tranny doing everything for you... a car with ABS is practically just as involving as a var without, which is certainly not the case with an auto-tranny.

Yes really! Try doing that with your car. Because you obviously haven't. ABS is a safety feature for the road, but on the track, it's an aid to better driving. It helps you push beyond your limits.

"ABS does not decide braking point nor modulate braking for you." But it sure does rein you in when you overshoot or underestimate a turn. Don't it? Ask any driving instructor if ABS helps you become a better driver?

Try telling us something we don't know ...

The example of the sportbike is that I have driven at the track without ABS on a 160HP/180Kg sportbike, which is much harder to do than a sportcar, and I haven't hit any wall like you claimed everybody would do without ABS


But thats not the point, I repeat again, you comparison of the ABS and the auto tranny is flawed because (1) the ABS does not do the braking for you, it just cuts off the braking when you loos traction. It does not choose the braking point for you, nor how much braking you do, nor when to lay off the brake, etc. The auto-tranny however does everything for you. The ABS barely takes any invoilvement out of the braking process because you shouldn't be having it activate all the time, yet the auto shifting does takle all the involvement of shifting out and is there all the time.

And (2) the ABS is a SAFETY feature, the auto-tranny is NOT, therefore the computerisation if the ABS is a welcomed feature, just like the PSM is for many (myself included). Its there for when things go wrong, unlike the auto tranny.

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svtrader1 said:

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Carlos from Spain said:

Quote:
svtrader1 said:

Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:

Quote:
svtrader1 said:
Try pounding the brakes on the track. Without ABS...you'll end up against the wall.

Really? pleaseee ... last time I check my sportbike didn't have ABS and at the end of the straight I would have to "pound" on the brakes at 250km/h, only one wheel doing the braking, with a contact patch of a cigarrette box to play with and at the same time drop 2 gears while rev matching and trying to keep the rear from slidding from the engine brake...


But thats not the point, ABS is a safety feature and does not decide the braking point nor modulate the braking for you, unless slippage occurs. Not the same as a auto-tranny doing everything for you... a car with ABS is practically just as involving as a var without, which is certainly not the case with an auto-tranny.

Yes really! Try doing that with your car. Because you obviously haven't. ABS is a safety feature for the road, but on the track, it's an aid to better driving. It helps you push beyond your limits.

"ABS does not decide braking point nor modulate braking for you." But it sure does rein you in when you overshoot or underestimate a turn. Don't it? Ask any driving instructor if ABS helps you become a better driver?

Try telling us something we don't know ...

The example of the sportbike is that I have driven at the track without ABS on a 160HP/180Kg sportbike, which is much harder to do than a sportcar, and I haven't hit any wall like you claimed everybody would do without ABS


But thats not the point, I repeat again, you comparison of the ABS and the auto tranny is flawed because (1) the ABS does not do the braking for you, it just cuts off the braking when you loos traction. It does not choose the braking point for you, nor how much braking you do, nor when to lay off the brake, etc. The auto-tranny however does everything for you. The ABS barely takes any invoilvement out of the braking process because you shouldn't be having it activate all the time, yet the auto shifting does takle all the involvement of shifting out and is there all the time.

And (2) the ABS is a SAFETY feature, the auto-tranny is NOT, therefore the computerisation if the ABS is a welcomed feature, just like the PSM is for many (myself included). Its there for when things go wrong, unlike the auto tranny.

We talking about apples not oranges, we're talking about cars not motrcycles. What you can on a bike is irrelevant. And we are certainy not talking about auto trannies.

Traction controll is a safety feature as well,so, by your logic you wouldn't have a problem with it either, right?

Also, you need to educate yourself about ABS. It doesn't cut off the brakes when you lose controll as you said.

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JMShrink said:
Here we go, yet another thread that should be entitled, "I'm more of a purist than you." So many talk about "the challenge," but they're driving a 997 which is actually(with PSM among other things) a very forgiving sports car! I guess there's certainly a limit to that "challenge" that so many say they want.

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svtrader1 said:
We talking about apples not oranges, we're talking about cars not motrcycles. What you can on a bike is irrelevant. And we are certainy not talking about auto trannies.

Traction controll is a safety feature as well,so, by your logic you wouldn't have a problem with it either, right?

Also, you need to educate yourself about ABS. It doesn't cut off the brakes when you lose controll as you said.

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Carlos from Spain said:

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JMShrink said:
Here we go, yet another thread that should be entitled, "I'm more of a purist than you." So many talk about "the challenge," but they're driving a 997 which is actually(with PSM among other things) a very forgiving sports car! I guess there's certainly a limit to that "challenge" that so many say they want.

Leave the demagogy at home, nobody is talking about I'm more purist. We are talking about what tranny is more involving or challenging, period. If you knew me you'd also know I'm no "purist" either.

The limit to the challenge I want is the 1000cc sportbike I ride which is more "challenging" than any street car made, so spare me your guesses...

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JMShrink said:
If that's what you think this thread has been about I won't try to change your mind. Go ahead and continue with the denigrating comments. I hope it makes you feel better.