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Re: -20mm Questions - please help !
Seeing as I don't have one with -20 mm I am not qualified to answer, however let me guess.
+ better handling in general, a more neutral car that you can dance more at the limit (if you don't know what this means you probably shouldn't get the -20mm), although you'll get more grip probably the most important effect is that the car is more responsive and feels more alive.
- the car is more responsive so it's more of a handful and requires more attention, also the ride will be firm
+ better handling in general, a more neutral car that you can dance more at the limit (if you don't know what this means you probably shouldn't get the -20mm), although you'll get more grip probably the most important effect is that the car is more responsive and feels more alive.
- the car is more responsive so it's more of a handful and requires more attention, also the ride will be firm
Re: -20mm Questions - please help !
Quote:
mish said:
Thanks Yargk, well, these seem like MORE positive reasons to lower the car - afterall, surely it's about the driving sensations right?
Why didn't you go for it?
Good question. Answer: I don't have a 997, I'm waiting for the GT3. (and even if I did have a 997, I can't get -20 mm in the USA) 
Sep 11, 2005 12:18:53 AM
- Orient Express
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Re: -20mm Questions - please help !
A 20mm lowered car is guaranteed to scrape over just about every little bump or curb you drive over. Carlos has some good pictures of that.
If you don't mind scraping the heck out of the bottom of your car, and ruining the bottom lip of the front bumper cover, and scraping to bottoms of your exhaust pipes, not to mention no being able to drive up even moderately steep driveways, then the handling advantages are worth it.
If you don't mind scraping the heck out of the bottom of your car, and ruining the bottom lip of the front bumper cover, and scraping to bottoms of your exhaust pipes, not to mention no being able to drive up even moderately steep driveways, then the handling advantages are worth it.
Sep 11, 2005 12:23:42 AM
- Grant
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Re: -20mm Questions - please help !
Quote:
Orient Express said:If you don't mind scraping the heck out of the bottom of your car, and ruining the bottom lip of the front bumper cover, and scraping to bottoms of your exhaust pipes, not to mention no being able to drive up even moderately steep driveways, then the handling advantages are worth it.
A small price to pay for having a real sports car
Re: -20mm Questions - please help !
Quote:
Grant said:
A small price to pay for having a real sports car
I agree. My 930 is low and I hardly ever scrape it. Not even once on a 1000 mile road trip on unfamiliar roads. The truth is that you have to always be aware of it, but once you are you won't be surprised, you'll just slow down and figure out how to get around or over. I can understand why this might annoy some, but for me it's just part of ownership.
Sep 11, 2005 12:30:20 AM
- WBH
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- Reply to: Orient Express
Re: -20mm Questions - please help !
Quote:
Orient Express said:
A 20mm lowered car is guaranteed to scrape over just about every little bump or curb you drive over. Carlos has some good pictures of that.
If you don't mind scraping the heck out of the bottom of your car, and ruining the bottom lip of the front bumper cover, and scraping to bottoms of your exhaust pipes, not to mention no being able to drive up even moderately steep driveways, then the handling advantages are worth it.
Excellent point
Bet 99% of drivers can't achieve materially better times on bumpy mtn road w/-20mm vs PASM....and really wonder if inherent nervousness/edginess of a more track-focused set-up (i.e., smooth pavement optimized) is as balanced as PASM Sport mode for real-world bumpy mtn roads....
Sep 11, 2005 1:06:40 AM
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Carlos from Spain
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Re: -20mm Questions - please help !
The main advantage of the -20mm is how much better if feels and how much better the experience is, it handles so well, its a 100% sportcar. On the street the improvement on times is irrelevant, to small as would a GT3 be as well, but the difference at the wheel is night and day.
Interestingly, the -20mm 997S doesn't scrape on the bottom nearly as close as my 996 did with M30 and aerokit. The shape of the front bumper of the 997 is designed in a way that I was really surprised how good the ground clearance is... for such a car.
But the sportier steering and handling is not for everyone, the car is more nervous and sensitive to drive, as more focused sportcars are. I enjoy and appreciate that character on the street, but others may not. And the ride is stiffer than PASM in normal mode, but roughly equivalent to PASM in Sport-mode. For me, not stiff at all, perfect for a street car, but I can see others may find it unconfortable.
So its all a matter of what you preffer, what sucks is that US owners can't choose
Interestingly, the -20mm 997S doesn't scrape on the bottom nearly as close as my 996 did with M30 and aerokit. The shape of the front bumper of the 997 is designed in a way that I was really surprised how good the ground clearance is... for such a car.
But the sportier steering and handling is not for everyone, the car is more nervous and sensitive to drive, as more focused sportcars are. I enjoy and appreciate that character on the street, but others may not. And the ride is stiffer than PASM in normal mode, but roughly equivalent to PASM in Sport-mode. For me, not stiff at all, perfect for a street car, but I can see others may find it unconfortable.
So its all a matter of what you preffer, what sucks is that US owners can't choose
Sep 11, 2005 4:17:17 AM
- WBH
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Reply to:
Carlos from Spain
Re: -20mm Questions - please help !
Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
The main advantage of the -20mm is how much better if feels and how much better the experience is, it handles so well, its a 100% sportcar. On the street the improvement on times is irrelevant, to small as would a GT3 be as well, but the difference at the wheel is night and day.
Interestingly, the -20mm 997S doesn't scrape on the bottom nearly as close as my 996 did with M30 and aerokit. The shape of the front bumper of the 997 is designed in a way that I was really surprised how good the ground clearance is... for such a car.
But the sportier steering and handling is not for everyone, the car is more nervous and sensitive to drive, as more focused sportcars are. I enjoy and appreciate that character on the street, but others may not. And the ride is stiffer than PASM in normal mode, but roughly equivalent to PASM in Sport-mode. For me, not stiff at all, perfect for a street car, but I can see others may find it unconfortable.
So its all a matter of what you preffer, what sucks is that US owners can't choose
Carlos, thx for excellent summary
How would you differentiate steering feel/chassis balance of -20mm vs PASM Sport on a less than optimal surfaced mtn road vs a smooth pavement mtn road?
Sep 11, 2005 5:03:23 AM
- mish
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Reply to:
Carlos from Spain
Re: -20mm Questions - please help !
Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
The main advantage of the -20mm is how much better if feels and how much better the experience is, it handles so well, its a 100% sportcar. On the street the improvement on times is irrelevant, to small as would a GT3 be as well, but the difference at the wheel is night and day.
Interestingly, the -20mm 997S doesn't scrape on the bottom nearly as close as my 996 did with M30 and aerokit. The shape of the front bumper of the 997 is designed in a way that I was really surprised how good the ground clearance is... for such a car.
But the sportier steering and handling is not for everyone, the car is more nervous and sensitive to drive, as more focused sportcars are. I enjoy and appreciate that character on the street, but others may not. And the ride is stiffer than PASM in normal mode, but roughly equivalent to PASM in Sport-mode. For me, not stiff at all, perfect for a street car, but I can see others may find it unconfortable.
So its all a matter of what you preffer, what sucks is that US owners can't choose
Thanks Guys...Carlos, I just read this reply and your 'review' - both super posts.
I never considered Orient Express's excellent points about scraping the bottom at every bump etc. I remember even in my 2001 Bmw 330ci, I occasionally would grit my teeth whilst going over a bump!
Can I ask, why are US owners not allowed to get the -20mm?
Sep 11, 2005 9:16:47 AM
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Carlos from Spain
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Re: -20mm Questions - please help !
Quote:
VKSF said:How would you differentiate steering feel/chassis balance of -20mm vs PASM Sport on a less than optimal surfaced mtn road vs a smooth pavement mtn road?
The -20mm feels more direct, lets you know what the car is doing better, so even when the surface is less than optimal, the -20mm is more confidence inspiring. The problem with bumpy roads is that the bumps make the ride jumpy and if severe enough the stiff setup cannot cope with absorbing it all, but the PASM is just as stiff or more over bumps in the sportmode, so its no better. Where I am, the are mountain roads with fair surface, some excellent, and the -20mm really shines. But maybe in other places the mountain roads the surfaces are so bad that maybe PASM on normal would be better or even the standard 997 suspesnion. But over here, I haven't encountered any such roads were I would not preffer the -20mm. I hope I explained myself corretly, its tough to explain.
Sep 11, 2005 10:42:11 PM
- frayed
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- Loc: Austin, TX , United States
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- Reply to: Orient Express
Re: -20mm Questions - please help !
Quote:
Orient Express said:
A 20mm lowered car is guaranteed to scrape over just about every little bump or curb you drive over. Carlos has some good pictures of that.
If you don't mind scraping the heck out of the bottom of your car, and ruining the bottom lip of the front bumper cover, and scraping to bottoms of your exhaust pipes, not to mention no being able to drive up even moderately steep driveways, then the handling advantages are worth it.
Nah.
A 20mm lowered non-aero 997 should be very managable as it'll have more clearance than my 996 GT3. However, with the aero, you *will* have pretty notable issues.
An aero 997S with PASM has the same front lip height as my GT3, but the geometry of the front lip is a worse design (sticks out more). . . drop it another 20mm and you got some serious challenges street driving.
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