Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: Update on bad paint and Bondo on my new 997s - Page1

Jan 1, 2006 10:05:55 PM

chuck: Newbie; Loc: Illinois, USA; Posts: 40, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 16, 2005

Update on bad paint and Bondo on my new 997s

Well, after being screwed around for 7 months by PCNA, I took my car to their recommended Body Shop for a look-see at my paint and hard top.

I came away with confirmation that there is Bondo in the top and that it has been redone.
I also came away with the fact that the paint on the entire car is full of dirt, pinholes, lifting, orange peel, sanding scratches and clouding.
The factory tried to cover it up with a high speed buffer and burned the paint in several places.

The verdict....Thhe whole car will need to be repainted and the top is still yet to be determined.

Bottom line....The estimate to "FIX" my new car and make it like new starts at $6100 and could go as high as $9600 if the skin on the hard top is damaged under the "Bondo"

I'm still fighting with PCNA over this car...
They still think it's OK to just repaint the car under warranty.
They don't seem to find a "BIG" problem with selling a car that has prior hidden damage.
Even if that damage is close to $10,000.00

What a great Company...

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Jan 1, 2006 10:13:42 PM

Stephenkng: Pilot; Loc: S.F., CA , United States; Posts: 356, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 5, 2005; Reply to: chuck

Re: Update on bad paint and Bondo on my new 997s

Chuck, how did you find out those "defective"???

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Jan 1, 2006 10:18:39 PM

chuck: Newbie; Loc: Illinois, USA; Posts: 40, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 16, 2005; Reply to: Stephenkng

Re: Update on bad paint and Bondo on my new 997s

While cleaning the car I found the lifting of the Bondo and started taking a closer look at the rest of the car.

!st it was lifting, then sander marks, then dirt and small craters, then clouding and on and on...

The closer I started looking the worst it became.

Now as the car is starting to age the damage is getting greater and easier to see.

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Jan 1, 2006 10:19:38 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: Stephenkng

Re: Update on bad paint and Bondo on my new 997s

What a joke. Makes me sick to hear about it. I'd just keep shoving their overt and repetitive promise of "Porsche Excellence" in their faces and "threaten," unless you get total satisfaction, to make every detail of their failure to achieve "Excellence" known to a wide audience of Porsche enthusiasts on the internet.

Oh, if they plan to repaint the car they MUST remove all the trim, masking it off is NOT permitted: it's simply NOT excellent.

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Jan 1, 2006 10:37:53 PM

Stephenkng: Pilot; Loc: S.F., CA , United States; Posts: 356, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 5, 2005; Reply to: MMD

Re: Update on bad paint and Bondo on my new 997s

If they are going to re-print the car, make sure they sand down all the old print and re-do premier, new print, and clear clear coat. You do not want the old print under the new one. Good luck and keep us updated.

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Jan 1, 2006 11:08:41 PM

throt: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 6078, Gallery; Registered on: May 9, 2005; Reply to: chuck

Re: Update on bad paint and Bondo on my new 997s

Quote:
chuck said:
Well, after being screwed around for 7 months by PCNA, I took my car to their recommended Body Shop for a look-see at my paint and hard top.

What happened at the start when you ask for a full replacement ,, I take it you did ..

throt..

PS EDIT ADD :: Have you guys a cooling off period after taking delivery ( can you cancel and take back if vehicle on finance )

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Jan 2, 2006 12:10:20 AM

raffi: Junior; Loc: los angeles; Posts: 126, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 5, 2005; Reply to: throt

Re: Update on bad paint and Bondo on my new 997s

On second day of owning my brand new 997 I took it to a clear bra installer who noticed small paint defects on front bumper. Took it back to salesman who denied it and said he didnt notice any defect...
Took it to service people who thought the front and rear bumpers didnt match the rest of car (arctic silver). I made them look in the history of transport of the car and they said no sign of damage or repaint and those must be factory flaws, they said the best they could do was just repaint the bumper. What would you guys have done in this case?
I just had them write out that these flaws were from the original factory paint job. I could use this for future resale or maybe if I decide to have it repaired later under warranty.
I know every state must be different but there is a certain percentage that porsche needs to make you aware of for prior damage to brand new car I think like 1-2K,
So I think chuck definitely has a good case, I would definitely not repaint the car, I would rather sell it back to them and let them try to sell a repainted car while you enjoy your new perfect car...

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Jan 2, 2006 12:26:24 AM

peecarfan: Junior; Loc: usa; Posts: 149, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 25, 2004; Reply to: raffi

Re: Update on bad paint and Bondo on my new 997s

http://www.lemonlaw.com
no affliation, but these guys are good at what they do.

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Jan 2, 2006 12:30:35 AM

throt: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 6078, Gallery; Registered on: May 9, 2005; Reply to: raffi

Re: Update on bad paint and Bondo on my new 997s

Raffi not as bad as chucks but still not good enough , its all down to the individual really . I went to pick up a brand new Mits Shogun about a year back and on pick up it had some bad marks on the front bumper they were grazes not paint defects . I immediately cancel the vehicle and demanded my holding deposit back , this they gave me back but they were pretty shocked . I stated to them that if there like this with a simple PDI , what are they going to be like if I have any teething problems ,, no thanks ..

Raffi at least state to them you want it perfect , good luck bud ..

throt...

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Jan 2, 2006 2:02:47 AM

OCEAN: Expert; Loc: US; Posts: 1334, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 28, 2004; Reply to: throt

Re: Update on bad paint and Bondo on my new 997s

When through the same thing on a 993C4 cab in 98 one of the last ones , it had a bad paint problem called fish eyes . PCNA wanted to paint it and admitted it was defective and the car was not prepared right before they painted it . I did not want a brand new car that was going to be repainted but they would not refund the money or give me a new car only paint it . I fought with them for a long time and made a deal with them that I would get my next Porsche at dealers cost but that was it . I found out while going through that seems many cars are damaged at the factory and they fix them or try to fix them before they send them here and do not have to tell the owner . My friend who works at the Porsche factory told me cars get damaged all the time at the factory for one reason or another and they repair them and send them on their way . He also said they get damaged on the boat many times also and have a Porsche body shop right near the port where the cars are kept when they come off the boat , What happened to you is not that unusual it is just you caught them .

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Jan 2, 2006 4:22:40 AM

raffi: Junior; Loc: los angeles; Posts: 126, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 5, 2005; Reply to: OCEAN

Re: Update on bad paint and Bondo on my new 997s

thanks ocean and throt, that is exactly how they explained it to me ocean...
I would much rather have "flawed factory paint" if indeed that is what it is than a repainted bumper...
I have just purchased the speedart/fvd bumper so it doesnt really matter anymore, but the way I was treated by the dealer was ridiculous.

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Jan 2, 2006 4:31:59 AM

Stephenkng: Pilot; Loc: S.F., CA , United States; Posts: 356, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 5, 2005; Reply to: raffi

Re: Update on bad paint and Bondo on my new 997s

raffi, which dealer did you get you car from??

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Jan 2, 2006 5:57:57 AM

raffi: Junior; Loc: los angeles; Posts: 126, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 5, 2005; Reply to: Stephenkng

Re: Update on bad paint and Bondo on my new 997s

BH porsche

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Jan 2, 2006 6:12:19 AM

cwb: Newbie; Loc: USA , United States; Posts: 19, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 28, 2005; Reply to: OCEAN

Re: Update on bad paint and Bondo on my new 997s

Unfortunately any paint job will not be as good as the factory since they can't take the entire car apart and bake the body at high heat like the factory.

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Jan 2, 2006 9:28:34 AM

U Boat Commander: Veteran; Loc: Los Angeles, CA; Posts: 1250, Gallery; Registered on: May 8, 2004; Reply to: cwb

Re: Update on bad paint and Bondo on my new 997s

Raffi: That does not suprise me that your dealer was BH Porsche. As I've said on this board before, they are the worst. I had many problems with my 996 that I bought from BH Porsche and they treated me like crap. I will never buy another car from them and I bought my 997S from Pacific Porsche.

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Jan 2, 2006 9:48:58 AM

Mark_A: Newbie; Loc: WA; Posts: 10, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 4, 2005; Reply to: cwb

Re: Update on bad paint and Bondo on my new 997s

Chuck or raffi, would a more careful inspection of the car before taking delivery have enabled you to spot the paint problem? I'm wondering on a going forward basis what steps can be taken to prevent that type of problem.

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Jan 2, 2006 10:29:29 AM

throt: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 6078, Gallery; Registered on: May 9, 2005; Reply to: Mark_A

Re: Update on bad paint and Bondo on my new 997s

Quote:
Mark_A said:
Chuck or raffi, would a more careful inspection of the car before taking delivery have enabled you to spot the paint problem? I'm wondering on a going forward basis what steps can be taken to prevent that type of problem.

Main step is on pick up , firstly you must say to the salesman you want to see the car BEFORE you sit down and part with any cash or sign paperwork this way the deals not complete . So many people just walk in sign and pay straight away then they look , then if theres a problem Mr Salesman then says "take the car now and we will talk later after I talk to my manager" BS , do not drive off the lot unless your sure 100% happy with everything because as soon as you do its classed as a "used vehicle" ..

Good Luck Mark ..

throt..

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Jan 2, 2006 3:10:10 PM

69bossnine: Rennteam Pro; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 2028, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2005; Reply to: throt

Re: Update on bad paint and Bondo on my new 997s

Quote:
throt said:
Quote:
Mark_A said:
Chuck or raffi, would a more careful inspection of the car before taking delivery have enabled you to spot the paint problem? I'm wondering on a going forward basis what steps can be taken to prevent that type of problem.

Main step is on pick up , firstly you must say to the salesman you want to see the car BEFORE you sit down and part with any cash or sign paperwork this way the deals not complete . So many people just walk in sign and pay straight away then they look , then if theres a problem Mr Salesman then says "take the car now and we will talk later after I talk to my manager" BS , do not drive off the lot unless your sure 100% happy with everything because as soon as you do its classed as a "used vehicle" ..

Good Luck Mark ..

throt..

Yes, that's where you've really gotta look over the car with a fine-tooth comb, crawl around on the ground looking up at it, getting every angle....

This situation is bad, very bad, and I feel for ya. There's just no good solution here. The horse is out of the barn, the genie is out of the bottle. No matter what happens now, you're never going to be where most of the rest of us are. Satisfied owners with really nice and un-dorked-with factory paint.

This falls under the heading of "sh** happens in life", and my best advice to you, is to get past it as unscathed as you possibly can. Were it me, I would look for the best way to divorce myself from the car. Just make a clean break, and start over. I would not live with a repaint, no matter how well-done. I would always have this "uneasy" feeling with the car, wondering when some of the prep-work would start lifting or shrinking through the outer layers of paint, etc.etc... It's that unknown stuff, that could surface to haunt you next month, or next year, or maybe never, that would drive me nuts. You bought a new car. If Porsche thinks a total re-spray is "no problem", then they should have "no problem" in making it THEIR problem, allowing you to trade the car back, with a fair agreement on the mileage and time you've enjoyed the car. I'd call their bluff that way. When they try to tell you it's just no big deal, you tell them "if it's no biggie, then why don't YOU buy my car?". Somewhere, there's gotta be a compromise that is fair, or as fair as you can reasonably expect. You won't come out whole, they won't come out whole. But sometimes you've gotta just get out and start over with things. You could also fight until you've made 6 months of your life miserable. But what price do you place on your misery?? I value my happiness, and would suggest following the quickest-yet-most-reasonable path to happiness.

There is no such thing as a "PERFECT" paint job. Every car that rolls off the assembly line has paint that's a bit better, or a bit worse, in detail and finish consistency. I'm enough of a nit-picker that when I car-shop, I'm always looking for the car that's not just the colors and options I want, but also one that's on the high-end of the scale with regard to fit and finish, compared to other examples of the same model. There is definitely a "range", and luckily, my black 997S came in on the high end of Porsche's range. Man, was I nervous up to the point the car arrived, that I would be the poor sucker that got a car with a Monday paint job, or that got damaged in transit. So I got lucky, and there's always some luck in the draw when it comes to new cars.

You are about as unlucky as it gets. I say "fold", and have the dealer deal you a fresh hand of cards.

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Jan 2, 2006 3:59:28 PM

throt: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 6078, Gallery; Registered on: May 9, 2005; Reply to: 69bossnine

Re: Update on bad paint and Bondo on my new 997s

Quote:
69bossnine said:
. Man, was I nervous up to the point the car arrived,

Yes me to , on pick ups I get the damn butterflys because its hard to get a near on 100% right car , specially if your picky...

throt..

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Jan 2, 2006 4:35:37 PM

connoisseur: Senior; Loc: Nebraska; Posts: 752, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 30, 2005; Reply to: throt

Re: Update on bad paint and Bondo on my new 997s

One way to circumvent some of the problems is for your attorney to draft a sales agreement that is signed by both seller and purchaser at time of initial deposit. Such an agreement would outline duties and responsibilities of both parties. Be sure that stipulations are fair to both parties, as fairness cuts both ways. If they balk at signing simply put the money back in your pocket and keep walking. As for your unhappiness with BH Porsche, be sure that PCNA knows of your disappointment LOUD & CLEAR! Keep copies of all correspondence and have proof of their receipt.

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Jan 2, 2006 4:51:14 PM

crg: Junior; Loc: sub. chicago; Posts: 75, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 24, 2005; Reply to: chuck

Re: Update on bad paint and Bondo on my new 997s

Chuck
SORRY to hear about your troubles. I am getting ready to order A new 911 from a chicagoland dealer .Was (is) your dealer sympathetic or doing anything to correct your situation or are you left dealing with Porsche on your own?Would they buy the car back from you? How can the rest of us learn from your nightmare? What dealer did you buy your car from? Good luck. crg

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Jan 2, 2006 4:55:36 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: connoisseur

Re: Update on bad paint and Bondo on my new 997s

A bit of perspective might help.

We spent about us$100K on these cars. The second we leave the showroom they're worth much less. It's not an investment by anymeans.

I SHOULD sell my car tomorrow because in about 4-six months it's going to be equal to what your f'ed up car is worth now. (sorry for being blunt and possibly wrong).

My point: you have a car which is "artifically depreciated." Not very different from MY car which is "naturally" depreciated.

We are probably very particcccccccular on these boards. The new owner/prospective buyer of your car will most likely be very different and may think, "Well it's been repainted because Porsche f'ed up, so what? Porsche had it repainted under warrenty, that's good enough for me, right honey?" and he'll be happy with his new car which he feels he got a good deal on.

As long as you keep it it'll work just as good as anyother car and only you will know it's been repainted unless you tell people or PCA members and car nuts get really close.

Anyway, just keep pluggin away to try to get satisfactionon the repaint. Keep in mind, it sucks bigtime, but you got no choice to get over it; given this perspective, maybe it helps a little.

Face it any of us could slam into a guard rail, wipe out the side, have it fixed, take the loss and MAYBE be able to continue enjoying the "artificially depreciated" car.

The other thing? a NEW car takes a while to start treating it like cr*p. Mines' three months old, has a door ding and I'm pretty much able to park it anywhere. A few months ago it was like treated like my firstborn.

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Jan 2, 2006 5:29:35 PM

Derf: Junior; Loc: Los Angeles; Posts: 138, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 18, 2005; Reply to: U Boat Commander

Re: Update on bad paint and Bondo on my new 997s

Quote:
U Boat Commander said:
Raffi: That does not suprise me that your dealer was BH Porsche. As I've said on this board before, they are the worst. I had many problems with my 996 that I bought from BH Porsche and they treated me like crap. I will never buy another car from them and I bought my 997S from Pacific Porsche.

So far I have been very disappointed with BH Porsche. I didn't buy my car there, but have had the oil changed there and their whole attitude sucks. I hate to continue to give them my $$ and need to find another solution.

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Jan 2, 2006 6:14:43 PM

raffi: Junior; Loc: los angeles; Posts: 126, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 5, 2005; Reply to: Derf

Re: Update on bad paint and Bondo on my new 997s

Mark and Throt,
I never considered going over the car with a fine tooth comb like I did when I purchased my previous used p-cars...
I am no paint or mechanical expert though and would not have noticed anything wrong.
This was my first new car ever and I just assumed it would be perfect, next time I think I need to get a PPI...
Has anybody here thought of or even done a PPI on a brand new car?
Like others said the main issue ended up being the horrible treatment by beverly hills 1 day after being treated like a king just before they took my 100K.

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Jan 2, 2006 6:58:57 PM

U Boat Commander: Veteran; Loc: Los Angeles, CA; Posts: 1250, Gallery; Registered on: May 8, 2004; Reply to: Derf

Re: Update on bad paint and Bondo on my new 997s

Quote:
Derf said:
So far I have been very disappointed with BH Porsche. I didn't buy my car there, but have had the oil changed there and their whole attitude sucks. I hate to continue to give them my $$ and need to find another solution.

Derf: While the sales department at BH Porsche does suck, I've never had anything but a good experience with the service dept. and have been using them for seven years. My service rep that entire time has been Eric Patino and he has always done me right. Next time, ask for Eric.

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Jan 2, 2006 7:32:25 PM

bstew: Expert; Loc: NC, USA; Posts: 1797, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 11, 2005; Reply to: U Boat Commander

Re: Update on bad paint and Bondo on my new 997s

All I can say is wow.

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Jan 2, 2006 8:26:45 PM

Derf: Junior; Loc: Los Angeles; Posts: 138, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 18, 2005; Reply to: U Boat Commander

Re: Update on bad paint and Bondo on my new 997s

Quote:
U Boat Commander said:
Quote:
Derf said:
So far I have been very disappointed with BH Porsche. I didn't buy my car there, but have had the oil changed there and their whole attitude sucks. I hate to continue to give them my $$ and need to find another solution.

Derf: While the sales department at BH Porsche does suck, I've never had anything but a good experience with the service dept. and have been using them for seven years. My service rep that entire time has been Eric Patino and he has always done me right. Next time, ask for Eric.

Thanks for the tip. I will ask for him next time!

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Jan 2, 2006 8:31:06 PM

OCEAN: Expert; Loc: US; Posts: 1334, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 28, 2004; Reply to: bstew

Re: Update on bad paint and Bondo on my new 997s

If it is just the bumpers it is not too bad a problem , it is when it is on the body of the car that it becomes a serious concern . You need to really go over the car when you pick it up that is what I have learned and do it in the right light . I find that taking the car and looking at it under florescent lights really shows the flaws in the paint .

P.S. As far as BH Porsche goes Eric and Trevor get lots of tips working there it is nothing for customers to hand them a couple a hundred dollars when they pick up their car . Not that this is required by any means but it sure helps when I had my car worked on at BH I always tipped them and the mechanic and believe me it was money well spent especially tipping the mechanic . I would also make sure I always picked up my car at the end of the day and would have a case of cold top imported beer with me , the after work hang at that shop with the right refreshments also goes along way

if you work it right at BH service it can be the best service of any dealer in the states ... Now BH new car sales is a different story and there are much better places to buy the car ,, just use BH for service and buy somewhere else . But again if you treat the guys right the service department at BH is great and has a few really great mechanics like Carlos .

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Jan 3, 2006 4:07:07 AM

vtrader: Veteran; Loc: Los Angeles; Posts: 1086, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 6, 2004; Reply to: OCEAN

Re: Update on bad paint and Bondo on my new 997s

Are you sure it is a factory defect and not something that they tried to fix in PDI? Maybe your car was damaged in transit and they tried to fix it. See if you can find out how long the car was in PDI. That should be a clue. If the damage is over a certain price point, they must disclose it.

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Jan 3, 2006 4:45:10 AM

U Boat Commander: Veteran; Loc: Los Angeles, CA; Posts: 1250, Gallery; Registered on: May 8, 2004; Reply to: OCEAN

Re: Update on bad paint and Bondo on my new 997s

Quote:
OCEAN said:
P.S. As far as BH Porsche goes Eric and Trevor get lots of tips working there it is nothing for customers to hand them a couple a hundred dollars when they pick up their car . Not that this is required by any means but it sure helps when I had my car worked on at BH I always tipped them and the mechanic and believe me it was money well spent especially tipping the mechanic . I would also make sure I always picked up my car at the end of the day and would have a case of cold top imported beer with me , the after work hang at that shop with the right refreshments also goes along way if you work it right at BH service it can be the best service of any dealer in the states ... Now BH new car sales is a different story and there are much better places to buy the car ,, just use BH for service and buy somewhere else . But again if you treat the guys right the service department at BH is great and has a few really great mechanics like Carlos .

Ocean: Is that right? In seven years I've never tipped Eric and he always did me right. On one occasion he even got the regional Porsche rep to give me for free a new clutch on my 996 because of all the problems I had out of the box (which didn't include the clutch - that was done by a valet). I always thought Porsche service was expensive enough, now I gotta tip Eric too?

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Update on bad paint and Bondo on my new 997s

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Re: Update on bad paint and Bondo on my new 997s

Re: Update on bad paint and Bondo on my new 997s

Re: Update on bad paint and Bondo on my new 997s

Re: Update on bad paint and Bondo on my new 997s

Re: Update on bad paint and Bondo on my new 997s

Re: Update on bad paint and Bondo on my new 997s

Re: Update on bad paint and Bondo on my new 997s

Re: Update on bad paint and Bondo on my new 997s

Re: Update on bad paint and Bondo on my new 997s

Re: Update on bad paint and Bondo on my new 997s

Re: Update on bad paint and Bondo on my new 997s

Re: Update on bad paint and Bondo on my new 997s

Re: Update on bad paint and Bondo on my new 997s

Re: Update on bad paint and Bondo on my new 997s

Re: Update on bad paint and Bondo on my new 997s

Re: Update on bad paint and Bondo on my new 997s

Re: Update on bad paint and Bondo on my new 997s

Re: Update on bad paint and Bondo on my new 997s

Re: Update on bad paint and Bondo on my new 997s

Re: Update on bad paint and Bondo on my new 997s

Re: Update on bad paint and Bondo on my new 997s

Re: Update on bad paint and Bondo on my new 997s

Re: Update on bad paint and Bondo on my new 997s

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