Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: 997 S - Zero to 60 mph in 3.9 sec - Page1

Jun 16, 2005 8:02:04 PM

STRADALE: Rennteam VIP; Loc: NY , United States; Posts: 11075, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 9, 2005

997 S - Zero to 60 mph in 3.9 sec

" At the test track, the Carrera S posted some awesome acceleration numbers: zero to 60 mph in 3.9 sec. and 12.3 to the quarter (we got a 4.4 and 12.8, respectively, in a previous test). These numbers were so extraordinary that we took the car to MD Automotive in Westminster, California, to measure the Carrera S's output on the dynamometer. No steroid controversy here, the car came away clean. The only explanation for the difference in acceleration times is that this particular engine had a proper break-in period (it had 5400 miles on the odometer as opposed to the 1200 miles on our previous test car).

Sure, the asking price for this car is high. But you get what you pay for with the Porsche Carrera S, which is the best sports car in the world under $100,000" .

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=31&article_id=1949&page_number=8

/uploads/111026-blue997s.bmp

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Jun 16, 2005 8:28:16 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12586, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: STRADALE

Re: 997 S - Zero to 60 mph in 3.9 sec

Quote:
STRADALE said:
" Sure, the asking price for this car is high. But you get what you pay for with the Porsche Carrera S, which is the best sports car in the world under $100,000" .

This could be true, but I also thought of the following challengers (that have higher performance specs, but may not be as good a sports car) in the under $100k bracket for a new car:

1. 996 GT3
2. Noble M400
3. Caterham CSR 260
4. Ultima GTR (might be slightly over $100k) see: http://www.ultimacars.com/home_page_fra.htm
5. Corvette C6 Z06
6. TVR (don't know all the model names)

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Jun 16, 2005 8:38:17 PM

Texas911: Senior; Loc: Houston, Texas - USA; Posts: 766, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2003; Reply to: Grant

Re: 997 S - Zero to 60 mph in 3.9 sec

The GT3 is not under $100K. The others are just one step above a kit car in quality, except for the GTR (not available in the US) and the Corvette.

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Jun 16, 2005 8:43:20 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12586, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: Texas911

Re: 997 S - Zero to 60 mph in 3.9 sec

Quote:
Texas911 said:
The GT3 is not under $100K. The others are just one step above a kit car in quality, except for the GTR (not available in the US) and the Corvette.

The GT3 is $99,900 MSRP

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Jun 16, 2005 8:43:20 PM

Mike S: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Somewhere , Taiwan; Posts: 7720, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 3, 2005; Reply to: Texas911

Re: 997 S - Zero to 60 mph in 3.9 sec

TVR's: Sagaris, Tuscan, 350C etc.

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Jun 16, 2005 8:44:41 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12586, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: Texas911

Re: 997 S - Zero to 60 mph in 3.9 sec

Quote:
Texas911 said:
The GT3 is not under $100K. The others are just one step above a kit car in quality, except for the GTR (not available in the US) and the Corvette.

I'm a bit confused by your post. The GT3 is less than $100k, the Ultima is the most like a kit-car and is available in the USA.

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Jun 16, 2005 9:06:28 PM

Futch: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: EU , United Kingdom; Posts: 4759, Gallery; Registered on: May 14, 2002; Reply to: Grant

Re: 997 S - Zero to 60 mph in 3.9 sec

Quote:
Grant said:
Quote:
STRADALE said:
" Sure, the asking price for this car is high. But you get what you pay for with the Porsche Carrera S, which is the best sports car in the world under $100,000" .

This could be true, but I also thought of the following challengers (that have higher performance specs, but may not be as good a sports car) in the under $100k bracket for a new car:

1. 996 GT3

Not as versatile, more raw, not as forgiving, but ultimately, the purer car, granted.

2. Noble M400

Dealer network not spread enough, reliability issues?

3. Caterham CSR 260

Track focused and weekend only.

4. Ultima GTR (might be slightly over $100k) see: http://www.ultimacars.com/home_page_fra.htm

Track only.

5. Corvette C6 Z06

Quicker but doesn't handle as well, even the americans here say it's a 0 to 60 car.

6. TVR (don't know all the model names)

reliability and build quality?

Overall, 911 is really awesome car, it scores in all area and ticks all the right boxes.

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Jun 16, 2005 9:15:41 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12586, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: Futch

Re: 997 S - Zero to 60 mph in 3.9 sec

Fanch - I agree with most of your assessments, but the new Z06 will not be a 0-60 car only. It has incredible brakes and is designed to be a road racer (not drag racer like many American cars). The Vette has been very sucessful at Le Mans, etc. lately, and I am expecting a VERY fast time at the Nurburgring to be announced shortly (much faster than 997S). Last year's car did 7:56 with 100hp less, worse brakes, transmission, suspension, chassis, etc...

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Jun 16, 2005 9:19:21 PM

Fred 993C4S: Junior; Loc:; Posts: 86, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 22, 2004; Reply to: STRADALE

Re: 997 S - Zero to 60 mph in 3.9 sec

Hi, my first post I think,

Doesn't 0-60 in 3.9 seconds sounds too optimistic?

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Jun 16, 2005 9:30:19 PM

sdy284: Expert; Loc: Wisconsin, USA; Posts: 1348, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 7, 2005; Reply to: Fred 993C4S

Re: 997 S - Zero to 60 mph in 3.9 sec

Quote:
Fred 993C4S said:
Hi, my first post I think,

Doesn't 0-60 in 3.9 seconds sounds too optimistic?

...they're not guessing here...those are hard #'s that they recorded

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Jun 16, 2005 11:07:43 PM

Silver Bullet: Veteran; Loc: Canada; Posts: 1126, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 24, 2004; Reply to: sdy284

Re: 997 S - Zero to 60 mph in 3.9 sec

As I recall, that 3.9 sec time has been hotly contested on this and other Porsche Forums. It is remarkable enough to not be believable. Even if it is real, none of us would want to put our 911's through that kind of a torture test. You can bet that they wrenched every bit of power out of that engine, taking quite a toll on the clutch, synchros, etc.

I remain VERY skeptical.

Having said that, the C2S is a VERY fast car.

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Jun 16, 2005 11:26:23 PM

Futch: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: EU , United Kingdom; Posts: 4759, Gallery; Registered on: May 14, 2002; Reply to: Grant

Re: 997 S - Zero to 60 mph in 3.9 sec

Quote:
Grant said:
Fanch - I agree with most of your assessments, but the new Z06 will not be a 0-60 car only. It has incredible brakes and is designed to be a road racer (not drag racer like many American cars). The Vette has been very sucessful at Le Mans, etc. lately, and I am expecting a VERY fast time at the Nurburgring to be announced shortly (much faster than 997S). Last year's car did 7:56 with 100hp less, worse brakes, transmission, suspension, chassis, etc...

Grant,
My bad, you are actually 100% right, I thought you were talking about the C6, not the Z06.
The Z06 indeed will, IMHO be much faster than the 911S on and off the track.
I was telling Ron at dinner that if they made it in France, I would actually consider it. Just consider though, interior quality is unfortunately appauling, maybe better in the Z06 than the C6, I hope.

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Jun 17, 2005 12:27:43 AM

SrfCity: Expert; Loc: Orange County, CA; Posts: 1339, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 21, 2004; Reply to: Futch

Re: 997 S - Zero to 60 mph in 3.9 sec

Didn't Car and Driver record 0 - 60 times at about 3.9?

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Jun 17, 2005 1:50:39 AM

SoCal Alan: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Orange County , United States; Posts: 7268, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 6, 2004; Reply to: SrfCity

Re: 997 S - Zero to 60 mph in 3.9 sec

Quote:
SrfCity said:
Didn't Car and Driver record 0 - 60 times at about 3.9?

I don't think so. I think it was only Road & Track.

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Jun 17, 2005 2:18:04 AM

Moogle: Rennteam Master; Loc: Bay Area , United States; Posts: 5019, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 9, 2003; Reply to: SoCal Alan

Re: 997 S - Zero to 60 mph in 3.9 sec

american magazines aren't worth the paper they are printed on

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Jun 17, 2005 2:50:40 AM

Texas911: Senior; Loc: Houston, Texas - USA; Posts: 766, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2003; Reply to: Moogle

Re: 997 S - Zero to 60 mph in 3.9 sec

The GT3 is $99,900? Oh that's not anywhere near over $100K is it? Add the destination and its over $100K. Satisfied?

I thought the GTR was the Nissan GTR that rumor has it will be coming as an Infinity model.

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Jun 17, 2005 3:35:49 AM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: Moogle

Re: 997 S - Zero to 60 mph in 3.9 sec

Quote:
Moogle said:
american magazines aren't worth the paper they are printed on

I disagree!

They are worth it to teenage boys fantasizing about the cars they want someday.

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Jun 17, 2005 3:38:27 AM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: MMD

Re: 997 S - Zero to 60 mph in 3.9 sec

I have a question:

If you give an experienced track driver a well-broken in 997S and tell him to destroy the clutch and drive train if he has to just to get the best 0-60 time, can he get 3.9 secs?

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Jun 17, 2005 4:01:20 AM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12586, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: Texas911

Re: 997 S - Zero to 60 mph in 3.9 sec

Quote:
Texas911 said:
The GT3 is $99,900? Oh that's not anywhere near over $100K is it? Add the destination and its over $100K. Satisfied?

I thought the GTR was the Nissan GTR that rumor has it will be coming as an Infinity model.

Well, if you're going to get picky, then figure in the fact that it's possible to buy these cars for under MSRP with some careful negotiation, but then you'll tell me that doesn't include tax and license charges, so I guess I can't win

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Jun 17, 2005 4:51:14 AM

mcdelaug: Expert; Loc: Fort Worth, Texas , United States; Posts: 1919, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 3, 2004; Reply to: MMD

Re: 997 S - Zero to 60 mph in 3.9 sec

Quote:
MMD said:
I disagree! They are worth it to teenage boys fantasizing about the cars they want someday.

Yeah MMD, I never read them now, but when I was in grade school these things were something to read again and again, dreaming about all the exotics on their pages. At that age, it was all fantasy anyway, so the lack of objectivity or detail in the writing wasn't much of an issue. Now that you can actaully consider buying some of these things you want real info...

mcdelaug

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Jun 17, 2005 1:03:06 PM

easy_rider911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 22190, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 8, 2004; Reply to: mcdelaug

Re: 997 S - Zero to 60 mph in 3.9 sec

Over the years I've learned to take these kind of stats with a pinch or two of salt...I would be surprised if Porsche has overstated the 0-62mph time by 0.9 seconds otherwise they would be knowingly downplaying a strong selling point.

In the UK, we have some pretty good car magazines but I still wouldn't rely on them...I don't know what the credibility of US magazines is like. None of them are written with the rigour and editorial scrutiny of the Financial Times, the Economist or the Wall Street Journal...

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Jun 17, 2005 1:39:03 PM

br d: Co-Pilot; Loc: Essex UK; Posts: 160, Gallery; Registered on: May 28, 2005; Reply to: easy_rider911

Re: 997 S - Zero to 60 mph in 3.9 sec

Quote:
easy_rider911 said:
Over the years I've learned to take these kind of stats with a pinch or two of salt...I would be surprised if Porsche has overstated the 0-62mph time by 0.9 seconds otherwise they would be knowingly downplaying a strong selling point.

The 0 - 62mph is quoted at 4.8 easy rider, but the 3.9 relates to 0 - 60mph. I agree the figure seems unreliable but there are quite substantial differences between 0 - 60 and 0 - 62 figures for fast cars. I currently have an M3 (911S on Sept 1st, Woo Hoo!) and taking a rough average of the fiures I've seen it runs 5.2 for 0 - 62 and 4.7/8 for 0 - 60. I would guess the 911S 0 - 60 would be around 4.4 maybe 4.3. Does that sound about right?

Although apparently Porsche are conservative with their 0 - 62's so maybe even a 0 - 60 of 4.2? Who knows!

br d

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Jun 17, 2005 2:51:38 PM

STRADALE: Rennteam VIP; Loc: NY , United States; Posts: 11075, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 9, 2005; Reply to: SoCal Alan

Re: 997 S - Zero to 60 mph in 3.9 sec

Other magazines have recorded approx. the same numbers. I remember reading about one of them who was so surprised at the 0-60 time they called a sister publication to inquire. Their sister publication verified the same type of results. I agree the time seems remarkable but Road & Track is one of the better US mag if not the best. I believe they want to be as accurate as possible. And who better than Porsche to be the ones to make the best out of technology to get awesome acceleration numbers. Remember this is a rear engined car capable of awesome launches. I'm more of the inclination to believe the number than think it's a conspiracy or a mistake.

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Jun 17, 2005 4:06:49 PM

964C2: Expert; Loc: Dallas, TX , United States; Posts: 1825, Gallery; Registered on: May 11, 2004; Reply to: STRADALE

Re: 997 S - Zero to 60 mph in 3.9 sec

I would think the actual numbers are real and not a fabrication....the question should be what kind of abuse did the cars take to achieve some of those numbers.

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Jun 17, 2005 4:57:51 PM

anotheruser: Newbie; Loc: USA; Posts: 40, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 23, 2005; Reply to: br d

Re: 997 S - Zero to 60 mph in 3.9 sec

Back in my gearhead days you could blueprint an engine and get an extra tenth or two out of it. I imagine that today's build quality is so high that kind of variation is impossible in shipping engines, but is it possible they just got a very tight engine?

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Jun 17, 2005 5:01:20 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: 964C2

Why 3.9 is hard to duplicate:

Quote:
964C2 said:
I would think the actual numbers are real and not a fabrication....the question should be what kind of abuse did the cars take to achieve some of those numbers.

take a brand new broken-in car that hasn't been abused.

Get a very good professional driver to beat the cr*p out of it to get the 3.9 seconds.

he gets 3.9 seconds, but the abused car will not be the same.

The result is THAT car will be seriously damaged and will not do it again in 3.9 seconds.

So you need a good driver with a new car, who can destroy the car and get 3.9 in ONE TRY.

If he misses 3.9 and has to try again, he'll need a new car to even hope of doing it.

That's my guess.

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Jun 17, 2005 7:04:44 PM

jboyko: Co-Pilot; Loc: NEWARK, NJ; Posts: 168, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 5, 2004; Reply to: MMD

Re: Why 3.9 is hard to duplicate:

Maybe Porsche did something to the car. It did take over 30 years for Delorean to admit that the 64 Pontiac GTO Magazine test car had a Stroker 421 motor instead of the 389 when it beat the Ferrari GTO.

jb

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Jun 17, 2005 7:28:03 PM

PS CA: Veteran; Loc: California , United States; Posts: 833, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 13, 2003; Reply to: jboyko

Re: Why 3.9 is hard to duplicate:

Quote:
jboyko said:
Maybe Porsche did something to the car. It did take over 30 years for Delorean to admit that the 64 Pontiac GTO Magazine test car had a Stroker 421 motor instead of the 389 when it beat the Ferrari GTO.

jb

The guys at Road & Track were suspicious enough to put the car on a dynamometer. It tested clean. Just a fast car that was probably abused to get those kind of numbers.

Phil

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Jun 17, 2005 8:12:12 PM

69bossnine: Rennteam Pro; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 2028, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2005; Reply to: PS CA

Re: Why 3.9 is hard to duplicate:

Is it impossible? No. Is it probably more abusive of a launch and 1-2 shift than Porsche would do for its own benchmark test? Yes. Is it questionable simply because a U.S. magazine did it? That's just stupid. The testing equipment they use is very accurate. It's the act of going 0-60 that has a ton of "variables" in it. I believe they nailed a good run by really hammering the driveline, and the tires stuck on a good surface. They had no reason to out and out lie. Any suggestion that it's false, just because it's not a pinky-wagging Euro rag, is laughable.

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Jun 17, 2005 8:44:20 PM

SVNSVN: Rennteam Pro; Loc: CA, USA; Posts: 2994, Gallery; Registered on: May 22, 2005; Reply to: 69bossnine

Re: Why 3.9 is hard to duplicate:

I agree!

FWIW, 69bossnine- I really appreciate and enjoy your contribution to this forum.

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997 S - Zero to 60 mph in 3.9 sec

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Re: 997 S - Zero to 60 mph in 3.9 sec

Re: 997 S - Zero to 60 mph in 3.9 sec

Re: 997 S - Zero to 60 mph in 3.9 sec

Why 3.9 is hard to duplicate:

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