Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: Who's on the 997 turbo list? - Page1

Jun 27, 2005 1:05:19 PM

carcam: Junior; Loc: nc, usa; Posts: 118, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 12, 2004

Who's on the 997 turbo list?

I am...but I'm not sure I can part with my 997S. I did go from a 996 Turbo to the 997 and have no regrets. I miss the extra power but really like the improved interior, ride, handling, refinement, looks, etc. I would definitely miss the sound of the PSE on the 997. I tried several different exhausts on my 996 Turbo and never could get the sound I wanted. It was an easy decision going from the 993 to the 996 Turbo but this will be a much harder choice because the 997 S is such a nice car already. Anyone else strugging with this impending choice?

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Jun 27, 2005 1:47:09 PM

STRADALE: Rennteam VIP; Loc: NY , United States; Posts: 11075, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 9, 2005; Reply to: carcam

Re: Who's on the 997 turbo list?

Quote:
kkeating said:
I am...but I'm not sure I can part with my 997S. I did go from a 996 Turbo to the 997 and have no regrets. I miss the extra power but really like the improved interior, ride, handling, refinement, looks, etc. I would definitely miss the sound of the PSE on the 997. I tried several different exhausts on my 996 Turbo and never could get the sound I wanted. It was an easy decision going from the 993 to the 996 Turbo but this will be a much harder choice because the 997 S is such a nice car already. Anyone else strugging with this impending choice?

I also went from a 996 TT to a 997. 2002 Black/black Turbo coupe to a Artic/black 997 S Cab. I'm on the list for the 997 Turbo cab. I'm actually on 2 lists. I did this because I will most likely trade in my 997 S cab because of the tax saving advantage (approx. $7,000) in doing so I will then buy the 997TT cab from which ever dealer gives me more money for the 997 S cab.

I know what you're saying about the PSE but when the 997 TT/ Cab comes out I think it's going to be so outragous I won't have any problem trading in my 997 S cab. The thought has entered my head a few times though. I thought about holding onto this car instead and saving some dough. But that's me because my car is new. And it's still exciting. I do miss some of the extra power the Turbo has. In the last 4 sports cars I have bought this is the first one under 400hp. I'm anxious for the Turbo !

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Jun 27, 2005 2:08:19 PM

Futch: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: EU , United Kingdom; Posts: 4759, Gallery; Registered on: May 14, 2002; Reply to: STRADALE

Re: Who's on the 997 turbo list?

Stradale has a point,
All that the new turbo will have in common with the 997S is similar looks inside and out.
Performance wise, they're just not comparable, and that's talking from experience with 993 and 996 series, the Turbo is just on another level.
Careful though, it doesn't mean it's better, a lot of purists actually prefer the Carrera to the Turbo. Depends what you prioritise.
Noise wise, the Turbo has a Turbo engine, so it will never sounds as good as a N/A engine, no matter what exhaust sytem you put on it. It's not that it sounds bad, it's different that's all. Think of it as a giant hoover. Also, Turbo engines have a lower max rpm, I think you lose between 500 and 1000 rpm, but obviously, 100 times more torque.
If you're an audiophile, you will definitely miss the PSE, but then, the performance gain and the badge will hopefully make up for it.
Good luck in your decision.

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Jun 27, 2005 4:12:25 PM

SoCal Alan: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Orange County , United States; Posts: 7268, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 6, 2004; Reply to: Futch

Re: Who's on the 997 turbo list?

I'm also on the list (#14). I'm not really struggling with the decision because a turbo is what I've always wanted. But since I already have a 997S, I might not jump on the turbo when it first comes out. I might wait a year to see if the turbo S is worth the wait.

I didn't think about the exhaust sounds on the turbo so I guess that's one more thing to think about.

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Jun 27, 2005 7:34:24 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59590, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: carcam

Re: Who's on the 997 turbo list?

Just recently, my dealer asked me if I want a 997 Turbo out of the first batch he gets because supply will be limited in the beginning. I couldn't decide and told him "no". I hesitated because of several reasons:

1. although 480 HP in the 997 Turbo are nice and what I actually expected, I don't think it will be enough to outrun the F430, new BMW M5 or the Lamborghini Gallardo. I honestly think that 500 HP should have been the MINIMUM power for the 997 Turbo, especially since the SL 55 AMG has that kind of power for over two years now.
I also don't like the possibility of a non-S/S strategy which has been discussed in the past, meaning: a 997 Turbo for slightly more money than the 996 Turbo and a 997 Turbo S with 520+ HP for substantially more money, both cars available at the same time (rumors come and go regarding this).
2. I already have a lot of fun in my 997 Carrera S and believe it or not but since I own this car, I haven't been outrun by anybody. I don't drive much at high speed on the Autobahn with this car, I mostly drive around some nice country roads where the 20 mm chassis, the lighter weight incl. PCCB and the nice PSE sound make my heart beat go up.

A 997 Turbo would be fun mostly due to the extra power and the 4WD but I'm not sure I really need (or want) that right now.
3. I don't have much time to drive my 997 Carrera S. I can't drive to work in it (customers) and I'm happy if I get one hour of driving it three or four times a week. IF I'm lucky. It would be the same with the 997 Turbo.
4. my 997 CS lease runs out summer 2007. If I want to get out the contract one year earlier, I'll loose a lot of money. Not to speak about the additional money I'd need for getting the 997 Turbo instead.

So here's my point: if Porsche would offer a 997 Turbo with 500 HP, the same weight like the old one and a sport chassis from the start, I might be tempted to order one blindly. But since it doesn't seem to happen...

Also 130000 Euro would be my LIMIT. With a few options, I bet the new Turbo will hit 150000 Euro and more. Ouch.

So I'll wait and see what is happening. I also have to see how my business is running and if I can afford a 997 Turbo. If I can't, I'll buy my 997 CS as soon as the lease ends and drive it happy til eternity.

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Jun 27, 2005 7:49:59 PM

sertag: Junior; Loc: italy; Posts: 138, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 14, 2004; Reply to: RC

Re: Who's on the 997 turbo list?

RC...
you just broke my enthusiasm to wait and get the 997tt.just because your points are very interesting and logic.my lifestyle is similar as yours,so after reading your thoughts i started to wonder that maybe i should just order another 997cs(maybe 4s dunno) with PK and that's it.
althoug i know that the 997tt is another leauge.but i don't need it...

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Jun 27, 2005 8:14:36 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59590, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: sertag

Re: Who's on the 997 turbo list?

Quote:
sertag said:
RC...
you just broke my enthusiasm to wait and get the 997tt.just because your points are very interesting and logic.my lifestyle is similar as yours,so after reading your thoughts i started to wonder that maybe i should just order another 997cs(maybe 4s dunno) with PK and that's it.
althoug i know that the 997tt is another leauge.but i don't need it...

Well, who needs a 997 CS?

Don't forget that I already OWN a 997 CS. For me it is more difficult due to the lease, business, family, kids, etc.

Maybe I should explain further: I owned a 996 Turbo, a car which was my dream car. It was fast, it was beautiful and I loved it. Unfortunately I sold it because I had a lot of stress with the second child coming up. Now that things are back to normal, I regret it very much that I sold my 996 Turbo.

IF I go for the next Turbo (997 Turbo), I want to keep this car for at least 4-5 years. So this car has to be extremely fast and extremely good regarding braking and handling. I expect ONLY the BEST and NOTHING LESS.
So I don't want to buy the first 997 Turbo and one year later, Porsche offers a 997 Turbo S. I also have to make sure that I don't put my family and the business in a financial risk by going for such a car.
I think I just wait and see what happens. It would have been nice to drive the first one (I drove the first 996 Turbo and the first 997 Carrera S with 20 mm chassis) but I'm not a multi-millionaire and the only reason I spend so much money on cars is passion and also a bit of insanity. I wish I could afford to order a 997 Turbo now but I can't. Too much risk involved, especially since I don't have ALL details about this car yet. We don't have deposits over here in Germany, if I want one, I have to sign a contract. And if I don't want the car, the only way to get out is to find another customer OR pay 20% of the car value as some sort of "punishment". No thanks, I wait.

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Jun 27, 2005 9:28:23 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12586, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: RC

Re: Who's on the 997 turbo list?

RC - I wouldn't let the rumor of a 997TS keep you from ordering an early 997TT. If I remember, your 996TT was highly "tuned" for extra power (more than 996TS). I think the tuning cost is less than the ridiculous premium charged by Porsche for the "S" and it gives more power anyways. Is the warranty the issue or do you just want to keep the car stock?

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Jun 27, 2005 9:59:26 PM

STRADALE: Rennteam VIP; Loc: NY , United States; Posts: 11075, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 9, 2005; Reply to: RC

Re: Who's on the 997 turbo list?

That's why I always buy these type of cars. The Turbo/ Turbo cab. is going to be sick.

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Jun 27, 2005 10:03:53 PM

kickdown: Junior; Loc: Dubai; Posts: 109, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 24, 2005; Reply to: Grant

Re: Who's on the 997 turbo list?

Hey RC...I think you should stick with the 997s. Its already an amazing car. I own one but im not quite sure of what you mean by PSE ( is it the regular exhaust ) and the 20mm chasis ?

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Jun 27, 2005 10:21:21 PM

STRADALE: Rennteam VIP; Loc: NY , United States; Posts: 11075, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 9, 2005; Reply to: RC

Re: Who's on the 997 turbo list?

The Turbo S coming out while I have a Turbo won't bother me at all. Didn't with the 996 either. I don't want to spend that kind of money for a Porsche every day car. Don't need more than 480hp either but would like more than the 997 S. Plus the all-wheel drive is something I really like. Having the Turbo (for me) is good enough. I'll be staisfied for a while. I love the 997 S but I'm more of a Turbo person. There's no way I'm going to be upset with the 997 Turbo when an S comes out. On the other hand while driving the 997 S there's no way I'm not going to be drooling for the 997 Turbo when it comes out. It's all a matter of what works best for everyone and degrees. The Turbo is going to be expensive. I think the 997 Turbo S (for me) is over the top for what I want in an everyday car. Just like the Turbo might be over the top for what you think you'll need or enjoy.

If I were you, I'd still get on the list in case you change your mind/ your situation changes. You can always walk away from the opportunity with no hard feelings I'm sure.

In NY the lease on a 997S would be something like $1800 a month. For $2000 you can finace the car. After 1 year with the lease your paying nearly $20k with the finance it's just over $20k. But w/ the lease you're kinda locked in and with the finance you just paid almost $20k. A $100k car only has to be worth $80k which it should. And with a 3 year lease you've paid over $50k of a $100k car. In 3 years in the US a 997 S should easily be worth more than half. $60k minimum. Cars that depreciate less because it's a new model in this case is better to buy and be able to get out whenever you want. I go through this every 6 months or so with different deals. My suv's are better to lease because there's greater depreciation (at least 50% in 3 years) and because I need 12-15k miles a year. I realize this could be very different in ROW.

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Jun 27, 2005 10:24:35 PM

beltar: Veteran; Loc: belgium , Belgium; Posts: 1232, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 15, 2005; Reply to: kickdown

Re: Who's on the 997 turbo list?

Guys I can't help it, but i drove my 997S cab the whole day today .I really couldn't stop.... The tempeature in belgium is 25 degr and more...
I only say it one more time (don't believe me): The 997S is just a gorgeous car, quick, beautiful, sporty and comfortable at the same time...it's addictive and .... ok i'll stop now

the one on the right is my big love

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Jun 27, 2005 10:29:51 PM

jlr: Junior; Loc: Birmingham, Alabama; Posts: 123, Gallery; Registered on: May 15, 2005; Reply to: carcam

Re: Who's on the 997 turbo list?

I'm not on a list, but I'm interested in the turbo. I love the 997S that I've had for about a month. It's the finest car I've ever owned, and I've owned quite a few. Nonetheless, what intrigues me about the past turbo models are how easily they can be modified to accommodate large horsepower gains through modification. Assuming the 997TT has the GT1 derived dry sump engine, it would seem to me that this would allow one to maintain the performance level of the car relative to other cars for quite some time.

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Jun 27, 2005 10:39:45 PM

davew (cincy): Veteran; Loc: Cincinnati, OH , United States; Posts: 1164, Gallery; Registered on: May 10, 2004; Reply to: STRADALE

Re: Who's on the 997 turbo list?

Gentlemen,

If you don't mind saying, how much earnest money did you throw down, and what percentage do you get back if you pull out? I am getting pretty close to signing up for a blind purchase myself.

Stradale,

That's a great strategy - I really like your approach to try to leverage a decent turn around on the CS Cab - very creative. I hope the dealers don't have so much interest in the initial TT offering that they don't care if they fill your order or not ... but either way, it sure beats a blank. Please let us know how it works out.

Also - if you don't mind - do you share kkeating's "no regrets" stance on dropping the 996TT for a 997? I am very surprised to read this...

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Jun 27, 2005 10:52:57 PM

med: Pilot; Loc: London; Posts: 394, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 4, 2004; Reply to: kickdown

Re: Who's on the 997 turbo list?

Some interesting and honest words by RC, its got me thinking,, only today I told my dealer to include me on the turbo waiting list (about 3 years) which I think would be about right when considering how new my 997 CS is, but to be honest I very rarely reach the true potential of my car, and only recently on my drive to France did I truly get the chance to stretch my car. Simply, our roads in the UK near London are not suitable for a fast driving (I mean 997 CS driven hard) so in my case the turbo will be hardly ever driven faster than my C2S.
I'll wait and see, maybe in 3 years I'll want the change.
In the real World IMO the C2S is probably fast enough.

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Jun 28, 2005 12:00:17 AM

Rami: Senior; Loc: Belgium; Posts: 760, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 6, 2005; Reply to: med

Re: Who's on the 997 turbo list?

After driving my 996TT cab for about 3000km in the last 10 days I can tell you without any hesitation: this car is ab-so-lu-te-ly awesome! I'm #2 on the 997TT(S) cab list here

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Jun 28, 2005 12:08:43 AM

STRADALE: Rennteam VIP; Loc: NY , United States; Posts: 11075, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 9, 2005; Reply to: davew (cincy)

Re: Who's on the 997 turbo list?

Quote:
davew (cincy) said:
Gentlemen,

If you don't mind saying, how much earnest money did you throw down, and what percentage do you get back if you pull out? I am getting pretty close to signing up for a blind purchase myself.

Stradale,

That's a great strategy - I really like your approach to try to leverage a decent turn around on the CS Cab - very creative. I hope the dealers don't have so much interest in the initial TT offering that they don't care if they fill your order or not ... but either way, it sure beats a blank. Please let us know how it works out.

Also - if you don't mind - do you share kkeating's "no regrets" stance on dropping the 996TT for a 997? I am very surprised to read this...

It's true that some dealers wouldn't care if they fill my order or not for the 997 TT cab. However, dealers want to make as much money as possible, obviously. My goal is to make more from the trade in w/ the tax advantage then selling privtely but that doesn't mean I am locked into trading the car into the dealer. There's always private sale. The dealers know this too. So if they want the 997 S cab. they'll be fair. So far it has worked out for me well on a few cases getting more in total (w/tax advantage)through the dealer than private sale but I've had the right cars/kept them mint/ etc. The dealer pays the full bank note and even though you've only made a few payments you're allowed FULL VALUE of trade to deduct from the taxes of the next vehicle. ie) 997 S cab worth $90k, 997 TT cab cost $135k, you only pay tax on the difference. (Only pay tax on $45k). Another ie) If I trade in my CS and get $200k and my F430 msrp at $200k I pay NO-TAX. Saving $16,000. After about 5 trade ins in a row figure the tax savings. Another good reason to finance not lease. That's why it's really important to know exactly what the market is like. A major plus towards getting a good number for my trade and why I went w/ the 997 S cab is - Next summer there will be few pre-owned 997 S cabs avaliable. Dealers know this and it should make my job of getting the most money and theirs of turning my car around for a profit fairly easy. Yes, it's true the market will be strong for the TT but w/ a somewhat rare pre-owned car it's very similar to how the Ferrari market works. The dealer is much more likely to want to sell you a new Turbo when you have a trade in that they can also make a few bucks on. My Ferrari dealer isn't selling anyone F430's unless they have a very decent trade-in that they can flip. They just make a lot more money this way. When the order guide for the 997 Turbo comes out I will bring my car to both dealers and depending on which one is higher I will give them the business and my 997 S cab at that time. In NY you have 1 year from the time you trade in to the new purchase to take advantage of the trade-in tax savings. It's called a "pre-trade". There will be approx. 4 to 6 months without the 997 S cab. payments. The $10-$12k in payments that I won't be paying will go towards the 997 TT Cab.

I got rid of the 996TT because I had imo one of the very best coupe's in the world. A Challenge Stradale. I really was interested in a convertible. I wanted to see if a convertible made my commute more interesting because it was getting old traveling 2 hours a day. It's been so much fun that there's no question in my mind that the 997TT will be a cab. for me.

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Jun 28, 2005 12:50:57 AM

Turbo Al: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Rochester, New York , United States; Posts: 2531, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 3, 2005; Reply to: Grant

Re: Who's on the 997 turbo list?

Quote:
Grant said:
RC - I wouldn't let the rumor of a 997TS keep you from ordering an early 997TT. If I remember, your 996TT was highly "tuned" for extra power (more than 996TS). I think the tuning cost is less than the ridiculous premium charged by Porsche for the "S" and it gives more power anyways. Is the warranty the issue or do you just want to keep the car stock?

I am starting to think this way about the 997T's, since I am still obsessing about whether to buy a 996TSCab now and then trade for a 997T(?S)Cab when it comes out. On one hand: If the 997TSCab indeed is several years away, then going for the 996TSCab now makes more sense to me, the one I tested was, to quote Rami, "ABSOLUTELY AWESOME," BUT I look at it on the other hand: If the 997T(non-S)Cab comes out spring of 2007 at the latest, I can get it then, and after the warranty is out, instead of having to wait for the 997TSCab, I would aftermarket tune it for alot more than the "S" would be tuned to, with my specs., and for alot more power and lower cost.

To keep me from going totally insane waiting for ANY T-Cab, I could stick a blower into my Bimmer (Active Autowerke has a big TT package for my 1999 M-Roadster with 700+HP). True it's not a 911 Turbo (nothing else is), but I find it hard to justify buying 2 TSCab's within a two-year span. I can afford it, but it's a matter of priorities, and I don't have enough experience in the sports car selling and trading game to get a feel for the financial issues. So far, dealers seem disinterested in formal trade-in arrangements based on residual values of the older car, and I don't need to lease, since I don't need to borrow and don't want to pay interest.

But I still see Rami's perspective-that 996TT is one great car, and the "upgrade" should be awesome, as well, regardless of HP and torque numbers. . . .

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Jun 28, 2005 5:32:54 AM

beltar: Veteran; Loc: belgium , Belgium; Posts: 1232, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 15, 2005; Reply to: Rami

Re: Who's on the 997 turbo list?

Quote:
Rami said:
After driving my 996TT cab for about 3000km in the last 10 days I can tell you without any hesitation: this car is ab-so-lu-te-ly awesome! I'm #2 on the 997TT(S) cab list here

you didn't drive trough "oostduinkerke" yesterday around noon?
I saw a 996tt cab pass by. Sealgrey

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Jun 28, 2005 7:46:50 AM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: RC

Re: Who's on the 997 turbo list?

Quote:
RC said:
1. although 480 HP in the 997 Turbo are nice and what I actually expected, I don't think it will be enough to outrun the F430, new BMW M5 or the Lamborghini Gallardo.

You do not really believe that the 997TT will not be quicker (straight line) than these cars, do you? I rather assume you believe that the advantage over these cars will be too small to justify the step to the 997TT?

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Jun 28, 2005 7:50:58 AM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: RC

Re: Who's on the 997 turbo list?

Quote:
RC said:
I also don't like the possibility of a non-S/S strategy which has been discussed in the past, meaning: a 997 Turbo for slightly more money than the 996 Turbo and a 997 Turbo S with 520+ HP for substantially more money, both cars available at the same time (rumors come and go regarding this).

That is indeed the major reason why I will not go for one of the early 997TT. I would really like either Powerkit+Sport Suspension or, alternatively, the GT2 if it will be offered with PSM. Also, the DSG might be worth the wait...

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Jun 28, 2005 9:18:26 AM

Futch: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: EU , United Kingdom; Posts: 4759, Gallery; Registered on: May 14, 2002; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: Who's on the 997 turbo list?

Quote:
MKSGR said:
Quote:
RC said:
I also don't like the possibility of a non-S/S strategy which has been discussed in the past, meaning: a 997 Turbo for slightly more money than the 996 Turbo and a 997 Turbo S with 520+ HP for substantially more money, both cars available at the same time (rumors come and go regarding this).

That is indeed the major reason why I will not go for one of the early 997TT. I would really like either Powerkit+Sport Suspension or, alternatively, the GT2 if it will be offered with PSM. Also, the DSG might be worth the wait...

It's always been like that.
Same for the 997S, after a year's production, more goodies, powerkit, MP3, upgraded PCM, etc. and next year, it'll be the same although to a lesser extent.
The powerkit for the Turbo came later than one year after the first batch I think, but this time it's different, the competition then was the 360 Modena, now, it's a lot more varied and I believe Porsche will release the powerkit in the second year of the Turbo.
It's very sad and very annoying, but it's also marketing I guess, but you can't help to think that those engines are actually developed to their powerkit power and then downgraded by a few hp to then make more bucks when selling powerkits.

My opinion is that 997S was originally developed to be 381hp and future Turbo developed too to its powerkit figure whatever it may be (520hp?)

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Jun 28, 2005 10:30:18 AM

Rami: Senior; Loc: Belgium; Posts: 760, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 6, 2005; Reply to: beltar

Re: Who's on the 997 turbo list?

Quote:
beltar said:
you didn't drive trough "oostduinkerke" yesterday around noon?
I saw a 996tt cab pass by. Sealgrey

Must have been one of the fewer places I didn't visit the last days Beltar

Mine is triple black, I will post some pics once the car is lowered and has the new rims installed.

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Who's on the 997 turbo list?

Re: Who's on the 997 turbo list?

Re: Who's on the 997 turbo list?

Re: Who's on the 997 turbo list?

Re: Who's on the 997 turbo list?

Re: Who's on the 997 turbo list?

Re: Who's on the 997 turbo list?

Re: Who's on the 997 turbo list?

Re: Who's on the 997 turbo list?

Re: Who's on the 997 turbo list?

Re: Who's on the 997 turbo list?

Re: Who's on the 997 turbo list?

Re: Who's on the 997 turbo list?

Re: Who's on the 997 turbo list?

Re: Who's on the 997 turbo list?

Re: Who's on the 997 turbo list?

Re: Who's on the 997 turbo list?

Re: Who's on the 997 turbo list?

Re: Who's on the 997 turbo list?

Re: Who's on the 997 turbo list?

Re: Who's on the 997 turbo list?

Re: Who's on the 997 turbo list?

Re: Who's on the 997 turbo list?

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