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    C4 faster than C2

    According to this article, Rohrl said the C4 was faster around the Nuburgring than the C2!
    Find it hard to believe.
    Article states thanks to better traction which is nonsense of course.
    For what it's worth, it might be faster but only thanks to wider tyres and wider rear track, but still...
    Weird.

    http://www.channel4.com/4car/road-tests/driving-impressions-2005/P/porsche/911/carrera-4.html

    Re: C4 faster than C2

    i want to see a multiple tests done by different people and see if they arrive at the same conclusion, until then this is just about as good as autocar saying the M5 is faster than the F430

    Re: C4 faster than C2

    Nonsense. The 996C4 was 6 seconds "slower" than the 996C2 around the ring and it was only 55kg heavier. AWD 911 versions are always slower at the track than the RDW versions in the hands of pro's.

    Re: C4 faster than C2

    ...on another forum, there is a post form someone who was at the C4 test in Monte Carlo. I am quoting him:

    ''Over dinner, none other than Walter Rohrl himself (who was along for the event) said that the C4S's time around the nurburgring is identical to the regular Carrera. so there's no real weight penalty to speak of.''

    So....
    We will need more tests...

    Re: C4 faster than C2

    Quote:
    Mike S said:
    i want to see a multiple tests done by different people and see if they arrive at the same conclusion, until then this is just about as good as autocar saying the M5 is faster than the F430



    No bad word about the new BMW M5, I just love the car

    Re: C4 faster than C2

    WELL I QUOTE something from the article that sums up everything you need to know about Carrera 4 and 4S


    "The standard Carrera 4 costs Pounds62,930 and the Carrera 4 S Pounds69,900. That's Pounds4550 and Pounds4900 more respectively than their two-wheel drive counterparts, which would be worth every penny if the C4 were a notably better car to drive than its rear-drive only sibling.

    It isn't."



    Thats about all i ll say

    Re: C4 faster than C2

    Of course Rohrl would say that, he works for Porsche!

    Re: C4 faster than C2

    they just dont have reasons to attract customers to the 4 and 4S that they put Rohl saying bul*[censored] for them

    Re: C4 faster than C2

    Quote:
    Dilinger said:
    WELL I QUOTE something from the article that sums up everything you need to know about Carrera 4 and 4S


    "The standard Carrera 4 costs Pounds62,930 and the Carrera 4 S Pounds69,900. That's Pounds4550 and Pounds4900 more respectively than their two-wheel drive counterparts, which would be worth every penny if the C4 were a notably better car to drive than its rear-drive only sibling.

    It isn't."



    Thats about all i ll say



    That comment is idiotic. Of course it's a better car - given the appropriate circumstances. For example, the NorthEast of the US, in winter !
    Granted, in *most* circumstances, it's not the better car...

    Re: C4 faster than C2

    It was the C4S, not the C4...turbo brakes, tires and suspension can make the difference compared to a base C2. Also Walter used to race AWD Audi's and knows how to get the maximum out of AWD....

    Re: C4 faster than C2

    Quote:
    gnil said:
    ''Over dinner, none other than Walter Rohrl himself (who was along for the event) said that the C4S's time around the nurburgring is identical to the regular Carrera. so there's no real weight penalty to speak of.''



    Thats more of a "political" statement. They are launching the AWD and he has to weight very carefully what he says about it As a matter of fact, the weight penalty is exactly the same as the 996C2 vs 996C4, the latter being 6 seconds slower in the N'ring

    But I wouldn't bother too much with lap times of RWD vs AWD 911's, in the dry and under the hands of a pro, the difference in lap times is always going to be obvious (there is a weight penalty in the AWD, there is greater powerloss at the wheel from greater friction of moving parts of the AWD system, and there is less sportier handling and more undesteer), but lets remember that in the hand of average drivers the lap times may be the same since the AWD is easier to drive at the limit and average drivers may not be able to extarct the potential of the RWD. So in the end its the same IMO

    The difference is in "feel" and sportiness vs grip in slippery conditions and easier at the limit, but I have onwed the AWD C4 and now that I have the RWD I will NEVER go back to AWD (at least this AWD system). The steering of the RWD, the character through the corners, the "live" rear end, etc. Its much more fun and rewarding for me, and the 997 has so much grip already that the need for AWD is not as big as in the 996. For others it may be different and preffer the safer AWD, both are great and valid options. Just depends which is best for each of us.

    Re: C4 faster than C2

    Carlos,

    do you really feel the AWD in normal dailly driving?

    I did have a 996 tt and I felt it only in narrow twists when pushing to strong. Then I've got understeering.

    As I have understood, only 5% are on the front wheels to stabilize the straight running. The AWD sends up to 40% only if it necessary. If that is correct I have only AWD in case of loosing grip at the rear tires. Am I right? This more grip could help me in narrow twists. In that case I would be even faster.

    AM

    Re: C4 faster than C2


    No wonder why people are still in love with the 2.7l RS even if the car has "rather modest" power (210 hp if I remember correctly)...

    Re: C4 faster than C2

    People love any version of the 911 RS because they are very very rare and command high prices as collector cars.

    Re: C4 faster than C2

    Quote:
    mumbasic said:
    Carlos,

    do you really feel the AWD in normal dailly driving?



    Definately, even in normal driving, though my normal driving is quite spirited thanks to the roads we have here. The steering is different, more direct, responsive and more sensitive, and the setup is more neutral-to-oversteer than neutral-to-understeer, noticeable in normal spirited driving.
    I could definately live with the AWD, its not bad at all, but if given the choice the RWD is definately more fun and sporty. And I find the 997 to have tons of grip already, though maybe the rear LSD helps as well. But like I said this is not to say the steering of the AWD is numb and that its nose heavy car, far from it, but when compared to the RWD there is a noticeable difference. The Turbo however with such an increase in power benefits more from the AWD, since thats a lot of power you are trying to apply to the road.


    Quote:
    mumbasic said:
    As I have understood, only 5% are on the front wheels to stabilize the straight running. The AWD sends up to 40% only if it necessary. If that is correct I have only AWD in case of loosing grip at the rear tires. Am I right? This more grip could help me in narrow twists. In that case I would be even faster.
    AM



    That is correct, but you can feel it in spirited driving, not only when you are to the point of sliding around. The PSM for example doesn't allow any significant loss of grip of the rears, yet the AWD still comes into play, so its also before the PSM limits. Otherwise a car with PSM would negate the AWD action.

    In a twisty road, it depends on the driver, the better driver you are, the more the RWD is going to favor you and can take advantage of the RWD advantage, but for average drivers it would be a tie or the AWD may be faster because its easier and more forgiving to drive at the limit so an average driver can push the AWD futher than the RWD. This also depends on the level of grip of the surface and also of the amount of power the car has, the more power the more it favors the AWD setup.
    Its like the 996TT manual and 996TT Tip, the Tip may be slower technically because its heavier and only has 5 gears, but in the hands of an average driver, the Tip may be faster at the trcak because its easier to drive and to concentrate on using its HP. However the manual may be more fun

    Re: C4 faster than C2

    I think people are counting on Walter Rogrl opinion too much. No doubt that he is a fantastic driver but always remember he is getting paid by Porsche. So whatever make the products look good he'll say it. Just my 2 cents.

    Re: C4 faster than C2

    Quote:
    Ron (Houston) said:
    I think people are counting on Walter Rogrl opinion too much. No doubt that he is a fantastic driver but always remember he is getting paid by Porsche. So whatever make the products look good he'll say it. Just my 2 cents.



    Ron I see you realise and acknowledge the real world

    Right on..

    throt.

    Re: C4 faster than C2

    2.7RS is simply more fun to drive than a "modern" 911.

    Unless you have experience of driving a 911 with INSTANT
    throttle response,low weight,no power steering, you really cant describe it to those who have no experince behind the wheel. Its unworldly fun and even though a 997 is faster, brakes better, handles better, yadda yadda, its mass and
    feel is just not as much fun.

    The RS feels like a wickedly raw aggresive tool of war, the 997 is just ungodly competent and smooth to perfection.

    Ask Grant, Im sure he can enlighten you about it!

    Re: C4 faster than C2

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    2.7RS is simply more fun to drive than a "modern" 911.

    Unless you have experience of driving a 911 with INSTANT
    throttle response,low weight,no power steering, you really cant describe it to those who have no experince behind the wheel. Its unworldly fun and even though a 997 is faster, brakes better, handles better, yadda yadda, its mass and
    feel is just not as much fun.

    The RS feels like a wickedly raw aggresive tool of war, the 997 is just ungodly competent and smooth to perfection.

    Ask Grant, Im sure he can enlighten you about it!


    Thanks Jim My 73RS is a replica, so I don't own it for its rarity nor collectible value. Of course, my car is "upgraded" with lower weight, increased power, braking and suspension from the original. It does, however, drive circles around most other cars. My 2002C2 and my father's 2001 996TT couldn't hold a candle to it in terms of driving experience. It's not as comfortable nor practical as a modern car, but it suits me better - just as a 997 will suit other people better. I respect that - but just respect the fact that there is more to old Porsches than rarity or collectibility. No matter how powerful and firmly sprung, a 3,200 lb car will never have the subjective driving characteristics of a 1,900 lb car

    Re: C4 faster than C2

    Sorry if that last post was a bit self-serving. Didn't mean to turn the 997 board into my personal soap box (was in a bit of a mood yesterday). Enjoy the weekend

    Re: C4 faster than C2

    Not at all Grant, that car is sweeeet!!

    Re-read Walter Rorhl's quote!

    "that the C4S's time around the nurburgring is identical to the regular Carrera."

    So the C4S is as fast as a base 997 NOT as fast as a 997S...

    Re: C4 faster than C2

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Not at all Grant, that car is sweeeet!!


    Thanks, Carlos. I love your car too. I wish we lived closer, so we could share a ride

    Re: C4 faster than C2

    Quote:
    Grant said:I wish we lived closer, so we could share a ride



    Definately!!

    Re: Re-read Walter Rorhl's quote!

    Quote:
    Le Chef said:
    "that the C4S's time around the nurburgring is identical to the regular Carrera."

    So the C4S is as fast as a base 997 NOT as fast as a 997S...



    I'm led to believe that W. Rohrl was refering to the CarreraS in his original wording since the Carrera is 10-12 seconds slower than the CarreraS, I don't think the 997C4S is that much slower ... thats even twice as much difference than the 996C2 vs 996C4

     
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