Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: X51 vs PCCB - Page1

Sep 16, 2005 2:03:48 AM

Targa Tim: Expert; Loc: Vancouver, BC, Canada , Canada; Posts: 1475, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 3, 2005

X51 vs PCCB

these are the two most expensive options on a 997S. I am wondering which option would you spend your money on and why.
X51 give 26 more horsepower and 0-60mph in 0.2 seconds less, while PCCB offers lighter weight at each corners and hence better handling (I realized that the original brakes are more than adequate for stopping power). So really, which one will you pick if you will track the car, and which one you think will have a better track time. Thanks.

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Sep 16, 2005 2:12:25 AM

Thoma: Veteran; Loc: Vancouver , Canada; Posts: 855, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 5, 2005; Reply to: Targa Tim

Re: X51 vs PCCB

X51

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Sep 16, 2005 2:16:13 AM

OCEAN: Expert; Loc: US; Posts: 1334, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 28, 2004; Reply to: Thoma

Re: X51 vs PCCB

Both ..............

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Sep 16, 2005 2:25:47 AM

Flashman: Co-Pilot; Loc: USA North Carolina , United States; Posts: 252, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 30, 2004; Reply to: Targa Tim

Re: X51 vs PCCB

Brakes are great on the S, I'd take X51 but cant bring myself to justify how much it costs for those additional german ponies!

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Sep 16, 2005 2:26:08 AM

Malmsteen: Pilot; Loc:; Posts: 493, Gallery; Registered on: May 16, 2005; Reply to: Targa Tim

Re: X51 vs PCCB

are you going to track the car very often?

i may go for the pccb if i dont track the car very often

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Sep 16, 2005 2:29:10 AM

AndyM: Senior; Loc: Durham, NH (UNH); Posts: 731, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 30, 2005; Reply to: Malmsteen

Re: X51 vs PCCB

X51. But for 16 grand, man, I'd go aftermarket before spending that much dough.

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Sep 16, 2005 2:39:25 AM

OCEAN: Expert; Loc: US; Posts: 1334, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 28, 2004; Reply to: AndyM

Re: X51 vs PCCB

What does after market do to warranty ?

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Sep 16, 2005 2:41:42 AM

996toomey: Co-Pilot; Loc: CA, USA; Posts: 194, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 10, 2005; Reply to: OCEAN

Re: X51 vs PCCB

I have X51 on order no brakes had to draw the line somewhere.

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Sep 16, 2005 2:43:45 AM

mcdelaug: Expert; Loc: Fort Worth, Texas , United States; Posts: 1921, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 3, 2004; Reply to: AndyM

Re: X51 vs PCCB

I think the GT3 has to be considered if tracking is a priority and you're willing to add 15-20K to the cost of a 997S. I realize it's a little more money and some more wait time.

mcdelaug

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Sep 16, 2005 2:49:05 AM

DaveC: Veteran; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 1068, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 16, 2005; Reply to: OCEAN

Re: X51 vs PCCB

Interesting question. You could make a "logical" argument that the PCCB enhance performance more in the area of braking (unsprung weight, resistance to fade), especially on a dollar for dollar basis, than X51 does in terms of horsepower gain. Shaving more seconds through later braking carrying more speed and without fade, than marginally increased straight line aceleration. A good question for the experts among whom I am not.

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Sep 16, 2005 2:50:23 AM

Avantgarde: Senior; Loc: City State; Posts: 708, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 6, 2005; Reply to: mcdelaug

Re: X51 vs PCCB

I too ordered the X51 without the PCCB, understand that the standard Turbo brake setup already does wonders on the track.

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Sep 16, 2005 3:21:47 AM

doc2s: Junior; Loc: boston, usa; Posts: 113, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 27, 2005; Reply to: Avantgarde

Re: X51 vs PCCB

for the "expeienced" driver on the track pcb. i was on the track recently and i saw a boxter (not an s) lap a ferrari stradale and a bmw e30 (late 80 to early 90s) with 6 cyl. m3 engine lap a lotus esprit.

late brakig and the ability to carry speed through the turns can easily offset the 26hp advantage.

my 2 cents are spend the money on de, replacing tires, brake pads if you plan on doing a lot of track time. the standard s brakes are excptionally good. the added gain from pcb will only be utilized by a well experienced track driver.

good luck with your order

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Sep 16, 2005 4:36:10 AM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12588, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: doc2s

Re: X51 vs PCCB

Definitely get the GT3 if you are considering track time and such an optioned up 997S...

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Sep 16, 2005 5:48:09 AM

Targa Tim: Expert; Loc: Vancouver, BC, Canada , Canada; Posts: 1475, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 3, 2005; Reply to: Grant

Re: X51 vs PCCB

Thanks everyone for the answers!

GT3 is out of the question for me as I need the backseat.

Still on waitlist for 997TT but likely will not do it as I cannot justify putting so much money on a car.

997S has more than enough power for my beginner skill level anyway.

I will probably pick PCCB over X51. Thanks.

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Sep 16, 2005 11:32:26 AM

Ferdie: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Europe , Germany; Posts: 8235, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 2, 2004; Reply to: Targa Tim

Re: X51 vs PCCB

Tim,

maybe you want to wait until the first driving expressions about the X51 come out.

I have driven the PCCBs, they have exceptional capabilities - especially on a track or during high-speed driving. Combined with the fabulous Michelin tires the stopping power of this car is tremendous and on the very topend of ANY roadcar!
On the other hand I suspect that the std. turbo brakes are great already. RC said that the difference stepping back from the PCCBs to the std. ones is very obvious but better make up your mind yourself.

The X51 is more likely to be used in everyday driving. My impression is that the powerkit is far better than the ones on the n/a 996-models and can rather be seen as another great alternative to 997 and 997 S with 325 and 355hp respectively. If the engine will provide similiar gasmileage and an even better power delivery, I'd be waiting a couple more weeks...

Bottom end I'd say a 997 with X51 AND PCCB would be a great combination, just equipped with a couple of further items aka sportseats and navigation and you have a tremendous car for day and weekend!

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Sep 16, 2005 11:41:34 AM

OCEAN: Expert; Loc: US; Posts: 1334, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 28, 2004; Reply to: Ferdie

Re: X51 vs PCCB

I read somewhere that the car handles much better on the track with the PCCB's becuase the weight on the wheels is so much lighter .

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Sep 16, 2005 12:30:39 PM

Ferdie: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Europe , Germany; Posts: 8235, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 2, 2004; Reply to: OCEAN

Re: X51 vs PCCB

Quote:
OCEAN said:
I read somewhere that the car handles much better on the track with the PCCB's becuase the weight on the wheels is so much lighter .

I couldn't compare it directly to a model with std. brakes. In theory this is absolutely true because the brakes belong to the body parts with unsprung weight.
The lighter those items, the more subtle the suspension can be. In combination with the -20mm suspension it is definately marvellous.
Anybody I asked about this item didn't feel a very different handling but this is yet to be determined in detail!

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Sep 16, 2005 1:01:27 PM

OCEAN: Expert; Loc: US; Posts: 1334, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 28, 2004; Reply to: Ferdie

Re: X51 vs PCCB

It said PCCB on a non S 997 made for better track times than a 997S without PCCB's ... do not remember what track , I will look for the article when I get time . It made me think twice about the weight of the TechArts 20's if I order the PCCB's . Kind of like a diet coke with creme filled donuts .

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Sep 16, 2005 1:01:34 PM

BC: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Cape Town , South Africa; Posts: 2586, Gallery; Registered on: May 19, 2005; Reply to: Ferdie

Re: X51 vs PCCB

Hi Targe Tim.
If you're going to track the car quite a lot then I'd say go for the PCCB. No fading and slightly better handeling.
The X51 is a good option, but for most the performance of the standard engine is enough already, although some may like the extra power.

To be honest, the only way to be 100% sure is if you go test a car equiped with PCCB, and then one with the standard brakes. Then you'll be able to decide if you think the car needs more power or not, and whether the PCCB is good enough or not and which option does the job better.

Good luck with you're descion in any case.

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Sep 16, 2005 1:05:15 PM

BC: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Cape Town , South Africa; Posts: 2586, Gallery; Registered on: May 19, 2005; Reply to: BC

Re: X51 vs PCCB

Sorry, spelled your name wrong TARGA Tim.

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Sep 16, 2005 1:51:56 PM

Trundle_GT3: Veteran; Loc: CA, USA; Posts: 1016, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 30, 2003; Reply to: BC

Re: X51 vs PCCB

PCCB 's offer an initial "bite" and pedal feel that is Phenomenal as compaired to the standard "S" brakes, not to mention 50% less unsprung weight!!

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Sep 16, 2005 2:06:55 PM

STRADALE: Rennteam VIP; Loc: NY , United States; Posts: 11075, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 9, 2005; Reply to: Targa Tim

Re: X51 vs PCCB

If you're going to track the car you'll void the warranty anyway so go aftermarket and get the same hp gains for a lot less and buy the PCCB's.

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Sep 16, 2005 2:25:14 PM

Dilinger: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Athens,Greece , Greece; Posts: 2034, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 23, 2004; Reply to: Ferdie

Re: X51 vs PCCB

Quote:
Ferdie said:
and can rather be seen as another great alternative to 997 and 997 S with 325 and 355hp respectively.

Ferdie what do you mean with the comparison between 997 and 997 S ??

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Sep 16, 2005 2:42:21 PM

krC2S: Junior; Loc: Boston,USA; Posts: 122, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 30, 2005; Reply to: STRADALE

Re: X51 vs PCCB

Quote:
STRADALE said:
If you're going to track the car you'll void the warranty anyway so go aftermarket and get the same hp gains for a lot less and buy the PCCB's.

WHAT? where did u get that from? are you sure?

several dealers sponsor PCA DE events so how can it void your warranty?

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Sep 16, 2005 2:43:09 PM

Futch: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: EU , United Kingdom; Posts: 4759, Gallery; Registered on: May 14, 2002; Reply to: STRADALE

Re: X51 vs PCCB

Quote:
STRADALE said:
If you're going to track the car you'll void the warranty anyway so go aftermarket and get the same hp gains for a lot less and buy the PCCB's.

I did not know that! Is that specific to the US?
My dealer actually encourages me to track the car!

He tells me, one cannot exploit the car on normal roads anymore, so track it.
As a matter of fact, the dealership itself organises three to five events each year.
Maybe it's dealer dependant and not factory dependant.
It would be a shame as those cars are great fun on the track.

Having said that, if it does indeed void warranty, just don't tell him that you were tracking!

Not that anything should go wrong anywhere, FWIW, it's safer than the open road.

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Sep 16, 2005 2:48:39 PM

Ferdie: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Europe , Germany; Posts: 8235, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 2, 2004; Reply to: Dilinger

Re: X51 vs PCCB

Quote:
Dilinger said:
Quote:
Ferdie said:
and can rather be seen as another great alternative to 997 and 997 S with 325 and 355hp respectively.

Ferdie what do you mean with the comparison between 997 and 997 S ??

The 993 powerkit used the 3.8 engine of the RS model instead the std. 3.6 engine. Therefore an increase in hp and torque didn't surprise - the price for this option was somewhat reasonable due to the different engine. To which extend it was the BETTER engine is unknown to me.

The 996 powerkits (320 hp for Mk.1, 345 hp for Mk.2) were sole modifications of the std. engine's induction and exhaust systems with different header etc. In the end the car became a different character, much sportier with more output at the topend, sacrificing torque at low RPM and, according to the few revies in carmags, with lower gasmileage.

The X51 in the 997 is, though relying on modifications on intake and exhaust as well, much better with improved torque in mid-range as well (so far on paper of course) and significantly higher hp output than the regular 355 hp model.
The S-model doesn't feel that much more powerful below 4500 RPM than the 3.6 and this setup is very, very strange for an engine with more displacement than its "weaker" brother.

I could imagine, though this is without proof, that the X51 engine might have been destined to be the initial engine configuration for the S-model - either from the beginning or after a facelift. Somehow I have the feeling that the X51 might be more complete than the 355hp model - which is a great machine already! The 325hp version seems to be quite adequate for a lot of people, so no reason to find it less attractive. Therefore you might count the X51 for another, pricey model variation and not only for an Exclusive option.
Just my 02 cents.

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Sep 16, 2005 3:06:06 PM

Dilinger: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Athens,Greece , Greece; Posts: 2034, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 23, 2004; Reply to: Ferdie

Re: X51 vs PCCB

agreed, will it be a powerkit fot base model??as it is simular to 996 mk2 engine?

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Sep 16, 2005 3:56:01 PM

Ferdie: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Europe , Germany; Posts: 8235, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 2, 2004; Reply to: Dilinger

Re: X51 vs PCCB

What do you mean?

The X51 package is based on the 3.8 M97 engine from the S-model, a powerkit for the std. car doesn't seem to be available by Porsche themselves.

There is one available from Wendland Tuning though, they received good comments by the press for their modifications.
http://www.wendland-tuning.de/
I am not affiliated with them

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Sep 29, 2005 6:22:26 PM

silvio: Newbie; Loc: Italy; Posts: 43, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 2, 2005; Reply to: Ferdie

Re: X51 vs PCCB

I picked the X51 on a 4S Cabrio. I'll try to attach pictures and you'll know why.
silvio

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