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    Aug 17, 2005 10:35:47 PM

    rfakhri Offline
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    rfakhri
    Loc: Bahrain , Bahrain
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    18" vs 19" wheels for cayman s?

    Hi guys . . . today I was at the dealer putting the specs for my cayman order. As I got to choose the wheels I asked the sales manager about something that I read somewhere about the 19" wheels on boxsters. I have read that 18" behaves better on the boxster. He said that this is true with the older models as they didn't have PSM. 19" wheels increases the under steer when it happens and adds more weight to the car, but with the newer models having the PSM and more powerful engines I shouldn't worry about this. Well to me, I can understand the under steer and the PSM, but the extra weight of the 19" will still remain there which will not allow the car to get the claimed Porsche performance data providing that this data obtained with the 18" cayman s wheels. What do you guys know/think about this?

    Aug 17, 2005 10:46:49 PM

    Eurospeed
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    Eurospeed
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    Reply to: rfakhri

    Re: 18" vs 19" wheels for cayman s?

    19" are more for looks. Decide what's best for you.

    Aug 17, 2005 10:49:02 PM

    lavaman23
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    Reply to: rfakhri

    Re: 18" vs 19" wheels for cayman s?

    I had a similar debate when I was speccing my E46 M3, 19" may not drive as 'pure' as 18" but 19" sure looks a lot better than the smaller rim - I eventually went for the bigger rims and was pleased with my choice. Just go for the 19' as you'll only regret it later if you didn't.

    On the Cayman, it's a no brainer - 19' all the way baby Cayman looks bleedin stupid with 18". As I'm going for a 996 GT3/Turbo, I have no choice but I think the 18' on the 996s somehow fill the arches much better than the 19' does on the 997/987s.

    Aug 18, 2005 2:11:10 AM

    Yan
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    Reply to: lavaman23

    Re: 18" vs 19" wheels for cayman s?

    I'm sticking with 18" on my order. I love the look of the 19" but after having seen the road conditions around the country I'm sticking with something that can take the more abrasive conditions (potholes, unevenness, pavement repairs , rough surfaces, gravel sections, the occasional curve, etc)

    Catalogues all show the 19" on the Cayman S and the Boxster S, but why do the standard specs not have these? As an Aero. & Mech. E., I'd like to think that they did their arguing (19" = better cornering yes, but slower, more road noise, increased gas consumption, etc)... and ended up deciding on 18" for their std. specs. I'd love to hear if anyone knows otherwise, that it was actually a marketing consideration.

    You can always buy 19" rims, but I guess that it'll be tough to get those 18" Cayman wheels without the car. Furthermore, one could always keep the 18" for winter tyres and 19" for summer.

    -Y

    Aug 18, 2005 2:40:27 AM

    MikeN
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    MikeN
    Loc: Arizona
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    Reply to: Yan

    Re: 18" vs 19" wheels for cayman s?

    Actually I believe one of Porsches top test drivers likes the behavior of the 18"s better than the 19"s. I pretty much agree with Eurospeed, 19's are more for looks. There are some manufactures that let big beefy tires do all the work and some that have a great suspension that actually uses what tires they have to the fullest....Porsche being one.

    I'm torn between the stock Cayman S wheel and the Carrera S wheel....I like the looks of both, wish I could see the Cayman wheel in person, that would probably decide it for me either way. One thing I have noticed is that 18"s make the stock Boxster/Cayman brakes look nice and big....move up to the 19"s though and they begin to look a little on the small side even though their some of the best in the world. So if looks are important this may be something to think about also.

    Aug 18, 2005 3:50:34 PM

    bubblegum
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    Reply to: MikeN

    Re: 18" vs 19" wheels for cayman s?

    It's true Porsches own test driver prefers 18's over 19' wheels. I'd be interested to know why and if it will make any difference to me as a keen driver, I think maybe it wouldn't be that apparent to amateur like me, the only dynamic reason I know for sure is the ride will be harsher. Anyone else care to proffer any other down sides.

    Aug 18, 2005 4:21:56 PM

    Grant
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    Grant
    Loc: Denver, CO , United States
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    Reply to: bubblegum

    Re: 18" vs 19" wheels for cayman s?

    I'd get 18's without PASM and then consider aftermarket coilovers if it were my order. I like simplicity (fewer things to break) and the wide range of tire choices in 18's (especially for the track) and the ability to setup my suspension the way I want without causing electronic incompatabilities...

    Aug 18, 2005 6:07:20 PM

    mbr129
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    Reply to: Grant

    Re: 18" vs 19" wheels for cayman s?

    Quote:
    Grant said:
    I'd get 18's without PASM and then consider aftermarket coilovers if it were my order. I like simplicity (fewer things to break) and the wide range of tire choices in 18's (especially for the track) and the ability to setup my suspension the way I want without causing electronic incompatabilities...



    Ditto. It's too bad they don't make a clean 5-spoke wheel in 18" anymore. I whish they sold the new Carrera classic in 18".

    Aug 19, 2005 12:14:44 AM

    LowPolarMoment
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    LowPolarMoment
    Loc: Boca Raton, FL
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    Reply to: mbr129

    Re: 18" vs 19" wheels for cayman s?

    Quote:
    mbr129 said:
    Quote:
    Grant said:
    I'd get 18's without PASM and then consider aftermarket coilovers if it were my order. I like simplicity (fewer things to break) and the wide range of tire choices in 18's (especially for the track) and the ability to setup my suspension the way I want without causing electronic incompatabilities...


    Ditto. It's too bad they don't make a clean 5-spoke wheel in 18" anymore. I whish they sold the new Carrera classic in 18".


    They do for the 911.

    Aug 19, 2005 10:29:18 AM

    GR
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    GR
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    Reply to: LowPolarMoment

    Re: 18" vs 19" wheels for cayman s?

    A smaller tyre sidewall will decrease the tyre's slip angle during cornering, i.e. the amount it can twist away from the rim to go straight on rather than where you want . On the fronts, this leads to earlier understeer but it is countered by earlier oversteer at the back. But despite the earlier onset of a slide with a large sidewall, the trasnsition from grip to slip is longer and smoother. In a nutsshell, the larger wheels grip more but let go more suddenly, which is generally deemed unpleasant.

    Then there is the increased weight of the larger wheels, which any engineer will tell you is not good. The less unsprung mass (wheels tyres, brakes etc.) the better the turn in.

    The differences were quite noticable when I tried the 17" and 18" wheels back to back when speccing my 986. Also on that car, the larger diameter tyres were proportionally wider at the back, which increased understeer but I am not sure on the differences between the new 18" and 19" wheels/tyres.

    And as you say, ride is compromised with the biger wheels but also, tramlining increases (when the car follows the camber on the road, rather than where you're pointing it).

    All the Porsche driving instructors I have met in the UK preferred the 17" wheels on the 986 and 996 C2 and C4 but I have not spoken to any regarding the 987 and 997. My guess would be that they prefer the 18" on the new cars

    So your choice depends on how hard you want to push your car and how controllable you like it right on the limit, compared to how it looks and rides. Personally the smaller wheels win for me.

    Aug 19, 2005 11:57:04 AM

    993Targa
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    993Targa
    Loc: ZH , Switzerland
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    Reply to: GR

    Re: 18" vs 19" wheels for cayman s?

    Get a pair of 18" for trackdays and 19" for normal use. The 19" look so much better (same as 17" vs 18" on 996/986) for me there is no question...

    Aug 19, 2005 4:44:32 PM

    bubblegum
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    bubblegum
    Loc: Leeds
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    Registered on: Aug 11, 2005
    Reply to: GR

    Re: 18" vs 19" wheels for cayman s?

    Quote:
    GR said:
    A smaller tyre sidewall will decrease the tyre's slip angle during cornering, i.e. the amount it can twist away from the rim to go straight on rather than where you want . On the fronts, this leads to earlier understeer but it is countered by earlier oversteer at the back. But despite the earlier onset of a slide with a large sidewall, the trasnsition from grip to slip is longer and smoother. In a nutsshell, the larger wheels grip more but let go more suddenly, which is generally deemed unpleasant.

    Then there is the increased weight of the larger wheels, which any engineer will tell you is not good. The less unsprung mass (wheels tyres, brakes etc.) the better the turn in.

    The differences were quite noticable when I tried the 17" and 18" wheels back to back when speccing my 986. Also on that car, the larger diameter tyres were proportionally wider at the back, which increased understeer but I am not sure on the differences between the new 18" and 19" wheels/tyres.

    And as you say, ride is compromised with the biger wheels but also, tramlining increases (when the car follows the camber on the road, rather than where you're pointing it).

    All the Porsche driving instructors I have met in the UK preferred the 17" wheels on the 986 and 996 C2 and C4 but I have not spoken to any regarding the 987 and 997. My guess would be that they prefer the 18" on the new cars

    So your choice depends on how hard you want to push your car and how controllable you like it right on the limit, compared to how it looks and rides. Personally the smaller wheels win for me.



    Thanks GR, It's got to be the 18's then for me, but the 19's in the promo. shots look so good.

    Aug 19, 2005 8:34:25 PM

    fritz
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    Loc: BaWü , Germany
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    Reply to: GR

    Re: 18" vs 19" wheels for cayman s?

    Quote:
    GR said:
    All the Porsche driving instructors I have met in the UK preferred the 17" wheels on the 986 and 996 C2 and C4 but I have not spoken to any regarding the 987 and 997. My guess would be that they prefer the 18" on the new cars




    Following that to its conclusion, they would surely have to prefer 17" wheels to 19" wheels for the Cayman!

    So why are there people out there who just can't wait for 20" wheels to become available for P-sportscars?

    Aug 19, 2005 8:48:05 PM

    mark34
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    mark34
    Loc: Austin, TX
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    Reply to: fritz

    Re: 18" vs 19" wheels for cayman s?

    People also put 24's on their Escalades...it's about the bling baby

    Aug 19, 2005 8:54:09 PM

    MikeN
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    MikeN
    Loc: Arizona
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    Reply to: mark34

    Re: 18" vs 19" wheels for cayman s?

    Quote:
    mark34 said:
    People also put 24's on their Escalades...it's about the bling baby



    There is a point where the wheels start to overpower the car and we're getting close to that here. Seen a few late model Porsches with greater than 19" wheels and IMO they look rediculous....but to each his own. I'm driving a Porsche.....not some pimp wagon or rappers delight.

    Aug 19, 2005 10:31:43 PM

    rfakhri Offline
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    rfakhri
    Loc: Bahrain , Bahrain
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    Reply to: MikeN

    Re: 18" vs 19" wheels for cayman s?

    I have no problem going for 18" or actually that is what I prefer except that I dont like whatever is available in 18" from Porsche and I like to stick to OEM options. I will probably end up with 19" sport design or Carrera S wheels. . . . Thanks for your views.

    Aug 20, 2005 12:34:18 AM

    GR
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    GR
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    Reply to: fritz

    Re: 18" vs 19" wheels for cayman s?

    Well interestingly, the Porsche instructor I spoke to most of the time hated the 16" standard 986 wheels. And I read that on the BMW Minis, the 16" wheel gave the best handling in a 15" to 17" range. As the manufacturers have to set up a one size fits all suspension (geometry, spring and damper rates, bushes etc.) do they optimise it for the middle sized wheel?

    Another thing I've noticed is that Bristol use 18" wheels with 285/40 tyres on their Fighter, which is a 220mph car. There is no 19" option. Now that is a company who pride themselves on putting engineering integrity over marketing (and are all the more brilliant, if eccentric, for it). Makes you wonder if 18" is the best compromise with current technology.
     
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