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Re: 2004 GT2
Quote:
996cal said:
anyone know if there are any GT2's here in the U.S. out there that have the factory Carbon fiber rear wing exterior mirrior and front hood scoop or does this only come on Euros model Clubsport versions. Was this an option for U.S. model 996 GT2's.
Quote:
Les Quam said:
My understanding is that the option was available in North America. When I ordered my 04 GT2 I believe it was an option.
I am not aware of any 2004s for sale with that option and only 24 2004 GT2s were built so it may be difficult to find one.
this is standard on all MY2004 and MY2005 GT2s
the carbon fiber parts and the power hike are the reason the price went up.
Mar 25, 2005 9:32:14 PM
- Les Quam
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Re: 2004 GT2
Bob,
When I orderd my 04 GT2 I considered getting a black one because I thought that was the perfect color for the carbon fibre. Car looks great with the carbon in black.
We should consider developing a simple web page in the form of a registry to keep track of the 24 2004 GT2s?
Any interest?
When I orderd my 04 GT2 I considered getting a black one because I thought that was the perfect color for the carbon fibre. Car looks great with the carbon in black.
We should consider developing a simple web page in the form of a registry to keep track of the 24 2004 GT2s?
Any interest?
Mar 26, 2005 12:17:59 AM
- Marslandbob
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Mar 26, 2005 12:58:47 AM
- Les Quam
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Re: 2004 GT2
Bob,
What are your thoughts on a registry? I was thinking a couple of pages and we keep track of VINs and mileage if possible. We could use the www.flachbau.com website as sort of a guide. We would also discuss the differences between the 2002,2003 and 2004 GT2s???
A couple of us tried to do a registry for the 1997 Turbo S a year ago and one of the guys did a great couple of pages but everyone soon lost interest. I think one reason is that Porsche has a certificate of authenticity available to verify a cars history?
What are your thoughts on a registry? I was thinking a couple of pages and we keep track of VINs and mileage if possible. We could use the www.flachbau.com website as sort of a guide. We would also discuss the differences between the 2002,2003 and 2004 GT2s???
A couple of us tried to do a registry for the 1997 Turbo S a year ago and one of the guys did a great couple of pages but everyone soon lost interest. I think one reason is that Porsche has a certificate of authenticity available to verify a cars history?
Re: 2004 GT2
Not a stupid question at all because it was difficult to find a straight answer. When I ordered my 04 GT 2 it was the 17th one ordered. I ordered it in March of 04 and it arrived in June. In October of 04 I sent a written request to PCNA archives asking for a final number of 04 GT2s built for NA. In January of this year they responded that they didn't have that infromation. So I asked for help on three of the Porsche forums that I spend time on. One of them maybe even this one some one directed me to the Porsche site and press archives where the year end press release for model years 2002,2003,2004 indicated that Porsche delivered 184 2002 GT2s , 90 2003 GT2s and 24 2004 GT2s to North America. I don't remember if it contained ROW (rest of world)information for GT2s?
But over the years I have read a wide variety of different estimates on total GT2 production. I have learned to trust only written representations because of the widespread rumors.
For example in regard to the 1997 993 turbo S. Many people would argue that 182 were delivered to NA. But I have a letter from PCNA that states 176 were delivered so that is the number I use.
Even more interesting I think are 2005 GT2s. I ordered the 4th one and have been told only 5 will be built by my Porsche zone rep. The first three have already been delivered to NA dealers and they were all ordered in Carerra GT silver. I think a couple are still sitting at dealers. Mine will be in NA in about a week. But I think Porsche will still build one if someone were to try to order one. It will be interesting to see how many 05s will be built?
Perhaps we can try to learn how many 04 GT2s were built ROW?
But over the years I have read a wide variety of different estimates on total GT2 production. I have learned to trust only written representations because of the widespread rumors.
For example in regard to the 1997 993 turbo S. Many people would argue that 182 were delivered to NA. But I have a letter from PCNA that states 176 were delivered so that is the number I use.
Even more interesting I think are 2005 GT2s. I ordered the 4th one and have been told only 5 will be built by my Porsche zone rep. The first three have already been delivered to NA dealers and they were all ordered in Carerra GT silver. I think a couple are still sitting at dealers. Mine will be in NA in about a week. But I think Porsche will still build one if someone were to try to order one. It will be interesting to see how many 05s will be built?
Perhaps we can try to learn how many 04 GT2s were built ROW?
Re: 2004 GT2
Thanks- I'll see what I can find out. The topic is of interest to me because I just took delivery of an '05 Turbo S Coupe. Projections were that there would be 100 Coupes and 200 Cabs for NA, with 180 Coupes and 500 Cabs produced worldwide. However, YTD Porsche has made 58 Coupes total. In the past, I've tended to trade my Porsches for new ones, because I've never owned one that was rare/semi-rare (last one was '02 996TT). However, I think that if you has one of five or even 100 representations made, that the car should be kept indefinitely.
Re: 2004 GT2
I think the 05 turbo S coupe is going to be rare and desireable as well. Remember that EVERY car regardless of volume will go through a normal depreciation cycle so you need to be prepared to watch values drop than stablize then increase.My 1994 turbo S lost half it's value and some nice ones a few years ago were selling for 75K when the original MSRP was 160K. However they have now stopped depreciating and real nice ones are selling for around 115K. The 97 S turbo's are still depreciating and are good value's right now I think but eventually they will stablize.
Some of the most valuable cars right now such as Hemi superbirds and hemi chargers the dealers could not give away when new same goes for the 1965 and 66 Shelby mustangs.
It just takes a while for the cycle to end. And the best part of buying a car like your 05 turbo S coupe is that you know the paint and engine and everything is original. As opposed to down the road trying to research it's history.
I have several rare muscle cars and for every real one I have I had to sift through 100 fake or made up ones. And even the best restored muscle cars are only the equal in fit and finish to a new Porsche.
When Porsche is building in such low volume they in my opinion are creating classics and I find no reason to continue to search for old rare classics when I can be the original owner of a one of 24 GT2 or in your case one of 58 turbo S coupe. IMHO
Some of the most valuable cars right now such as Hemi superbirds and hemi chargers the dealers could not give away when new same goes for the 1965 and 66 Shelby mustangs.
It just takes a while for the cycle to end. And the best part of buying a car like your 05 turbo S coupe is that you know the paint and engine and everything is original. As opposed to down the road trying to research it's history.
I have several rare muscle cars and for every real one I have I had to sift through 100 fake or made up ones. And even the best restored muscle cars are only the equal in fit and finish to a new Porsche.
When Porsche is building in such low volume they in my opinion are creating classics and I find no reason to continue to search for old rare classics when I can be the original owner of a one of 24 GT2 or in your case one of 58 turbo S coupe. IMHO
Re: 2004 GT2
you can't compare the 97 turbo S to the 996 turbo S.
the 97 one is much more unique and desirable. it has special body modifications, a unique power rating, and less than 100 were built
the 05 turbo S has virtually nothing different from a normal turbo except the powerkit and ceramic brakes (all availible as an option). it has a the S badge and some minor cosmestic differentiations.
the 97 one is much more unique and desirable. it has special body modifications, a unique power rating, and less than 100 were built
the 05 turbo S has virtually nothing different from a normal turbo except the powerkit and ceramic brakes (all availible as an option). it has a the S badge and some minor cosmestic differentiations.
Mar 28, 2005 7:28:06 AM
- 03-turbo911
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Re: 2004 GT2
Quote:
Moogle said:
you can't compare the 97 turbo S to the 996 turbo S.
the 97 one is much more unique and desirable. it has special body modifications, a unique power rating, and less than 100 were built
the 05 turbo S has virtually nothing different from a normal turbo except the powerkit and ceramic brakes (all availible as an option). it has a the S badge and some minor cosmestic differentiations.
I do agree with Moogle that the 996 turbo S is not something unique and rare. The 993 turbo S, on the other hand, was something quite special and it's still is. If it happens then I'd really be surprised but I'm not holding my breath for the 996 turbo S to be anything of collector status.
Mar 28, 2005 8:51:08 AM
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Futch
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Re: 2004 GT2
Quote:
03-turbo911 said:
I do agree with Moogle that the 996 turbo S is not something unique and rare. The 993 turbo S, on the other hand, was something quite special and it's still is. If it happens then I'd really be surprised but I'm not holding my breath for the 996 turbo S to be anything of collector status.
I agree with both of you too.
The 996 Turbo S is a marketing spin off to pump 996 Turbo sales before it goes out of production.
It is a very interesting package because cheaper that what you would pay if you were to tick all the added options that the S version comes with but it will never have the collector status the 993 Turbo S has in 8 years time.
Re: 2004 GT2
I think we're losing something in communication. Given that CGTs depreciate, I think it's a given that any other Porsche, or any car for that matter will depreciate, especially if driven. IMHO it is stupid to buy these cars and not drive them. Cars such as Porsches are toys, and if they survive 25-50 years and remain original, they may become investments.
To me, the 996 Turbo S is a great value. I never expected to say that about a Porsche. My '02 Turbo stickered at $130K, and I paid $125K. My '05 Turbo S, even with a much weaker Dollar relative to Euro and a good deal more features and options, stickered at $139K, and I paid $132K. While my '02 was a great car, I'm amazed at the performance of my S in comparison. I have enough seat time and track time on motorcycles and in cars to appreciate this difference. As an added bonus, there aren't many of the S models being made- that the visual difference is nil doesn't bother me. I'm not a fan of big wings unless I own an F-16. I think it would be even cooler to have one of five '05 GT2s. Are the '05s Porsche's a milking of the model run? I don't think so- I'd look to the 6,000 or so '01 or '02 models in that regard, as I took the financial hit on my '02 and can testify to a diluted market.
To summarize, sports cars are toys and should be enjoyed without regard to resale unless one handles disappointment well. This is an expensive hobby and we're privileged to dabble in cars that most people could only dream of and we should be very thankful for this fact. A car's rarity, for whatever reason, IMHO makes it all the more desireable even if that doesn't translate immediately into dollars and cents.
Cheers,
AJ
To me, the 996 Turbo S is a great value. I never expected to say that about a Porsche. My '02 Turbo stickered at $130K, and I paid $125K. My '05 Turbo S, even with a much weaker Dollar relative to Euro and a good deal more features and options, stickered at $139K, and I paid $132K. While my '02 was a great car, I'm amazed at the performance of my S in comparison. I have enough seat time and track time on motorcycles and in cars to appreciate this difference. As an added bonus, there aren't many of the S models being made- that the visual difference is nil doesn't bother me. I'm not a fan of big wings unless I own an F-16. I think it would be even cooler to have one of five '05 GT2s. Are the '05s Porsche's a milking of the model run? I don't think so- I'd look to the 6,000 or so '01 or '02 models in that regard, as I took the financial hit on my '02 and can testify to a diluted market.
To summarize, sports cars are toys and should be enjoyed without regard to resale unless one handles disappointment well. This is an expensive hobby and we're privileged to dabble in cars that most people could only dream of and we should be very thankful for this fact. A car's rarity, for whatever reason, IMHO makes it all the more desireable even if that doesn't translate immediately into dollars and cents.
Cheers,
AJ
Re: 2004 GT2
I hope my post didn't come off as insulting the 996 TTS
thats not how i intended, in fact, i was about as close as you can get to buying one without buying it, if my dealer hadn't completely f*ed up my order, there would be a cab in my garage right now.
i think everyone agrees that the 996 Turbo S is a great value compared to earlier 996 turbos. however, the discussion is about the collectible value / rarity of it compared to the 993 version.
PS. AJ, the GT2s were made because people wanted them and ordered them, not for milking additional sales.
the same can't be said for the 996 TTS
thats not how i intended, in fact, i was about as close as you can get to buying one without buying it, if my dealer hadn't completely f*ed up my order, there would be a cab in my garage right now.
i think everyone agrees that the 996 Turbo S is a great value compared to earlier 996 turbos. however, the discussion is about the collectible value / rarity of it compared to the 993 version.
PS. AJ, the GT2s were made because people wanted them and ordered them, not for milking additional sales.
the same can't be said for the 996 TTS
Re: 2004 GT2
Speaking of collectibles, I'd really love a GT3RS. . .so tough to get here (or anywhere for that matter, but not legal here). Someone on another forum mentioned getting one into the US, so of course I asked how. Then again, rumor has it that the 997GT3 is gonna be a monster and it may be best to hold onto the cash and see what Porsche surprises us with.
Where you at in NYC? I did my residency there and loved living in Manhattan when I was young and single. Moved to D/FW after residency and a year as faculty attending and have been very happy here- with no mountains and no ocean, it ain't pretty, but the standard of living is a phenominal value. As a doc, the fact that HMOs aren't making it here helps as well.
Where you at in NYC? I did my residency there and loved living in Manhattan when I was young and single. Moved to D/FW after residency and a year as faculty attending and have been very happy here- with no mountains and no ocean, it ain't pretty, but the standard of living is a phenominal value. As a doc, the fact that HMOs aren't making it here helps as well.
Re: 2004 GT2
There were 176 1997 993 turbo S cars delivered to NA. According to a letter I have from PCNA. FYI
When a major manufacturer like Porsche which I estimate sells 75,000 cars a year world wide makes a limited run of only 58 or so 996 turbo S coupes for NA it is unquestionably a RARE car. I can't see how one could plausiby argue the car is not rare.
If in the future collectors deem it to be desireable then it will achieve a collector status and appreciate because it is rare AND desireable which is what brings the big bucks later.
In order to see how my appreciation concept works spend some time at the Barrett Jackson auction every January. Not only will you have an incredible time and a veritable automotive orgy they will let you and your buddies drink for free for 5 days just by signing up as a bidder for a cost of 350 dollars. We drank at least 2000 dollars worth of drinks and except for the irreversible liver damage had a great time and learned a lot.
The Pebble peach auctions at Laguna Seca every August move a lot of classic Porsche's and what brings top dollar is rarity,desireablity and HP. Which the 996 TT S coupe has all three in my opinion. A low mile unmolested one with a clear and traceable owner history will be worth IMHO over 200K in 20 years.
I believe in the very near future like in about 8 to 10 years when China is using in one day as much fuel oil as the entire world consumes now in one day that these high HP cars of all makes and models will be very valuable. IMHO the world is going to HAVE to abandon the fuel we use now as a source of energy to propel our cars due to China's astonishing growth and when we are all driving electric or hydrogen cars with 76 HP our high HP cars are going to be the last generations Dusenbergs and selling for incredible amounts of money.
Now you guys can start ripping into me on this forum and I will be long graveyard dead when my prediction comes true of liver disease from my annual trips to Barrett Jackson.But you guys just remember where you heard it first and make a toast to me when I am proven right.
When a major manufacturer like Porsche which I estimate sells 75,000 cars a year world wide makes a limited run of only 58 or so 996 turbo S coupes for NA it is unquestionably a RARE car. I can't see how one could plausiby argue the car is not rare.
If in the future collectors deem it to be desireable then it will achieve a collector status and appreciate because it is rare AND desireable which is what brings the big bucks later.
In order to see how my appreciation concept works spend some time at the Barrett Jackson auction every January. Not only will you have an incredible time and a veritable automotive orgy they will let you and your buddies drink for free for 5 days just by signing up as a bidder for a cost of 350 dollars. We drank at least 2000 dollars worth of drinks and except for the irreversible liver damage had a great time and learned a lot.
The Pebble peach auctions at Laguna Seca every August move a lot of classic Porsche's and what brings top dollar is rarity,desireablity and HP. Which the 996 TT S coupe has all three in my opinion. A low mile unmolested one with a clear and traceable owner history will be worth IMHO over 200K in 20 years.
I believe in the very near future like in about 8 to 10 years when China is using in one day as much fuel oil as the entire world consumes now in one day that these high HP cars of all makes and models will be very valuable. IMHO the world is going to HAVE to abandon the fuel we use now as a source of energy to propel our cars due to China's astonishing growth and when we are all driving electric or hydrogen cars with 76 HP our high HP cars are going to be the last generations Dusenbergs and selling for incredible amounts of money.
Now you guys can start ripping into me on this forum and I will be long graveyard dead when my prediction comes true of liver disease from my annual trips to Barrett Jackson.But you guys just remember where you heard it first and make a toast to me when I am proven right.
Mar 29, 2005 6:47:56 AM
- 03-turbo911
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Re: 2004 GT2
Les, I'd be VERY interested in going to the auction this upcoming January- I've put it on my to-do list to contact you in October about it. Regarding the future of fossil fuels, China's growing thirst for petrol and how all this impacts us, your predictions will probably come to fruition. Having spent some time in China (my wife is Chinese, we visit frequently, my practice is about 1/3 Chinese and this opens up some economic opportunities for me), the growth of the economy and in the affluence of the average person with some education or skills is exploding. After 50 years of deprivation, the people can't get their hands on gadgets fast enough. In fact, I read somewhere that the first customer-delivered Ferrari 360 was delivered in Shanghai. Even though China's government sucks, the people in charge are smart enough to allow economic growth, probably because poor, pissed-off Chinese people have a history of overthrowing governments and slaughtering their oppressors. Barring nuclear annihilation, China's growth is inevitable. The good news for people like me is that healthcare privatization is exploding in China and is a very good sector for investment- while we in the US work toward a national health plan, the people that have one and can opt out usually do. RC spent some time in China and I'm sure he has some thoughts on the implications of China's growth. Back onto topic, the good news is that manufacturers are trying to make high-performance hybrids- Toyota has a hybrid 400hp prototype. I do agree with you- todays finest cars will become anachronisms and may fetch high, high dollars in the future.
BTW Moogle- I didn't find your comments insulting, I just respectfully disagreed with some of the points that it seemed you made.
03-turbo, yep, if someone has to worry about the dollars and cents in the purchase of a toy, it is best to leave the toy on the shelf because if purchased, it will not be enjoyed. However, while I do see many folks stretching to buy new and used Boxsters and base 911s, the market for the GT3/Turbo/Turbo S/GT2 seems to attract (mostly) a pretty responsible crowd.
Cheers all, and have a great day!
BTW Moogle- I didn't find your comments insulting, I just respectfully disagreed with some of the points that it seemed you made.
03-turbo, yep, if someone has to worry about the dollars and cents in the purchase of a toy, it is best to leave the toy on the shelf because if purchased, it will not be enjoyed. However, while I do see many folks stretching to buy new and used Boxsters and base 911s, the market for the GT3/Turbo/Turbo S/GT2 seems to attract (mostly) a pretty responsible crowd.
Cheers all, and have a great day!
Re: 2004 GT2
917 driver my car is the Vegas car. Which means I think that the first three cars are Carerra GT silver the fourth is(mine) Artic ailver and the last one is black.
My question then is what is the source of your information that only five are being built for NA. And what area of the Porsche computer are you linking up with to obtain this information??
My question then is what is the source of your information that only five are being built for NA. And what area of the Porsche computer are you linking up with to obtain this information??
Re: 2004 GT2
Quote:
Les Quam said:Which the 996 TT S coupe has all three in my opinion. A low mile unmolested one with a clear and traceable owner history will be worth IMHO over 200K in 20 years.
52% (before sales tax, storage, annual insurance, and maintenance) is a pathetic return for 20 years, don't ya think?
Re: 2004 GT2
Quote:
watt said:
Lester, Lester, Lester,
let me leap in. you sound like old farte collecting watches. Drive car, f.ck collectible. eeezz bullsheet as my russian fryende say. you full of poo poo. gt2 great car drive sheet out, not save for 20 year
watt, some of les's returns on his muscle cars would make a man compounding at 25%/yr envious
Jul 20, 2005 11:56:04 PM
- cig1
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Re: 2004 GT2
Quote:
Marslandbob said:
Les, I think the registry is a great idea , let me know if I can help.On the topic of black cars I'm really boring - all my cars are black, once I got really wild and ordered a metalic black, call me mr excitement.
Has there been a registry setup for ALL year GT2's. If so, please direct me ... I would like to add my car to it (or update the info against my 2002 VIN#)
G
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