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    Re: Ramp-up problems at Liepzig?

    well that sucks except that if true, it would mean my car should be changeable beyond 2/04 (as in i can change it during/after the 3/04 factory visit upon seeing the different interior colors)? being that production was to begin in 8/04, it would have been an 05 anyway.

    Re: Ramp-up problems at Liepzig?

    Depending on the length of the delay it could be sufficient legal reason to get out of the contract and return of the $50,000.

    Many will be waiting over 3 years for a car which was promised to them a lot sooner. Also, by the time they get it, there will be other supercars being introduced at a more advanced technological state.

    Porsche better suck it up and get these cars out on time.

    Re: Ramp-up problems at Liepzig?

    Quote:
    Also, by the time they get it, there will be other supercars being introduced at a more advanced technological state.



    Really? Would you please name some?

    Re: Ramp-up problems at Liepzig?

    "Many will be waiting over 3 years for a car which was promised to them a lot sooner. Also, by the time they get it, there will be other supercars being introduced at a more advanced technological state."

    that hasn't seemed to hurt sales of ferrari's entry level cab.

    Re: Ramp-up problems at Liepzig?

    Ben, people who buy the Ferrari are told in advance approximately how long they have to wait. It is their decision to wait. Additionally the markup on the CGT is primarily for state of the art technology (albeit circa 1999 ). To deliver the car in 2006 is beyond reasonable expectations.


    RC, with Audi, Ford and MB in the supercar market and Ferrari planning its next big splash you can be certain the CGT will be outdated in 2006/7.

    Re: Ramp-up problems at Liepzig?

    Nick...I'm just curious...what do you have against Porsche? You seem to always have things to say about the company or its practices or how Porsche is not exclusive...but yet you own a Cayenne and are about to buy a TT Cab. I'm just confused.

    Oh yeah...you say the CGT has 1999 technology...how come it's tub is stronger than the Enzo's? How come it "unofficially" beats the Enzo in track tests? (I say unofficially because at the moment, no one knows but Porsche and they can be biased! ) And how come most journalists say it's on par if not better than the Enzo? All this with 1999 technology...that must make the Enzo look real outdated with 2002 and F1 technology.

    Most of us have waited quite a while for the CGT...we wouldn't mind waiting just a bit longer.

    Cheers,
    -Nick

    Re: Ramp-up problems at Liepzig?

    One additional comment...I've always loved Ferraris...always have and have nothing against them. They definitely have an exotic feel to them that Porsche lacks (aside from the CGT). Perhaps it's the passion? And of course, the sound of a Ferrari engine is to die for. I'm just curious about your thinking behind Porsche.

    Regards,
    -Nick

    Re: Ramp-up problems at Liepzig?

    "Nick...I'm just curious...what do you have against Porsche? You seem to always have things to say about the company or its practices or how Porsche is not exclusive...but yet you own a Cayenne"

    yes, and this despite the overwhelming magazine reviews stating the entry level cayenne a loser relative to it's much cheaper peers. the TT cayenne is an entirely different matter though as it does crush all comers.

    "people who buy the Ferrari are told in advance approximately how long they have to wait."

    interesting you should say that. i know a bunch of folks who didn't know in advance approximately how long - that even includes the dealer with whom you deal. btw, what % of extra time relative to the "approximate" original expected ETA (you TOLD me it was intially to be DELIVERED by year-end 03) is your replacement spyder going to come?

    "Additionally the markup on the CGT is primarily for state of the art technology (albeit circa 1999 )."

    lol, what the heck then does that say about the entry level 360 ferrari (or any ferrari for that matter)?

    wow, pitty those poor folks paying 2X the CGT for the Enzo which doesn't even have some of the technology the CGT does (ie: ceramic clutch, rigidity - heck the CGT is even an open top car, etc) - IF they even get it at MSRP.

    "To deliver the car in 2006 is beyond reasonable expectations."

    who the hell said anything about 2006? are you trying to be argumentative cause i know you aren't that stupid. didn't the earlier post this AM say 200 of the first 500 would be delayed a few months and that production would pick up for the following two years to make up for it? (i wonder if this has anything to do with the body supplier who is also supplying enzo's - maybe ferrari has again cranked up production beyond initally stated #s and is hogging the body maker's production - maybe ferrari knows they better delay the CGT until they're finished dumping their inferior, overpriced product?) iow, didn't what you and i read this AM suggest ALL CGTs would be dilivered by "2006"? heck, 33% of the total 1500 production is scheduled to be delivered in 2006 as it is. the numbers from this AM suggest 40% will be delivered in 2006. 33% of the production was to delivered in 2005, and it appears 40% will be now. so, it looks like delays will be minimal to non-existent. i don't think many of us are too upset about waiting a few extra months for the ferrari killer at half the cost with daily driver reliability anyway though.

    "RC, with Audi, Ford and MB in the supercar market and Ferrari planning its next big splash you can be certain the CGT will be outdated in 2006/7."

    keep reading magazines for your "performance" figures. you cannot produce CGT performance (including rigidity, lightness, etc) on a Audi (look at???), Ford (look at the 3400 lb GT), MB (look at the 3650 lb SLR), or Ferrari (look at their pathetic offerings relative to Porsche based on cost) with the price point you're suggesting it'll all be available in 2006/7.

    nick, you so surprise me. you are one of the nicest people i've met (in person) yet you seem to get your rocks off by pissing in the wheaties of anyone who owns something you don't.

    PS. typical:

    http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=ferrari&Number=16650&Main=16650#Post16650


    Re: Ramp-up problems at Liepzig?

    Ben, don't get mad. I was questioned because I felt delaying production of the CGT sucks. They have had this planned for years. They jack up the price give all of you build dates and now must renege? This car was introduced 2 years ago and not one has been delivered!!!!!

    At some point people like yourself need to get mad and state your case. Consider that by increasing production from what was stated for a particular year will invariably lead to quality control problems. Pity the person getting his in 2006.

    Regarding my Spider, my commitment was a March date but they would try to make it earlier. I ended up with a Jan. build date. Pretty close to what was promised.

    Finally my beef with Porsche has nothing to do with performance or quality. It has to do with a lack of willingness on its part to protect the people that has made it the most profitable auto company in the world. You have made it clear from all your anti TT Cab. posts that you feel the same way. So what is your beef?

    Re: Ramp-up problems at Liepzig?

    Quote:
    RC, with Audi, Ford and MB in the supercar market and Ferrari planning its next big splash you can be certain the CGT will be outdated in 2006/7.



    Well, right now neither the Ford GT nor the SLR impress me too much, even if the Ford GT is a very nice car at a highly competitve price tag. But to compare it to the CGT...I don't know. Audi? Well, I'm not that sure if I look at the Bugatti "fiasco". The Nuvolari is a prototype right now, nothing more. Ferrari? I'm not sure there is anything planned for the next 18 months.
    And yes, maybe in 3-4 years, there will be other supercars available but there will be a Porsche too...again.
    This is how it always works...there always will be something better, something nicer, something faster...this is life.

    To deliver the CGT is beyond "reasonable expectations"? Why? Porsche planned 1500 CGT, 500 are build every year. Buyers know that, I know that, other people know that (apparently YOU didn't know that ), so what's the problem?
    What is better: to build a few Ferrari ENZO, deliver them to the Creme de la Creme and that's it or allowing 1500 people to drive one of the best sports cars in the world? YOU tell me.
    I remember we had a similar discussion a long time ago, I think it was about the 911 Turbo and the 360. I still think the 911 Turbo is by far superior to the 360 by any means but people still would argue. I would like to use my friend CR as an example: his "showcar" is a Ferrari F355, he loves showing it off, driving around with it. His daily driver is his very fast 911 Turbo and he intends to buy the 997 Turbo too.

     
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