Crown

Hi guys,

what do you think of Lucid Air? I have placed a deposit on one. Yesterday I have seen it for the first time in Munich in their studio.

I like it, but I am not overwhelmed.

What is your opinion? Has anyone driven one?

I am looking for a new daily/business car. My use cases are: city driving from home to my office, driving to my customers (max 300 km and max once a week) mainly Stuttgart, Munich and Zürich. Sometime longer trips (every two month)  500/600 km to Austria Tirol or France Megeve.

All my other cars (MB S63 cab, McLaren 720, Porsche 911) are smaller or not customer/business friendly nor suitable for longer trips. The next car should be an exchange for my X7 M50i.

Other cars I am looking at:

- Tesla plaid - I do not like the interieur - would like to have more luxury cabin like MB or BMW

- BMW i7 - to large, nearly 5,5m - try to find in Zürich or Munich a parking slot

- BMX XM - ?? still only a concept and maybe not customer/business friendly

- Taycan CT turbo/turbo S - older tech and much smaller

AM

I have a 5 series, 530e, which is very business friendly, and you have a good engines choices in the 5 series. I choosed the electric sofas and I must say that is the most comfortable car I haver owned 
Of course the 5 is in a lower range than your list 

I found the lucid odd. Some of it was wonderful, some head scratching. Overall I liked it and it would be a great car for what you're looking at but in Canada the top end one is nearly $225k which is ludicrous IMHO. Goes like stink though. Feels like when you hit the turbo in a 935.

Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region

ALDO:

Hi guys,

what do you think of Lucid Air? I have placed a deposit on one. Yesterday I have seen it for the first time in Munich in their studio.

I like it, but I am not overwhelmed.

What is your opinion? Has anyone driven one?

I am looking for a new daily/business car. My use cases are: city driving from home to my office, driving to my customers (max 300 km and max once a week) mainly Stuttgart, Munich and Zürich. Sometime longer trips (every two month)  500/600 km to Austria Tirol or France Megeve.

All my other cars (MB S63 cab, McLaren 720, Porsche 911) are smaller or not customer/business friendly nor suitable for longer trips. The next car should be an exchange for my X7 M50i.

Other cars I am looking at:

- Tesla plaid - I do not like the interieur - would like to have more luxury cabin like MB or BMW

- BMW i7 - to large, nearly 5,5m - try to find in Zürich or Munich a parking slot

- BMX XM - ?? still only a concept and maybe not customer/business friendly

- Taycan CT turbo/turbo S - older tech and much smaller

Guess what - I’m partial to the Plaid.  Of course the interior is the part I like the best. It hides the fact that it does 100’s of things no other car does. Leaves the Taycan Turbo s the dust and ANYTHING else.  Have my order in to replace the Model3 which is almost at 40 k miles.  Lost zero value on that car which is what I am most looking forward to with the Plaid.  Last I heard the Lucid did not even have the adaptive cruise control code working. 
Seats in the Plaid are superb. 

ALDO:

Hi guys,

what do you think of Lucid Air? I have placed a deposit on one. Yesterday I have seen it for the first time in Munich in their studio.

I like it, but I am not overwhelmed.

What is your opinion? Has anyone driven one?

I am looking for a new daily/business car. My use cases are: city driving from home to my office, driving to my customers (max 300 km and max once a week) mainly Stuttgart, Munich and Zürich. Sometime longer trips (every two month)  500/600 km to Austria Tirol or France Megeve.

All my other cars (MB S63 cab, McLaren 720, Porsche 911) are smaller or not customer/business friendly nor suitable for longer trips. The next car should be an exchange for my X7 M50i.

Other cars I am looking at:

- Tesla plaid - I do not like the interieur - would like to have more luxury cabin like MB or BMW

- BMW i7 - to large, nearly 5,5m - try to find in Zürich or Munich a parking slot

- BMX XM - ?? still only a concept and maybe not customer/business friendly

- Taycan CT turbo/turbo S - older tech and much smaller

I would put it as a step up version of the Model S plaid. More luxurious and with more range. It will easily cover your round trip to your customers on one charge.

Seeing how Teslas are still badly made, even after like a decade, I wouldn't put much hope for build quality or reliability for the Lucid. New start up teething problem, they are literally walking on Tesla's footsteps. 

A EQS would be even more luxurious. The BMW iX could be an alternative if you are considering BMW, but still not sure about the styling 9 months later. But it would seems BMW's strategy would be to make their EV offerings the same as their normal car, so one doesn't have to choose a weird design just to get on the EV side. Their new 7 series showed that they can, not saying it look nice, and they have just announced the new X1 is following the same path. I can see the 5 series, and other product line from BMW doing the same. 

Guessing you want electric? Or at least hybrid to take advantage of government subsidies?

Honestly, for your needs, nothing still trumps a Panamera, even when it is sort of old now and due for a replacement. 

Mithras:

I found the lucid odd. Some of it was wonderful, some head scratching. Overall I liked it and it would be a great car for what you're looking at but in Canada the top end one is nearly $225k which is ludicrous IMHO. Goes like stink though. Feels like when you hit the turbo in a 935.

Here it is 218.000 € - so even more expensive 

AM

Leawood911:

ALDO:

Hi guys,

what do you think of Lucid Air? I have placed a deposit on one. Yesterday I have seen it for the first time in Munich in their studio.

I like it, but I am not overwhelmed.

What is your opinion? Has anyone driven one?

I am looking for a new daily/business car. My use cases are: city driving from home to my office, driving to my customers (max 300 km and max once a week) mainly Stuttgart, Munich and Zürich. Sometime longer trips (every two month)  500/600 km to Austria Tirol or France Megeve.

All my other cars (MB S63 cab, McLaren 720, Porsche 911) are smaller or not customer/business friendly nor suitable for longer trips. The next car should be an exchange for my X7 M50i.

Other cars I am looking at:

- Tesla plaid - I do not like the interieur - would like to have more luxury cabin like MB or BMW

- BMW i7 - to large, nearly 5,5m - try to find in Zürich or Munich a parking slot

- BMX XM - ?? still only a concept and maybe not customer/business friendly

- Taycan CT turbo/turbo S - older tech and much smaller

Guess what - I’m partial to the Plaid.  Of course the interior is the part I like the best. It hides the fact that it does 100’s of things no other car does. Leaves the Taycan Turbo s the dust and ANYTHING else.  Have my order in to replace the Model3 which is almost at 40 k miles.  Lost zero value on that car which is what I am most looking forward to with the Plaid.  Last I heard the Lucid did not even have the adaptive cruise control code working. 
Seats in the Plaid are superb. 

Now you surprised me 

I did not check the resale value here in Germany, but I doubt that the Model 3 is here so high priced. Maybe other has more experience.

Tesla S has continously been optimized and have got a nice facelift recently. But it is still the car from 2012. 10 years old. 10 years the same design, structure, .... And to be worse there is no new Model S to be seen in the distant future. The delivery pipeline has some other promissed stuff still not deliverd - roadster, cybertruck, ...

AM

Whoopsy:

ALDO:

Hi guys,

what do you think of Lucid Air? I have placed a deposit on one. Yesterday I have seen it for the first time in Munich in their studio.

I like it, but I am not overwhelmed.

What is your opinion? Has anyone driven one?

I am looking for a new daily/business car. My use cases are: city driving from home to my office, driving to my customers (max 300 km and max once a week) mainly Stuttgart, Munich and Zürich. Sometime longer trips (every two month)  500/600 km to Austria Tirol or France Megeve.

All my other cars (MB S63 cab, McLaren 720, Porsche 911) are smaller or not customer/business friendly nor suitable for longer trips. The next car should be an exchange for my X7 M50i.

Other cars I am looking at:

- Tesla plaid - I do not like the interieur - would like to have more luxury cabin like MB or BMW

- BMW i7 - to large, nearly 5,5m - try to find in Zürich or Munich a parking slot

- BMX XM - ?? still only a concept and maybe not customer/business friendly

- Taycan CT turbo/turbo S - older tech and much smaller

 

I would put it as a step up version of the Model S plaid. More luxurious and with more range. It will easily cover your round trip to your customers on one charge.

Seeing how Teslas are still badly made, even after like a decade, I wouldn't put much hope for build quality or reliability for the Lucid. New start up teething problem, they are literally walking on Tesla's footsteps. 

A EQS would be even more luxurious. The BMW iX could be an alternative if you are considering BMW, but still not sure about the styling 9 months later. But it would seems BMW's strategy would be to make their EV offerings the same as their normal car, so one doesn't have to choose a weird design just to get on the EV side. Their new 7 series showed that they can, not saying it look nice, and they have just announced the new X1 is following the same path. I can see the 5 series, and other product line from BMW doing the same. 

Guessing you want electric? Or at least hybrid to take advantage of government subsidies?

Honestly, for your needs, nothing still trumps a Panamera, even when it is sort of old now and due for a replacement. 

We don't get any government subsidies for such expensive cars.

The reason why electric is that it feels so sublime when driving. For that reason I do not want a sporty EV rather luxury where you can enjoy listing to music and relax. Yes, the MB EQS could be an alternative or even the i7. Both cars a larger outside and smaller inside. i7 is maybe larger inside. 

If going for a hybrid, then it should have a distance of at least real 80 km per charge. On the other hand hybrid is a stupid in between technology - carrying either a battery and electric motor you do not need or carrying combustion  engine and gasoline you do not need and then the expensive technology to put these two worlds running smoothly together.

AM

Mercedes EQS could be an alternative

Maybe you should listen to the Tesla sound system…. And no, the body and structure- everything is new and cutting edge. Build quality is excellent for the most part and the tech is next level.  Performance is outstanding.  To me it seems a simple choice given th many teething issues others are dealing with. Look at the entire package. 
Want the worst of both worlds then get a hybrid. 

I placed a deposit for the Lucid Air "Grand Touring" trim level almost 2 years ago.  It seemed really cool.  The 2020 Amelia Island concours d'elegance afforded my wife and I a good look at prototypes and an opportunity to greet old acquaintances from Tesla's early days who were founding executives at Lucid Motors.  The only stumbling block was the metallic film solar blocking technology they chose and the lack of a radar-friendly "cutout" in the film.  They and I went around and around about it being a deal killer.  I decided to wait until something changed.

Recently, I was contacted by Lucid to inform me that they had changed solar rejection technology to a ceramic layer in the "canopy" (windshield) glass that they expected to be more friendly to radar detectors and toll transponders.  The ceramic-layer glass was brand new and was only available to demo in Morristown, NJ where Lucid had just stood up a new "studio" location and furnished it with the very latest version demo cars.  So, I flew out to NJ to see/test it in person.

I took a USB-powered millimeter wave signal source and a V1G2 with me for the test drive.  The new ceramic-layered windshield/canopy glass was found to not affect radar signals at all ... a big win for my use case.

The Lucid Air drove very well, but did not feel anywhere near as connected to the road as my Taycan Turbo.  It was more comfortable over bumps in the comfort suspension setting than my Taycan, but not dramatically so.  It was similar in feel to a Mercedes S 580 I had driven a month ago. The Lucid seemed quieter than my Taycan. 

The telematics seemed not fully developed because there was no built-in SDARS (SiriusXM) receiver, although one is on the way at an unspecified future date (free retrofit?).  The Lucid telematics were a particular point of interest because 2020 Taycans are a complete disaster in terms of buggy behavior and extremely disappointing future prospects for resolution of known issues.  The Taycan bugs seem permanent without prospect of a fix for already produced cars.  The current Lucid Air telematics did not inspire as much emotional relief from Taycan irritations as I had hoped, although it did have AM radio reception which neither Taycans nor Teslas do.

Coming from a succession of Panamera Turbos, the Taycan's cargo capacity and ease of cargo ingress/egress is disappointing and I had hoped that the Lucid Air's cargo/luggage capacity would be a win over the Taycan.  Upon inspection, the Lucid boot opening is indeed wider and the interior space is deeper than my Taycan.  However it is more shallow.  The Taycan boot space measures 17.5 inches in height while the Air was 16 inches maximum and only 14 inches in some places.  I measured a few of the boxes I regularly transport from office to home (wine club shipments that need an adult signature) and found they were 16 inches in height which would be an interference fit in the Lucid boot space, even though it is a zero lift over design.  Major fail for my use case and completely unexpected.

Regarding performance, the 800+ hp Lucid felt about the same as my Taycan Turbo from rest.  All high-end electric cars perform major hole shots against any road-registered stop light competition.  I could feel any difference.

The Lucid is configured for 1-pedal driving just like Tesla.  The friction brakes are completely independent of the go-pedal's actions.  Tesla lovers rave about this characteristic and I can adapt to it easily.  I find I prefer the Taycan layout where the long/thin pedal on the right is go and the short/wide pedal to the left is slow down.  In fact, I greatly prefer the Taycan braking solution.  It provides me with a more delicate/precision feel in higher-g maneuvers where in a lift-"throttle" slowing system, the g-forces on one's right leg/foot tend to complicate or counteract my intentions.

As a result of all of the above, I have decided to pass on this evolutionary stage of the Lucid Air and have ordered a 2023 Taycan GTS Sport Tourismo.  It will have better cargo ingress/egress than my current Taycan, although not by a huge amount.  By all Taycanforum reports, a late-2022 or 2023 Taycan has "normal" instead of "infuriating" telematics.  I'm hoping for the best.

Mike

918 Spyder + Taycan Turbo + Tesla Roadster 1.5 & Model S P100D AP2 + BMWs (Z8 + 3.0 CSi) + Bentley Arnage T

W8MM:

I placed a deposit for the Lucid Air "Grand Touring" trim level almost 2 years ago.  It seemed really cool.  The 2020 Amelia Island concours d'elegance afforded my wife and I a good look at prototypes and an opportunity to greet old acquaintances from Tesla's early days who were founding executives at Lucid Motors.  The only stumbling block was the metallic film solar blocking technology they chose and the lack of a radar-friendly "cutout" in the film.  They and I went around and around about it being a deal killer.  I decided to wait until something changed.

Recently, I was contacted by Lucid to inform me that they had changed solar rejection technology to a ceramic layer in the "canopy" (windshield) glass that they expected to be more friendly to radar detectors and toll transponders.  The ceramic-layer glass was brand new and was only available to demo in Morristown, NJ where Lucid had just stood up a new "studio" location and furnished it with the very latest version demo cars.  So, I flew out to NJ to see/test it in person.

I took a USB-powered millimeter wave signal source and a V1G2 with me for the test drive.  The new ceramic-layered windshield/canopy glass was found to not affect radar signals at all ... a big win for my use case.

The Lucid Air drove very well, but did not feel anywhere near as connected to the road as my Taycan Turbo.  It was more comfortable over bumps in the comfort suspension setting than my Taycan, but not dramatically so.  It was similar in feel to a Mercedes S 580 I had driven a month ago. The Lucid seemed quieter than my Taycan. 

The telematics seemed not fully developed because there was no built-in SDARS (SiriusXM) receiver, although one is on the way at an unspecified future date (free retrofit?).  The Lucid telematics were a particular point of interest because 2020 Taycans are a complete disaster in terms of buggy behavior and extremely disappointing future prospects for resolution of known issues.  The Taycan bugs seem permanent without prospect of a fix for already produced cars.  The current Lucid Air telematics did not inspire as much emotional relief from Taycan irritations as I had hoped, although it did have AM radio reception which neither Taycans nor Teslas do.

Coming from a succession of Panamera Turbos, the Taycan's cargo capacity and ease of cargo ingress/egress is disappointing and I had hoped that the Lucid Air's cargo/luggage capacity would be a win over the Taycan.  Upon inspection, the Lucid boot opening is indeed wider and the interior space is deeper than my Taycan.  However it is more shallow.  The Taycan boot space measures 17.5 inches in height while the Air was 16 inches maximum and only 14 inches in some places.  I measured a few of the boxes I regularly transport from office to home (wine club shipments that need an adult signature) and found they were 16 inches in height which would be an interference fit in the Lucid boot space, even though it is a zero lift over design.  Major fail for my use case and completely unexpected.

Regarding performance, the 800+ hp Lucid felt about the same as my Taycan Turbo from rest.  All high-end electric cars perform major hole shots against any road-registered stop light competition.  I could feel any difference.

The Lucid is configured for 1-pedal driving just like Tesla.  The friction brakes are completely independent of the go-pedal's actions.  Tesla lovers rave about this characteristic and I can adapt to it easily.  I find I prefer the Taycan layout where the long/thin pedal on the right is go and the short/wide pedal to the left is slow down.  In fact, I greatly prefer the Taycan braking solution.  It provides me with a more delicate/precision feel in higher-g maneuvers where in a lift-"throttle" slowing system, the g-forces on one's right leg/foot tend to complicate or counteract my intentions.

As a result of all of the above, I have decided to pass on this evolutionary stage of the Lucid Air and have ordered a 2023 Taycan GTS Sport Tourismo.  It will have better cargo ingress/egress than my current Taycan, although not by a huge amount.  By all Taycanforum reports, a late-2022 or 2023 Taycan has "normal" instead of "infuriating" telematics.  I'm hoping for the best.

Mike, thanks for the detailed report.

Funny, that your first point is the radar detection device. I never have used this here in Europe, I use a radar app, which is community based.

The rear trunk is something I do not understand. Why didn't they implement a hatchback. Then you can easily in/engress stuff inside the trunk. 

I suppose that Lucid should be somewhere inbetween Taycan and EQS in comfort. That's fine for me. For twisted roads I have other more connected vehicles.

The screen in Lucid is 5k and very fast, I have heard that Taycan has some problems with their refresh rates. No Netflix or Youtube possible in Taycan due to slow response screen technology.

The sound in Lucid is the best I have ever heard. First car with Dolby Atmos. Do not know have far Tesla is, this should also be one of the best in market.

AM

Leawood911:

Maybe you should listen to the Tesla sound system…. And no, the body and structure- everything is new and cutting edge. Build quality is excellent for the most part and the tech is next level.  Performance is outstanding.  To me it seems a simple choice given th many teething issues others are dealing with. Look at the entire package. 
Want the worst of both worlds then get a hybrid. 

Tesla S plaid is also nearly 80.000 € cheaper. Lucid will be 218.000 €. I think that plaid will be around 140.000 €.

But the design is 10 years old with small adjustments over the last years. 10 years are 10 years!

AM

ALDO:

The sound in Lucid is the best I have ever heard. First car with Dolby Atmos. Do not know have far Tesla is, this should also be one of the best in market.

Have you experienced the Burmester system in a Taycan or Panamera?  They are as good as my JBL stuff at home.

Mike

918 Spyder + 992 GT3 Touring + Taycan Turbo + Tesla Roadster 1.5 & Model S P100D AP2 + BMWs (Z8 + 3.0 CSi) + Bentley Arnage T

Stunning performance.

Lucid Motors lost six senior executives over the past couple of weeks.  Contrary to what has appeared in some to the EV/Tesla blogs, this a critical loss for this young company.  One of the former executives, Peter Hochholdinger, was originally from Audi where he successfully set up the Audi manufacturing facility in Mexico.  It’s an arduous task to set up a new manufacturing facility along with a brand new vehicle design, but he did achieve it.  He then moved to Tesla before joining the group that founded Lucid.  

https://www.businessinsider.com/executives-leave-lucid-electric-vehicle-startup-fight-ramp-production-2022-9

Here is basically a honest review of the Lucid Air, by a non car journalist. World class car with world class bad software.

The highlight of the video is that putting all the 'car stuff' in the hands of software control was a fail, is a fail, will always be a fail. This trend started by Tesla is not sustainable. Heck, even Tesla, the king of car software, still struggle to even put the simple Apple CarPlay in their cars after like 8 years. Software car piloting? Another failure as it's in forever beta land. Lucid, with ex-Tesla people there, is on the same failure path.

My Mach E had such a moment, the central screen crashed and went blacked out, at least I still got physical controls for most stuff. Had to Google to see how to hard reset the screen to get it to boot back up. 

Heck, even Porsche is facing delay on their EV Macan/Cayman/Boxster due to software issues. 

A simple, physical hard reset switch, is sorely needed in modern cars with so much stuff being controlled by software. Or, alternatively, stop relying on software so much. Bulletproof coding does not exist, no matter how much 'testing' there was, there will be combinations of inputs that the programmers did not foresee and crash the whole thing. Ask Microsoft, they have been coding Windows for over 30 years, it still crashes. 

Time to head into the cabin in the woods - software is evil!

Pretty certain Apple car play is child’s play to implement by car companies- if they want to and can’t master music software.  
I totally fail to see any connection between everyone struggling with software other than Tesla and it still being somehow an issue for Tesla.  Not having Apple Car play is somehow a sign of weakness with software?  Have you listened to music in a Tesla or are you aware of all the different sources it supports including HD music and any internet browsing. Netflix, YouTube, Hulu etc. Is that an Apple Car play thing?   It is about protecting his software eco system. and not paying extra money to Apple.  Simple for me to see all the benefits in that and certainly not an indication of failure. 

FYI. There are two ways to reset the software in a Tesla. One you can even do when driving.  Mine has never required a  reset after all these years with the car being continually improved. Few of the updates are to correct mistakes, they add features and functionality I never even considered when buying the car. For free. If I made a list here it would not be appreciated so I won’t. 
Of course some updates were to fix bugs but I can’t recall any bugs I noticed or in any way limited functionality. 
I hear what others and you are saying about the software in other cars but as a software developer and Tesla owner I can’t agree with the notion that all car software is somehow incapable because of a few bad apples.  We used to argue manual over automatics which kinda made sense (until pushing buttons became manual shifting). To argue we need to remove software and related functions because some simply don’t get it is a bit whacky. You will end up talking yourself into riding a bicycle waiting for others to get software working properly.

Should I just delete my post since I mentioned Tesla in a Lucid thread?  Nah, I think you guys can handle it  especially since Whoopsy just trashed the software of all the other electric cars ( thanks, if I do that it does not go well )  

ps - I love how the Lucid software is somehow bad because a bunch of EX Tesla employees work there - that was the funniest comment slipped in to the conversation.  I guess that one ‘triggered’ me.  At 4 am what else is there for me to do? 
I did see a Lucid the other day in the wild and it was moving and stuff so I guess it is okay.  It looked good in person.  Lots of Rivian trucks in town here - this is F-150 country.

You really do have a comprehension problem.

I never said Lucid's software is bad because there are ex-tesla employees.

They are ex-Tesla employees, so the focus will be a software driven car, but their software is not even close to release grade, at least Tesla's is. 

The problem is current crop of cars are heavily software driven, which is a bad thing. Why make things more complicated than they ought to be? My 94 and 95 Porsche just starts and be ready right there, nothing to boot up. 

You should have known me by now, I don't discriminate, if something is bad, no matter from whom, I will still say it. BE it Porsche or Tesla or BMW or Audi or Lucid or whatever.

And what's wrong with a simple switch doing simply functions? It works. Why complicate it by burying the needed function in endless menus on the touchscreen that may or may not boot up? Moving stuff and functions to touchscreen and driven by software is just a vanity thing, it adds nothing to the value.

Oh, the Rivian plant is actually not too far from you. I drove by it. 

Still sad you did not drive by here. Would have been fun. 
Respectfully disagree about your old porsche not needing software. Starting in 1984 Bosch Motronic was added and from that point on things got ‘complicated’.  All in all software has had a remarkable impact on all parts of driving from safety to economy to entertainment and navigation. 
You have stated in the past that programming is simple and no big deal. Perhaps it is just not that easy for some. 

my reading comprehension is perfectly fine. Life is way too short to go there.