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Re: GT3RS Ring lap time.
Quote:
Don't forget that it has Pirelli Corsa tires which should make for at least 10-15 seconds alone.
If the BMW M3 CSL can do 7.50 I would bet that the GT3RS is at least 10 seconds faster.
Well after inspecting the 'new' Corsa at the IAA I'm not sure if this tire will gain more then 10 seconds ...
This new Corsa is supposed to have an improved handling in wet conditions. But the cost is obviously less grip and worse handling in the dry.
Cheers
Thomas
Sep 19, 2003 9:56:36 PM
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Carlos from Spain
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Re: GT3RS Ring lap time.
The M3 CSL did it in Michelin Pilot Sport Cup's not Corsa's.
I'm with Pierre, it should be around 7:50 but not bellow it.
No matter how good it handles, you need more than 380-390HP so as not to loose precious time in accelerating at those high speeds with such drag resistance seen in the ring, you average 100mph in such laps so you need added shier overall grunt/power (not power-weight which is different) at those speeds to improve only the slightest bit futher the lap times bellow 8min, you can't do it on handling alone or shaving off 75lbs (...unless you use slicks or cheat using street legal R-compound tires like the CSL). The impact of handling behond those sub-8min lap times becomes increasingly minimal as opposed to adding the increased HP factor i.e GT2, Zonda, modded TT's such as Techart, Gemballas, etc. or a sub 1000lbs race-kit cars which are the only ones that can due sub-7:50 times. Thats why a compared to the GT3 a softer chasis/supspension setup and heavier stock 996TT can still manage to do 7:56. I would be willing to venture that just adding 50HP to the regular GT3 would yield better ring lap times than the GT3RS. But the fact that the GT3 is by far the fastest car in the ring in its HP range tell us how brilliant it must be at handling
but there is no way the GT3RS is going to out handle its TT sibling, the GT2, under professional hands so much that its going to even match its lap time (7:46) in the ring with 80HP less, let alone beat it by 7 seconds (7:39), approaching the Carrera GT lap times 
, thats ridiculous.
I'm with Pierre, it should be around 7:50 but not bellow it.
No matter how good it handles, you need more than 380-390HP so as not to loose precious time in accelerating at those high speeds with such drag resistance seen in the ring, you average 100mph in such laps so you need added shier overall grunt/power (not power-weight which is different) at those speeds to improve only the slightest bit futher the lap times bellow 8min, you can't do it on handling alone or shaving off 75lbs (...unless you use slicks or cheat using street legal R-compound tires like the CSL). The impact of handling behond those sub-8min lap times becomes increasingly minimal as opposed to adding the increased HP factor i.e GT2, Zonda, modded TT's such as Techart, Gemballas, etc. or a sub 1000lbs race-kit cars which are the only ones that can due sub-7:50 times. Thats why a compared to the GT3 a softer chasis/supspension setup and heavier stock 996TT can still manage to do 7:56. I would be willing to venture that just adding 50HP to the regular GT3 would yield better ring lap times than the GT3RS. But the fact that the GT3 is by far the fastest car in the ring in its HP range tell us how brilliant it must be at handling
but there is no way the GT3RS is going to out handle its TT sibling, the GT2, under professional hands so much that its going to even match its lap time (7:46) in the ring with 80HP less, let alone beat it by 7 seconds (7:39), approaching the Carrera GT lap times , thats ridiculous.
Sep 19, 2003 10:12:00 PM
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CF
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Reply to:
Carlos from Spain
Re: GT3RS Ring lap time.
The GT3RS has Pirelli P Zero Corsa tires (R) that have been specially made just for the GT3RS.
The changes made over the standard Corsas have been the pattern on the tires in order to get better handling in wet conditions.
Nevertheless they are still R tires with considerable better handling than normal tires.
Do you honestly think that the BMW M3 CSL is as fast as a car from Porsche that was developed with the single goal in mind of claiming the title of the Ring.
The changes made over the standard Corsas have been the pattern on the tires in order to get better handling in wet conditions.
Nevertheless they are still R tires with considerable better handling than normal tires.
Do you honestly think that the BMW M3 CSL is as fast as a car from Porsche that was developed with the single goal in mind of claiming the title of the Ring.
Sep 19, 2003 10:30:36 PM
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Carlos from Spain
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CF
Re: GT3RS Ring lap time.
No, the GT3RS should be faster with equal tires. IMO the GT3RS with the Pilot Sport Cups would beat the CSL's 7:50, maybe by 1-2 secs, which is still a lot. But not with the Corsas, which as Thomas already mentioned, compromise some dry traction for some at least minimally aceptable wet traction since Porsche would never sell their GT3RS or any other model with stock tires that are so COMPLETELY useless in wet as the Pilot Sport Cups that its not even funny. So thats why my guess is around 7:50. BTW the '04 Z06 did 7:56 in normal street tires, it would be interesting to see a comparo b/w these three along with the stradale all on the same tires.
But there is not title to win by the GT3RS in the ring anyways, Porsche has the CGT which is faster and, in in general, the Radical SR3 with a 7:19 has the production car record which not even the CGT can beat. And until proven otherwise the GT3's bigger brother, the GT2 is faster with 7:46, so the GT3RS can only claim to be the fastest bellow 400HP car
But there is not title to win by the GT3RS in the ring anyways, Porsche has the CGT which is faster and, in in general, the Radical SR3 with a 7:19 has the production car record which not even the CGT can beat. And until proven otherwise the GT3's bigger brother, the GT2 is faster with 7:46, so the GT3RS can only claim to be the fastest bellow 400HP car
Sep 19, 2003 11:00:43 PM
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Carlos from Spain
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CF
Re: GT3RS Ring lap time.
The Z06's? it was released by General Motors during recent set-up testing/development of the 2004 Z06 at the ring, its funny General Motors felt they needed to go all the way to nurburgring to test/develop the suspensions of the 2004 Z06 
I was impressed too, I knew the Z06 was good but not so close to the GT3, definately good bang for the buck.
I read here in the forum that, next month Auto Sport is testing the GT3RS at the ring so we will have some more info, though not official Rohl times, until then we can only keep guessing so your guess is as good as mine, who knows.
I was impressed too, I knew the Z06 was good but not so close to the GT3, definately good bang for the buck.
I read here in the forum that, next month Auto Sport is testing the GT3RS at the ring so we will have some more info, though not official Rohl times, until then we can only keep guessing so your guess is as good as mine, who knows.
Re: GT3RS Ring lap time.
I'm with Carlos, I don't think the GT3RS will beat the GT2's 7'46". In fact, I don't think it will break 7'50" the quicker acceleration of the GT2 is the deciding factor. My guess is 7'50".
As far as the Z06 testing on the ring, my guess is that only half the reasoning behind this was for actual suspension testing. The other for marketing. GM would love to have the world recognize the Z06 as a real contender for the European supercars - not just another big, sloppy 'Vette.
Mike
As far as the Z06 testing on the ring, my guess is that only half the reasoning behind this was for actual suspension testing. The other for marketing. GM would love to have the world recognize the Z06 as a real contender for the European supercars - not just another big, sloppy 'Vette.
Mike
Re: GT3RS Ring lap time.
The british mag Autocar ran a nice comparative test (Performance car of the year) where they had the CSL, GT3 and Stradale (as well as other cars) tested in the same conditions.
Something very interesting emerged from this test concerning tyres: the Corsa system seems to perform very close to a regular street tyre, because it has a very hard compound and it has more longitudinal "lines" to help it perform well in wet condition.The mag actually states that it doesn't perform significantly better than the Pilot Sport 2 on the 03 GT3 in the dry, but it does perform very well in the wet...(go figure)
They also tested the CSL both with the Cup tyres and the optional regular rubber, and found that the CUP really give a huge advantage, they measured 3.3 seconds difference on a 1 minute 11 secs lap.....
Given the facts above I would imagine the GT3 RS Ring time not to be dramatically faster than the GT3, probably something in the region of 7:48-7:50, which would still be 6-4 secs faster than GT3, not so bad in my opinion...
I would love to see the RS tested with the Cup tyres as well, than I would bet on a very good lap time, probably well under that of the GT2, something in the region of 7:43-7:44.
I'm also very curious at the lap time the Stradale might post, I know that usually ferraris are somehow less at ease than Porsches at the Ring, but I really hope for a good performance here (in any case this will surely be the first Ferrari to break the 8 minute mark at the Ring...).
Something very interesting emerged from this test concerning tyres: the Corsa system seems to perform very close to a regular street tyre, because it has a very hard compound and it has more longitudinal "lines" to help it perform well in wet condition.The mag actually states that it doesn't perform significantly better than the Pilot Sport 2 on the 03 GT3 in the dry, but it does perform very well in the wet...(go figure)
They also tested the CSL both with the Cup tyres and the optional regular rubber, and found that the CUP really give a huge advantage, they measured 3.3 seconds difference on a 1 minute 11 secs lap.....
Given the facts above I would imagine the GT3 RS Ring time not to be dramatically faster than the GT3, probably something in the region of 7:48-7:50, which would still be 6-4 secs faster than GT3, not so bad in my opinion...
I would love to see the RS tested with the Cup tyres as well, than I would bet on a very good lap time, probably well under that of the GT2, something in the region of 7:43-7:44.
I'm also very curious at the lap time the Stradale might post, I know that usually ferraris are somehow less at ease than Porsches at the Ring, but I really hope for a good performance here (in any case this will surely be the first Ferrari to break the 8 minute mark at the Ring...).
Re: GT3RS Ring lap time.
luigi,
our user nic posted in the german section that he spotted horst von saurma (editor of "sportauto") driving the GT3 RS and the challenge stradale on the nürburgring nordschleife yesterday!! both cars with pirelli corsa rubber. however, they didn't tell him any lap times -- we have to wait, the next issue of sportauto (street day oct-17) will feature a "supertest" of the GT3 RS. exciting!!
regards; zz
(here's nic's german language post: http://www.rennteam.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=15333&page=0&view=expanded&sb=5&o=7&fpart=1 )
our user nic posted in the german section that he spotted horst von saurma (editor of "sportauto") driving the GT3 RS and the challenge stradale on the nürburgring nordschleife yesterday!! both cars with pirelli corsa rubber. however, they didn't tell him any lap times -- we have to wait, the next issue of sportauto (street day oct-17) will feature a "supertest" of the GT3 RS. exciting!!
regards; zz
(here's nic's german language post: http://www.rennteam.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=15333&page=0&view=expanded&sb=5&o=7&fpart=1 )
Re: GT3RS Ring lap time -- NO SUPERTEST!!
very disappointed -- NO supertest of the GT3 RS in the actual issue of "sportauto" (published today) 
. they tested the audi S4 instead!!! 
they make some blah blah about how difficult it is to get the cars for the supertest and apologize (weird that the editor has been spotted on the ring with RS some weeks ago, see this thread), but NO word about WHEN or IF the RS supertest will see the light of day, not even a brief driving report for compensation. next issue will feature a supertest of the gallardo *SIGH*
. they tested the audi S4 instead!!! they make some blah blah about how difficult it is to get the cars for the supertest and apologize (weird that the editor has been spotted on the ring with RS some weeks ago, see this thread), but NO word about WHEN or IF the RS supertest will see the light of day, not even a brief driving report for compensation. next issue will feature a supertest of the gallardo *SIGH*
Re: GT3RS Ring lap time.
"I would love to see the RS tested with the Cup tyres as well, than I would bet on a very good lap time, probably well under that of the GT2, something in the region of 7:43-7:44."
Luigi,
i believe that 7.46 gt2 time was set with street tyres, and Walter says in Excellence was Expected that the car was not set up nor was he pushing... so perhaps an equivalent gt2 time w/ cups would be around 7.39....
Luigi,
i believe that 7.46 gt2 time was set with street tyres, and Walter says in Excellence was Expected that the car was not set up nor was he pushing... so perhaps an equivalent gt2 time w/ cups would be around 7.39....
Re: GT3RS Ring lap time -- NO SUPERTEST!!
Quote:
very disappointed -- NO supertest of the GT3 RS in the actual issue of "sportauto" (published today)
Sounds more like a technical problem or even an accident? Maybe HvS crashed the only GT3 RS showcar Porsche had available for the press?
I already know that the GT3 RS is in fact faster than the GT3 on the Nuerburgring Nordschleife but I'm also curious to learn by how much.
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