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Power and torque curve
As planned since it's an NA engine, powerkit kicks in beyond 5,000 rpm which questions it's use for open road really.
I plan to track the car and I also like to drive B roads in a spirited manner, so I guess that for me it makes sense, but agreed, gain isn't huge, although, for the first time, there actually is a torque gain, quite impressed beyond 5,000 rpm.
This will be a very peaky engine, kinda racy!
I plan to track the car and I also like to drive B roads in a spirited manner, so I guess that for me it makes sense, but agreed, gain isn't huge, although, for the first time, there actually is a torque gain, quite impressed beyond 5,000 rpm.
This will be a very peaky engine, kinda racy!
Re: Power and torque curve
Since power is a multiple of torque and rpm, it's typical that a more powerful engine will make more torque too. It's just that this torque gain is usually only higher in the rev range (where peak power is made). I don't know why you think this X51 will be peaky (or only really noticeable on the track) - it makes as much or more power and torque than the regular 3.8L at EVERY rpm 
Re: Power and torque curve
Quote:
Grant said:
Since power is a multiple of torque and rpm, it's typical that a more powerful engine will make more torque too. It's just that this torque gain is usually only higher in the rev range (where peak power is made). I don't know why you think this X51 will be peaky (or only really noticeable on the track) - it makes as much or more power and torque than the regular 3.8L at EVERY rpm
Yes I see what you mean, my point was that one will feel the difference of X51 in the high rpm range, but indeed, it betters the standard engine at any rpm and actually kicks in at 3500 rpm, and that was NOT the case for previous powerkit, the 996 X51 powerkit had worse elasticity figures than the standard car, this problem has been dealt with with the 997, good.
Also, about torque gain, is it really linearly related to power, the reason I ask is bc in the past, again with the 996, X51 added horses for unchanged torque, that actually kicked in later.
When you compare 997 X51 to 996 X51, and with the fact that it include the PSE, it's not a huge rip off anymore, it's just a normal rip off for car nuts like us!
See below power and torque curves for X51 996.
Re: Power and torque curve
Quote:
Fanch said:
Also, please enlighten me, how did they manage to get almost twice the torque of the standard 997S engine in the LOW rpm range (up to 2000 rpm) with a same engine displacement?
They don't. You probably looked at the power figures for the torque curves
Re: Power and torque curve
Quote:
ewi said:Quote:
Fanch said:
Also, please enlighten me, how did they manage to get almost twice the torque of the standard 997S engine in the LOW rpm range (up to 2000 rpm) with a same engine displacement?
They don't. You probably looked at the power figures for the torque curves
No I think they do, unless I'm really reading wrong here but I don't think so.
Up to 2000 rpm torque is up to twice the torque of the 997S, don't get it, but it certainly helps off the line.
Re: Power and torque curve
Quote:
Fanch said:Quote:
ewi said:Quote:
Fanch said:
Also, please enlighten me, how did they manage to get almost twice the torque of the standard 997S engine in the LOW rpm range (up to 2000 rpm) with a same engine displacement?
They don't. You probably looked at the power figures for the torque curves
No I think they do, unless I'm really reading wrong here but I don't think so.
Up to 2000 rpm torque is up to twice the torque of the 997S, don't get it, but it certainly helps off the line.
I look at the black dashed torque curve for the 997S at 2000 rpm. It's around 240 lb-ft. The black solid curve for X51 is around 258 lb-ft. I'd say, that's far from being twice the torque.
Jun 28, 2005 1:02:21 AM
- Silver Bullet
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Re: Power and torque curve
Are they calling cars equipped with the X51 "Club Coupes"? Check out the labelling of the graph! Should we expect weight reductions and other clubsport features too? Perhaps even different styling cues?
Woops - I just got to the 50th anniv thread and answered my own question in time to eit this post and make myself look dumb.
fugetabowdid.
Woops - I just got to the 50th anniv thread and answered my own question in time to eit this post and make myself look dumb.
fugetabowdid.
Re: Power and torque curve
Quote:
Fanch said:Quote:
ewi said:Quote:
Fanch said:
Also, please enlighten me, how did they manage to get almost twice the torque of the standard 997S engine in the LOW rpm range (up to 2000 rpm) with a same engine displacement?
They don't. You probably looked at the power figures for the torque curves
No I think they do, unless I'm really reading wrong here but I don't think so.
Doh! I think you're getting way too excited Fanch! (I always read the wrong figures too.)
Re: Power and torque curve
Ok I think I got the carbon fiber thing.. It's the air filter box.. It looks really nice but can anybody confirum about the different air intake mainfold please and what other visiual differece dose it has... And can any body tell me what are the upgrades..in other word what have they done..
Re: Power and torque curve
Quote:
Evo_Dubai said:
Ok I think I got the carbon fiber thing.. It's the air filter box.. It looks really nice but can anybody confirum about the different air intake mainfold please and what other visiual differece dose it has... And can any body tell me what are the upgrades..in other word what have they done..
http://www3.porsche.com/english/usa/clubs/pca/50thanniversary/default.asp
Re: Power and torque curve
Quote:
Evo_Dubai said:
Ok I think I got the carbon fiber thing.. It's the air filter box.. It looks really nice but can anybody confirum about the different air intake mainfold please and what other visiual differece dose it has... And can any body tell me what are the upgrades..in other word what have they done..
http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=114261&an=0&page=0#114261
Re: Power and torque curve
Fanch I am confused as ever now.. I know about this 50th anniversary 997 .. But still can't think of an answer..LoL..Sorry i'm a little slow..
If I go today to my dealer and ask him I want the X51 package to be in my 997S.. will the engine look like the one in the pix.. and what are the extra things they have done to it.. I read on porsche website about their speacial car but they did not say what have been upgraded exactly..
Thanks ..
If I go today to my dealer and ask him I want the X51 package to be in my 997S.. will the engine look like the one in the pix.. and what are the extra things they have done to it.. I read on porsche website about their speacial car but they did not say what have been upgraded exactly..
Thanks ..
Re: Power and torque curve
I am not 100% sure either Evo_Dubai as Porsche is still to release an official press statement re the powerkit.
However, it would make sense that the engine upgrade found in the club carrera special edition is the same as the X51 package.
Don't quote me on that, but I'm 99% sure that if you ask for X51 powerkit, you will get the carbon air filter and the different air intake manifold.
Not that everybody will see it, but you can treat yourself everytime you open the engine compartment!
However, it would make sense that the engine upgrade found in the club carrera special edition is the same as the X51 package.
Don't quote me on that, but I'm 99% sure that if you ask for X51 powerkit, you will get the carbon air filter and the different air intake manifold.
Not that everybody will see it, but you can treat yourself everytime you open the engine compartment!
Jun 28, 2005 1:31:19 PM
- 69bossnine
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Reply to:
Ron (Houston)
Re: X51 picture!!!
O.K., Either I'm ignorant, or you guys aren't terribly observant. On the LH horsepower side of the graph, each horizontal line tracks in increments of 27 horsepower, with a deviation of 1 h.p. here and there as you climb the graph. So, somebody please explain to me the leap on the graph between 299 and 355, a 56 h.p. increment. ?????? Is the graph flawed? Or do they fiddle with the increments to make the curves flow more smoothly, due to the variocam push at those approximate RPM's?
Jun 28, 2005 2:09:15 PM
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Futch
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Re: X51 picture!!!
Quote:
69bossnine said:
O.K., Either I'm ignorant, or you guys aren't terribly observant. On the LH horsepower side of the graph, each horizontal line tracks in increments of 27 horsepower, with a deviation of 1 h.p. here and there as you climb the graph. So, somebody please explain to me the leap on the graph between 299 and 355, a 56 h.p. increment. ?????? Is the graph flawed? Or do they fiddle with the increments to make the curves flow more smoothly, due to the variocam push at those approximate RPM's?
The y and x axis are not to scale, I think they wanted to show the values 355 and 381 on the y axis and fiddled around with it.
Good observation.
Jun 28, 2005 2:26:14 PM
- 69bossnine
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Reply to:
Futch
Re: X51 picture!!!
Quote:
Fanch said:Quote:
69bossnine said:
O.K., Either I'm ignorant, or you guys aren't terribly observant. On the LH horsepower side of the graph, each horizontal line tracks in increments of 27 horsepower, with a deviation of 1 h.p. here and there as you climb the graph. So, somebody please explain to me the leap on the graph between 299 and 355, a 56 h.p. increment. ?????? Is the graph flawed? Or do they fiddle with the increments to make the curves flow more smoothly, due to the variocam push at those approximate RPM's?
The y and x axis are not to scale, I think they wanted to show the values 355 and 381 on the y axis and fiddled around with it.
Good observation.
Your explanation still doesn't explain why they skipped from 299 to 355. They could have have inserted a line at 327 hp, and then they would have had an almost constant increment (27-28), and they still would have had 355 and 381 as peg-lines. I stand by my conviction that whoever created the graph dropped a line, and then plotted the curves without noticing the omission of an increment.
Jun 28, 2005 3:08:36 PM
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Futch
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Re: X51 picture!!!
Quote:
69bossnine said:Quote:
Fanch said:Quote:
69bossnine said:
O.K., Either I'm ignorant, or you guys aren't terribly observant. On the LH horsepower side of the graph, each horizontal line tracks in increments of 27 horsepower, with a deviation of 1 h.p. here and there as you climb the graph. So, somebody please explain to me the leap on the graph between 299 and 355, a 56 h.p. increment. ?????? Is the graph flawed? Or do they fiddle with the increments to make the curves flow more smoothly, due to the variocam push at those approximate RPM's?
The y and x axis are not to scale, I think they wanted to show the values 355 and 381 on the y axis and fiddled around with it.
Good observation.
Your explanation still doesn't explain why they skipped from 299 to 355. They could have have inserted a line at 327 hp, and then they would have had an almost constant increment (27-28), and they still would have had 355 and 381 as peg-lines. I stand by my conviction that whoever created the graph dropped a line, and then plotted the curves without noticing the omission of an increment.
Oh yeah absolutely, I didn't try to explain, because there is nothing to explain really, it's a simple mistake that's all.
No big deal really. But quite unacceptable from an official document nonetheless.
Jun 28, 2005 4:22:52 PM
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Futch
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Re: X51 picture!!!
Quote:
Fanch said:Quote:
69bossnine said:
It's just me being bitter that I couldn't opt the X-51 back when I ordered my car!! LOL!!
The powerkit is definitely not worth it if you already have a 997S, wait for the GT3!!!
Fanch Pounds79,000 on a 997s , that would be my total with the power-kit ........Too much ??..
throt.
Re: X51 picture!!!
Quote:
throt said:
Fanch Pounds79,000 on a 997s , that would be my total with the power-kit ........Too much ??..
throt.
Throt,
Only you can answer that question.
Despite what most users will tell you on the internet, at the end of the day, it's YOUR money, it's YOUR car.
I'm paying a similar amount of money for my car and although it's on the high end for a 911, if you compare it to the competition, to get a similar amount of performance, you need to pay even more.
997S powerkit is faster than a Aston Martin Vanquish which is supposed to be the flagship of the Aston Range.
You might lose on resale value, but c'est la vie.
At least, you will have a very special 911.
GT3 might be cheaper, true, but not as versatile.
As for the Turbo, it will be on another level of performance but also on another level of price, with the same kind of options as on a Pounds80,000 997S, you'd probably end with a Pounds120,000 911 turbo.
Re: X51 picture!!!
Quote:
throt said:
Thanks Fanch the kits tempting , very tempting with my business doing well .." Strike while the irons hot " your right its my decision..When is yours due for pick up ?..
throt...
Dealer said sometime end of September beginning of October.
Then, again, a dealer's word is about as reliable as 80s italian sports car.
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