Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - 997TT If Auto is Faster than 6Speed which would you take?? - Page3

Jan 8, 2006 4:27:07 PM

CF: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Florida , United States; Posts: 1113, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 30, 2003; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: 997TT If Auto is Faster than 6Speed which would you take

Manual vs PDK

I want whatever makes me and the car faster on track and street.

PSM,PDK bring it on

If I wanted old school I would buy an oldtimer 911 with no electronics at all

Let's have this discussion when we have tried the PDK

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Jan 8, 2006 5:03:11 PM

JMShrink: Pilot; Loc: California; Posts: 395, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 12, 2005; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: 997TT If Auto is Faster than 6Speed which would you take

Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
Quote:
JMShrink said:
If that's what you think this thread has been about I won't try to change your mind. Go ahead and continue with the denigrating comments. I hope it makes you feel better.

Your are obviously new, I suggest you use the search function and look up a bit about nick, just so you know whats going on here, and a better understanding of what we are talking about and what is behind it.

I may be new to the "forum," but actually I do know what's going on...group dynamics.

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Jan 8, 2006 5:11:41 PM

throt: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 6078, Gallery; Registered on: May 9, 2005; Reply to: JMShrink

Re: 997TT If Auto is Faster than 6Speed which would you take

JM , is that a serious post or a joke one ,, it sure did tickle me ..

.

throt..

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Jan 8, 2006 5:18:00 PM

SoCal Alan: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Orange County , United States; Posts: 7268, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 6, 2004; Reply to: JMShrink

Re: 997TT If Auto is Faster than 6Speed which would you take

Quote:
JMShrink said:
I may be new to the "forum," but actually I do know what's going on...group dynamics.

If you are a shrink, can you analyze nberry for us and tell us what's going on there? He has 1600 posts so you have a lot of work ahead of you. Thanks.

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Jan 8, 2006 5:59:12 PM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: JMShrink

Re: 997TT If Auto is Faster than 6Speed which would you take

Quote:
JMShrink said:
Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
Quote:
JMShrink said:
If that's what you think this thread has been about I won't try to change your mind. Go ahead and continue with the denigrating comments. I hope it makes you feel better.

Your are obviously new, I suggest you use the search function and look up a bit about nick, just so you know whats going on here, and a better understanding of what we are talking about and what is behind it.

I may be new to the "forum," but actually I do know what's going on...group dynamics.

JMShrink,

The "forum-fights" that Nick starts are kind of a rennteam tradition - this isn't just normal group dynamics.

You really should take Carlos' advice and do a search of Nick's past posts. They're pretty repetitive, so it won't take too long for you to get the picture. Might even be an interesting case study for you.

Hippocratic oath doesn't apply to internet forums, so you could even post your diagnosis.

(Oops! Just noticed SoCal Alan had the same idea.

)

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Jan 8, 2006 6:01:08 PM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: JMShrink

Re: 997TT If Auto is Faster than 6Speed which would you take

Quote:
JMShrink said:
Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
Quote:
JMShrink said:
If that's what you think this thread has been about I won't try to change your mind. Go ahead and continue with the denigrating comments. I hope it makes you feel better.

Your are obviously new, I suggest you use the search function and look up a bit about nick, just so you know whats going on here, and a better understanding of what we are talking about and what is behind it.

I may be new to the "forum," but actually I do know what's going on...group dynamics.

Nah. It's just that we usually attack the guy who is obviously provoking us. Wanna call it group dynamics? Go on right ahead. However, Carlos in all probability has tons more experience than you and, instead of flaming him, you should actually try to learn something from him. Like I stated on one previous occasion: "the larger this board gets, the closer it gets to being flushed down the drain by scores of newly-joined imbeciles" (not putting you in this category just yet, so we are clear). Show some respect towards long-time members, instead of attacking them (yes, even Nick counts

).

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Jan 8, 2006 7:05:33 PM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21152, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: CF

Re: 997TT If Auto is Faster than 6Speed which would you take

Quote:
CF said:
I want whatever makes me and the car faster on track and street.

Then the answer for that would be the PDK, no argument there, heck! given enough power (like a turbo for example) most people are probably faster in a slow, heavy, and power robbing torque-converter automatic than in a manual! so imagine the PDK...

And now the PDK will bring automatics it to a new level. BUT not everyone wants the same thing. Some people, unless its of a significant safety benefit (like electronic aids for example), prefer the pleasure and involvement of the manual gearbox over the tenth's of a second advantage they may get from a cluthless secuential. To each his own, both are perfectly respectable, the good part is we can all choose.

Even though I prefer a manual in my onw car, I'm very glad Porsche is finnaly coming out with a secuential so that those that prefer auto, do not have to give up any sportines or performance at the same time. Presumable, unlike the Tiptronic torque converter, the dual-clutch sequential should be roughly same weight as a manual, same number of gears, and even faster upshift times.

But all hell broke loose when that special "someone" made his divine intervention and said that autos require more knowledge and mastering than a manual!

which is a different matter altogether

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Jan 8, 2006 7:26:14 PM

JimFlat6: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Cave , United States; Posts: 8633, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 25, 2004; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: 997TT If Auto is Faster than 6Speed which would you take

Isnt the "new" PDK just a more advanced version of Porsche old school "Sportomatic" manual?

The Sportomatic gearbox was a option from '69 to 1979.

Its first competition use was in the snowy '69 Monte Carlo Rallye wich a 911T Sportomatic won.

Basically it was a manual 4spd gearbox with a vacumn server for the clutch and a torque converter. There was no clutch pedal. You simply shifted it like any manual sans clutch pedal. It had no auto shift feature. You decided when to slip into another gear, grabbed the gearshift, shift, and released! Simple!

Even VW Beetles used to offer them!

So much for the big "breakthrough" !

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Jan 8, 2006 7:44:52 PM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: JimFlat6

Re: 997TT If Auto is Faster than 6Speed which would you take

Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
Isnt the "new" PDK just a more advanced version of Porsche old school "Sportomatic" manual?

No it isn't, so the rest of your post was redundant.

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Jan 8, 2006 7:58:54 PM

JimFlat6: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Cave , United States; Posts: 8633, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 25, 2004; Reply to: fritz

Re: 997TT If Auto is Faster than 6Speed which would you take

Quote:
fritz said:
Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
Isnt the "new" PDK just a more advanced version of Porsche old school "Sportomatic" manual?

No it isn't, so the rest of your post was redundant.

Fritz, So you are saying that Porsches new PDK system will also not include a gearshift lever that you can use to select gears like you would with a normal manual transmission?

So you say it will only have shifter paddles?

I think it will have both.

Obviously PDK will be more advanced than Sportomatic was,
but the concepts of the two are very close.

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Jan 8, 2006 8:40:59 PM

JMShrink: Pilot; Loc: California; Posts: 395, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 12, 2005; Reply to: throt

Re: 997TT If Auto is Faster than 6Speed which would you take

Quote:
throt said:
JM , is that a serious post or a joke one ,, it sure did tickle me .. .

throt..

It's all in good fun throt.

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Jan 8, 2006 8:46:28 PM

JMShrink: Pilot; Loc: California; Posts: 395, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 12, 2005; Reply to: SoCal Alan

Re: 997TT If Auto is Faster than 6Speed which would you take

Quote:
SoCal Alan said:
Quote:
JMShrink said:
I may be new to the "forum," but actually I do know what's going on...group dynamics.

If you are a shrink, can you analyze nberry for us and tell us what's going on there? He has 1600 posts so you have a lot of work ahead of you. Thanks.

Wouldn't surprise me if nick plain just enjoys pushing buttons...including ours!

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Jan 8, 2006 8:48:50 PM

JMShrink: Pilot; Loc: California; Posts: 395, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 12, 2005; Reply to: fritz

Re: 997TT If Auto is Faster than 6Speed which would you take

Quote:
fritz said:
Quote:
JMShrink said:
Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
Quote:
JMShrink said:
If that's what you think this thread has been about I won't try to change your mind. Go ahead and continue with the denigrating comments. I hope it makes you feel better.

Your are obviously new, I suggest you use the search function and look up a bit about nick, just so you know whats going on here, and a better understanding of what we are talking about and what is behind it.

I may be new to the "forum," but actually I do know what's going on...group dynamics.

JMShrink,

The "forum-fights" that Nick starts are kind of a rennteam tradition - this isn't just normal group dynamics.

You really should take Carlos' advice and do a search of Nick's past posts. They're pretty repetitive, so it won't take too long for you to get the picture. Might even be an interesting case study for you.

Hippocratic oath doesn't apply to internet forums, so you could even post your diagnosis. (Oops! Just noticed SoCal Alan had the same idea. )

Who said anything about "normal?"

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Jan 8, 2006 8:56:13 PM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: JimFlat6

Re: 997TT If Auto is Faster than 6Speed which would you take

Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
Quote:
fritz said:
Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
Isnt the "new" PDK just a more advanced version of Porsche old school "Sportomatic" manual?

No it isn't, so the rest of your post was redundant.

Fritz, So you are saying that Porsches new PDK system will also not include a gearshift lever that you can use to select gears like you would with a normal manual transmission?

So you say it will only have shifter paddles?

I think it will have both.

Obviously PDK will be more advanced than Sportomatic was,
but the concepts of the two are very close.

Actually the technology is completely different.

PDCS is not just an automated manual gear-box. PDSC (as other DSG systems) pre-selects a new gear while still being in another gear and than (after pre-selection has been completed) shifts to the pre-selected gear without really interrupting the power transmission.

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Jan 8, 2006 8:58:52 PM

JMShrink: Pilot; Loc: California; Posts: 395, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 12, 2005; Reply to: Crash

Re: 997TT If Auto is Faster than 6Speed which would you take

Quote:
Crash said:
Quote:
JMShrink said:
Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
Quote:
JMShrink said:
If that's what you think this thread has been about I won't try to change your mind. Go ahead and continue with the denigrating comments. I hope it makes you feel better.

Your are obviously new, I suggest you use the search function and look up a bit about nick, just so you know whats going on here, and a better understanding of what we are talking about and what is behind it.

I may be new to the "forum," but actually I do know what's going on...group dynamics.

Nah. It's just that we usually attack the guy who is obviously provoking us. Wanna call it group dynamics? Go on right ahead. However, Carlos in all probability has tons more experience than you and, instead of flaming him, you should actually try to learn something from him. Like I stated on one previous occasion: "the larger this board gets, the closer it gets to being flushed down the drain by scores of newly-joined imbeciles" (not putting you in this category just yet, so we are clear). Show some respect towards long-time members, instead of attacking them (yes, even Nick counts ).

I'm sure that there are things that Carlos has more experience than I and vice versa. My intention is not to flame, but to provoke thought and have fun. We all certainly can learn from one another. I certainly respect Carlos' passion. Respect is a two way street. I appreciate your comments.

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Jan 8, 2006 9:02:18 PM

JMShrink: Pilot; Loc: California; Posts: 395, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 12, 2005; Reply to: JMShrink

Re: 997TT If Auto is Faster than 6Speed which would you take

I guess it would be appropriate to answer the initial question, "If Auto is Faster than 6Speed which would you take?"...I'd take BOTH!

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Jan 8, 2006 9:10:23 PM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21152, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: JMShrink

Re: 997TT If Auto is Faster than 6Speed which would you take

Quote:
JMShrink said:
I guess it would be appropriate to answer the initial question, "If Auto is Faster than 6Speed which would you take?"...I'd take BOTH!

Now there is an idea! how about a PDK but with a clutch pedal when you want it and a mode that would override automatic hydrolic atenuators and you could use the clutch pedal... that would cover the best of both worlds, I would opt for it

manual and automatic... OK I'll stop dreaming now

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Jan 8, 2006 9:12:39 PM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: JMShrink

Re: 997TT If Auto is Faster than 6Speed which would you take

Quote:
JMShrink said:
Wouldn't surprise me if nick plain just enjoys pushing buttons...including ours!

I'm not a shrink, but I'd already come to that conclusion a long time ago.

Things just tend to get a little more intense when Newbies come along who don't know the background, pick up on one of Nick's "contributions", and start their own post with "I tend to agree with Nick.......".

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Jan 8, 2006 9:16:12 PM

JMShrink: Pilot; Loc: California; Posts: 395, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 12, 2005; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: 997TT If Auto is Faster than 6Speed which would you take

Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
Quote:
JMShrink said:
I guess it would be appropriate to answer the initial question, "If Auto is Faster than 6Speed which would you take?"...I'd take BOTH!

Now there is an idea! how about a PDK but with a clutch pedal when you want it and a mode that would override automatic hydrolic atenuators and you could use the clutch pedal... that would cover the best of both worlds, I would opt for it manual and automatic... OK I'll stop dreaming now

Carlos, we just may become buddies afterall.

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Jan 8, 2006 9:22:50 PM

Rossi: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Home , Germany; Posts: 12681, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: JMShrink

Re: 997TT If Auto is Faster than 6Speed which would you take

Quote:
JMShrink said:
Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
Quote:
JMShrink said:
I guess it would be appropriate to answer the initial question, "If Auto is Faster than 6Speed which would you take?"...I'd take BOTH!

Now there is an idea! how about a PDK but with a clutch pedal when you want it and a mode that would override automatic hydrolic atenuators and you could use the clutch pedal... that would cover the best of both worlds, I would opt for it manual and automatic... OK I'll stop dreaming now

Carlos, we just may become buddies afterall.

So let us pop the corks!

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Jan 8, 2006 9:25:04 PM

JMShrink: Pilot; Loc: California; Posts: 395, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 12, 2005; Reply to: fritz

Re: 997TT If Auto is Faster than 6Speed which would you take

Quote:
fritz said:
Quote:
JMShrink said:
Wouldn't surprise me if nick plain just enjoys pushing buttons...including ours!

I'm not a shrink, but I'd already come to that conclusion a long time ago.

Things just tend to get a little more intense when Newbies come along who don't know the background, pick up on one of Nick's "contributions", and start their own post with "I tend to agree with Nick.......".

We all know that a standard manual transmission is the more challenging trans to operate than pushing buttons. My intention earlier was to look at the bigger picture, that the current 997 is actually a forgiving sports car, thus, limiting some of the challenges. I don't mind this at all, as I have a 997 on order as we speak.

BTW, I never said that I agree with nick.

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Jan 8, 2006 9:29:13 PM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: JimFlat6

Re: 997TT If Auto is Faster than 6Speed which would you take

Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
Quote:
fritz said:
Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
Isnt the "new" PDK just a more advanced version of Porsche old school "Sportomatic" manual?

No it isn't, so the rest of your post was redundant.

Fritz, So you are saying that Porsches new PDK system will also not include a gearshift lever that you can use to select gears like you would with a normal manual transmission?

So you say it will only have shifter paddles?

I think it will have both.

Obviously PDK will be more advanced than Sportomatic was,
but the concepts of the two are very close.

The concepts are completely different. Sportomatic was just a conventional manual-shift transmission with an automated clutch actuated by a sensor on the gear lever.

The PDK transmission has - as the name says - two clutches. Each of the clutches is connected to one of two concentric drive shafts. This allows two gearsets to be "engaged" at the same time, but the one connected to the closed clutch will be the active one.

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Jan 8, 2006 9:33:41 PM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: JMShrink

Re: 997TT If Auto is Faster than 6Speed which would you take

Quote:
JMShrink said:
BTW, I never said that I agree with nick.

Just as well, otherwise I'd have to recommend that you consulted a shrink!

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Jan 8, 2006 9:47:13 PM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21152, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: JMShrink

Re: 997TT If Auto is Faster than 6Speed which would you take

Quote:
JMShrink said:
Carlos, we just may become buddies afterall.

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Jan 8, 2006 9:49:02 PM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21152, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: Rossi

Re: 997TT If Auto is Faster than 6Speed which would you take

Quote:
Rossi said:
So let us pop the corks!

I'll bring some french wine!

BTW, thats a great looking signature

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Jan 8, 2006 9:49:14 PM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21152, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: fritz

Re: 997TT If Auto is Faster than 6Speed which would you take

Quote:
fritz said:
Quote:
JMShrink said:
BTW, I never said that I agree with nick.

Just as well, otherwise I'd have to recommend that you consulted a shrink!

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Jan 8, 2006 9:54:56 PM

JMShrink: Pilot; Loc: California; Posts: 395, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 12, 2005; Reply to: fritz

Re: 997TT If Auto is Faster than 6Speed which would you take

Quote:
fritz said:
Quote:
JMShrink said:
BTW, I never said that I agree with nick.

Just as well, otherwise I'd have to recommend that you consulted a shrink!

I'm touched by your concern for my wellfare.

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Jan 8, 2006 9:59:16 PM

JMShrink: Pilot; Loc: California; Posts: 395, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 12, 2005; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: 997TT If Auto is Faster than 6Speed which would you take

Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
Quote:
Rossi said:
So let us pop the corks!

I'll bring some french wine!

BTW, thats a great looking signature

Sounds like a party!

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Jan 9, 2006 12:28:54 AM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59590, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: JMShrink

Re: 997TT If Auto is Faster than 6Speed which would you take

NO Driving AND Drinking, guys! Just don't forget!

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Jan 9, 2006 2:20:42 AM

Turbo Al: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Rochester, New York , United States; Posts: 2531, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 3, 2005; Reply to: JMShrink

Re: 997TT If Auto is Faster than 6Speed which would you take

Quote:
JMShrink said:
I have a 997 on order as we speak.

What about a deposit with your dealer for a 997TT?

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