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    Oct 10, 2003 3:24:55 AM

    kflem
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    kflem
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    Air Conditioning weight penalty for GT-3

    Now that we all know the GT-3 doesn't come with
    air conditioning unless option code 573 is specified
    (I just received the 9/23 order guide), what is the
    weight savings without A/C and climate control?

    And the next question, considering it is no-cost, which of you would include it just for resale/comfort reasons?

    Oct 10, 2003 8:07:15 AM

    rsv
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    Reply to: kflem

    Re: Air Conditioning weight penalty for GT-3

    30 kg afaik

    Oct 10, 2003 8:10:38 AM

    RCA
    Rennteam Administrator
    RC
    Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany
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    Reply to: kflem

    Re: Air Conditioning weight penalty for GT-3

    If you're using your car mainly on the track, forget about A/C.
    If not, A/C is a must. The 30 kg additional weight don't play any significant role regarding street performance but selling a car without A/C, especially in the US, could be a problem.

    Oct 10, 2003 8:39:01 AM

    Cay
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    Loc: Germany
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: Air Conditioning weight penalty for GT-3

    Quote:
    If you're using your car mainly on the track, forget about A/C.
    If not, A/C is a must. The 30 kg additional weight don't play any significant role regarding street performance but selling a car without A/C, especially in the US, could be a problem.



    ...not only in the US... I allready see 99/00 GT3`s with retrofitted seatheatingsystems and big navi displays :-)

    I also believe that the average driver (like most of us - or any Schumi or Röhrl here?) can`t drive out or even feel the 30 kg`s savings on the track - and normally you sweat like a pig on a trackday - so you can see sense of a GT3 A/C from 2 sides.

    Oct 10, 2003 7:17:25 PM

    Dimitris
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    Reply to: kflem

    Re: Air Conditioning weight penalty for GT-3

    The A/C compressor from a Boxster weighs about 20 pounds. The condensors weigh about 5 pounds. 30kg are almost 70 pounds. I am not sure where is all that weight.

    Oct 10, 2003 10:23:22 PM

    Mr.RS
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    Reply to: Dimitris

    Re: Air Conditioning weight penalty for GT-3

    When I asked for clarification on the weight penalty that Air Con brings to the party on the RS I was told 22KG. That does seem rather high but I suppose thta it takes into consideration things like control panel condensor additional hoses the weight of the coolant etc etc.

    If there is anyone out there with a difinative answer I would like to know.

    I suppose the only way to be 100% certain is to take a car with Air con and one without and weight them!!

    Apologise for the spelling.

    P

    Oct 10, 2003 11:38:30 PM

    Dimitris
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    Reply to: Mr.RS

    Re: Air Conditioning weight penalty for GT-3

    My mech told me that any hoses or ventilation units behind the dash will not exceed 10-15 pounds in weight. It is too much trouble to get rid of them. So on a Boxster, the weight penalty will never be more than 40 pounds (max). Most likely around 30 pounds. The weights I posted are after I removed and weighed the stuff from my car

    You will never notice the performance diff between two cars provided everything else is equal. But if removing the A/C is part of a bigger plan to reduce seriously the weight of your car, then go for it. From my experience, it takes 100-150 pounds of weight removal to start feeling the difference...

    Oct 11, 2003 1:04:47 AM

    watt
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    Reply to: Dimitris

    Re: Air Conditioning weight penalty for GT-3

    when i asked alois ruf what was my penalty for the ruf rgt3, he said 15-20 kg... i suspect he knows. i am contemplating ordering one but i will take the a/c penalty....

    Oct 11, 2003 10:22:00 AM

    mobile
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    Reply to: kflem

    Re: Air Conditioning weight penalty for GT-3

    I also asked many people from Porsche. (At least 10 times) I get every number from 15 kg up to 35-40 kg. Some of them say: Definitly in the range between 35-40 kg and definitly not in the range under 20 kg. Other say: Not more than 20 kg.

    So I start a letter and send it to the some Porsche experts. (The Problem is that those experts are not allowed to answer any questions from a customer directly. It has to go over your Porsche dealer. He than give it to a sales manager ... and so on.)

    I talked to a guy from Porsche who explains that weight could be an issue and gives me an example: If you're not a professional - and I'm not - you can feel "weight" comparing your car with and without a full tank. A GT3 has a 89 litres tank. So the difference between a car with full and empty tank is something about 60-70 kg. (You never drive your car until it is complete empty )

    He droves a GT3 RS with full and almost empty tank and suggests that it is a huge difference. (Of course again it depends on the drivers experience and of the general weight of the car)

    So my thoughts are: If you took A/C-, Xenon and radio - will you feel the difference?

    Waiting for the answer...

    mobile

    Oct 12, 2003 3:12:43 AM

    Dimitris
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    Reply to: mobile

    Re: Air Conditioning weight penalty for GT-3

    >So my thoughts are: If you took A/C-, Xenon and radio - will you feel the difference?

    A/C = max 40 pounds
    Xenon = max 10 pounds (4 xtra fluid you can remove)
    Radio = 4 pounds + 2 dash speakers @ 1.5 pounds each = 7 pounds

    Total: Max 57 pounds

    >So the difference between a car with full and empty tank is >something about 60-70 kg. (You never drive your car until it >is complete empty

    60 kgs = 135 pounds

    The answer is clearly no. You will not feel any difference.

    As a rule of thumb, every 100 pounds removed results in 0.1 better 1/4 mile time (or ~10HP). 0.1 diff is very difficult to feel.

    Your friend forgets a very important aspect. The fuel is all concentrated in the front end of the car. When the tank is empty the car "feels" lighter cause the front end is significantly lighter; steering feels much lighter too.

    If the same weight was spread all over the car or concentrated in the rear end (where most of the weight of the car is) it would not feel the same. Take a 100 pound stone and put it inside the hood. You will feel a big difference. Take the same stone and place it behind your seat. Not the same.

    My opinion? Order them. If you want to remove them, it is easy.

    Oct 14, 2003 1:26:31 AM

    kflem
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    Reply to: kflem

    Re: Air Conditioning weight penalty for GT-3

    All: I think we have a definitive answer on the weight. My
    salesman asked Porsche directly: 20 kg. But Porsche
    won't specify the hp loss with A/C on because they
    haven't measured it.

    Oct 14, 2003 9:13:57 PM

    Mr.RS
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    Reply to: kflem

    Re: Air Conditioning weight penalty for GT-3

    There is no power loss with the Aircon system switched on as it is disengaged when the ECU senses that the car is under load and is required to make full power.

    At cruising speed there will be power loss but what that is I dont know. My GT3 gained 1-2mpg when it was disengaged at a steady 90mph (bored on the way back from Germany )

    P.
     
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