Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: Cayenne Winter Tires (255s) - Page1

Oct 23, 2003 11:45:09 AM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59590, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002

Cayenne Winter Tires (255s)

Apparently there are two winter wheel sets(rims & tires) available with 255/55 R18 tires on all four wheels.

Part numbers are:
955 044 600 05 Cayenne 18'' Turbo Wheel
955 044 600 06 Cayenne 18'' Turbo Wheel with Tire Pressure Control System

I also have part numbers for the second available rim, the 18'' Cayenne S rim but it looks ugly and I don't recommend ordering it:
955 044 600 03 18'' Cayenne S Wheel
955 044 600 04 18'' Cayenne S Wheel with Tire Pressure Control System

Caution: I don't know if the above wheel sets are available for other markets too, this information is valid for Germany only right now.

Price tag is 3027,60 Euro (3317,60 Euro ) for the Cayenne Turbo Wheel Set and 2900,00 Euro (3190,00 Euro ) for the Cayenne S Wheel Set. Prices in brackets are for Wheel Sets compatible to the Tire Pressure Control System, all prices include 16% german VAT.

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Oct 23, 2003 12:20:09 PM

GM Austin: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Texas , United States; Posts: 3530, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 10, 2002; Reply to: RC

Re: Cayenne Winter Tires (255s)

Thanks RC.

The US Porsche website finally has a Cayenne Tequipment section and Porsche is showing the same part numbers that you have for Winter tires on those rims. The only difference is, they are showing Dunlop Winter Sport tires for those part numbers: Porsche web page. They are speed rated to 118 mph (T).

The current Christophorus has winter tire recommendations and show the Dunlop Grandtrek 235/60 for the 18" wheels on the Cayenne. This tire is rated to 130 mph (H). I have not found this tire available in the US. I haven't looked very hard either though.

Winter tires are not a big concern of mine where I live.

Ron though, I bet he's worried!

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Oct 23, 2003 12:50:50 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59590, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: GM Austin

Re: Cayenne Winter Tires (255s)

Gary, I wish I wouldn't need winter tires over here where I live but right now we're expecting some snow after a record hot summer with temperatures in the 100s.
Tomorrow I'll put again winter tires on our ML55, I might see some white stuff over the weekend.

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Oct 23, 2003 3:38:23 PM

Cay: Junior; Loc: Germany; Posts: 124, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 10, 2003; Reply to: RC

Re: Cayenne Winter Tires (255s)

I have the Dunlop Grand Trek Mounted. They are recommended from PAG and have the NO Classification. The Speed Index is "H" - so you can drive them until 210 kp/h - so I'm sure the Pirellis have the same Speed Index too.
They running smooth and soft comparing to the 20" Michelins and they are good in rain but to soft in hard driven curves.
Ok, it`swinter and you can`t have it all...

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Oct 23, 2003 7:51:25 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59590, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: Cay

Re: Cayenne Winter Tires (255s)

Quote:
I have the Dunlop Grand Trek Mounted.

The Dunlop Grand Trek is no winter tire and I don't recommend using it in winter time, especially in the mountains.
Braking distance/control and side grip is horrible.

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Oct 23, 2003 8:13:31 PM

Cay: Junior; Loc: Germany; Posts: 124, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 10, 2003; Reply to: RC

Re: Cayenne Winter Tires (255s)

Quote:
Quote:
I have the Dunlop Grand Trek Mounted.

The Dunlop Grand Trek is no winter tire and I don't recommend using it in winter time, especially in the mountains.
Braking distance/control and side grip is horrible.

you`re wrong - it is a winter tire:

18-Zoll Cayenne S
Winterkomplett-
radsatz VA:
HA: 8 J x 18 ET 57
8 J x 18 ET 57 235/60 R 18 H,
max. 210 km/h Dunlop
Grandtreck 955 044 600 03 *
955 044

check yourself here:
http://www3.porsche.de/german/deu/accessories/cayenneteq/raedertabelle.htm

you mixed it up with the Pirelli All Terrain tire - the Pirelli is the non-winter

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Oct 24, 2003 1:07:04 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59590, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: Cay

Re: Cayenne Winter Tires (255s)

Quote:
you`re wrong - it is a winter tire:

18-Zoll Cayenne S
Winterkomplett-
radsatz VA:
HA: 8 J x 18 ET 57
8 J x 18 ET 57 235/60 R 18 H,
max. 210 km/h Dunlop
Grandtreck 955 044 600 03 *
955 044

check yourself here:
http://www3.porsche.de/german/deu/accessories/cayenneteq/raedertabelle.htm

you mixed it up with the Pirelli All Terrain tire - the Pirelli is the non-winter

I'm not wrong, the Grandtrek is no winter tire, you have the Grandtrek WT M2 or M3 installed. Unfortunately the Tequipment list isn't very precise and you didn't provide more information either.

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Oct 24, 2003 1:32:58 PM

Cay: Junior; Loc: Germany; Posts: 124, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 10, 2003; Reply to: RC

Re: Cayenne Winter Tires (255s)

[quote
I'm not wrong, the Grandtrek is no winter tire, you have the Grandtrek WT M2 or M3 installed. Unfortunately the Tequipment list isn't very precise and you didn't provide more information either.

for sure you`re wrong and yes, I have the Grandtrek WT M2.
If you don`t believe the PAG infos here`s the WT M2 discription from Dunlop:

Grandtrek WT M2/M3
Ihn lässt der Winter kalt:

Laufrichtungsgebundener HighPerformance Winterreifen mit hohen Sicherheitsreserven und komfortabler Abstimmung. Eine optimierte Lamellen-Geometrie sorgt in Verbindung mit modernster Silica-Polymer-Laufflächenmischung für ausgezeichnete Haftung auf Nässe, Schnee und Eis.

Optimierte 0*-Abdecklagen sorgen für hohe Spurtreue bei Höchstgeschwindigkeit und ein längeres Reifenleben (Dunlop JLB-Patent)

Be sure I don`t pay 300 Euros per each without checking thats the right tire :-)

You can also check with PAG Stgt thats NO Pirelli Wintertire at the moment wich is recommended from PAG.

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Oct 24, 2003 1:53:48 PM

Cay: Junior; Loc: Germany; Posts: 124, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 10, 2003; Reply to: Cay

Re: Cayenne Winter Tires (255s)

a letter send out to customers end of september - the only WINTERtire listed is the Dunlop Grandtrek WT M2 N0:

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Oct 24, 2003 2:53:34 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59590, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: Cay

Re: Cayenne Winter Tires (255s)

Quote:
for sure you`re wrong and yes, I have the Grandtrek WT M2.
If you don`t believe the PAG infos here`s the WT M2 discription from Dunlop

I'm not sure if you're reading my posts carefully and I'd recommend to read YOUR posts again carefully too.

You stated in your first post that you have a Dunlop Grandtrek. Now there are dozens of different Grandtreks available from Dunlop but ONLY the WT M2 or M3 is a winter tire. Got it?

And to make it even more complicated for you: the Grandtrek WT M2 or M3 is actually the same as the Dunlop Wintersport M2 or M3.

So I'm not sure what you're talking about because you never mentioned the WT M2 or M3, you mentioned a Grandtrek and the Grandtrek is actually Dunlop's Offroad tire which includes dozens of different profiles and only one is suitable for the winter. Oh boy...

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Oct 24, 2003 2:58:55 PM

GM Austin: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Texas , United States; Posts: 3530, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 10, 2002; Reply to: RC

Re: Cayenne Winter Tires (255s)

But there's only one Grandtrek recommended by PAG and carrying an N0 rating, correct?

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Oct 24, 2003 4:47:25 PM

Cay: Junior; Loc: Germany; Posts: 124, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 10, 2003; Reply to: RC

Re: Cayenne Winter Tires (255s)

[quoteI'm not sure if you're reading my posts carefully and I'd recommend to read YOUR posts again carefully too.

You stated in your first post that you have a Dunlop Grandtrek. Now there are dozens of different Grandtreks available from Dunlop but ONLY the WT M2 or M3 is a winter tire. Got it?

And to make it even more complicated for you: the Grandtrek WT M2 or M3 is actually the same as the Dunlop Wintersport M2 or M3.

So I'm not sure what you're talking about because you never mentioned the WT M2 or M3, you mentioned a Grandtrek and the Grandtrek is actually Dunlop's Offroad tire which includes dozens of different profiles and only one is suitable for the winter. Oh boy...

I read them well:

...Apparently there are two winter wheel sets(rims & tires) available with 255/55 R18 tires on all four wheels.
The tire is a Pirelli Wintersport, however I'm not sure it is the W240 (approved to a speed of 240 kph) as stated in the document I hold in my hands...

So:

- there is NO Pirelli Wintersport recommended for the Cayenne
- Speedindex from 240 would be fine but 210 is the fact
- same with the size 255 not for winter, 235 is recommended
- there 2 (two) Grandtreks for winter: M2 & M3 (this only cuz you want it correctly - read your quoted post above)
- you can say what u want - Dunlop Grandtrek is the correct name.

Ok if you want confusion on the top you can also say its a offroad tire from Dunlop but its fact thats also the correct wintertire or the Cayenne. So, who is confusing here?

You can say glass is half full or half empty, right?

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Oct 24, 2003 5:01:21 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59590, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: Cay

Re: Cayenne Winter Tires (255s)

Quote:
- there is NO Pirelli Wintersport recommended for the Cayenne
- Speedindex from 240 would be fine but 210 is the fact
- same with the size 255 not for winter, 235 is recommended
- there 2 (two) Grandtreks for winter: M2 & M3 (this only cuz you want it correctly - read your quoted post above)
- you can say what u want - Dunlop Grandtrek is the correct name.

Ok if you want confusion on the top you can also say its a offroad tire from Dunlop but its fact thats also the correct wintertire or the Cayenne. So, who is confusing here?

You can say glass is half full or half empty, right?

Again: you don't have a Dunlop Grandtrek on your Cayenne but a Dunlop Grandtrek WT M2 or M3.
This is the same if I'd say that I have a Pirelli PZero on my car...WHICH one? PZero Jiallo, Rosso, Direzionale, Nero, Corsa, Asimmetrico? All are completely different tires.
So let me see: there is a Dunlop Grandtrek SP9000, Grandtrek PT9000, Grandtrek PT1, Grandtrek ST8000, Grandtrek ST1, Grandtrek AT2, Grandtrek MT2, Grandtrek TG31. Not to speak about specialty Grandtrek off-road tires (I'd need the whole night to post the list). None of these tires is a winter tire. So do you really have a Grandtrek? It is like telling people you own a Porsche 911 but are the 911 C2 and GT3 the same thing? C'mon.

Dunlop changed the name of the Wintersport M2 & M3 for SUVs because ALL of their SUV tires are now named Grandtrek, the profile is the same on the Grantrek M2/M3 and Wintersport M2/M3.

You are right with one thing: the (official) information I have states Pirelli Wintersport W240 but in reality it seems that it is the Pirelli Scorpion Snow & Ice because I called Pirelli today and they confirmed there is no Wintersport W240 in the 255/55-18 size. And yes, the Scorpion Snow & Ice is a winter tire but only good to a speed of 210 kph. But I guess this isn't my fault if the documentation isn't precise.

I would love to give it up but I try again (maybe you'll understand): the information on Porsche's Tequipment site is not current information, the information I posted is the latest one. I'm sorry to disappoint you but the 255s I mentioned are winter tires and they are approved for the Cayenne. Officially.

Bad luck your dealer wasn't aware of it.
Or do you think I invented the official Porsche part numbers by myself?

And now I stop before I really get a heart attack.

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Oct 24, 2003 6:12:25 PM

JP66: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Seattle , United States; Posts: 2217, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 10, 2003; Reply to: RC

Re: Cayenne Winter Tires (255s)

Ohhh the drama!!

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Oct 24, 2003 8:10:25 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59590, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: JP66

Re: Cayenne Winter Tires (255s)

Quote:
Ohhh the drama!!

No drama, just precise information.

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Oct 24, 2003 8:20:23 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59590, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: GM Austin

Re: Cayenne Winter Tires (255s)

Quote:
Thanks RC.

The US Porsche website finally has a Cayenne Tequipment section and Porsche is showing the same part numbers that you have for Winter tires on those rims. The only difference is, they are showing Dunlop Winter Sport tires for those part numbers...

The funny part is: these are 235s instead of 255s, so people should be careful not to mix up the german and the US part numbers which seem to be the same but they use different tires (incl. different sizes). Oh boy, this is so weird.

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Oct 24, 2003 8:32:54 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59590, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: RC

Re: Cayenne Winter Tires (255s)

And now things are even funnier, check this link:

Winter Wheel Sets Germany

There is the same part number I posted with different tires and tire sizes. I suppose I should contact PAG directly and ask what this is all about.
Here's a copy of the document I have, just in case you guys think I'm just hallucinating.

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Oct 25, 2003 4:47:09 AM

CayenneAK: Junior; Loc: Alaska; Posts: 72, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 8, 2003; Reply to: RC

Re: Cayenne Winter Tires (255s)

I am afraid to chime-in given the passion of the tire conversation ....not to mention my straying from the Porsche recommended winter tire. I have a Cayenne S up here in Alaska where there is SNOW SNOW SNOW. I have the summer 19'' oem rims and have just got the 18'' oem wheel to put winter tires on. I am going with the Pirelli Scorpion Snow and Ice stud-less winter tires because (1) I like Pirelli (2) I got good feedback on this tire for snow traction. I also looked into a possible studded snow tires which I have been using in Alaska for years on previous cars.....Nokian has told me their new Studded 18'' tire will fit...but I am going to try the Pirelli stud-less and hope that I don't fly off into the Cook Inlet........AK

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Oct 25, 2003 12:00:26 PM

GM Austin: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Texas , United States; Posts: 3530, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 10, 2002; Reply to: RC

Re: Cayenne Winter Tires (255s)

It could be a mistake on Porsche's part. I have seen them make a mistake on the off-road tire as well, quoting it as 255/55 when the fact is they have only approved the 235/60. Sometimes a copy editor feels compelled to make content corrections when they are only to check for grammer. The 255/55 is so otherwise common for the Cayenne in the 18" wheel, I'll bet a copy editor corrected it.

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Oct 25, 2003 1:16:50 PM

GM Austin: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Texas , United States; Posts: 3530, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 10, 2002; Reply to: CayenneAK

Re: Cayenne Winter Tires (255s)

CayenneAK, thanks for the photo and don't forget to send us pictures of the Cayenne in the muck and grime of winter use there in Alaska. This is a utility vehicle after all and I want to see photos of it doing it's job.

Let us know how those Pirelli's do as well.

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Oct 25, 2003 2:46:06 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59590, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: GM Austin

Re: Cayenne Winter Tires (255s)

Quote:
It could be a mistake on Porsche's part. I have seen them make a mistake on the off-road tire as well, quoting it as 255/55 when the fact is they have only approved the 235/60. Sometimes a copy editor feels compelled to make content corrections when they are only to check for grammer. The 255/55 is so otherwise common for the Cayenne in the 18" wheel, I'll bet a copy editor corrected it.

Usually I wouldn't argue on that, you can be very very right.
But I got the document a few days ago and there shouldn't be any mistakes anymore. Well...shouldn't.

I guess I have to contact Porsche directly to check on that because 1. Customers need to know what is correct and 2. I don't like making myself look like a fool.

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Oct 25, 2003 5:51:27 PM

CayenneAK: Junior; Loc: Alaska; Posts: 72, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 8, 2003; Reply to: GM Austin

Re: Cayenne Winter Tires (255s)

Will do....still practicing the picture editing thing. Here is a link with PDF article on the tire issue...not much new however...AK

http://www2.us.porsche.com/english/usa/news/christophorus/0304/pdf/cpm_301_sommerreifen_engl.PDF

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Oct 26, 2003 1:29:29 AM

GM Austin: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Texas , United States; Posts: 3530, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 10, 2002; Reply to: CayenneAK

Re: Cayenne Winter Tires (255s)

I remember that article. It was consistent with almost everything else I have seen including the information in the current Christophorus. Unfortunately there is not a pdf of the article in the current issue but I have read it and there is nothing new in the Cayenne recommendations.

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Oct 26, 2003 5:32:17 AM

CayenneAK: Junior; Loc: Alaska; Posts: 72, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 8, 2003; Reply to: GM Austin

Re: Cayenne Winter Tires (255s)

In case this hasn't been cleared up by all the experts here....my Pirelli Scorpion Snow and Ice are a purely winter tire. The size: 255/55 R18. I will keep making useless points on this topic until I am out of "Stranger" status.

I would like to talk about the Cayenne CD player and the 2 weeks it spent in the shop while the Certified Porsche mechanic fumbled fixing it....it is still an awesome car! AK

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Oct 26, 2003 12:11:00 PM

GM Austin: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Texas , United States; Posts: 3530, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 10, 2002; Reply to: CayenneAK

Re: Cayenne Winter Tires (255s)

Congratulations, your now a Newbie!

Now you have to work to get out of that status! I think Stranger actually has a better ring to it. It begs the question "stranger than what?"

About your Pirelli's: I don't think they are a Porsche approved (hard to be certain

) and that is a significant factor for many readers on this board. As I am beginning to understand it, some countries have a legal requirement that you only use tires recommended by the manufacturer. In the US there is not that legal requirement or, in general, that mindset. We're pretty independent thinkers here.

In your circumstance I'll bet you couldn't care one whit what Porsche thinks of your Pirelli's.

You just need a tire that performs and although I personally have no use for winter tires, I would still like to know how your selection does on snow and ice.

Why don't you start a new thread on the CD player and your problems. Is it the changer?

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Oct 26, 2003 12:21:41 PM

GM Austin: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Texas , United States; Posts: 3530, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 10, 2002; Reply to: RC

Re: Cayenne Winter Tires (255s)

Quote:
But I got the document a few days ago and there shouldn't be any mistakes anymore. Well...shouldn't.

In the publishing world that doesn't necessarily help. It is a frustrating thing but old files have a way of resurfacing and displacing current work. Age is no guarantee. It can drive you crazy.

This is all speculative of course. Maybe Porsche has approved a 255/55 winter tire.

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Oct 26, 2003 6:42:45 PM

CayenneAK: Junior; Loc: Alaska; Posts: 72, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 8, 2003; Reply to: GM Austin

Re: Cayenne Winter Tires (255s)

You are right, I believe the Pirelli Winter tire is NOT Porsche approved at this time. I hope I don't go to Porsche-Hell for that. Some have even asked that the warranty my be in jeopardy by straying from the Porsche recommendations...but I think all is ok as long as you stay with the recommended size. Anyhow, don't do as I do, I picked those tires for my years of Pirelli allegiance and for the snow issue. Newbie/AK

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Oct 26, 2003 10:57:02 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59590, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: GM Austin

Re: Cayenne Winter Tires (255s)

Quote:
This is all speculative of course. Maybe Porsche has approved a 255/55 winter tire.

Maybe is not enough I'm afraid.

I have to check with Porsche this week, I hope my work schedule gives me some spare time to conduct a little chat on the phone. They can be lengthy...

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Oct 29, 2003 11:56:21 PM

CayenneAK: Junior; Loc: Alaska; Posts: 72, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 8, 2003; Reply to: CayenneAK

Re: Cayenne Winter Tires (255s)

Quote:
In case this hasn't been cleared up by all the experts here....my Pirelli Scorpion Snow and Ice are a purely winter tire. The size: 255/55 R18. I will keep making useless points on this topic until I am out of "Stranger" status.

Here is the final mounted Wheel/Winter Pirelli....AK

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